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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2009, 10:28 PM
Aussie Bob
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Default Competition is gouging phone users

From
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html

WE MUST be mad. Telstra is obliged under the universal service obligation to
offer telephone customers a basic telephony service for $30 a month. The
Rudd Government wants to replace this with a new service - the national
broadband network - which on the most favourable assumptions will cost
customers $60 to $70 a month for a basic telephone service.

And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra copper
wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.

This is called levelling the playing field for fair competition. But this is
not the end of the gouging of Australian telephone users.

In their capacity as taxpayers they will have to compensate Telstra
shareholders for the loss of the ''free revenue'' - estimated to be about
$3.5 billion a year profit from the fixed network.

The Government will be up for an up-front payment of between $17 billion and
$35 billion (depending on whether the profit flow is discounted by 10 per
cent or 20 per cent) if it wants to give fair compensation to Telstra
shareholders. It doesn't.

Under the current arrangements, not all of that $3.5 billion is passed on to
Telstra shareholders as dividends. In fact, most of that money is reinvested
in the network.

The network has been built over 100 years. It came out of the retained
earnings of the Post Master General/Telecom/Telstra and has been
progressively upgraded.

In the past 30 years this has involved the replacement of manual exchanges
with automatic exchanges and digitisation of the network. This work has been
funded largely out of retained earnings from customers and the massive
savings from the opportunity to cut staff by more than 40,000.

In 2005 Telstra came to the then Howard government with a proposal to
upgrade the network further by progressively replacing copper to the node at
the end of the street with fibre.

Telstra told the government that the roll-out would begin in the major
capital cities and it would be financed 80 per cent from retained earnings
and 20 per cent from borrowings.

As with the other major upgrades of the network, there would be savings to
offset the costs.

Fibre would bypass Australia's 950 major exchanges, which would allow
Telstra to close them down and sell the properties, contributing about $2
billion to the cost of the broadband roll-out.

In other words, a win-win situation for the government and telephone users.

The complexity of the transition from copper to cable and the fragility of
the ducts that take the cable mean that the only way in which diabolical
complications can be avoided that lead to days or even weeks where customers
are without telephones is if the task is done by the outfit with the
knowledge gained by building and maintaining the network - that is Telstra.

But the problem the Howard government was not prepared to confront was that
by bypassing the exchanges, it would put Telstra's competitors out of
businesses.

The proposition put up by Telstra should have been seen for what it was - a
bonus.

It was not seen that way. The Government bought the line that competition in
telecommunications drives down prices. It doesn't.

It is technological change, leading to investment, financed by monopoly
profits that drives down costs and improves services. Prices can be
regulated.

The competitors are arbitragers. They make money cherry-picking the most
profitable customers and getting access to the Telstra network cheaply and
reselling it more expensively.

In the cities they access the network for $15 a line and rent it out for
$30. In the bush the cost of a line is $34.

It is no accident that none of Telstra's competitors have attempted to
capture any bush customers from Telstra.

The arbitragers have never been in the business of cross-subsidising the
bush and never will no matter what arrangements will apply if the national
broadband network legislation to split Telstra gets through the Senate with
the help of two National Party senators.

Communications Minister Stephen Conroy said that the wholesale price of a
line on the national broadband network will range from $40 to $70 a month.
To this must be added the retailer's costs and mark-up.

This means that rental charges for an equivalent standard telephone will be
$60 to $90 a month or at least double the cost now.

The 2 million customers - equivalent to 20 per cent of the fixed-line
customers - who only want a basic, fixed-line service will migrate to the
mobile service.

The capital cost of this fiasco will remain the same irrespective of the
number of paying customers, meaning the cost of servicing this debt will
have to be 20 per cent higher for each remaining customer.

Even the most superficial business case or cost benefit analysis for this -
the most expensive infrastructure project in Australia's history - would
show that it has no merit whatsoever, especially as the only entity with the
capability to build broadband will be destroyed in the process.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2009, 12:51 AM
annily
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

Aussie Bob wrote:
> From
> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html
>
>
> WE MUST be mad. Telstra is obliged under the universal service
> obligation to offer telephone customers a basic telephony service for
> $30 a month. The Rudd Government wants to replace this with a new
> service - the national broadband network - which on the most favourable
> assumptions will cost customers $60 to $70 a month for a basic telephone
> service.
>
> And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra copper
> wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.
>


Is that really true? If it is, I hope Parliament (i.e. The Senate)
wouldn't be stupid enough to pass it. I assumed the NBN was to be in
addition to the existing copper network.

