On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap and
consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you have missed
the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No wonder why Coonan
chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any Federal
money for broadband expansions.
"thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap
> and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you have
> missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No wonder why
> Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any
> Federal money for broadband expansions.
generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
- i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just
9xxx . . .
- i cant dial certain 13 numbers
- incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
mindless levels of complications and faults
Then, you have a hard wired phone
it rings, you pick it up, you talk
when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote
> thegoons <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote
>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap and consumers whould avoid it like the
>> plague. Sorry Telstra,
>> you have missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever.
>> No wonder why Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any Federal money for broadband
>> expansions.
> generally, it is crap.
Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
> its an immature product.
Its perfectly viable when the service provider knows what they are doing.
> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just 9xxx . . .
> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
You get that with the POTS service too, fuckwit.
> mindless levels of complications and faults
Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
> Then, you have a hard wired phone
> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
Not always.
> when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
"Michael" <michael@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TqFNi.6059$H22.643@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>
> when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
>
>
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:54:59 +0000, Michael wrote:
> "thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>> crap and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you
>> have missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No
>> wonder why Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in
>> again at any Federal money for broadband expansions.
>
> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
It's nowhere near as immature as that oaf Trujillo!
But, in fact, it's not at all immature. VOIP (as opposed to internet
telephony) is widely used in many large corporations and works
faultlessly.
> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like - i cant get through to a local
> number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just 9xxx . . .
> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
Pretty much the same sort of thing as what you'll find in the broadband
forums - would you describe *that* as an immature technology? All sorts
of people have difficulties with all forms of technology. That's just the
way it is.
What about cars? There's plenty of people who similar sorts of faults
with their cars - i suppose you'd describe motor cars as an "immature
technology", would you?
> mindless levels of complications and faults
Rather like Tel$cum in general then, ey?
> Then, you have a hard wired phone
>
> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
>
> when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
There's plenty of times when ADSL works on someone's line, but the phone
doesn't - in those cases, internet telephony (which clowns like you will
insist on referring to as "VOIP") is more reliable than POTS.
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:54:59 GMT in aus.comms.mobile Michael may have written:
> > On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap
> > and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you have
> > missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No wonder why
> > Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any
> > Federal money for broadband expansions.
>
> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
You must be getting quite the tan in that rock you've been living under
there Michael...
On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:52:31 +1000, thegoons wrote:
> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap
Well, that's not exactly what it's saying. It's saying Skype is crap -
and skype *is* crap, for various reasons.
They're trying to extend problems with skype to all forms of internet
telephony by implication, of course. But that blog post doesn't really
say anything much at all about internet telephony other than skype.
Anyway, as one comment says:
"Why isn't Telstra talking up products that deliver on the potential of
the new tech, instead of attempting to turn people off?"
Telstra is hardly the first company ever to say bad things about technology
that threatens to put it out of business. At least be glad we dont live in
a country with a monopoly carrier who has the power to get the government
to ban VoIP (as is the case in e.g. some South American countries)
Will Kemp <Will@xxxx.Swaggie.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:52:31 +1000, thegoons wrote:
>
>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>> crap
>
> Well, that's not exactly what it's saying. It's saying Skype is crap -
> and skype *is* crap, for various reasons.
>
> They're trying to extend problems with skype to all forms of internet
> telephony by implication, of course. But that blog post doesn't really
> say anything much at all about internet telephony other than skype.
>
> Anyway, as one comment says:
>
> "Why isn't Telstra talking up products that deliver on the potential
> of the new tech, instead of attempting to turn people off?"
>
> Why indeed???
Because that would fuck their revenue stream very comprehensively indeed.
Will Kemp <Will@xxxx.Swaggie.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:52:31 +1000, thegoons wrote:
>
>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>> crap
>
> Well, that's not exactly what it's saying. It's saying Skype is crap -
> and skype *is* crap, for various reasons.
>
> They're trying to extend problems with skype to all forms of internet
> telephony by implication, of course. But that blog post doesn't really
> say anything much at all about internet telephony other than skype.
>
> Anyway, as one comment says:
>
> "Why isn't Telstra talking up products that deliver on the potential
> of the new tech, instead of attempting to turn people off?"
>
> Why indeed???
Because that would fuck their revenue stream very comprehensively indeed.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5mon18Feg1o1U1@mid.individual.net...
: Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote
: > thegoons <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote
:
: >> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
crap and consumers whould avoid it like the
: >> plague. Sorry Telstra,
: >> you have missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever.
: >> No wonder why Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a
look-in again at any Federal money for broadband
: >> expansions.
:
: > generally, it is crap.
:
: Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
:
: > its an immature product.
:
: Its perfectly viable when the service provider knows what they are doing.
:
: > go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
: > - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of
just 9xxx . . .
: > - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
: > - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
:
: You get that with the POTS service too, fuckwit.
:
: > mindless levels of complications and faults
:
: Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
:
: > Then, you have a hard wired phone
:
: > it rings, you pick it up, you talk
:
: Not always.
:
: > when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
:
: Not always.
Telstra misguided propaganda. I have to agree with Rod. I've had Engin on
cable for a long time, and no landline. It works so well, no one knows the
difference. I get a locally assigned number for people to call me on, I pick
up my standard cordless phone which has the base unit plugged into the wall
as per normal, but leading to my Engin box.
If I want to call emergency, they know where I am because of my local
assigned number that Engin gave me. If the power or cable goes down, well,
shock, horror, it diverts to my voicemail. And if I need to call out while
it's down (which has never happened while I was home), I guess I'd use my
mobile.
Visitors who use my phone don't even realise it is VOIP unless I tell them
afterwards, and most don't belive it until they see the Engin unit, tucked
up on a shelf in the walk in robe, alongside the router and modem. And even
then some think its a trick, until I flick the Engin box power off and tell
them to try to call out on the cordless in thier hand.
Michael wrote:
> "thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap
>> and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you have
>> missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No wonder why
>> Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any
>> Federal money for broadband expansions.
>
> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
>
> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just
> 9xxx . . .
> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
Never ever had any of those problems, fuckwit. Simply get a VoIP box
pre-configured straight from your provider, you terminal fuckwit.
Michael wrote:
> "thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap
>> and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you have
>> missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No wonder why
>> Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any
>> Federal money for broadband expansions.
>
> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
>
> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just
> 9xxx . . .
> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
Never ever had any of those problems, fuckwit. Simply get a VoIP box
pre-configured straight from your provider, you terminal fuckwit.
>> its an immature product.
>
> Its perfectly viable when the service provider knows what they are doing.
And clearly many of them dont know what they are doing. Reminds me of the
days of callback services, 5-10 years ago
>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
>> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of
>> just 9xxx . . .
>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>
> You get that with the POTS service too, fuckwit.
Hardly.
>> mindless levels of complications and faults
>
> Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
Even a fool can make and receive a call on a POTS service, Roddles. VOIP
should just work, in the same fashion.
Indeed now you can attach hardwire-like phones that just work like a normal
phone (or should)
>> Then, you have a hard wired phone
>
>> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
>
> Not always.
99.99999% of the time
>> when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
>
> Not always.
"Will Kemp" <Will@xxxx.Swaggie.net> wrote in message
news:47073488$0$3579$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:54:59 +0000, Michael wrote:
>
>> "thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>> news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>>> crap and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you
>>> have missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No
>>> wonder why Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in
>>> again at any Federal money for broadband expansions.
>>
>> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
>
> It's nowhere near as immature as that oaf Trujillo!
>
> But, in fact, it's not at all immature. VOIP (as opposed to internet
> telephony) is widely used in many large corporations and works
> faultlessly.
With vast numbers of people supporting it. Joe Blow hasnt got a chance
>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like - i cant get through to a local
>> number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just 9xxx . . .
>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>
> Pretty much the same sort of thing as what you'll find in the broadband
> forums - would you describe *that* as an immature technology? All sorts
> of people have difficulties with all forms of technology. That's just the
> way it is.
Yet no one seems to have trouble with the POTS network
>> Then, you have a hard wired phone
>>
>> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
>>
>> when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
>
> There's plenty of times when ADSL works on someone's line, but the phone
> doesn't - in those cases, internet telephony (which clowns like you will
> insist on referring to as "VOIP") is more reliable than POTS.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5mq802Fep4s3U1@mid.individual.net...
> Will Kemp <Will@xxxx.Swaggie.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:52:31 +1000, thegoons wrote:
>>
>>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>>> crap
>>
>> Well, that's not exactly what it's saying. It's saying Skype is crap -
>> and skype *is* crap, for various reasons.
