Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jun 26, 1:25 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 26, 12:50 am, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 25, 11:31 pm, Le Chaud Lapin <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > For all else who are interested, the pseudo-generic name for what I am
> > looking for is "SoftAP".
>
> > Google it, and much information will come forth.
>
> I appears that the complete package is Zyxel G200 series:
>
> http://us.zyxel.com/web/product_fami...dexflag=200405....
BUYER BEWARE:
Zyxel seems to be engaged in deliberate false-advertising to move
products known to be incompatible with Vista in some respects.
I bought the Zyxel AG-225H and was extremely disappointed today that
the Access Point feature will not run on Vista.
"the Software Access Point feature that is included in each and every
AG-225H."
...it also reads:
"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box"
"Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to
contend with
coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don’t be afraid of your new AG-225H
becoming
obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades"
I was definitely afraid of no Vista support for my Access Point
dongle, so I spent over an hour carefully searching the web to make
sure that the Access Point device I chose supported Vista. I chose the
AG-225H specifically because it mentioned "Microsoft Vista Support Out
Of The Box."
If you try to use this device with Vista, the Software Access Point
feature not only will not work, it will not install. AT ALL. This is
not a bug. It is deliberate. The engineers have not written any GUI
software for Vista. Zero. If the installation CD detects that the
operating system on which it is being installed is Windows Vista, it
will install the device driver only, and completely block installation
of any other software, including the Access Point software.
I spent 30 minutes on the phone today with a Zyxel representative and
his manager arguing about whether a rational, moderately intelligent
person reading the page at the link above would get the impression
that the device is Vista-ready, meaning not only will it be useable as
a normal Wi-Fi roaming dongle, but will also be useable as an Access
Point, which is the only reason I bought it. The representative I
spoke with, and his manager, staunchly denied that they are
responsible for any wrong-doing or confusion that might have arisen,
and faulted me [an electrical/software engineer that programs in
Windows and network devices in particular] for "misinterpreting their
clearly-written presentation."
To prove that they were not at fault, the representative told me to go
to the "Support and Downloads" location on their web site:
And told to scroll down near the bottom and read one of the FAQ's
where it says:
Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can’t use the bundled
Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? "
A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL’s Client Adapters
however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista!
Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you can
install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC.
Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the
Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows
Vista."
What this means, in English, is that the Access Point feature *WILL
NOT WORK* on Vista. NOT AT ALL. Note how they call the Access Point
software the "Utility", not "Access Point Software".
I then asked, "Isn't the Support & Downloads area of a company's web-
site typically visited by customers *after* they have already
purchased the product?" He said "No, it is clearly written there, and
you could have excercised some initiative and looked at that page and
seen that the Access Point feature was not supported by Vista."
I then said, "But I was mislead by the page that describes the
product. Why do you not simply put an asterisk next to the 'Microsoft
Vista Support Out of the Box' blurb on the product description page to
say that Vista support does not include the Access Point feature?
After all, the only reason I bought your product is so I could use the
Acess Point feature on Vista." He said, "We will consider that in the
future."
I noticed that too many questions on the FAQ page seemed to indicate
that I was not the only person who inferred that "Microsoft Vista
Support Out of the Box" meant that the Access Point feature would work
on Vista, so I asked the manager..."Certainly there are other people
who where duped by this page...I cannot be the only person who thought
that the Access Point feature would work on Vista only to find out
that it doesn't?" he said, "Yes, you're the only person." I said, "Are
you sure? I am not an idiot...I know how to read, I'm not lazy, this
simply doesn't make sense." He said, "No,..no..you're the only one."
I was about to ask if I could return the device and get my money back
until I read the following FAQ not far from the other FAQ:
Q: "Do you have an exchange program for customers that upgrade their
PC’s to Windows Vista only to find out that the ZyXEL product they are
using does NOT support Windows Vista?"
