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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 01:29 AM
brian w edginton
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Default Emergency calls.

In the past week or so, police on the North Coast of NSW had a rash of
furphy calls to 000 in the Wardell area. Domestic disputes and such.
Traced to a stolen mobile phone.
Seems more than one person made the calls.
Heard (on the scanner) that the calls were being made without a SIM.
I guess the owner had the account closed or something.
I gather the perps were turning the phone off between calls.
Until Thursday or Friday. Heard a report that the idiots had been
caught because they had left the handset on.
Seemed to take minutes from the latest call..

Am guessing that the cops knew who was responsible but wanted to catch
them with the stolen handset.
Possibly had a triangulation setup going???.

Any tech stuff for a non-tech old fart?


--------------------------------------------

If you want to win an argument, it is best to
stick to the truth.
Or provable untruths.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 04:38 AM
Graeme Willox
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

brian w edginton wrote:
> In the past week or so, police on the North Coast of NSW had a rash of
> furphy calls to 000 in the Wardell area. Domestic disputes and such.
> Traced to a stolen mobile phone.
> Seems more than one person made the calls.
> Heard (on the scanner) that the calls were being made without a SIM.
> I guess the owner had the account closed or something.
> I gather the perps were turning the phone off between calls.
> Until Thursday or Friday. Heard a report that the idiots had been
> caught because they had left the handset on.
> Seemed to take minutes from the latest call..
>
> Am guessing that the cops knew who was responsible but wanted to catch
> them with the stolen handset.
> Possibly had a triangulation setup going???.
>
> Any tech stuff for a non-tech old fart?
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> If you want to win an argument, it is best to
> stick to the truth.
> Or provable untruths.


I don't know much about what law enforcement actually did. Heaps of
calls go to emergency services without sim cards. What these fools
don't know is that even without a sim card, the handset can still be
identified. The difference is that the phone companies need to look it
up manually.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 07:28 AM
Michael J
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Default Re: Emergency calls.


"brian w edginton" <edgo.2@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:qcmc431avr66gtb6d2buagf8uqladcp18j@4ax.com...
> In the past week or so, police on the North Coast of NSW had a rash of
> furphy calls to 000 in the Wardell area. Domestic disputes and such.
> Traced to a stolen mobile phone.
> Seems more than one person made the calls.
> Heard (on the scanner) that the calls were being made without a SIM.


Then it would be calls to 112, not 000.

> I gather the perps were turning the phone off between calls.
> Until Thursday or Friday. Heard a report that the idiots had been
> caught because they had left the handset on.
> Seemed to take minutes from the latest call..


Good-o.

> Am guessing that the cops knew who was responsible but wanted to catch
> them with the stolen handset.
> Possibly had a triangulation setup going???.


Yep.




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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 07:28 AM
Michael J
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

> I don't know much about what law enforcement actually did. Heaps of calls
> go to emergency services without sim cards. What these fools


Hardly anyone uses 112 from a mobile without a SIM card





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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 08:13 AM
Simon Templar
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Michael J wrote:
> Then it would be calls to 112, not 000.


You will find most phones will dial 112, 000 and even 911 without a SIM
card in Australia. These numbers can usually be dialled when the keypad
is locked as well and in effect are set to go to 000 anyway.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 08:38 AM
Lone Wolf
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 17:13:00 +1000, Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net>
wrote:

>You will find most phones will dial 112, 000 and even 911 without a SIM
>card in Australia. These numbers can usually be dialled when the keypad
>is locked as well and in effect are set to go to 000 anyway.


I get a stupid message on my Palm Treo 650 in this regard.

A warning that no network is found - Emergency calls only.

So how does this work?

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 09:09 AM
Simon Templar
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Lone Wolf wrote:
> I get a stupid message on my Palm Treo 650 in this regard.
>
> A warning that no network is found - Emergency calls only.
>
> So how does this work?


If you are out of range of your network but within range of another then
you are able to dial 112, 000 or 911 and the other network will accept
the call just as if there were no SIM card in the phone.




--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 09:14 AM
Lone Wolf
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 18:09:01 +1000, Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net>
wrote:

>If you are out of range of your network but within range of another then
>you are able to dial 112, 000 or 911 and the other network will accept
>the call just as if there were no SIM card in the phone.


OK, I get it. Thanks.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 11:31 AM
Peter
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

I gave my old mobile to my father who refuses to have one.
I wrote 112 on it and showed him how to turn it on and asked him to keep it
with his spare tire and the car charger.
Hope your right and he never needs to use it.

:-P

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 11:38 AM
Peter
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Triangulation can be achieved with the base stations assuming they were in
an area where there is a few located.

www.geomobiles.net

:-P

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2007, 12:57 PM
Paul Kean
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Except that 911 is NOT a valid emergency number in Australia.

Lone Wolf wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2007 18:09:01 +1000, Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>If you are out of range of your network but within range of another then
>>you are able to dial 112, 000 or 911 and the other network will accept
>>the call just as if there were no SIM card in the phone.

