How competitive is the mobile market, really? And what does it take to conclude a sale?

Just dropped into a local Telstra shop. It has a "special" on allowing
people 18 months into their current 24 month contract to get a new mobile
provide that they have a Telstra landline product (Homeline Whatever) and
either Foxtel or Bigpond and will sign up for a 36mth contract. And that
all are billed together.

Anyway, I don't have Foxtel (I'm with Austar). I am not with Bigpond. So I
didn't "qualify". I discussed this with the kid who was prattling on about
how great Bigpond is and how cheap it is (for the first 12mths), etc..

Thing is, all I wanted was to replace my mobile which is starting to play
up - mostly battery problems. It has a few months to go. However, the kid
was either unwilling or unable to do some sort of deal where I could get
out of my current contract early and sign up with a new phone for however
long they wanted. He didn't really seem to care when I mentioned that I'll
wait and see, then. Optus is introducing its 3G service in rural areas and
maybe it will have some good deals going. Kid just shrugged his shoulders.

Obviously he doesn't work on commissions. Certainly he wouldn't last ten
minutes flogging cars.

What I might end up doing now is to let the contract lapse. In the
meantime I'll pick up the phone that I want off Ebay or whatever and when
the contract lapses I'll slot the pre-paid SIM (bought for the mother in
law while she was here visiting) into the new phone and top it up only
when it requires it to stop it expiring.

Now while it won't hurt Telstra, I'll go from paying say, $40 a month to
around $5 or maybe less. Thing is, if other customers do the same thing
then it soon adds up.

I'm no salesman but I thought that the idea was to make every person who
walks into your store a customer, not to let them walk and go elsewhere.

On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:21:01 +1100, Snapper <snapper1@y7mail.com>
wrote:

>I'm no salesman but I thought that the idea was to make every person who
>walks into your store a customer, not to let them walk and go elsewhere


True.
But not on terms the company doesn't find acceptable.
I suspect you were looking for a deal the store wasn't offering.

---------------------------------


Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't
needed, any more.

>
> I'm no salesman but I thought that the idea was to make every person who
> walks into your store a customer, not to let them walk and go elsewhere.
>

Nah! We try and sort out who is a fuckwitted, time wasting tyre kicker and
who is a likely prospect for a worthwhile sale.

brian w edginton wrote...

> But not on terms the company doesn't find acceptable.
> I suspect you were looking for a deal the store wasn't offering.

Or that the sales assistant wasn't capable of brokering.

When I called Telstra a few weeks ago asking about the payout figures for
our two phones, the woman put me through to another department called
something along the lines of the "customer loyalty dept.". The woman there
said that she could waive all but the last month of one of our phone's
contracts but only if I signed up for a new phone there and then.

The problem with that was that for one we don't know what phone that we
want, or rather, what my wife wants - it's her phone. So we couldn't make
a decision there and then.

In any case, they could do whatever deal that they wanted if it meant that
I would be locked into a 36 month contract. From what I've read most
consumers shy away from deals where there are extended lockin contract
periods. So I would have thought that they might've jumped at the prospect
of locking existing or even new customers into such a deal. I'm assuming
that the shops get a cut of the revenue via commissions or whatever from
all sales and contracts that they make. So, as I said, I would have
thought that getting a 36mth contract for the sake of a hundred bux or so,
of what my contract is remaining would've been too good an offer to pass
up.

Like when I said to the guy, "fair enough. I'll let the contract run to
the end. Optus is introducing its 3G network so when the time comes I'll
see what it has to offer." And as I said earlier the guy merely shrugged
his shoulders.

Doesn't matter, really. I'll keep an eye out for some bargains. And who
knows what the manufacturers will be releasing in the next 6 months, and
what the telcos will be doing too, particularly when CDMA closes and
Optus's 3G network gets going.



--
First things first, but not necessarily in that order.

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:01:45 +1100, Snapper <snapper1@y7mail.com>
wrote:

>Or that the sales assistant wasn't capable of brokering.


No.
The way you describe the situation, they were offering a deal on a
phone as an incentive to buy or continue services with Bigpond and
Telstra landline.
They were not selling a phone.....they were selling a package.
Seems you wanted the phone deal without the package.
Assistant was not in a position to "broker"....."haggle" in effect.

Kinda like going into a shop and seeing a sign that says "Buy One-Get
One Free" and telling the bloke you only need the free one.

If I misunderstood, I apologise.
I am, certainly, not a shill for Telstra. I have posted my feelings
for that organization, recently.
Simply, I don't believe your approach was reasonable.

----------------------------


Death is Nature's way of telling you you aren't
needed, any more.

