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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 09:49 PM
stephen435@gmail.com
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Default Wireless router slows Internet speed

My ISP is Optonline and I have their boost service which advertises a
maximum download speed of 30 Mbps and something smaller on the upload
side. When I connect my PowerBook directly to the cable modem the speed
test that Optonline provides shows a download speed of about 27 Mbps
which is quite good. I get similar results with other speed test sites.
Now the problem.

I connected the PB via an ethernet cable to a LAN port on my Netgear
WPN824 wireless router. I reran the speed test and got a download speed
of about 11 Mbps (I turned the Airport off during this test). Next, I
turned the Airport on, disconnected from the LAN port and again ran the
speed test. This time the download speed was about 9 Mbps. So clearly
the router is a bottleneck.

I searched the forums here and tried stuff like changing the MTU and
the channel the router broadcasts on but none of these things make any
difference.

While some reduction in throughput is to be expected when operating
wirelessly it shouldn't drop so dramatically even when the Mac is
connected directly to the router (27 Mbps to 11 Mbps). Has anyone else
experienced such sharp dropoffs? Is there a better wireless router?
Better settings for this router?


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2006, 12:00 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

On 5 Oct 2006 13:49:19 -0700, stephen435@gmail.com wrote:

>My ISP is Optonline and I have their boost service which advertises a
>maximum download speed of 30 Mbps and something smaller on the upload
>side. When I connect my PowerBook directly to the cable modem the speed
>test that Optonline provides shows a download speed of about 27 Mbps
>which is quite good. I get similar results with other speed test sites.
>Now the problem.
>
>I connected the PB via an ethernet cable to a LAN port on my Netgear
>WPN824 wireless router. I reran the speed test and got a download speed
>of about 11 Mbps (I turned the Airport off during this test).


Way too slow. It should be the same 27Mbits/sec.

>Next, I
>turned the Airport on, disconnected from the LAN port and again ran the
>speed test. This time the download speed was about 9 Mbps. So clearly
>the router is a bottleneck.


WAN to LAN thruput benchmarks.
| http://www.tomsnetworking.com/lans_r...html?chart=119
The WPN824 is not listed, but the WPNT834 shows up as the fastest
router testing at 94Mbits/sec.

I agree that this is a router problem. However, don't burn time
figuring out why the wireless is slow. The real question is why the
wired connection only gets 11Mbit/sec instead of 27Mbits/sec. Lacking
any details, my guess is:
1. Bad CAT5 cable between modem and router.
2. NWAY negotiation failure between modem and router.
3. WAN port interface speed on WPN824 is set to 10Mbits/sec instead
of 100Mbit/sec.
4. Out of date firmware on the WPN824.

AFTER you fix the slow ethernet speed, then you can work on the
wireless part of the puzzle.

>I searched the forums here and tried stuff like changing the MTU and
>the channel the router broadcasts on but none of these things make any
>difference.
>
>While some reduction in throughput is to be expected when operating
>wirelessly it shouldn't drop so dramatically even when the Mac is
>connected directly to the router (27 Mbps to 11 Mbps). Has anyone else
>experienced such sharp dropoffs? Is there a better wireless router?
>Better settings for this router?


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2006, 12:26 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

On Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:00:11 GMT, Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

>WAN to LAN thruput benchmarks.
>| http://www.tomsnetworking.com/lans_r...html?chart=119
>The WPN824 is not listed, but the WPNT834 shows up as the fastest
>router testing at 94Mbits/sec.


I lied. The WPN824 is on the chart at 47Mbits/sec which should be
fine for a 30Mbits/sec connection.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2006, 01:02 AM
dold@XReXXWirel.usenet.us.com
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Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

> I agree that this is a router problem. However, don't burn time
> figuring out why the wireless is slow. The real question is why the
> wired connection only gets 11Mbit/sec instead of 27Mbits/sec. Lacking
> any details, my guess is:


> 3. WAN port interface speed on WPN824 is set to 10Mbits/sec instead
> of 100Mbit/sec.


That sounds like an excellent match. The WPN824 has LEDs that should show
a different color when connecting at 10Mb verses 100Mb, on the WAN as well
as the LAN. You could plug the laptop into the WAN port, and force the
connection to 10MB to see if the light is working that way. My older
Netgear WGR614 does indicate green for 100 Mb and amber for 10Mb, on both
LAN and WAN ports.