--
Long-time resident of Adelaide, South Australia,
which may or may not influence my opinions.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:51 AM
David Segall
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

annily <annily@ihopethisdoesntexist.com> wrote:

>Aussie Bob wrote:
>> From
>> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html
>>
>>
>> WE MUST be mad. Telstra is obliged under the universal service
>> obligation to offer telephone customers a basic telephony service for
>> $30 a month. The Rudd Government wants to replace this with a new
>> service - the national broadband network - which on the most favourable
>> assumptions will cost customers $60 to $70 a month for a basic telephone
>> service.
>>
>> And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra copper
>> wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.
>>

>
>Is that really true? If it is, I hope Parliament (i.e. The Senate)
>wouldn't be stupid enough to pass it. I assumed the NBN was to be in
>addition to the existing copper network.


What benefit is there in maintaining both networks? Just selling the
land occupied by the current telephone exchanges will pay a
substantial portion of the cost of the fibre network. New Zealand is
going to close 600 of its 700 telephone exchanges
<http://tinyurl.com/llah23>.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:14 AM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

Woggy Blob wrote

> From
> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html


> WE MUST be mad.


Speak for yourself.

> Telstra is obliged under the universal service obligation to offer telephone customers a basic telephony service for>
> $30 a month.


It isnt as black and white as that.

> The Rudd Government wants to replace this with a new service - the national broadband network -


Like hell it does. The NBN only covers 90% of customers.

> which on the most favourable assumptions will cost customers $60 to $70 a month for a basic telephone service.


You dont know that either.

> And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra
> copper wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.


Or that either. They cant do that if Telstra refuses to have any part of that.

> This is called levelling the playing field for fair competition.


You're lying now.

> But this is not the end of the gouging of Australian telephone users.


You dont know that either. In spades with those who choose to use voip over the NBN.

> In their capacity as taxpayers they will have to compensate Telstra shareholders for the loss of the ''free
> revenue'' - estimated to be about $3.5 billion a year profit from the fixed network.


Another claim and number straight from your arse, we can tell from the smell.

> The Government will be up for an up-front payment of between $17 billion and $35 billion (depending on whether the
> profit flow is discounted by 10 per cent or 20 per cent) if it wants to give fair compensation to Telstra
> shareholders.


Another number straight from your arse, we can tell from the smell.

> It doesn't.


It has no choice on that, legally.

> Under the current arrangements, not all of that $3.5 billion is passed on to Telstra shareholders as dividends.


Must be one of those rocket scientist fuckwits.

> In fact, most of that money is reinvested in the network.


PIgs arse it is.

> The network has been built over 100 years. It came out of the retained earnings of the Post Master General/
> Telecom/Telstra and has been progressively upgraded.


Must be one of those rocket scientist fuckwits.

> In the past 30 years this has involved the replacement of manual
> exchanges with automatic exchanges and digitisation of the network.
> This work has been funded largely out of retained earnings from customers


Yep.

> and the massive savings from the opportunity to cut staff by more than 40,000.


Nope.

> In 2005 Telstra came to the then Howard government with a proposal to upgrade the network further by progressively
> replacing copper to the node at the end of the street with fibre.


Utterly mangled.

> Telstra told the government that the roll-out would begin in the major capital cities and it would be financed 80 per
> cent from retained earnings and 20 per cent from borrowings.


And demanded no govt say on what prices they could
charge for access to that and elimination of competition too.

For some strange reason the govt told them to go and fuck themselves.

> As with the other major upgrades of the network, there would be savings to offset the costs.


Nope.

> Fibre would bypass Australia's 950 major exchanges, which would allow Telstra to close them down and sell the
> properties, contributing about $2 billion to the cost of the broadband roll-out.


Wrong, as always.

> In other words, a win-win situation for the government and telephone users.


Wrong, as always.

