I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
no matter where you are.
I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
to the other?
I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
Here's what I want:
*I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
without losing connection. Theoretically, I should be able to put
start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
other end of the store, and the download never quit.
*For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
Dagwood Bumstead wrote:
> I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
> no matter where you are.
>
> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
> to the other?
>
> I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
>
> Here's what I want:
>
> *I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
> without losing connection. Theoretically, I should be able to put
> start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
> other end of the store, and the download never quit.
>
> *For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
> security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
> separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
Don't assume, while better/more expensive will work too, no reason the
cheaper consumer grade stuff won't.... (have 5 consumer grade waps here
((linksys)) and use it with my pda ((Dell axim xv51)) as I walk around)
As for seamless roaming, remember, you can ONLY provide the stuff to do it
at high speed, how the people have their settings control if they can use
the high speed or not...
For example, same ssid but different channels, means you provide the ability
to seemlesly roam/use high speed at any/all points, BUT many clients (or
settings) will force sticking with the one you first connect to, even as you
move away and it slows down/signal gets worse (it won't automagically switch
until it loses the signal altogether, unless the person says in their
settings to only connect at this speed, and you can't control how others are
gonna set their settings)....
What you want is certianly easily doable, (you say " I want to be able to go
from one end of the store to the other without losing connection".. easily
doable for you, cuz you can control your own settings)
"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com...
> I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
> no matter where you are.
>
> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
> to the other?
Are you certain that one AP, placed on the inside corner of the L but in
sight of both wings, won't cover both adequately?
>"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
>news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com.. .
>> I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
>> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
>> no matter where you are.
>>
>> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
>> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
>> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
>> to the other?
>
>Are you certain that one AP, placed on the inside corner of the L but in
>sight of both wings, won't cover both adequately?
>
"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com...
>I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
> no matter where you are.
>
> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
> to the other?
>
> I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
>
> Here's what I want:
>
> *I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
> without losing connection. Theoretically, I should be able to put
> start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
> other end of the store, and the download never quit.
>
> *For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
> security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
> separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
--
Your assumption re. multiple WAPs is incorrect. That is, in fact, the most
common approach we use in small office buildings (for example). The use of
multiple WAPs in this way is called "wireless roaming." If configured
correctly it's transparent to the user. Proper configuration is to use the
same SSID on each and a different channel (among the 3 discrete choices of
1,6, or 11), and identical encryption settings and passcodes. It's best,
though not absolutely necessary, to use identical units.
Its a good thing I posted the question; I'm thinking I'm going to be
able save a couple $...
In wireless roaming, what happens if two similarly SSID'ed and
Channel'ed WAPs overlap?
Big question here: what about range extenders? One of the reasons for
wireless is the inconvenience of wiring out the entire building. Would
range extenders, where we would only have to get power to them (which
is already there) provide a reasonable solution? I wouldn't have to
range extend the whole way... I could put WAPs at either end and in
the middle, and then use range extenders to fill in, if that is valid
solution.
Would you do G or N?
Lastly, do you know of any inexpensive products that might provide
some central management to these devices?
Thanks so much.
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:06:44 -0400, "GTS" <x@y.com> wrote:
>
>"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
>news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com.. .
>>I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
>> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
>> no matter where you are.
>>
>> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
>> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
>> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
>> to the other?
>>
>> I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
>>
>> Here's what I want:
>>
>> *I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
>> without losing connection. Theoretically, I should be able to put
>> start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
>> other end of the store, and the download never quit.
>>
>> *For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
>> security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
>> separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
>>
>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks.
I don't see (yet) why one AP placed in the corner up high would not
work. It depends on line of sight. If somebody is behind a metal
shelf or stack of cans, they may be effectively shielded from the
signal.
I would consider getting one AP and trying it in the corner first.
From there, if it did not work, then putting one on each end of the
leg would fill it in?
For an interior corner installation, the new Ubiquiti Nano APs with
integrated antenna look very good and low price. Comes with POE.
Just run your ethernet cable to it from the router and you are set.