>
>
> OK, I get it. Thanks.


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 03:43 AM
Paul Day
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

On Sun, 13 May 2007 21:57:48 +1000 Paul Kean may have written:
> Except that 911 is NOT a valid emergency number in Australia.


Depends wether you class valid as "it'll work" or "it's officially
advertised as 'it'll work'".

PD

--
Paul Day

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 04:28 PM
Graeme Willox
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Paul Day wrote:
> On Sun, 13 May 2007 21:57:48 +1000 Paul Kean may have written:
>> Except that 911 is NOT a valid emergency number in Australia.

>
> Depends wether you class valid as "it'll work" or "it's officially
> advertised as 'it'll work'".
>
> PD
>


I've been told that support for 911 is built in to the handset firmware,
not the network.

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2007, 05:38 PM
Simon Templar
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Graeme Willox wrote:
> I've been told that support for 911 is built in to the handset firmware,
> not the network.


Yes, that is correct. The same way 112 and 000 is mapped into the
phone, it basically places a priority call to the network which then
accepts the request and handles the call. So here in Australia it is
directed to 000.

If needed the cell you place the call on will drop other calls in
progress to place your Emergency call.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2007, 05:15 AM
Graeme Willox
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Simon Templar wrote:
> Graeme Willox wrote:
>> I've been told that support for 911 is built in to the handset
>> firmware, not the network.

>
> Yes, that is correct. The same way 112 and 000 is mapped into the
> phone, it basically places a priority call to the network which then
> accepts the request and handles the call. So here in Australia it is
> directed to 000.


I think the main difference though is that whether a network feature or
handset feature, 112 is written into the GSM specs, whereas 000 and 911
aren't. Depending upon the origin of the handset, 000 or 911 may or may
not work, but 112 will always work on a GSM network.

>
> If needed the cell you place the call on will drop other calls in
> progress to place your Emergency call.
>
>



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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2007, 06:48 AM
John Henderson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

Graeme Willox wrote:

> I think the main difference though is that whether a network
> feature or handset feature, 112 is written into the GSM specs,
> whereas 000 and 911 aren't. Depending upon the origin of the
> handset, 000 or 911 may or may not work, but 112 will always
> work on a GSM network.


Just to add some extra redundancy, the 000/999/911 to 112 lookup
can done via the SIM as well.

All the numbers listed in the SIM's EF_ECC (emergency call
codes) file, at SIM address 6FB7 get mapped to 112. This is
the same for 2G GSM and 3G UMTS phones.

John

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2007, 02:22 PM
Pagey
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.


"John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote in message
news:5asvt7F2pjddpU1@mid.individual.net...
> Graeme Willox wrote:
>
>> I think the main difference though is that whether a network
>> feature or handset feature, 112 is written into the GSM specs,
>> whereas 000 and 911 aren't. Depending upon the origin of the
>> handset, 000 or 911 may or may not work, but 112 will always
>> work on a GSM network.

>
> Just to add some extra redundancy, the 000/999/911 to 112 lookup
> can done via the SIM as well.
>
> All the numbers listed in the SIM's EF_ECC (emergency call
> codes) file, at SIM address 6FB7 get mapped to 112. This is
> the same for 2G GSM and 3G UMTS phones.
>
> John


So how does the phone/network determine if the call is to "911" or
"911#####"?

If you dial three '0's by accident you get put through to emegrency (eg
00011 instead of 0011) - should this therefore also occur with '911'?

Pagey



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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2007, 09:11 PM
Simon Templar
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

On May 15, 11:22 pm, "Pagey" <adpage@invalid> wrote:
> So how does the phone/network determine if the call is to "911" or
> "911#####"?
>
> If you dial three '0's by accident you get put through to emegrency (eg
> 00011 instead of 0011) - should this therefore also occur with '911'?


The phone looks at the entire string of numbers before dialing, it
looks at the entire number rather than individual numbers. So I
expect only if you accidently dialled 00011 or similiar it would still
make the call but not as an Emergency call on the network so you would
not get any priority.

As John said it is best to dial 112 every time, it is the most
reliable of the lot and you can dial with the keypad locked. I always
use 112 from my mobile phone if I need to instead of 000.

Does anyone remember the 000 bug in the old Ericsson phones? You had
to dial 0000 to make sure they call would get through! That was the
time I owned my first and last Ericsson (crap), at least it got me
into the habit of dialling 112.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I
may belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.




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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2007, 09:49 PM
John Henderson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

Pagey wrote:

> So how does the phone/network determine if the call is to
> "911" or "911#####"?


The number has to be an exact match, on each digit, and on the
total number of digits.

In this respect it's different from a landline exchange. Once
upon a time, "1800" numbers were "008". Until that change,
lots of calls got misdirected to 000. Many people need to dial
a leading zero at work to get an outside line. If they
accidently dialled the extra zero at home when ringing a "008"
number, they got 000, regardless of number length.