Tom says "The 824's routing throughput in both directions is about 47Mbps"
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/0...824/index.html pg7.


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2006, 01:22 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 00:02:04 +0000 (UTC), dold@XReXXWirel.usenet.us.com
wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:
>
>> I agree that this is a router problem. However, don't burn time
>> figuring out why the wireless is slow. The real question is why the
>> wired connection only gets 11Mbit/sec instead of 27Mbits/sec. Lacking
>> any details, my guess is:

>
>> 3. WAN port interface speed on WPN824 is set to 10Mbits/sec instead
>> of 100Mbit/sec.


>That sounds like an excellent match. The WPN824 has LEDs that should show
>a different color when connecting at 10Mb verses 100Mb, on the WAN as well
>as the LAN. You could plug the laptop into the WAN port, and force the
>connection to 10MB to see if the light is working that way. My older
>Netgear WGR614 does indicate green for 100 Mb and amber for 10Mb, on both
>LAN and WAN ports.


It's difficult to imagine how one could force the speed to 10mbits/sec
other than inserting a 10Mbit/sec switch or hub in between, but it's
still worth checking.

>Tom says "The 824's routing throughput in both directions is about 47Mbps"
>http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/0...824/index.html pg7.


Yeah, but he also says that the ethernet thruput test was performed
using the DMZ port and setup. Set top of:
| http://www.tomsnetworking.com/2005/0...824/page7.html
I don't know if this affects performance or how much.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2006, 02:19 AM
dold@XReXXWirel.usenet.us.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> wrote:

> It's difficult to imagine how one could force the speed to 10mbits/sec
> other than inserting a 10Mbit/sec switch or hub in between, but it's
> still worth checking.


I meant one might force the laptop NIC to only connect at 10Mbps to verify
that the amber light is working as a 10M indicator... If there is already
an amber light instead of green, it's at 10Mbps. How the cable modem would
get set to 10Mbps is a different question.

I didn't see any settings on the router for WAN speed. One would assume
that it must auto-negotiate, and one would hope that it does a better job
of auto-neogtiation than some systems have done in the past.
I could have sworn that I saw my cable modem-router link set to 10Mbps at
one point in time. Netgear web interface: Router-Status, Show-Statistics.

I was either imagining things, or maybe that was in the modem setup before
MCHSI quietly upped the speed on the cable. 10Mbps would still exceed my
cable speed of ~6Mbps, so most folks wouldn't notice.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2006, 05:00 PM
Bill Kearney
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Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

> 10Mbps would still exceed my
> cable speed of ~6Mbps, so most folks wouldn't notice.


Speed isn't just about big files. A faster link also provides better
(lower) latency. Just because the pipe might be restricted to a certain
amount of max bandwidth doesn't mean all forms of traffic on it will be as
slow. Don't know if the cable companies do this or not.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2006, 09:06 PM
stephen435@gmail.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

Thanks, Jeff. I checked all the things you suggest, excpet for the
NWAY because I don't know what that is. The firmware is up-to-date, I
used several different cables all with the same result, and the port
light is green. Any other suggestions? I asked Netgear tech support
and so far they are no help.

I'm very frustrated --- 27 Mbps coming into the modem and a 66% drop
when it goes through the Netgear WPN824 router either via ethernet or
wirelessly.

-- stephen



Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On 5 Oct 2006 13:49:19 -0700, stephen435@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >My ISP is Optonline and I have their boost service which advertises a
> >maximum download speed of 30 Mbps and something smaller on the upload
> >side. When I connect my PowerBook directly to the cable modem the speed
> >test that Optonline provides shows a download speed of about 27 Mbps
> >which is quite good. I get similar results with other speed test sites.
> >Now the problem.
> >
> >I connected the PB via an ethernet cable to a LAN port on my Netgear
> >WPN824 wireless router. I reran the speed test and got a download speed
> >of about 11 Mbps (I turned the Airport off during this test).

>
> Way too slow. It should be the same 27Mbits/sec.
>
> >Next, I
> >turned the Airport on, disconnected from the LAN port and again ran the
> >speed test. This time the download speed was about 9 Mbps. So clearly
> >the router is a bottleneck.