>>
>> They're trying to extend problems with skype to all forms of internet
>> telephony by implication, of course. But that blog post doesn't really
>> say anything much at all about internet telephony other than skype.
>>
>> Anyway, as one comment says:
>>
>> "Why isn't Telstra talking up products that deliver on the potential
>> of the new tech, instead of attempting to turn people off?"
>>
>> Why indeed???
>
> Because that would fuck their revenue stream very comprehensively indeed.
Of course.
You cant expect them to cannabalise that. They cannabilise that, then
broadband and mobiles prices will go up to get that revenue back
"James Bell" <jamesbell@tellthetruthtelstra.com.au> wrote in message
news:470855e2$0$23796$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
> Michael wrote:
>> "thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>> news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is crap
>>> and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra, you have
>>> missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than ever. No wonder why
>>> Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER get a look-in again at any
>>> Federal money for broadband expansions.
>>
>> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
>>
>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
>> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of
>> just 9xxx . . .
>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>
> Never ever had any of those problems, fuckwit. Simply get a VoIP box
> pre-configured straight from your provider, you terminal fuckwit.
Sorry fuckwit, I dont use VOIP, its an immature technology.
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:18:57 GMT in aus.comms.mobile Michael may have written:
> >> Then, you have a hard wired phone
> >
> >> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
> >
> > Not always.
>
> 99.99999% of the time
You reckon Telstra maintain an average SLA of _3 seconds per year_
downtime across their PSTN network? My lack of a dial-tone at multiple
properties over the years begs to differ.
>> Its perfectly viable when the service provider knows what they are doing.
> And clearly many of them dont know what they are doing.
So you use the ones that do, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
> Reminds me of the days of callback services, 5-10 years ago
More fool you, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
>>> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx
>>> instead of just 9xxx . . .
>>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>> You get that with the POTS service too, fuckwit.
> Hardly.
Corse you do, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>>> mindless levels of complications and faults
>> Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
> Even a fool can make and receive a call on a POTS service
So can any fool with a preconfigured voip system, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
> VOIP should just work, in the same fashion.
It does with a preconfigured system.
> Indeed now you can attach hardwire-like phones that just work like a normal phone (or should)
So what the fuck are you whining about, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child ?
Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Will Kemp" <Will@xxxx.Swaggie.net> wrote in message
> news:47073488$0$3579$5a62ac22@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:54:59 +0000, Michael wrote:
>>
>>> "thegoons" <thegoons@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>>> news:4706fa85$0$26404$88260bb3@free.teranews.com.. .
>>>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>>>> crap and consumers whould avoid it like the plague. Sorry Telstra,
>>>> you have missed the boat and have become more irrelevant than
>>>> ever. No wonder why Coonan chose OPEL and that Telstra will NEVER
>>>> get a look-in again at any Federal money for broadband expansions.
>>>
>>> generally, it is crap. its an immature product.
>>
>> It's nowhere near as immature as that oaf Trujillo!
>>
>> But, in fact, it's not at all immature. VOIP (as opposed to internet
>> telephony) is widely used in many large corporations and works
>> faultlessly.
>
> With vast numbers of people supporting it. Joe Blow hasnt got a chance
>
>>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like - i cant get through to a
>>> local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of just 9xxx . . .
>>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>>
>> Pretty much the same sort of thing as what you'll find in the
>> broadband forums - would you describe *that* as an immature
>> technology? All sorts of people have difficulties with all forms of
>> technology. That's just the way it is.
>
> Yet no one seems to have trouble with the POTS network
Tell that to the Baldings, their kid ended up dead, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>>> Then, you have a hard wired phone
>>>
>>> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
>>>
>>> when you want to dial out, you lift it, and make a call
>>
>> There's plenty of times when ADSL works on someone's line, but the
>> phone doesn't - in those cases, internet telephony (which clowns
>> like you will insist on referring to as "VOIP") is more reliable
>> than POTS.
Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5mq802Fep4s3U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Will Kemp <Will@xxxx.Swaggie.net> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:52:31 +1000, thegoons wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Telstra's propganda website, they are now spruiking that VOIP is
>>>> crap
>>>
>>> Well, that's not exactly what it's saying. It's saying Skype is
>>> crap - and skype *is* crap, for various reasons.