If you have a high enough ceiling, then ceiling mounted omni antennas
attached by short coax to their own APs might do the trick.
>On Wed, 17 Sep 2008 22:30:43 -0700, "D. Stussy"
><spam@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
>
>>"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
>>news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com. ..
>>> I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
>>> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
>>> no matter where you are.
>>>
>>> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
>>> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
>>> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
>>> to the other?
>>
>>Are you certain that one AP, placed on the inside corner of the L but in
>>sight of both wings, won't cover both adequately?
>>
>No, but it seems unlikely to me... I'm not real familiar with signal
>capabilities, but to go 250' through food aisles?
If the width of each leg of the "L" shape layout is 75' then mounting
a single AP at the "inside corner" of the "L" implies that the
distance to the end of each leg of the store has been decreased by 75'
making the maximum distance the AP needs to cover either (180-75) 105'
or (250-75) 175'.
Actually the Max. distance would be ~190' to the far corner of the
longer leg.
Mount it as high as you can at the inside corner of the "L" & maybe
18-24" from the walls or ceiling if possible & see what it does.
Make sure it has a clear "sight" down both legs of the interior
spaces.
Its a cheap & easy test & you can get an idea how well the signal gets
down into the aisles.
If you have very low ceilings it may not work well.
>
>Its a good thing I posted the question; I'm thinking I'm going to be
>able save a couple $...
>
>In wireless roaming, what happens if two similarly SSID'ed and
>Channel'ed WAPs overlap?
best to put them on different channels to cut down interference.
preferred almost non overlapping channels are 1, 6, 11.
if you need more channels then re-use channels where the signals are
masked from each other - in your case on different "legs" of the L.
The client has to choose 1 to "associate" with - most trouble with
multi WAP setups is that some clients dont seem to roam well (or at
all).
>
>Big question here: what about range extenders? One of the reasons for
>wireless is the inconvenience of wiring out the entire building. Would
>range extenders, where we would only have to get power to them (which
>is already there) provide a reasonable solution? I wouldn't have to
>range extend the whole way... I could put WAPs at either end and in
>the middle, and then use range extenders to fill in, if that is valid
>solution.
they sort of work, but the compromises can be a lot of hassle.
range extenders store and forward packets over the air, so doubling
the traffic.
They also cause trouble when some devices are masked from each other.
you may find WAPs which are fed via power line networking useful as an
alternative - but i havent used these in anger yet.
>
>Would you do G or N?
N seems to be work in progress, so unless you really need all that
bandwidth, G is a stable standard.
Mimo devices may help since you will have lots of reflections if you
have metal shelves etc.
>
>Lastly, do you know of any inexpensive products that might provide
>some central management to these devices?
system managment, reliable, consumer and low cost seem to be mutually
exclusive :)
>
>Thanks so much.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:06:44 -0400, "GTS" <x@y.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
>>news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com. ..
>>>I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
>>> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
>>> no matter where you are.
>>>
>>> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
>>> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
>>> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
>>> to the other?
>>>
>>> I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
>>>
>>> Here's what I want:
>>>
>>> *I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
>>> without losing connection. Theoretically, I should be able to put
>>> start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
>>> other end of the store, and the download never quit.
>>>
>>> *For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
>>> security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
>>> separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
--
Regards
"seaweedsl" <seaweedsteve@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:66870d28-c3dd-42ef-a68e-2a5eeec08338@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> I don't see (yet) why one AP placed in the corner up high would not
> work. It depends on line of sight. If somebody is behind a metal
> shelf or stack of cans, they may be effectively shielded from the
> signal.
>
> I would consider getting one AP and trying it in the corner first.
> From there, if it did not work, then putting one on each end of the
> leg would fill it in?
If one in the corner of the L doesn't work, the next solution would be to
have one at the midpoint of the shorter leg of the L and another in the
other leg near but offset from the midpoint of the longer leg. Three in
total may not be necessary.
"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
news:d705d45o9fg8kki02h93quedof9c55tso1@4ax.com...