John

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2007, 10:24 PM
Michael J
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.


"Pagey" <adpage@invalid> wrote in message
news:4649b40e$0$18244$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "John Henderson" <jhenRemoveThis@talk21.com> wrote in message
> news:5asvt7F2pjddpU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Graeme Willox wrote:
>>
>>> I think the main difference though is that whether a network
>>> feature or handset feature, 112 is written into the GSM specs,
>>> whereas 000 and 911 aren't. Depending upon the origin of the
>>> handset, 000 or 911 may or may not work, but 112 will always
>>> work on a GSM network.

>>
>> Just to add some extra redundancy, the 000/999/911 to 112 lookup
>> can done via the SIM as well.
>>
>> All the numbers listed in the SIM's EF_ECC (emergency call
>> codes) file, at SIM address 6FB7 get mapped to 112. This is
>> the same for 2G GSM and 3G UMTS phones.
>>
>> John

>
> So how does the phone/network determine if the call is to "911" or
> "911#####"?


Because its a mobile, it doesn't dial until you press send.



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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 02:52 AM
Peelah Ben Arhna
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Simon said....

> Does anyone remember the 000 bug in the old Ericsson phones? You had
> to dial 0000 to make sure they call would get through! That was the
> time I owned my first and last Ericsson (crap), at least it got me
> into the habit of dialling 112.


What, have you had to dial emergency services a lot?



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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 03:07 AM
Simon Templar
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

Peelah Ben Arhna wrote:
> What, have you had to dial emergency services a lot?


Yes, as a Security Officer and Volunteer in Emergency Services it is not
unusual to make calls to 000.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 09:19 AM
Matt
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.


"Simon Templar" <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote in message
news:5b74esF2s0ahoU2@mid.individual.net...
> Peelah Ben Arhna wrote:
>> What, have you had to dial emergency services a lot?

>
> Yes, as a Security Officer and Volunteer in Emergency Services it is not
> unusual to make calls to 000.


Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most certainly
hold no authority or command.



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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 01:40 PM
Simon Templar
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Matt wrote:
> Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most certainly
> hold no authority or command.


Did I say I did? Just that is not unusual for someone in my position to
make calls to 000.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 08:05 PM
Rod Speed
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote
> Matt wrote
>> Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote
>>> Peelah Ben Arhna wrote


>>>> What, have you had to dial emergency services a lot?


>>> Yes, as a Security Officer and Volunteer in Emergency Services it is not unusual to make calls
>>> to 000.


>> Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most certainly hold no authority or
>> command.


> Did I say I did? Just that is not unusual for someone in my position to make calls to 000.


He's sneering at your use of the word OFFICER, stupid.

And it should be APE anyway.



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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2007, 11:44 PM
Paul Day
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Default Re: Emergency calls.

On Sat, 19 May 2007 22:40:07 +1000 Simon Templar may have written:
> > Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most certainly
> > hold no authority or command.

>
> Did I say I did?


You implied it by your use of the word "officer".

PD

--
Paul Day

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:03 PM
Michael J
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Default Re: Emergency calls.


"Matt" <mattbv@invalid> wrote in message
news:464eb305$0$19665$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>
> "Simon Templar" <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote in message
> news:5b74esF2s0ahoU2@mid.individual.net...
>> Peelah Ben Arhna wrote:
>>> What, have you had to dial emergency services a lot?

>>
>> Yes, as a Security Officer and Volunteer in Emergency Services it is not
>> unusual to make calls to 000.

>
> Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most
> certainly hold no authority or command.


The word "officer" has no special connotations.




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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:03 PM
Michael J
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.


"Paul Day" <pauls@enigma.id.au> wrote in message
news:1179614754.431193@colossus.enigma.id.au...
> On Sat, 19 May 2007 22:40:07 +1000 Simon Templar may have written:
>> > Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most
>> > certainly
>> > hold no authority or command.

>>
>> Did I say I did?

>
> You implied it by your use of the word "officer".


Gee, I was a credit officer once.

Oh wait, should that be "credit consultant"?

Dick.



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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2007, 05:26 PM
Simon Templar
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

Michael J wrote:
> The word "officer" has no special connotations.


Nor was it meant to in my post, just some people like to play word games
to suit themselves.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2007, 08:52 PM
Rod Speed
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Emergency calls.

Michael J <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Matt" <mattbv@invalid> wrote in message
> news:464eb305$0$19665$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.a u...
>>
>> "Simon Templar" <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote in message
>> news:5b74esF2s0ahoU2@mid.individual.net...
>>> Peelah Ben Arhna wrote:
>>>> What, have you had to dial emergency services a lot?
>>>
>>> Yes, as a Security Officer and Volunteer in Emergency Services it
>>> is not unusual to make calls to 000.

>>
>> Security GUARD - you are not sworn into your position and you most
>> certainly hold no authority or command.

>
> The word "officer" has no special connotations.


Wrong, as always.



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