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:01:45 +1100, Snapper wrote:

> brian w edginton wrote...
>
>> But not on terms the company doesn't find acceptable.
>> I suspect you were looking for a deal the store wasn't offering.
>
> Or that the sales assistant wasn't capable of brokering.
>
> When I called Telstra a few weeks ago asking about the payout figures for
> our two phones, the woman put me through to another department called
> something along the lines of the "customer loyalty dept.". The woman there
> said that she could waive all but the last month of one of our phone's
> contracts but only if I signed up for a new phone there and then.
>
> The problem with that was that for one we don't know what phone that we
> want, or rather, what my wife wants - it's her phone. So we couldn't make
> a decision there and then.

Why don't you call back, now that you know which handset you want?

brian w edginton wrote...

> The way you describe the situation, they were offering a deal on a
> phone as an incentive to buy or continue services with Bigpond and
> Telstra landline.
> They were not selling a phone.....they were selling a package.
> Seems you wanted the phone deal without the package.
> Assistant was not in a position to "broker"....."haggle" in effect.

We started to discuss the package. However when it was realised that I
wouldn't be taking up the Bigpond part of it then that is when it stalled.
The guy wouldn't even try to work out if we could do something in order to
get me another phone and incidentally, onto another contract for whatever
term.

Normally a salesperson has some leeway as to what they can negotiate. the
woman at the "loyalty dept" was certainly able to. Why not the sales staff
in the Telstra shops?

> Kinda like going into a shop and seeing a sign that says "Buy One-Get
> One Free" and telling the bloke you only need the free one.

No, nothing of the sort. I wasn't asking for a freebie, just a way to get
a new phone (and onto a new contract) without having to pay out all of the
remaining part of my existing contract.

My comments were on the guy's unwillingness or inability to "broker" a
deal. And I left, no sale for the chap.

Horry wrote...

> Why don't you call back, now that you know which handset you want?

She's decided on the N95. But we're not going onto a hundred bucks a month
plan for that. We'll wait til her contract has concluded then we'll look
around. In the meantime Ebay may have some bargains now that the N95 8 gig
is out. Unfortunately it's only 3G, not NextG according to the reviews,
which I wasn't aware of. So, maybe there'll be some bargains, or maybe
not.

Arty wrote...

> Nah! We try and sort out who is a fuckwitted, time wasting tyre kicker and
> who is a likely prospect for a worthwhile sale.

Well, I walked in expecting to walk out with a new phone and a new
contract, whether it be 18mths or 36mths or whatever. The guy didn't even
try to see what he could do, unlike most sales droids that I've ever had
to deal with, especially car salesmen and real estate agents.

But then, they're selling big ticket items not some trinket like a mobile
phone, which, as we've seen on Ebay, any dick with a cheap supplier of
goods can do...

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:13:29 +1100, Snapper wrote:

> Horry wrote...
>
>> Why don't you call back, now that you know which handset you want?
>
> She's decided on the N95. But we're not going onto a hundred bucks a month
> plan for that. We'll wait til her contract has concluded then we'll look
> around. In the meantime Ebay may have some bargains now that the N95 8 gig
> is out. Unfortunately it's only 3G, not NextG according to the reviews,
> which I wasn't aware of. So, maybe there'll be some bargains, or maybe
> not.

But surely any deal "brokered" by your T-Shop employee for the N95 would
also have involved "a hundred bucks a month plan"???

You just said you were "expecting to walk out with a new phone and a new
contract, whether it be 18mths or 36mths or whatever", and that you "just"
wanted "a way to get a new phone (and onto a new contract) without having
to pay out all of the remaining part of my existing contract".

Now you're saying you don't even want the deal you've been criticizing the
T-Shop employee for not offering you.

You've completely contradicted yourself.

Horry wrote...

> But surely any deal "brokered" by your T-Shop employee for the N95 would
> also have involved "a hundred bucks a month plan"???

I wasn't looking at an N95. I have said elsewhere that I expect to get one
online or whatever, not from a retailer.

I was looking at getting a Motorola V3xx (NextG) on a $30/mth plan

Snapper wrote:
> Horry wrote...
>
>> But surely any deal "brokered" by your T-Shop employee for the N95 would
>> also have involved "a hundred bucks a month plan"???
>
> I wasn't looking at an N95. I have said elsewhere that I expect to get one
> online or whatever, not from a retailer.
>
> I was looking at getting a Motorola V3xx (NextG) on a $30/mth plan

Why even bother signing up for another 24 month contract with a shit
phone that you will replace with a phone you purchase on eBay?

These 24 month contracts are CRAP. There is something seriously wrong
with the telecommunications market where they think they have to lock
victims into such a long contract, where they should be providing a
service that people want to stay with them.

They are just holding us to ransom whith this shit!


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

Arty wrote:
>> I'm no salesman but I thought that the idea was to make every person who
>> walks into your store a customer, not to let them walk and go elsewhere.
>>
>
> Nah! We try and sort out who is a fuckwitted, time wasting tyre kicker and
> who is a likely prospect for a worthwhile sale.