>
> Its a good thing I posted the question; I'm thinking I'm going to be
> able save a couple $...
>
> In wireless roaming, what happens if two similarly SSID'ed and
> Channel'ed WAPs overlap?
>
The SSIDs will either be the same or different. I'm not sure what you're
asking re. 'similar.' For real transparent roaming such that if you were
walking around with a laptop so the connection would be consistently be
maintained, they need to be identical.
I'm not sure how roaming would be effected if set to the same channel.
Never saw a reason to try it since setting 2 discrete channels is the proper
configuration.
From your description it seems like two WAPs should certainly be sufficient.
I agree with the other poster that one in the central point might do the job
and is worth trying. If it doesn't one near the center in each leg of the L
should be plenty adequate.
> Big question here: what about range extenders? One of the reasons for
> wireless is the inconvenience of wiring out the entire building. Would
> range extenders, where we would only have to get power to them (which
> is already there) provide a reasonable solution? I wouldn't have to
> range extend the whole way... I could put WAPs at either end and in
> the middle, and then use range extenders to fill in, if that is valid
> solution.
>
I'm not a big fan of range extenders unless it's just out of the question to
run a cable to a WAP. They halve the speed and tend (in my experience) to
be somewhat unreliable.
> Would you do G or N?
>
There are a lot of good deals on G hardware and not too many laptops out
there equipped with N yet. On the other hand, the 11N equipment may have a
better range and throughput even when used by G workstations. In other
words, there's no clear cut answer right now.
> Lastly, do you know of any inexpensive products that might provide
> some central management to these devices?
>
I don't know of any economical central management solution that would make
sense for only a couple of WAPs. Managed devices are quite expensive and
generally used in larger premises with multiple floors and many units. Once
the WAPs are initially confirmed, there's really not much management needed.
(By the way, I prefer to set static IP addresses for the WAPs, a different
one for each of course, outside the DHCP range of your router. This makes
them easy to access for configuration/management purposes..)
> Thanks so much.
You're welcome.
---
>
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:06:44 -0400, "GTS" <x@y.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dagwood Bumstead" <dbumstead@jcdithers.com> wrote in message
>>news:qp73d4puajiqa1ibikoi8aguqfiji3lde1@4ax.com. ..
>>>I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
>>> and about 75' wide. Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
>>> no matter where you are.
>>>
>>> I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
>>> say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
>>> overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
>>> to the other?
>>>
>>> I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
>>>
>>> Here's what I want:
>>>
>>> *I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
>>> without losing connection. Theoretically, I should be able to put
>>> start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
>>> other end of the store, and the download never quit.
>>>
>>> *For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
>>> security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
>>> separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>I have an L shaped grocery store with legs about 180' and 250' long,
>and about 75' wide.
How high is the ceiling? If there's a suspended ceiling, is there
space above it for antennas?
>Wanting to have wireless blanket the entire store,
>no matter where you are.
I noticed that the local Safeway market had wireiess. I asked some
discrete questions and did some surrepetitous sniffing, and found that
there were only 2 wireless access points for what I guess was a 50,000
sq ft store. There may have been a 3rd access point in the storage
and loading areas where I didn't have access.
So, how do they do they remain connected with so few access points?
The answer is, they don't. The handheld data collectors buffer the
data and try to connect to any available access point. If they're in
a dead spot, they simply store the data until they can get
connectivity. Eventually, the user wanders into range of an access
point, and the handheld dumps its stored data.
>I assume that spreading out multiple consumer type WAPs (like Linksys,
>say) wouldn't work for what I want. What happens if standard WAPs
>overlap their coverage? Can you get automatically passed off from one
>to the other?
Search this newsgroup for warehouse wi-fi systems.
<http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=warehouse&num=30&as_ugroup=alt.interne t.wireless&as_uauthors=Jeff+Liebermann>
Basically, you work with what you have. Most system vendors have
found that it's impossible to maintain full time connectivity in a
combination of highly absorptive and highly reflective environment.
