What's the basic security issue with an unsecured home router?

A neighbor of mine has an unsecured belkin router based on what I see in my
wireless networks.

I can actually connect and use his internet connection (3 bars) but I have
my own (five bars) so that in and of itself is of limited interest to me.

Still, I wonder.

It's almost as if he's extended a palms-out open invitation to me to do
something, anything. (Am I a bad person for even thinking this?)

There must be some reason people go to the trouble to secure their routers
(mine, for example, is secured with a password at least).

May I ask what earthly advantage would it be to have the good fortune of
unfettered access to my neighbor's wireles router short of mischief?

What would I want to do that would be of benefit?

>A neighbor of mine has an unsecured belkin router based on what I see in my
> wireless networks.

Be a good neighbor, suggest they secure it.

> It's almost as if he's extended a palms-out open invitation to me to do
> something, anything. (Am I a bad person for even thinking this?)

Sure, and if he leaves his lawnmower out in the yard, that's just an
invitation to use it, right? Or perhaps a better analogy would be leaving
his TV on and using your remote to watch premium channels. After all, he's
already paying for it, right?

It's called theft of service. Sure, you can 'get away with it'. Until you
can't, then you're stuck being the thief in the neighborhood.

> There must be some reason people go to the trouble to secure their routers
> (mine, for example, is secured with a password at least).

Yes, to allow the piece of mind to know what they're paying for isn't being
stolen by others.

> May I ask what earthly advantage would it be to have the good fortune of
> unfettered access to my neighbor's wireles router short of mischief?
> What would I want to do that would be of benefit?

What, all this just to troll for this nonsense? Find better uses for your
time, I'm sure that To Do list is calling...

On Mon, 26 May 2008 01:32:27 -0400, Bill Kearney wrote:

> What, all this just to troll for this nonsense? Find better uses for
> your time, I'm sure that To Do list is calling...

Hey, I think the OP didn't sound right asking the question but I think
the question, in and of itself, is not a bad one to ask. I myself, would
like to understand exactly why we go through the efforts of securing our
networks and precisely what types of things can be done against us if we
don't.

To the OP : I think you are asking your question in the wrong way and in
the wrong place.

On Mon, 26 May 2008 12:42:04 GMT, curt wrote:
> To the OP : I think you are asking your question in the wrong way and in
> the wrong place.

Sorry. I just don't see why I go to the trouble to secure my router if all
it does is allow my closest neighbors to get bad bars of service.

In news:g1eh6s$td9$1@aioe.org Sharon <Sharongig@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 May 2008 12:42:04 GMT, curt wrote:
>> To the OP : I think you are asking your question in the wrong way and
>> in the wrong place.
>
> Sorry. I just don't see why I go to the trouble to secure my router if
> all it does is allow my closest neighbors to get bad bars of service.

It allows them to masquerade as you, or at least masquerade as a paying
customer of your ISP.

Once he's connected to your router, if he accesses the Internet, he has
your IP address.

Further, if you have any PCs on an internal LAN, he has access to all of
them, limited only by whatever security you've activated on them, if
any.


--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert@iphouse.com

Sharon wrote:
> On Mon, 26 May 2008 12:42:04 GMT, curt wrote:
>
>>To the OP : I think you are asking your question in the wrong way and in
>>the wrong place.
>
>
> Sorry. I just don't see why I go to the trouble to secure my router if all
> it does is allow my closest neighbors to get bad bars of service.

Securing your router will have no effect on the bars of service; those bars
of service indicate the strength of the received signal. Securing your
router will prevent unauthorized users from accessing your LAN and/or your
WAN via your router.

You want to keep the unwashed from accessing your LAN so that they will not
steal or destroy or corrupt your data on your PCs.

You want to keep the unwashed from accessing your WAN (i.e., your connection
to the 'net) so that they will not do things that will hurt your reputation
(e.g., upload kiddie porn, an act that may be traceable to your router and
then be blamed on you).
--
Cheers, Bob

On Sun, 25 May 2008 22:13:18 -0700, Sharon <Sharongig@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>A neighbor of mine has an unsecured belkin router based on what I see in my
>wireless networks.