A: "Unfortunately the 2 Year ZyXEL Warranty program does NOT include
exchanges if the product is not Micosoft Vista supported. The
supported operating systems are dependent on the time of which the
product was developed. Although ZyXEL tries our best to make sure that
all products will be Microsoft Windows Vista certified, sometimes a
replacement product will shift resources from one product to another."
Liar.
This company certainly knows how to make first impressions.
[NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
used under Windows Vista.]
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> used under Windows Vista.]
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
Under Specifications
System Requirement
* Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
o 300 MHz or compatible above
o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
o A CD ROM drive
o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
No mention of Vista
>
> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
LR wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>
>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
>> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
>> used under Windows Vista.]
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>
> Under Specifications
>
> System Requirement
>
> * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> o 300 MHz or compatible above
> o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> o A CD ROM drive
> o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> No mention of Vista
>
>
>>
>> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>>
>> -Le Chaud Lapin-
Zyxel Vista Support http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_vista.php
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 2, 1:43*am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> > [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. *I will
> > likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> > principle. *What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> > look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> > that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> > page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> > used under Windows Vista.]
>
> >http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>
> Under Specifications
>
> System Requirement
>
> * * ** Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> * * * * * *o 300 MHz or compatible above
> * * * * * *o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> * * * * * *o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> * * * * * *o A CD ROM drive
> * * * * * *o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> * * * * * *o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> * No mention of Vista
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 2, 1:54*am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> LR wrote:
> > Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>
> >> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. *I will
> >> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> >> principle. *What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> >> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> >> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> >> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> >> used under Windows Vista.]
>
> >>http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>
> > Under Specifications
>
> > System Requirement
>
> > * * * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> > * * * * * o 300 MHz or compatible above
> > * * * * * o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> > * * * * * o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> > * * * * * o A CD ROM drive
> > * * * * * o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> > * * * * * o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> > *No mention of Vista
>
> >> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>
> >> -Le Chaud Lapin-
>
> Zyxel Vista Support
Apparently you did not read my OP. In it, I placed that link already.
Here, let's take two paragraphs, bout written by Zyxel, and place them
next to ecah other to see if it becomes clear:
First, the link that you put above reads:
Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can’t use the bundled
Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? "
A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL’s Client
Adapters
however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista!
Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you
can
install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC.
Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the
Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows
Vista."
"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box"
"Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to
contend with
coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don’t be afraid of your new AG-225H
becoming
obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades."
So, quick question: After reading this last paragraph, should I expect
Vista support or not? This last paragraph, which is on the main page
for the product, indicates that I should, even though it does not. The
other paragraph is in the product support section.
If I buy even a $40,000 vehicle, I do not go to the car manufacturers
web site to look at the product support section to see if the
marketing materials about its features were dishonest. That would not
make sense.
If a company says that their product has Vista support on the main
description page of the product, then, in my mind, there should be
Vista support for that product. If not, then they should not write on
it, "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".
One of five key tests of whether this constitutes false advertising,
as outlined by US DOC and other laws , is whether a majority of
people, upon seeing on main description page,
"Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".
would be lead to believe that there is Vista support for the product.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:54 am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> LR wrote:
>>> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>>>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
>>>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
>>>> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
>>>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
>>>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
>>>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
>>>> used under Windows Vista.]
>>>> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>>> Under Specifications
>>> System Requirement
>>> * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
>>> o 300 MHz or compatible above
>>> o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
>>> o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
>>> o A CD ROM drive
>>> o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
>>> o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>>> No mention of Vista
>>>> Zyxel Customer Support In USA: (800) 978-7222
>>>> -Le Chaud Lapin-
>> Zyxel Vista Support
>
>> http://www.zyxel.com/web/support_vista.php
>
> Apparently you did not read my OP. In it, I placed that link already.