They tend to impliment various "seamless roaming" schemes, or just
buffer the data as in the Safeway example. The bit gotcha is that
many applications fail to appreciate users constantly connecting or
disconnecting from the network. They usually force a logout. Some
require re-authentication.
Methinks your first task is to figure out how the system is going to
be used and whether it will tolerate such erratic connections. If
not, you'll find yourself stuffing multiple access points with
directional antennas pointing down the isles. I sorta detailed that
in:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/browse_thread/thread/844db46c6a8e3aa5/1c087db9e3ad370f>
If the ceiling is *LOW* enough, you might consider leaky coax:
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.internet.wireless/msg/8538ea27b09f4afb?hl=en>
>I was looking at mesh, but then saw references here to it "sucking".
That was me. Mesh sucks in most applications. It's primary use is
where you can't easily setup a backhaul to the wired network. That's
NOT the situation in your market. You can run wires all over the
place.
>Here's what I want:
Ummm... It's what your customer wants, not what you want. If they're
going to be surfing the internet or yacking over VoIP from the floor,
then you'll need one type of wireless topology. If they're using
handheld readers, it might be quite different. If they're using a
cart, it might be expedient to simply install an eleveated antenna on
the cart to get over the shelves.
>*I want to be able to go from one end of the store to the other
>without losing connection.
It won't happen. Well, maybe. I can setup the access points to that
they will not disconnect on loss of connection for some long interval.
You may lose the RF path, but the connection won't drop. Is that good
enough?
>Theoretically, I should be able to put
>start a large Internet download on a notebook and walk with it to the
>other end of the store, and the download never quit.
Is that what you want to do, what the customer is planning? Now that
you mention it, have you ever done a large internet download while
walking around? I havn't. The downloads are usually done with the
laptop or desktop sitting in one location. Try to be reasonable in
your specifications.
>*For ease of management, it would be great if they used the same
>security information and setup, although I guess I could manage them
>separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or so.
Well, at a minimum, you're going to use WPA encryption and some manner
of system login. The system login is handled by the file server
operating system and is not part of this puzzle. WPA can use a shared
key for the entire store. That's great until the key leaks out. So,
if you have a handy server that can run MySQL and FreeRadius, setup
the wireless for WPA-RADIUS instead of the usual WPA-PSK. You get a
unique encryption key assigned dynamically and automagically, with the
added bonus of easy authentication and admin on the RADIUS server.
>Does anyone have any suggestions?
Yep. However, I wanna see some numbers first. How many units? What
manner of application(s)? What the budget? Who's gonna adminster the
system? Any plans for growth?
If big, look into a "wireless switch" system from Aruba, 3com, Cisco,
Symbol/Motorola, etc:
<http://www.networkworld.com/topics/wirelessswitches.html>
You get central administration, seamless roaming, built in
authentication, and a sky high price tag. If not, look anyway because
that's roughly what you'll be building out of parts and pieces.
G as it usually has better range than N; which is more focused on speed.
Since you're setting up a freebie you'd be better off providing coverage
over speed.
But you have to ask yourself, what's the point? In a grocery store? How
does this help traffic flow and sales? It's bad enough some blathering
idiot is wandering aimlessly down the aisles yammering on her cell phone.
Blocking actual shoppers from moving smoothly. Now, what, they'll be
fiddling with their PDAs and laptops? If they already have one of those
gadgets then they already have a cellular data plan. Let them stick to
that.
I just "bricked" a WRT54G v2 and can't seem to recover. Argh. Might
as well do something else, like answer questions...
>Its a good thing I posted the question; I'm thinking I'm going to be
>able save a couple $...
Hint: It's never as cheap as you plan.
>In wireless roaming, what happens if two similarly SSID'ed and
>Channel'ed WAPs overlap?
If the channels overlap, you'll have mutual interference from both
AP's but only if both are in use. If you have two client radios, each
talking to seperate AP's, they will interfere with each other. If one
AP is idle, there's tiny bit of interference from broadcasts and
beacons, but not much else. The SSID doesn't matter.