Sigh. I've been on a futile compaign to ship wireless routers in a
configuration that is secure by default. Search this newsgroup for
"secure by default" for various rants on the subject.

>I can actually connect and use his internet connection (3 bars) but I have
>my own (five bars) so that in and of itself is of limited interest to me.

I sometimes use my neighbors connection for testing my router
security. It gives me easy access to the WAN (internets) side of the
router, where I can check for vulnerabilities.

>Still, I wonder.

I'm never still, moving all the time, when I'm wondering. If I ever
stop, I'll be in trouble.

>It's almost as if he's extended a palms-out open invitation to me to do
>something, anything. (Am I a bad person for even thinking this?)

Yes. There's no established way advertise an open wireless access
point. There are organizations that help:
<http://www.fon.com>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FON>
In general, a wireless router, deployed in its default configuration,
with the default SSID and no password, is a sign of ineptitude, not an
invitation.

A good test is to reverse the situation. If you were to install a
wireless home router, and didn't bother reading the instructions on
how to secure the router, would you want the neighborhood using your
connection?

>There must be some reason people go to the trouble to secure their routers
>(mine, for example, is secured with a password at least).

Yes. Several reasons to do it wrong:
1. Failure to read and follow the printed instructions.
2. Failure to understand the technical risks.
3. Failure to visualize the possible exploits.
4. Failure to appreciate the legal exposure.
5. Bad advice from ISP, friends, and neighbors.
6. Haste in setting it up.

>May I ask what earthly advantage would it be to have the good fortune of
>unfettered access to my neighbor's wireles router short of mischief?

It really depends on your technical expertise and imagination. The
problem is that your definition of "mischief" may not be the same as
your neighbors (or mine). To some, any unauthorized use is mischief.
>What would I want to do that would be of benefit?

Mostly testing the security of your firewall from the internet side.
There are other ways to do this, using web based tools, but it's
sometime easier to do it all yourself.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On May 25, 11:13 pm, Sharon <Sharon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> There must be some reason people go to the trouble to secure their routers
> (mine, for example, is secured with a password at least).
>


I don't really know the details of one's security exposure with open
wireless, but for some reason those who do aren't making it very clear
right now.

I can imagine a couple of bad things that can happen when wireless is
unsecured:

1) You are letting strangers into your local network. It's like
letting them in your house. They now have a much better chance of
getting onto your pc if they are in your LAN, behind your router's
firewall and NAT. This includes any file-sharing that you may have
enabled. Depending on your os and it's settings, they may be able to
install programs, trojans, keyloggers etc. From there, your identity
can be stolen, and you can be robbed directly as well.

2) Since wireless is unsecured, they can sniff your packets and steal
passwords etc as well? More theft of identity and data.

3)what they said about using your ip address for nefarious
activities. Like stealing your car to rob a bank. Not good for you.

OK guys, correct me, but at least the OP is getting the idea. Keep
the bad guys on the other side of your firewall, basically.

Sharon wrote:
> A neighbor of mine has an unsecured belkin router based on what I see in my
> wireless networks.
>
> I can actually connect and use his internet connection (3 bars) but I have
> my own (five bars) so that in and of itself is of limited interest to me.
>
> Still, I wonder.
>
> It's almost as if he's extended a palms-out open invitation to me to do
> something, anything. (Am I a bad person for even thinking this?)
>
> There must be some reason people go to the trouble to secure their routers
> (mine, for example, is secured with a password at least).
>
> May I ask what earthly advantage would it be to have the good fortune of
> unfettered access to my neighbor's wireles router short of mischief?
>
> What would I want to do that would be of benefit?

I'm not using wireless at home currently, but when I get a new access
point, I will certainly secure it.
This is not because I'm afraid that anyone will "hack" my machines, but
simply because I don't want to share my bandwidth. Securing a modern
access point is done in maximum 5 minutes, and is pretty much straight
forward.

Bruce Schneier has some interesting points in his blog though:
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...n_wireles.html

--
Erik
The wise man does at once what the fool does finally