Come in spinner! More like you look for suckers that are so fucking
stupid as not realise you are bending them over the counter and giving
it to them!


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

Simon Templar wrote...

> Why even bother signing up for another 24 month contract with a shit
> phone that you will replace with a phone you purchase on eBay?

If the V3 is a shit phone what would you recommend as an alternative? It
would need to be a flip phone, it needs to be able to synchronise with
Outlook's calendar and contacts databases, it needs to be able to have
unlimited calendar entries and they need to be variably recuring. That is,
an appointment needs to be recuring on a user configured basis, not merely
"every day", "every week", "every month", etc.

> These 24 month contracts are CRAP. There is something seriously wrong

I s'pose it allows people to purchase phones that otherwise they may not
be able to spare the cash for.

If I buy a phone outright, and Michael reckons that we're crazy if we do,
then when my current contract expires it will be converted to something
that's more in line with my call spending. Perhaps a $10 or a $20 a month
plan. Or I might even go pre-paid.

Snapper wrote:
> I s'pose it allows people to purchase phones that otherwise they may not
> be able to spare the cash for.

They end up paying for it big time with the lengthy contracts,
especially when the phone does not last for the duration of the contract!

> If I buy a phone outright, and Michael reckons that we're crazy if we do,
> then when my current contract expires it will be converted to something
> that's more in line with my call spending. Perhaps a $10 or a $20 a month
> plan. Or I might even go pre-paid.

Owning a phone outright gives you the flexibility to make such choices
and you are not locked into a contract that does not suit your
requirements later on.

Unfortunately there still seems to be a certain level of descrimination
against pre-paid, which I think is very unfair. For example Three does
not allow Internet usage on pre-paid.

Pre-paid shouldn't be descriminated this way considering there is no
risk whith revenue, as if you don't have credit then you don't use it.
Where as how many people run up massive bills on contract and the
carrier losses the lot!


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:54:35 +1100, Simon Templar wrote:

> Snapper wrote:
>> I s'pose it allows people to purchase phones that otherwise they may not
>> be able to spare the cash for.
>
> They end up paying for it big time with the lengthy contracts,
> especially when the phone does not last for the duration of the contract!
>
>> If I buy a phone outright, and Michael reckons that we're crazy if we do,
>> then when my current contract expires it will be converted to something
>> that's more in line with my call spending. Perhaps a $10 or a $20 a month
>> plan. Or I might even go pre-paid.
>
> Owning a phone outright gives you the flexibility to make such choices
> and you are not locked into a contract that does not suit your
> requirements later on.
>
> Unfortunately there still seems to be a certain level of descrimination
> against pre-paid, which I think is very unfair. For example Three does
> not allow Internet usage on pre-paid.
>
> Pre-paid shouldn't be descriminated this way considering there is no
> risk whith revenue, as if you don't have credit then you don't use it.
> Where as how many people run up massive bills on contract and the
> carrier losses the lot!

Three prevents prepaid customers from using mobile data because it can't
monitor data usage in real-time. There's a 24-48 hour lag. In other
words, Three has no way to allow prepaid customers access to mobile data
without running the risk that they'll use more data than their "available
credit" entitles them to.

That's the reason why 3 doesn't allow Internet usage on prepaid.

"Horry" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:11upbg44hl4u7.1g7j34x4udpug.dlg@40tude.net...

> Three prevents prepaid customers from using mobile data because it can't
> monitor data usage in real-time. There's a 24-48 hour lag. In other
> words, Three has no way to allow prepaid customers access to mobile data
> without running the risk that they'll use more data than their "available
> credit" entitles them to.

Telstra used to have the same limitation with sms on prepaid. It was
possible (and actually happened) that people with $5.00 credit would run up
a couple of hundred dollars of SMS within a day. The debt was wiped
automatically during the billing cycle.

--
Kwyj.

Horry wrote:
> Three prevents prepaid customers from using mobile data because it can't
> monitor data usage in real-time. There's a 24-48 hour lag. In other
> words, Three has no way to allow prepaid customers access to mobile data
> without running the risk that they'll use more data than their "available
> credit" entitles them to.
>
> That's the reason why 3 doesn't allow Internet usage on prepaid.

That really is a cop out, people have been asking 3 for a long time to
have pre-paid Internet. They should get off their arse and do it!


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
bleong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:56:14 +1100, Kwyjibo wrote:

> "Horry" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11upbg44hl4u7.1g7j34x4udpug.dlg@40tude.net...
>
>> Three prevents prepaid customers from using mobile data because it can't
>> monitor data usage in real-time. There's a 24-48 hour lag. In other
>> words, Three has no way to allow prepaid customers access to mobile data
>> without running the risk that they'll use more data than their "available
>> credit" entitles them to.
>
> Telstra used to have the same limitation with sms on prepaid. It was
> possible (and actually happened) that people with $5.00 credit would run up
> a couple of hundred dollars of SMS within a day. The debt was wiped
> automatically during the billing cycle.