Identical SSID's are not a problem because the client can distinguish
AP's by their MAC addresses. There are huge wireless networks, all
running the same SSID. The problem is that the client software
usually doesn't have any control over which of the AP's to connect. It
searches for suitable AP's by SSID, and connects to any AP with the
right SSID based up criteria that varies from strongest signal to
random chance.
If the client picks the wrong AP, it may take an act of divine
intervention to convince the client radio to rescan for a better
connection. The client software is designed to be tenacious and will
continue to use the initial AP even if the signal strength has become
useless. Only when the signal disappears completely, or sometimes the
error rate is high enough to qualify as useless, does the client
initiate a disconnect and scan for another AP. Some client software
offer some control over this effect (i.e. Intel Proset) but generally,
it's a nightmare.
>Big question here: what about range extenders?
It will cost you $50 to answer that question. Buy a range extender,
any range extender or repeater. Set up a wireless network inside a
closed area (to minimize outside interference). Install exactly one
wireless AP or router. Add one laptop client radio. Run a thruput
benchmark test using IPerf or JPerf. Now, add a range extender into
the room. Retest. Last time I did this, the thruput dropped to about
1/3 of normal. The moral is that range extenders (and mesh networks)
work very when the client and the AP cannot see each other, and work
miserably when they can create mutual interference.
>One of the reasons for
>wireless is the inconvenience of wiring out the entire building.
That's the usual reason. Have you consider the alternative methods of
PowerLine, PhoneLine, and CATV cable networking?
>Would
>range extenders, where we would only have to get power to them (which
>is already there) provide a reasonable solution?
In my never humble opinion, they suck. Note that others disagree.
I've tried them in various configurations and actually found a few
situations where they were functional and useful (i.e. point to point
path to get over an obstacle). However, for an enclosed area, no way.
>I wouldn't have to
>range extend the whole way... I could put WAPs at either end and in
>the middle, and then use range extenders to fill in, if that is valid
>solution.
Too many radios in too small an area too much potential for mutual
interference. You could isolate the areas using directional antennas,
but methinks the design, planning, testing, and cost will break your
unspecified budget.
>Would you do G or N?
G. N is all about speed, not range. N does better (on paper) in a
highly reflective environment and might be worth looking at if
reflections become an issue. However, G is good enough for your
unspecified application. You'll also find that when the signal
becomes marginal, N client radios will revert to G. If you're
expecting marginal signals, you might as well start with G.
>Lastly, do you know of any inexpensive products that might provide
>some central management to these devices?
In message <5cmdnX30a8_2OE7VnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@speakeasy.net> "Bill
Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Would you do G or N?
>
>G as it usually has better range than N; which is more focused on speed.
>Since you're setting up a freebie you'd be better off providing coverage
>over speed.
>
>But you have to ask yourself, what's the point? In a grocery store? How
>does this help traffic flow and sales? It's bad enough some blathering
>idiot is wandering aimlessly down the aisles yammering on her cell phone.
>Blocking actual shoppers from moving smoothly. Now, what, they'll be
>fiddling with their PDAs and laptops? If they already have one of those
>gadgets then they already have a cellular data plan. Let them stick to
>that.
You're assuming the goal is to supply customers with access, this may
not be the case, he may be intending to use the equipment in-house
(which would be my guess since he mentioned "although I guess I could
manage them separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or
so.")
A friend of mine is looking at rolling out wifi across his entire berry
farm so that he can ensure that the pickers are working in the best area
based on the orders coming in. Sounds like a fun project to me.
"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:c9q7d45anhp7e1c072bpel6mgnfe51gthn@4ax.com...
> In message <5cmdnX30a8_2OE7VnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@speakeasy.net> "Bill
> Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Would you do G or N?
> >
> >G as it usually has better range than N; which is more focused on speed.
> >Since you're setting up a freebie you'd be better off providing coverage
> >over speed.