> The complexity of the transition from copper to cable and the
> fragility of the ducts that take the cable mean that the only way in which diabolical complications can be avoided
> that lead to days or even weeks where customers are without telephones is if the task is done by the outfit with the
> knowledge gained by building and maintaining the network - that is Telstra.


Wrong, as always.

> But the problem the Howard government was not prepared to confront was that by bypassing the exchanges, it would put
> Telstra's competitors out of businesses.


Utterly mangled all over again.

> The proposition put up by Telstra should have been seen for what it was - a bonus.


Wrong, as always.

> It was not seen that way. The Government bought the line that
> competition in telecommunications drives down prices. It doesn't.


Wota terminal fuckwit.

> It is technological change, leading to investment, financed by monopoly profits that drives down costs and improves
> services.


Wrong, as always.

> Prices can be regulated.


Telstra wasnt prepared to do FTTN with regulated prices, fuckwit.

> The competitors are arbitragers. They make money cherry-picking the most profitable customers and getting access to
> the Telstra network cheaply and reselling it more expensively.


Wota terminal fuckwit.

> In the cities they access the network for $15 a line and rent it out for $30. In the bush the cost of a line is $34.


Utterly mangled all over again.

> It is no accident that none of Telstra's competitors have attempted to capture any bush customers from Telstra.


Bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> The arbitragers


You wouldnt know what a real arbitrager was if one bit you on your lard arse, child.

> have never been in the business of cross-subsidising the bush


Bare faced pig ignorant lie. Optarse does that in spades with mobiles.

> and never will no matter what arrangements will apply if the
> national broadband network legislation to split Telstra gets through the Senate with the help of two National Party
> senators.


Not a fucking hope in hell, you watch.

> Communications Minister Stephen Conroy said that the wholesale price of a line on the national broadband network will
> range from $40 to $70 a month.


Bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> To this must be added the retailer's costs and mark-up.


Bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> This means that rental charges for an equivalent standard telephone
> will be $60 to $90 a month or at least double the cost now.


Bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> The 2 million customers - equivalent to 20 per cent of the fixed-line
> customers - who only want a basic, fixed-line service will migrate to
> the mobile service.


They wont need to when the govt doesnt get to rip out the copper lines.

> The capital cost of this fiasco will remain the same irrespective of
> the number of paying customers, meaning the cost of servicing this
> debt will have to be 20 per cent higher for each remaining customer.


Bare faced pig ignorant lie.

> Even the most superficial business case or cost benefit analysis for this - the most expensive infrastructure project
> in Australia's
> history - would show that it has no merit whatsoever,


Bare faced pig ignorant lie. In spades if the govt just
spends what it got from flogging off Telstra on the NBN.

> especially as the only entity with the capability to build broadband will be destroyed in the process.


Bare faced pig ignorant lie.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:17 AM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

annily wrote:
> Aussie Bob wrote:
>> From
>> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html
>>
>>
>> WE MUST be mad. Telstra is obliged under the universal service
>> obligation to offer telephone customers a basic telephony service for
>> $30 a month. The Rudd Government wants to replace this with a new
>> service - the national broadband network - which on the most
>> favourable assumptions will cost customers $60 to $70 a month for a
>> basic telephone service.
>>
>> And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra
>> copper wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.


> Is that really true?


Nope, its just what Conroy has wet dreams about that wont get thru the Senate.

> If it is, I hope Parliament (i.e. The Senate) wouldn't be stupid enough to pass it.


And the wont, you watch.

> I assumed the NBN was to be in addition to the existing copper network.


Nar, that fuckwit Conroy does want to replace the copper network
with the NBN, because otherwise fuck all would bother with the NBN
when they can get a very decent broadband service much cheaper
on the copper network.



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:19 AM
Rod Speed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

David Segall wrote:
> annily <annily@ihopethisdoesntexist.com> wrote:
>
>> Aussie Bob wrote:
>>> From
>>> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html
>>>
>>>
>>> WE MUST be mad. Telstra is obliged under the universal service
>>> obligation to offer telephone customers a basic telephony service
>>> for $30 a month. The Rudd Government wants to replace this with a
>>> new service - the national broadband network - which on the most
>>> favourable assumptions will cost customers $60 to $70 a month for a
>>> basic telephone service.
>>>
>>> And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra
>>> copper wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.
>>>

>>
>> Is that really true? If it is, I hope Parliament (i.e. The Senate)
>> wouldn't be stupid enough to pass it. I assumed the NBN was to be in
>> addition to the existing copper network.