>
> Here, let's take two paragraphs, bout written by Zyxel, and place them
> next to ecah other to see if it becomes clear:
>
> First, the link that you put above reads:
>
> Q:"When I install my ZyXEL Client Adapter, I can’t use the bundled
> Utility that controls the adapter. Is this normal? "
> A:"Currently, Vista is not supported on any of ZyXEL’s Client
> Adapters
> however this does not mean that they will not work on Windows Vista!
> Using the step by step setup process outlined on this webpage, you
> can
> install any of our client adapters onto your Windows Vista OS PC.
> Please remember that the Utility used to configure and control the
> Client Adapter will be the Windows Zero Config Utility within Windows
> Vista."
>
> And now, the link for the AG-225H [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] reads:
>
> "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box"
> "Microsoft Vista is the next big operating system change users have to
> contend with
> coming out of Microsoft in 2007. Don’t be afraid of your new AG-225H
> becoming
> obsolete lagging behind your computer OS upgrades."
>
> So, quick question: After reading this last paragraph, should I expect
> Vista support or not? This last paragraph, which is on the main page
> for the product, indicates that I should, even though it does not. The
> other paragraph is in the product support section.
>
> If I buy even a $40,000 vehicle, I do not go to the car manufacturers
> web site to look at the product support section to see if the
> marketing materials about its features were dishonest. That would not
> make sense.
>
> If a company says that their product has Vista support on the main
> description page of the product, then, in my mind, there should be
> Vista support for that product. If not, then they should not write on
> it, "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".
>
> One of five key tests of whether this constitutes false advertising,
> as outlined by US DOC and other laws , is whether a majority of
> people, upon seeing on main description page,
>
> "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box".
>
> would be lead to believe that there is Vista support for the product.
>
> If so, then this is false advertising.
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-
Evidently you cannot be bothered to read the posted links as the one you
posted and the one I posted are not the same, there are no FAQ's on the
link I posted and it clearly states that the "Vista Utility" is not
supported.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> On Jul 2, 1:43 am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. I will
>>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
>>> principle. What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
>>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
>>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
>>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
>>> used under Windows Vista.]
>>> http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
>> Under Specifications
>>
>> System Requirement
>>
>> * Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
>> o 300 MHz or compatible above
>> o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
>> o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
>> o A CD ROM drive
>> o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
>> o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>>
>> No mention of Vista
>
> This link [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] is the main link for the product
> description page.
>
> It has "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" written in bold
> letters.
>
> I think that counts as a "mention of Vista".
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-
That link also includes the specification page which you evidently did
not read. If in your original post you had said that you required the
device to work in Vista rather than just "Windows" I would have advised
that there was a good chance it would not work. I got the G-202 as part
of a package deal and as the "spec" says works in XP, with limitations
on encryption, however I downloaded the Vista Utility to my Vista "play"
machine and the Vista Utility does not contain the "SoftAP" function and
I would think this applies to all their Vista Utilities.
If you wish to find a system that works in Vista you would stand a
better chance with the Ralink Chipsets. Check the release notes:-
<http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Windows.html>
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 2, 1:00*pm, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> > On Jul 2, 1:43 am, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
> >> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> >>> [NOTE: To those reading this post, this is not just a rant. *I will
> >>> likely sue this company for false advertising as a matter of
> >>> principle. *What would help me greatly is if you could simply take a
> >>> look at the following link, and make a mental note (or otherwise)
> >>> that, as of 2008-07-08, there is nothing on the product description
> >>> page that says that the Access Point feature of the device cannot be
> >>> used under Windows Vista.]
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn
> >> Under Specifications
>
> >> System Requirement
>
> >> * * ** Notebook or PC with the Pentium II
> >> * * * * * *o 300 MHz or compatible above
> >> * * * * * *o Minimum 32MB RAM (64MB Recommended)
> >> * * * * * *o A minimum of 20MB available hard disk space
> >> * * * * * *o A CD ROM drive
> >> * * * * * *o USB Type A slot (V2.0/V1.1 Comparable)
> >> * * * * * *o Microsoft Windows XP/2000
>
> >> * No mention of Vista
>
> > This link [http://tinyurl.com/6zr6zn] is the main link for the product
> > description page.