> >
> >But you have to ask yourself, what's the point? In a grocery store? How
> >does this help traffic flow and sales? It's bad enough some blathering
> >idiot is wandering aimlessly down the aisles yammering on her cell phone.
> >Blocking actual shoppers from moving smoothly. Now, what, they'll be
> >fiddling with their PDAs and laptops? If they already have one of those
> >gadgets then they already have a cellular data plan. Let them stick to
> >that.
>
> You're assuming the goal is to supply customers with access, this may
> not be the case, he may be intending to use the equipment in-house
> (which would be my guess since he mentioned "although I guess I could
> manage them separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or
> so.")
E.g. "Smart shopping carts." He could also be using it to communicate with
ordering devices carried by the stock clerks.
> A friend of mine is looking at rolling out wifi across his entire berry
> farm so that he can ensure that the pickers are working in the best area
> based on the orders coming in. Sounds like a fun project to me.
In message <gb1bfp$ci5$1@snarked.org> "D. Stussy"
<spam@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
>"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
>news:c9q7d45anhp7e1c072bpel6mgnfe51gthn@4ax.com.. .
>> In message <5cmdnX30a8_2OE7VnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@speakeasy.net> "Bill
>> Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Would you do G or N?
>> >
>> >G as it usually has better range than N; which is more focused on speed.
>> >Since you're setting up a freebie you'd be better off providing coverage
>> >over speed.
>> >
>> >But you have to ask yourself, what's the point? In a grocery store? How
>> >does this help traffic flow and sales? It's bad enough some blathering
>> >idiot is wandering aimlessly down the aisles yammering on her cell phone.
>> >Blocking actual shoppers from moving smoothly. Now, what, they'll be
>> >fiddling with their PDAs and laptops? If they already have one of those
>> >gadgets then they already have a cellular data plan. Let them stick to
>> >that.
>>
>> You're assuming the goal is to supply customers with access, this may
>> not be the case, he may be intending to use the equipment in-house
>> (which would be my guess since he mentioned "although I guess I could
>> manage them separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or
>> so.")
>
>E.g. "Smart shopping carts." He could also be using it to communicate with
>ordering devices carried by the stock clerks.
Most grocery stores have more then 7-8 shopping carts. I'd guess it's
gear the staff will be carrying.
"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:q8e8d45qethh6otm091hv5746gdo7mv67p@4ax.com...
> In message <gb1bfp$ci5$1@snarked.org> "D. Stussy"
> <spam@bde-arc.ampr.org> wrote:
> >"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
> >news:c9q7d45anhp7e1c072bpel6mgnfe51gthn@4ax.com.. .
> >> In message <5cmdnX30a8_2OE7VnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@speakeasy.net> "Bill
> >> Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Would you do G or N?
> >> >
> >> >G as it usually has better range than N; which is more focused on
speed.
> >> >Since you're setting up a freebie you'd be better off providing
coverage
> >> >over speed.
> >> >
> >> >But you have to ask yourself, what's the point? In a grocery store?
How
> >> >does this help traffic flow and sales? It's bad enough some
blathering
> >> >idiot is wandering aimlessly down the aisles yammering on her cell
phone.
> >> >Blocking actual shoppers from moving smoothly. Now, what, they'll be
> >> >fiddling with their PDAs and laptops? If they already have one of
those
> >> >gadgets then they already have a cellular data plan. Let them stick
to
> >> >that.
> >>
> >> You're assuming the goal is to supply customers with access, this may
> >> not be the case, he may be intending to use the equipment in-house
> >> (which would be my guess since he mentioned "although I guess I could
> >> manage them separately, that would get cumbersome for 7-8 devices or
> >> so.")
> >
> >E.g. "Smart shopping carts." He could also be using it to communicate
with
> >ordering devices carried by the stock clerks.
>
> Most grocery stores have more then 7-8 shopping carts. I'd guess it's
> gear the staff will be carrying.
Smart shopping carts don't send long bursts, nor do they necessarily do it
often. There can be more THAN(*) a dozen easily.
Wireless for a grocery store 
Linear Mode
