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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2007, 11:07 AM
mercury
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Default Wireless and Hibernating

I hace recently started to use the HIbernate option when closing down
my XP SP2 PC. I did this for various reasons, quicker startup and
shutdown for one. But I have noticed increased instability with my
wireless connection after a startup from a hibernate shutdown. The
wireless connection just keeps dropping out. That doesn't happen
after a normal startup.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a known issue?


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2007, 03:41 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Wireless and Hibernating

On 6 Feb 2007 03:07:49 -0800, "mercury" <mercpl@gmail.com> wrote in
<1170760069.289802.137110@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups .com>:

>I hace recently started to use the HIbernate option when closing down
>my XP SP2 PC. I did this for various reasons, quicker startup and
>shutdown for one. But I have noticed increased instability with my
>wireless connection after a startup from a hibernate shutdown. The
>wireless connection just keeps dropping out. That doesn't happen
>after a normal startup.
>
>Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a known issue?


I have no such problems with the wireless in my ThinkPad T41, which
works perfectly after resuming from hibernation. Your likely problem is
your wireless driver. Get the latest version. If that doesn't help,
try a different wireless adapter.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2007, 06:05 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Wireless and Hibernating

"mercury" <mercpl@gmail.com> hath wroth:

>I hace recently started to use the HIbernate option when closing down
>my XP SP2 PC. I did this for various reasons, quicker startup and
>shutdown for one. But I have noticed increased instability with my
>wireless connection after a startup from a hibernate shutdown. The
>wireless connection just keeps dropping out. That doesn't happen
>after a normal startup.
>
>Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a known issue?


It seems to be a problem that's equally distributed between the access
points and the clients. I have an HP ze2000 XP laptop with some
Broadcom wireless card that recovers from hibernate just fine with my
WRT54GSv4 (with DD-WRT) in both my home and office. However, the same
laptop has to bludgeoned into cooperation (enable/disable, repair,
etc) at some customers locations. I recently switched from the v3 to
the v4 client drivers on the HP, and recovery was dramatically
improved.

My guess(tm) is that the access points seem to think that they run
things. That's the way 802.11 was written for infrastructure mode.
When I client just disappears (during hibernation), the access point
eventually flushes the MAC address table, clears the WPA encryption
key register, and removes the SSID from the connection table. In
other words, the client is history.

Then, the client magically re-appears as if nothing unusual has
happened. The client assumes that the wireless connection is still
active and proceeds from where it left off. Obviously, this isn't
going to work and the access point is going to reject everything. At
this point, a reasonably intelligent client will recognize the
problem, and re-initiate the entire session starting with the probe
request, encryption key exchange, DHCP request, etc. A stupid client
will just continuously bang on the access point until the user does
something to restart the connection. I've seen both.

I have the same problem with my PDAphone (Verizon XV6700). It has
wi-fi which is really handy. However, the wi-fi section really eats
battery power so various power saving features are used, including
hibernate. Reconnnection is just as slow as an initial connection,
which suggests that it's restarting the connection every time it comes
out of hibernate. Brute force conquers all.

Eventually, we'll have 802.11r (fast roaming) which will allow for
fast connects and disconnects for roaming between multiple access
points. This should (hopefully) have the added beneficial side effect
of also quickly restarting hibernate connections. Meanwhile, it
appears to be a crap shoot.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2007, 06:46 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Wireless and Hibernating

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:05:59 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
<3qfhs2hhqbhj6lf3g6b986mk0n6gemk539@4ax.com>:

>My guess(tm) is that the access points seem to think that they run
>things. That's the way 802.11 was written for infrastructure mode.
>When I client just disappears (during hibernation), the access point
>eventually flushes the MAC address table, clears the WPA encryption
>key register, and removes the SSID from the connection table. In
>other words, the client is history.
>
>Then, the client magically re-appears as if nothing unusual has
>happened. The client assumes that the wireless connection is still
>active and proceeds from where it left off. ...


Not if it's properly written. Windows notifies all drivers and
applications (1) before hibernation and (2) during wakeup and
reinitialization. The usual problem is third-party software that
doesn't handle hibernation properly.

The Atheros mini PCI Wi-Fi card in my ThinkPad T41 using Windows XP WZC
has no problem waking up from hibernation and properly reconnecting
either to the last access point or to a new access point. It just
works.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2007, 04:18 AM
John Navas
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Wireless and Hibernating

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 18:46:00 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in
<q4ihs2l7b1a8s20mcv1vp0pmlleru35gpt@4ax.com>:

>On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 10:05:59 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
><jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote in
><3qfhs2hhqbhj6lf3g6b986mk0n6gemk539@4ax.com>:
>
>>My guess(tm) is that the access points seem to think that they run
>>things. That's the way 802.11 was written for infrastructure mode.
>>When I client just disappears (during hibernation), the access point
>>eventually flushes the MAC address table, clears the WPA encryption
>>key register, and removes the SSID from the connection table. In
>>other words, the client is history.
>>
>>Then, the client magically re-appears as if nothing unusual has
>>happened. The client assumes that the wireless connection is still
>>active and proceeds from where it left off. ...

>
>Not if it's properly written. Windows notifies all drivers and
>applications (1) before hibernation and (2) during wakeup and
>reinitialization. The usual problem is third-party software that
>doesn't handle hibernation properly.
>
>The Atheros mini PCI Wi-Fi card in my ThinkPad T41 using Windows XP WZC
>has no problem waking up from hibernation and properly reconnecting
>either to the last access point or to a new access point. It just
>works.


I was wrong: I ran more careful tests with my ThinkPad, connecting to
Wi-Fi network A, hibernating, and awakening to connect to Wi-Fi network
B. I found that Windows WZC had retained DHCP settings from network A
(gateway, etc.), which didn't work on network B. I had to "Repair" the
connection to get the correct settings for network B from DHCP. This is
indeed a bug, and I stand corrected.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://Wireless.wikia.com>
John Navas FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.wikia.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

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