>
> > It has "Microsoft Vista Support Out of the Box" written in bold
> > letters.
>
> > I think that counts as a "mention of Vista".
>
> > -Le Chaud Lapin-
>
> That link also includes the specification page which you evidently did
> not read. If in your original post you had said that you required the
> device to work in Vista rather than just "Windows" I would have advised
> that there was a good chance it would not work. I got the G-202 as part
> of a package deal and as the "spec" says works in XP, with limitations
> on encryption, however I downloaded the Vista Utility to my Vista "play"
> machine and the Vista Utility does not contain the "SoftAP" function and
> I would think this applies to all their Vista Utilities.
> * *If you wish to find a system that works in Vista you would stand a
> better chance with the Ralink Chipsets. Check the release notes:-
> * <http://www.ralinktech.com/ralink/Home/Support/Windows.html>-
Given that one of the few distinguishing features claimed by the
AG-225H is that it can work as a Softwware Access Point, and given
that it is obvious from the main page for this product that customers
are worried about Vista support, what would be wrong with Zyxel simply
putting an asterisk next to the blurb that reads "Microsoft Vista
Support Out Of The Box!" that indicates to customer that "Software
Access Point feature will not work on Vista."
That way, any customer who comes across the page, after searching
specifically for a dongle that has software access point feature and
Vista support, seeing "Software Access Point" and "Microsoft Vista
Support Out Of The Box!" on the same page, within a few paragraphs of
each other, will not be mislead into thinking that the Software Access
Point feature is supported on Vista.
That's what happened in my case. I googled SoftAP Vista dongle. Zyxel
came up. I went to the main product page, and there it was, with no
qualifications.
I did not go to the product support page since I had not yet had a
product that needed supporting.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet Le Chaud Lapin <_jaibuduvin_@gmail.com> wrote in part:
> On Jul 4, 6:17*am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Quit whinging about it and move on.
> No one asked your opinion.
Actually, as OP in this thread, _YOU_ most definitely did.
You might not like contrary opinions but you invited them.
Beggars cannot be choosers, hot [drunk] rabbit.
Nor can you make a comment and expect others to
listen without listening to their comments in turn.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 4, 1:19*pm, Robert Redelmeier <red...@ev1.net.invalid> wrote:
> In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet Le Chaud Lapin <_jaibuduv...@gmail.com> wrote in part:
>
> > On Jul 4, 6:17*am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Quit whinging about it and move on.
> > No one asked your opinion.
>
> Actually, as OP in this thread, _YOU_ most definitely did.
> You might not like contrary opinions *but you invited them.
>
> Beggars cannot be choosers, hot [drunk] rabbit.
> Nor can you make a comment and expect others to
> listen without listening to their comments in turn.
On the contrary, I very much believe in freedom of speech, in all
forms. ;)
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> On Jul 4, 6:17 am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> TLDR
>>
>> Quit whinging about it and move on.
>
> No one asked your opinion.
Out of interest, who asked yours?
And FYI, this is usenet, nor your private chatroom. You post a comment,
people reply, thats how it works. Not all the replies will agree with
you or be ones you like. If you don't like the replies, grow a thicker
skin.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 5, 5:21*am, Mark McIntyre <markmcint...@TROUSERSspamcop.net>
wrote:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
> > On Jul 4, 6:17 am, "Bill Kearney" <wkearne...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> TLDR
>
> >> Quit whinging about it and move on.
>
> > No one asked your opinion.
>
> Out of interest, who asked yours?
>
> And FYI, this is usenet, nor your private chatroom. You post a comment,
> people reply, thats how it works. Not all the replies will agree with
> you or be ones you like. If you don't like the replies, grow a thicker
> skin.