>
> WAN to LAN thruput benchmarks.
> | http://www.tomsnetworking.com/lans_r...html?chart=119
> The WPN824 is not listed, but the WPNT834 shows up as the fastest
> router testing at 94Mbits/sec.
>
> I agree that this is a router problem. However, don't burn time
> figuring out why the wireless is slow. The real question is why the
> wired connection only gets 11Mbit/sec instead of 27Mbits/sec. Lacking
> any details, my guess is:
> 1. Bad CAT5 cable between modem and router.
> 2. NWAY negotiation failure between modem and router.
> 3. WAN port interface speed on WPN824 is set to 10Mbits/sec instead
> of 100Mbit/sec.
> 4. Out of date firmware on the WPN824.
>
> AFTER you fix the slow ethernet speed, then you can work on the
> wireless part of the puzzle.
>
> >I searched the forums here and tried stuff like changing the MTU and
> >the channel the router broadcasts on but none of these things make any
> >difference.
> >
> >While some reduction in throughput is to be expected when operating
> >wirelessly it shouldn't drop so dramatically even when the Mac is
> >connected directly to the router (27 Mbps to 11 Mbps). Has anyone else
> >experienced such sharp dropoffs? Is there a better wireless router?
> >Better settings for this router?

>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2006, 01:43 AM
Jeff Liebermann
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed

"stephen435@gmail.com" <stephen435@gmail.com> hath wroth:

>Thanks, Jeff. I checked all the things you suggest, excpet for the
>NWAY because I don't know what that is.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWay
The mismatch can be either the speed (10 or 100) or the protocol (full
duplex or half duplex). There are two place where it can screw up.
Between the modem and the router (WAN side), or between the router and
the computah (LAN side).

>The firmware is up-to-date, I
>used several different cables all with the same result, and the port
>light is green.


I think green is 100Mbits/sec and orange is 10Mbits/sec.

>Any other suggestions?


Substitute something. I you have, or can borrow, a different router,
try substituting. Same with the computer. I know the computer works
correctly when connected directly to the cable modem, but I just want
a sanity check. I don't think it's the cable modem, but if you can
juggle it (without re-registering the MAC address with the cable
company), I would try substituting it.

This is kinda dumb, but try resetting the router to defaults and
re-enter all the settings. Don't restore from a saved settings file.
I've had a few miracles happen after a grand reset, especially after a
firmware update.

>I asked Netgear tech support
>and so far they are no help.


Well, at least you tried calling support.

>I'm very frustrated --- 27 Mbps coming into the modem and a 66% drop
>when it goes through the Netgear WPN824 router either via ethernet or
>wirelessly.


I've only got a 1.5Mbits/sec DSL line and you're complaining about not
getting 30Mbits/sec. You'll get no sympathy from me. My connection
is never fast enough.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2006, 09:23 PM
stephen435@gmail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Wireless router slows Internet speed


Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> "stephen435@gmail.com" <stephen435@gmail.com> hath wroth:
>
>
> Substitute something. I you have, or can borrow, a different router,
> try substituting. Same with the computer. I know the computer works
> correctly when connected directly to the cable modem, but I just want
> a sanity check. I don't think it's the cable modem, but if you can
> juggle it (without re-registering the MAC address with the cable
> company), I would try substituting it.
>
> This is kinda dumb, but try resetting the router to defaults and
> re-enter all the settings. Don't restore from a saved settings file.
> I've had a few miracles happen after a grand reset, especially after a
> firmware update.
>


I tried the same tests with another Mac PowerBook I have at home and
got the same results. I've reset the modem both via s/w and used the
h/w button, reloaded the firmware, configured the router manually (not
reloaded the config file), tried different channels, with and without
various Netgear options, powered things down and up, and on and on.

> >I asked Netgear tech support
> >and so far they are no help.

>
> Well, at least you tried calling support.
>
> >I'm very frustrated --- 27 Mbps coming into the modem and a 66% drop
> >when it goes through the Netgear WPN824 router either via ethernet or
> >wirelessly.

>
> I've only got a 1.5Mbits/sec DSL line and you're complaining about not
> getting 30Mbits/sec. You'll get no sympathy from me. My connection
> is never fast enough.

Sorry to be eating cake in front of the starving but I am usually
pretty good at figuring out what is not working properly so now it's
become something of an obsession. At this point I' ready to pay
Netgear for premium phone support and failing that buy a new router --
anyone using a boost type service and have good luck?

Thanks for all your suggestions, Jeff.

>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558



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