>>>
>>> They're trying to extend problems with skype to all forms of
>>> internet telephony by implication, of course. But that blog post
>>> doesn't really say anything much at all about internet telephony
>>> other than skype. Anyway, as one comment says:
>>>
>>> "Why isn't Telstra talking up products that deliver on the potential
>>> of the new tech, instead of attempting to turn people off?"
>>>
>>> Why indeed???
>>
>> Because that would fuck their revenue stream very comprehensively indeed.
> Of course.
> You cant expect them to cannabalise that. They cannabilise that, then
> broadband and mobiles prices will go up to get that revenue back
Wrong, everyone would just use their competitors, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
> Careful what you wish for, customers
The demise of telstra, most of them. Those fuckwit yanks in spades.
Michael wrote:
>>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
>>> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx instead of
>>> just 9xxx . . .
>>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>> Never ever had any of those problems, fuckwit. Simply get a VoIP box
>> pre-configured straight from your provider, you terminal fuckwit.
>
> Sorry fuckwit, I dont use VOIP, its an immature technology.
No, you don't use it because you're incapable. That's part of being a
Telstra sycophant, fuckwit.
Pity about the fact the technology has been around well over 20 years,
fuckwit.
Pity about the fact it's replacing all circuit switched networks, fuckwit.
Pity about the fact TLS MPLS network is essentially VoIP for voice (by
nature), fuckwit.
Pity about carrier grade VoIP products available.
No pity in the fact you're a terminal backward fuckwit with clearly no
idea on anything, ever.
"Paul Day" <pauls@enigma.id.au> wrote in message
news:1191757057.443439@colossus.enigma.id.au...
> On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 11:18:57 GMT in aus.comms.mobile Michael may have
> written:
>> >> Then, you have a hard wired phone
>> >
>> >> it rings, you pick it up, you talk
>> >
>> > Not always.
>>
>> 99.99999% of the time
>
> You reckon Telstra maintain an average SLA of _3 seconds per year_
> downtime across their PSTN network? My lack of a dial-tone at multiple
> properties over the years begs to differ.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5msmplFf5oa5U1@mid.individual.net...
> Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>>> its an immature product.
>
>>> Its perfectly viable when the service provider knows what they are
>>> doing.
>
>> And clearly many of them dont know what they are doing.
>
> So you use the ones that do, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>
>> Reminds me of the days of callback services, 5-10 years ago
>
> More fool you, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>
>>>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
>>>> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx
>>>> instead of just 9xxx . . .
>>>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>>>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>
>>> You get that with the POTS service too, fuckwit.
>
>> Hardly.
>
> Corse you do, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>
>>>> mindless levels of complications and faults
>
>>> Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
>
>> Even a fool can make and receive a call on a POTS service
>
> So can any fool with a preconfigured voip system, you stupid dunny
> cleaning fuckwit child.
>
>> VOIP should just work, in the same fashion.
>
> It does with a preconfigured system.
Too bad about the shite at the other end of the line that fucks up.
Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5msmplFf5oa5U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Michael <michael@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> its an immature product.
>>
>>>> Its perfectly viable when the service provider knows what they are
>>>> doing.
>>
>>> And clearly many of them dont know what they are doing.
>>
>> So you use the ones that do, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>>
>>> Reminds me of the days of callback services, 5-10 years ago
>>
>> More fool you, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>>
>>>>> go look at whirlfool forums, posts like
>>>>> - i cant get through to a local number unless i dial 03 9xxx
>>>>> instead of just 9xxx . . .
>>>>> - i cant dial certain 13 numbers
>>>>> - incoming calls get ring tone but dont ring at my end
>>
>>>> You get that with the POTS service too, fuckwit.
>>
>>> Hardly.
>>
>> Corse you do, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
>>
>>>>> mindless levels of complications and faults
>>
>>>> Only in the hands of fools that havent got a clue.
>>
>>> Even a fool can make and receive a call on a POTS service
>>
>> So can any fool with a preconfigured voip system, you stupid dunny
>> cleaning fuckwit child.
>>
>>> VOIP should just work, in the same fashion.
>>
>> It does with a preconfigured system.
>
> Too bad about the shite at the other end of the line that fucks up.
Happens with POTS too, you stupid dunny cleaning fuckwit child.
Telstra Crap 
Linear Mode