I made the comment anticipating that someone, especially the person I
made it to, would respond as you and Robert Redelmeier did.
What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we
could go back an forth indefinitely.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
<jaibuduvin@gmail.com> wrote:
>What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we
>could go back an forth indefinitely.
The easiest way to determine if you want to continue an endless
discussion is to ask yourself if you would be interested in reading
what you're about to post. If the answer is negative, then cease,
desist, and don't post. Following my own advice, some useful content:
There's been some litigation over "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready"
claims for various products that really are not.
<http://blogs.computerworld.com/bought_a_vista_capable_junk_pc_you_may_be_in_luck>
Google should help you find other suits involving claims of false
compatibility. For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:
<http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/0110248>
<http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org>
If you're serious about having been grievously injured by your
purchase of a Zyxel AG-225H, then I suggest you initiate or join one
of the numerous class action suits. Otherwise, just return it to your
vendor or sell it on eBay.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 5, 11:02*am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 08:25:26 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
>
> <jaibudu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >What is remarkable is what you both say is 100% true, which means we
> >could go back an forth indefinitely.
>
> The easiest way to determine if you want to continue an endless
> discussion is to ask yourself if you would be interested in reading
> what you're about to post. *If the answer is negative, then cease,
> desist, and don't post. *Following my own advice, some useful content:
>
> There's been some litigation over "Vista Capable" and "Vista Ready"
> claims for various products that really are not.
> <http://blogs.computerworld.com/bought_a_vista_capable_junk_pc_you_may...>
> Google should help you find other suits involving claims of false
> compatibility. *For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:
> <http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/0110248>
> <http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org>
> If you're serious about having been grievously injured by your
> purchase of a Zyxel AG-225H, then I suggest you initiate or join one
> of the numerous class action suits. *Otherwise, just return it to your
> vendor or sell it on eBay.
>
> >In essence, anything goes.
>
> In reality, everything goes.
I guess one should not be suprised that a few companies are trying to
claim Vista-compatibility when they know that it is non-existent or
partially existent. No one wants to wasted development resources on an
OS that has been adopted with uncertainty.
In the case of Zyxel, it appears that the only truly Vista-compatible
software is the device driver itself and the Installshield shell that
does the installation, which, of course, they didn't write. The rest
of the software, if I am not mistaken, is XP-only. But since NDIS 5.1
drivers will often work without modification from XP to Vista x86, my
guess is that the driver was tested to see if it would work in station-
only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would
claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box", knowing that no
software was written specifically for Vista, but hoping that anyone
hoping to use the the Access Point feature on Vista would not
complain.
In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>
> I made the comment anticipating that someone, especially the person I
> made it to, would respond as you and Robert Redelmeier did.
So you were trolling.
And I just realised you're xposting too.
Ok, plonk.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet Mark McIntyre <markmcintyre@trousersspamcop.net> wrote in part:
> Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>> On the contrary, I very much believe in
>> freedom of speech, in all forms. ;)
> This comment
> >>> No one asked your opinion.
> doesn't sounds like it though, you must admit.
I thought so too, until I saw the smiley and figured it meant
"all forms" included rude, misleading and/or erronious speech.
Self-depracating humor is far more common in the UK and EU
than in the US.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 09:44:34 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
<jaibuduvin@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For example, Nvidia can't seem to get it right:
>> <http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/03/0110248>
>> <http://www.nvidiaclassaction.org>
Ooops. That was a terrible example as the class action web pile is
now owned by a domain squatter and the class action suit was
apparently never initiated.
>I guess one should not be suprised that a few companies are trying to
>claim Vista-compatibility when they know that it is non-existent or
>partially existent. No one wants to wasted development resources on an
>OS that has been adopted with uncertainty.