Yeah, I know. Someone suggested setting up a recurring, automated Bpay
payment into their Telstra Prepaid account of $1 per day.

It effectively gave you unlimited SMS for $30 per month (which seems like a
lot, but it's only 4 SMS a day -- and, as you implied, some people send
hundreds each day).

"Simon Templar" <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote in message
news:64ok5lF2bhbk5U1@mid.individual.net...

|
| --
| The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
| bleong to.
|
| 73 de Simon, VK3XEM.




bleong ?

Simon Templar wrote...

> Unfortunately there still seems to be a certain level of descrimination
> against pre-paid, which I think is very unfair. For example Three does
> not allow Internet usage on pre-paid.

I have a pre-paid NextG SIM card here. Seems to access the 'net OK.

"Simon Templar" <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote in message
news:64ltrlF2c5sjtU1@mid.individual.net...
> Snapper wrote:
>> Horry wrote...
>>
>>> But surely any deal "brokered" by your T-Shop employee for the N95 would
>>> also have involved "a hundred bucks a month plan"???
>>
>> I wasn't looking at an N95. I have said elsewhere that I expect to get
>> one
>> online or whatever, not from a retailer.
>>
>> I was looking at getting a Motorola V3xx (NextG) on a $30/mth plan
>
> Why even bother signing up for another 24 month contract with a shit phone
> that you will replace with a phone you purchase on eBay?

Because the length of the contract is really irrelevant, many people buy
phones without intended to keep them for contract length

> These 24 month contracts are CRAP. There is something seriously wrong
> with the telecommunications market where they think they have to lock
> victims into such a long contract, where they should be providing a
> service that people want to stay with them.

Its what customers want, otherwise they would stop buying them on contracts

> If I buy a phone outright, and Michael reckons that we're crazy if we do,

No, you are crazy to buy one from Telstra outright

> then when my current contract expires it will be converted to something
> that's more in line with my call spending. Perhaps a $10 or a $20 a month
> plan. Or I might even go pre-paid.
>
>

> Unfortunately there still seems to be a certain level of descrimination
> against pre-paid, which I think is very unfair. For example Three does
> not allow Internet usage on pre-paid.

They are technological issues, not choices

> Pre-paid shouldn't be descriminated this way considering there is no risk
> whith revenue, as if you don't have credit then you don't use it.

But you arent locked in, so you could piss off tomorrow.

You arent commited to them (and therefore they arent commited to you)

"Kwyjibo" <kwyjibo@ozdebate.remove.com> wrote in message
news:13ue62h1k8bbp5d@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Horry" <horacewachope@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:11upbg44hl4u7.1g7j34x4udpug.dlg@40tude.net...
>
>> Three prevents prepaid customers from using mobile data because it can't
>> monitor data usage in real-time. There's a 24-48 hour lag. In other
>> words, Three has no way to allow prepaid customers access to mobile data
>> without running the risk that they'll use more data than their "available
>> credit" entitles them to.
>
> Telstra used to have the same limitation with sms on prepaid. It was
> possible (and actually happened) that people with $5.00 credit would run
> up a couple of hundred dollars of SMS within a day. The debt was wiped
> automatically during the billing cycle.

Sometimes hundreds of dollars worth :-)

RIP Prepayment.

Michael wrote...

> > These 24 month contracts are CRAP. There is something seriously wrong
> > with the telecommunications market where they think they have to lock
> > victims into such a long contract, where they should be providing a
> > service that people want to stay with them.
>
> Its what customers want, otherwise they would stop buying them on contracts

Presumably this is because of the initial high cost of phones if they had
to purchase them outright from the start. Much like why Harvey Norman and
other retailers heavily push those interest free credit terms that
invariably never get paid out on time and people end up paying 30 percent
interest on their plasmas and other consumer goods.

"Snapper" <snapper1@y7mail.com> wrote in message
news:0338bc48$0$14496$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Michael wrote...
>
>> > These 24 month contracts are CRAP. There is something seriously wrong
>> > with the telecommunications market where they think they have to lock
>> > victims into such a long contract, where they should be providing a
>> > service that people want to stay with them.
>>
>> Its what customers want, otherwise they would stop buying them on
>> contracts
>
> Presumably this is because of the initial high cost of phones if they had
> to purchase them outright from the start. Much like why Harvey Norman and
> other retailers heavily push those interest free credit terms that
> invariably never get paid out on time and people end up paying 30 percent
> interest on their plasmas and other consumer goods.

Exactly. Customers are stupid.
>
>
>