> What benefit is there in maintaining both networks?


Much lower prices for those who are happy with the copper network service.

> Just selling the land occupied by the current telephone exchanges
> will pay a substantial portion of the cost of the fibre network.


You still need those.

> New Zealand is going to close 600 of its 700 telephone exchanges
> <http://tinyurl.com/llah23>.


Like hell it is. That never happened.



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:34 AM
atec 7 7
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

David Segall wrote:
> annily <annily@ihopethisdoesntexist.com> wrote:
>
>> Aussie Bob wrote:
>>> From
>>> http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...1101-hrjx.html
>>>
>>>
>>> WE MUST be mad. Telstra is obliged under the universal service
>>> obligation to offer telephone customers a basic telephony service for
>>> $30 a month. The Rudd Government wants to replace this with a new
>>> service - the national broadband network - which on the most favourable
>>> assumptions will cost customers $60 to $70 a month for a basic telephone
>>> service.
>>>
>>> And to ensure customers will take up the new service, the Telstra copper
>>> wires that enable the $30 a month service will be ripped up.
>>>

>> Is that really true? If it is, I hope Parliament (i.e. The Senate)
>> wouldn't be stupid enough to pass it. I assumed the NBN was to be in
>> addition to the existing copper network.

>
> What benefit is there in maintaining both networks? Just selling the
> land occupied by the current telephone exchanges will pay a
> substantial portion of the cost of the fibre network.

actually no , now where do yo prose to locate all the equipment

New Zealand is
> going to close 600 of its 700 telephone exchanges
> <http://tinyurl.com/llah23>.

liar

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2009, 09:27 PM
Core2Duo
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

Phil,
you should stop reading 'the age' & do some work.



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2009, 11:24 AM
Polly the Parrot
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:28:25 +0800, "Aussie Bob"
<aussiebobbot@telstra,com.au> wrote:

>WE MUST be mad.


Hey Bob Bot.

Is that the Royal "we"?

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2009, 11:36 AM
Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

Polly the Parrot wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:28:25 +0800, "Aussie Bob"
> <aussiebobbot@telstra,com.au> wrote:
>
>> WE MUST be mad.

>
> Hey Bob Bot.
>
> Is that the Royal "we"?


Dunno. Is a royal wee followed by a royal flush?

--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ipvdBnU8F8
- KRudd at his finest.

"The Labour Party is corrupt beyond redemption!"
- Labour hasbeen Mark Latham in a moment of honest clarity.

"This is the recession we had to have!"
- Paul Keating explaining why he gave Australia another Labour recession.

"Silly old bugger!"
- Well known ACTU pisspot and sometime Labour prime minister Bob Hawke
responding to a pensioner who dared ask for more.

"By 1990, no child will live in poverty"
- Bob Hawke again, desperate to win another election.

"A billion trees ..."
- Borke, pissed as a newt again.

"Well may we say 'God save the Queen' because nothing will save the governor
general!"
- Egotistical shithead and pompous fuckwit E.G. Whitlam whining about his
appointee for Governor General John Kerr.

"SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DUMB CUNT!"
- FlangesBum on learning the truth about Labour's economic capabilities.

"I don't care what you fuckers think!"
- KRudd the KRude at his finest again.

"We'll just change it all when we get in."
- Garrett the carrott

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2009, 02:47 PM
Polly the Parrot
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Competition is gouging phone users

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:36:37 +1100, "Dr. Sir John Howard, AC, WSCMoF"
<""noujwas\"@yahoo.com ."> wrote:

>Polly the Parrot wrote:
>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 06:28:25 +0800, "Aussie Bob"
>> <aussiebobbot@telstra,com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> WE MUST be mad.

>>
>> Hey Bob Bot.
>>
>> Is that the Royal "we"?

>
>Dunno. Is a royal wee followed by a royal flush?


Flush Bob Bot away, that's for sure!

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