I know of one company, that paid an expert to test some of their
existing XP drivers for Vista compatibility. They didn't want to pay
Microsoft to certify the drivers. Apparently, he did a not so
wonderful job of testing, and pronounced that everything was just fine
with minimal tweaks. The company announced that most of their
products and drivers installed and functioned under Vista. It took
about a month for the complaints to accumulate in support, along with
a dramatic increase in returns, to convince marketing that perhaps
something was not quite right. I haven't bothered to check if
anything was actually done about it.
For entertainment value, MS labels "Vista Capable" and "Vista Premium
Ready" PC's.
<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/capable.mspx>
and various levels of Vista certification. You might wanna see if
your hardware is compatible, ready, certified, blessed, or compatible:
<http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/Default.aspx> (IE6 or IE7 only).
Looks like Zyxel has certified some wireless devices, but not the
AG-225H.
<http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductList.aspx?m=v&g=d&cid=711&f=86p>
Note that some of the model numbers are missing from the certification
list. I wonder why.
>only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would
>claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box",
Actually, that phrase is not one of the offical Microsoft labels and
could very well indicate that they did their own testing.
Incidentally, if you read the phrase exactly as you wrote it, it means
you can call Microsoft and get Vista support by opening the box. I
don't think that's what they intended, but that's what it says. Not a
very good OOBE (out of box experience).
>In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
>launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
>AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
Reference? URL? I couldn't find anything with Google.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 5, 2:02*pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> For entertainment value, MS labels "Vista Capable" and "Vista Premium
> Ready" PC's.
> <http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/c...>
> and various levels of Vista certification. *You might wanna see if
> your hardware is compatible, ready, certified, blessed, or compatible:
> <http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/Default.aspx> * (IE6 or IE7 only).
> Looks like Zyxel has certified some wireless devices, but not the
> AG-225H.
> <http://winqual.microsoft.com/HCL/ProductList.aspx?m=v&g=d&cid=711&f=86p>
> Note that some of the model numbers are missing from the certification
> list. *I wonder why.
>
> >only mode on Vista, and if it did, then Zyxel resolved that they would
> >claim "Microsoft Vista Support Out Of The Box",
>
> Actually, that phrase is not one of the offical Microsoft labels and
> could very well indicate that they did their own testing.
Oh I bet they did. Remember here, though, I am not talking about the
driver. It was the user-mode software that does not work on Vista,
and the user-mode software drives the driver, which means that, if
all I have are Vista machines, I cannot use the dongle as an AP.
> Incidentally, if you read the phrase exactly as you wrote it, it means
> you can call Microsoft and get Vista support by opening the box. *I
> don't think that's what they intended, but that's what it says. *Not a
> very good OOBE (out of box experience).
>
> >In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
> >launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
> >AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
>
> Reference? *URL? *I couldn't find anything with Google.
The investigation just started (at my behest), meaning any consumer
can cause and investigation of any company for any reasonable claim of
false advertising.
I will however, say that the FTC representative was suprisingly
diligent in verifiying details, etc. I also discerned from our
conversation Zyxel is not the only company playing this game.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 13:25:56 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
<jaibuduvin@gmail.com> wrote:
>Oh I bet they did. Remember here, though, I am not talking about the
>driver. It was the user-mode software that does not work on Vista,
>and the user-mode software drives the driver, which means that, if
>all I have are Vista machines, I cannot use the dongle as an AP.
Yep. You have a valid complaint in that all the software in the box
doesn't play with Vista. Whether it justifies all the noise you're
making is debatable.
>The investigation just started (at my behest), meaning any consumer
>can cause and investigation of any company for any reasonable claim of
>false advertising.
Yeah. That happens. I've been involved in a few class action suits
against companies that fumble over their advertising claims. Hard
disk manufacturers that couldn't resist stating unformatted capacity.
3Com that used the X2 trademark on their modems, only to discover that
buyers genuinely expected the modems to be x2 or two times as fast.
Several companies, who thought that a change of name justifies not
paying any rebates and revising some of their product specs. Also,
some medical billing issues that are not exactly relevant here. The
bottom line is that the lawyers collected millions by shaking down the
companies, while the victims usually received a gift certificate or
nominal discount on future purchases.
>I will however, say that the FTC representative was suprisingly
>diligent in verifiying details, etc. I also discerned from our
>conversation Zyxel is not the only company playing this game.
Conversation? Have you ever heard of the world wide web?
<https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov>
Fill out the form and wait your place in line. The FTC is required by
law to "investigate" any and all complaints that it receives. The
investigation may end up going no further than someone reading your
complaint and filling it appropriately. It may also be taken
seriously and obtain the attention of the Justice Department. Hard to
tell. If Zyxel didn't provide any campaign contributions, I'm sure
the threat of an investigation would get their attention. It works
for Microsoft.
As for other companies playing the same game, I suppose that's true.
Everyone lies, but that's ok because nobody listens.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 5, 6:06*pm, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 13:25:56 -0700 (PDT), Le Chaud Lapin
> As for other companies playing the same game, I suppose that's true.
> Everyone lies, but that's ok because nobody listens.
I used to believe that until about 20 years ago, when an employee of
of Massachussetts Turnpike Authority started shaving $1 of my toll
payments. One day I deliberately paid with a $20, pretended I was in
hurry to make my 1 hour commute from Boston to Framingham, got all
$1's back (which is what made me suspicious in the first place), and I
pulled over to count. $18 back, when toll was $1. I walked back to
booth to demand my extra $1, and he pretended he didn't know. I called
MTA in vain, until finally a coworker who knew a friend of friend,
etc...let it be known that he was funding his drug habbit by
skimming. Anyhow, long story short, I have a check in my safe for $2
from MTA that took me 7 months to get. Obviously it is a matter of
principle for such a small amount, but I learned quite a bit from that
experience.
Since then, I have never had to sue anyone, but I have had countless
situations where people have been induced to make good their accounts.
Sometimes I let things go, like when took a drink at fancy Boston
restaurant and end up with mouthful of broken glass (manager wanted to
refund entire $140+ ticket + extra), and sometimes I push, like when
Air France tried to keep $2000 payment without telling me decisively
up front whether I would be allowed to travel not long after 9/11.
Sometimes the "defendant" finds mutual compromise, like when I was hit
by uninsured driver ($200), again ($0 and a handshake since there was
very little damage to my vehicle), etc. There is also matter of oil
company that trespassed on property I jointly own in East Texas.
Ahem. ;)
But it's not really the dollar amount. I look at the Zyxel situation
as an opportunity to do for others what others have done for me,
whether I was aware of it or not.
Who knows...someone else might want to run AP on PC running Vista, and
come across my post, and think twice, saving $65.
Zyxel certainly came across it (within 24 hours in fact).
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Le Chaud Lapin wrote:
>>> In any case, as of 2008-06-02, the US Federal Trade Commision has
>>> launched a formal investigation of Zyxel's Vista-support claims of the
>>> AG-225H, so we'll see what happens.
>> Reference? URL? I couldn't find anything with Google.
>
> The investigation just started (at my behest), meaning any consumer
> can cause and investigation of any company for any reasonable claim of
> false advertising.
>
> I will however, say that the FTC representative was suprisingly
> diligent in verifiying details, etc. I also discerned from our
> conversation Zyxel is not the only company playing this game.
>
> -Le Chaud Lapin-
If you are doing something about it rather than just Trolling at least
get your facts straight. "2008-06-02" is either 2nd June or 6th Feb and
your post " Windows PC As IEEE 802.11 Access Point" commenced 25th June.
At the start of that post you had "supposedly" not decided what item to
buy. If you filed a complaint with the FTC on 2008-06-02 then you
deliberately bought an item knowing that it would not work in a
particular function.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
Begin <EL-dndO5EJF5E-3VnZ2dnUVZ8vudnZ2d@bt.com>
On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:22:44 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> If you are doing something about it rather than just Trolling at least
> get your facts straight. "2008-06-02" is either 2nd June or 6th Feb
Don't do that, you silly person. We have trouble enough with the
braindead ``nuxi''-style US date format as is. According to ISO8601
"2008-06-02" is 2nd June *only*. In fact, this sort of silly doubting is
why that standard exists in the first place.
Repeat after me: YYYY-MM-DD; fullyear dash month dash day and no other
interpretations. If for whatever reason you have to fuck up the order,
you write the month as Roman numbers or the month name or abbreviation.
--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
This message was originally posted on Usenet in plain text.
Any other representation, additions, or changes do not have my
consent and may be a violation of international copyright law.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 6, 4:59*am, jpd <read_the_...@do.not.spam.it.invalid> wrote:
> Begin *<EL-dndO5EJF5E-3VnZ2dnUVZ8vudn...@bt.com>
>
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 10:22:44 +0100, LR <l...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > If you are doing something about it rather than just Trolling at least
> > get your facts straight. "2008-06-02" is either 2nd June or 6th Feb
>
> Don't do that, you silly person. We have trouble enough with the
> braindead ``nuxi''-style US date format as is. According to ISO8601
> "2008-06-02" is 2nd June *only*. In fact, this sort of silly doubting is
> why that standard exists in the first place.
>
> Repeat after me: YYYY-MM-DD; fullyear dash month dash day and no other
> interpretations. If for whatever reason you have to fuck up the order,
> you write the month as Roman numbers or the month name or abbreviation.
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
On Jul 6, 4:59*am, jpd <read_the_...@do.not.spam.it.invalid> wrote:
>
> Don't do that, you silly person. We have trouble enough with the
> braindead ``nuxi''-style US date format as is. According to ISO8601
> "2008-06-02" is 2nd June *only*. In fact, this sort of silly doubting is
> why that standard exists in the first place.
>
> Repeat after me: YYYY-MM-DD; fullyear dash month dash day and no other
> interpretations. If for whatever reason you have to fuck up the order,
> you write the month as Roman numbers or the month name or abbreviation.
>
> --
In the US it's definitely DD-MM-YYYY. I'm trying to get used to the
"braindead" (insult-speak for "not the way we do it"-eh?) method
they use in Mexico, um, MM-DD-YYYY I think.
But now I have to fill out all these US goverment forms right now,and
they are very strict about DD-MM-YYYY. They will reject the form if I
attempt to adhere to somebody else's standard.
>In the US it's definitely DD-MM-YYYY. I'm trying to get used to the
>"braindead" (insult-speak for "not the way we do it"-eh?) method
>they use in Mexico, um, MM-DD-YYYY I think.
>
>But now I have to fill out all these US goverment forms right now,and
>they are very strict about DD-MM-YYYY. They will reject the form if I
>attempt to adhere to somebody else's standard.
Methinks you have it backwards. If you're running W2K or XP, go to:
Control Panel -> Regional Options -> Date.
For the USA, it's M/d/yyyy
Re: Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company!
> <seaweedst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >In the US it's definitely DD-MM-YYYY. *I'm trying to get used to the
> >"braindead" * (insult-speak for "not the way we do it"-eh?) method
> >they use in Mexico, um, *MM-DD-YYYY I think.
>
> >But now I have to fill out all these US goverment forms right now,and
> >they are very strict about DD-MM-YYYY. *They will reject the form if I
> >attempt to adhere to somebody else's standard.
>
> Methinks you have it backwards. *If you're running W2K or XP, go to:
> * *Control Panel -> Regional Options -> Date.
> For the USA, it's M/d/yyyy
It can be changed of course. I have mine set as YYYY-MM-DD on Vista.
I was under the impression, as jpd noted, that the ISO standard format
is YYYY-MM-DD:
Zyxel - False Advertising! - Beware of this Company! 