> <http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-isp-anonymizes-all-customer-traffic-to-beat-spying-110127/>
>
> Here is true TECH for the people...
>
> More Tech...for the peoples...
>
> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27...-will-ano.html
>
> Awesome news, hopefully this idea spreads over more countries in
> Europe...
>
> THANKS
I live in Sweden and I can tell let you know that Bahnhof's vision is
Great!
They always think about their customers in first hand, and they are
very hard and strict about their IP logging and privacy.
I don't use Bahnhof, since they don't currently provide Fiber
connection in my town at the moment. But they are expanding, and many
users are jumping on to the Bahnhof bandwagon due to their strict
view on Privacy and logging.
And if I remember correctly, the EU decided that all European ISP's
will be forced to log IP's for a minimum of 12 months due to an EU
law, including Bahnhof.
But if there is a Swedish law that will prevent Bahnhof of using the
VPN and go around the EU directive, I still haven't found out.
BTW here are some images from (Pionen) wich is Bahnhof's Data
Center.(Under ground)
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:27:33 -0500, DasFox wrote:
>
>> <http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-isp-anonymizes-all-customer-traffic-to-beat-spying-110127/>
>>
>> Here is true TECH for the people...
>>
>> More Tech...for the peoples...
>>
>> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27...-will-ano.html
>>
>> Awesome news, hopefully this idea spreads over more countries in
>> Europe...
>>
>> THANKS
>
> I doubt this will work out. This is basically evasion and could be
> answered by forcing any VPN provider who does business with a Swedish
> ISP to obey Swedish law, i.e. log at their end. If Bahnhof is running
> their own or use a 3rd party on in Sweden it's even simpler. Dumbass.
The Swedes can't force a foreign VPN to log at their end. And the VPN
would have to be foreign, as the strategy is useless if the VPN is
subject to Swedish law. Legal wrangles? Legalese? Legal ill!
--
I want love and kisses and ponies in a field of ****ographic pleasure.
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Call/email the Owner ;) Nancy Norelli 305.926.8245 nnorelli@platanalytics.com http://uscybercomresistanceleague.co...nalcapability/
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:32:06 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:27:33 -0500, DasFox wrote:
>
>> <http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-isp-anonymizes-all-customer-traffic-to-beat-spying-110127/>
>>
>> Here is true TECH for the people...
>>
>> More Tech...for the peoples...
>>
>> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27...-will-ano.html
>>
>> Awesome news, hopefully this idea spreads over more countries in
>> Europe...
>>
>> THANKS
>
> I live in Sweden and I can tell let you know that Bahnhof's vision is
> Great!
>
> They always think about their customers in first hand, and they are
> very hard and strict about their IP logging and privacy.
>
> I don't use Bahnhof, since they don't currently provide Fiber
> connection in my town at the moment. But they are expanding, and many
> users are jumping on to the Bahnhof bandwagon due to their strict
> view on Privacy and logging.
>
> And if I remember correctly, the EU decided that all European ISP's
> will be forced to log IP's for a minimum of 12 months due to an EU
> law, including Bahnhof.
>
> But if there is a Swedish law that will prevent Bahnhof of using the
> VPN and go around the EU directive, I still haven't found out.
>
> BTW here are some images from (Pionen) wich is Bahnhof's Data
> Center.(Under ground)
>
> http://www.bahnhof.se/pionen/gallery/
>
> More info
>
> <http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/04/15/inside-the-james-bond-villain-data-center/>
There is currently no law in Sweden preventing ISPs to route through a
VPN. Bahnhof has already been offering this service as opt-in for some
time, and I use it to obstruct the data retention that is now being
implemented here after threats from Brussels - dodging the FRA mass
surveillance for good measure. This "Anonine" service is quite okay,
it comes at roughly $6 a month, it's stable, it doesn't noticeably
affect speed and the third party provider doesn't log traffic. The DR
directive applies to ISP:s, and to my understanding the term "ISP"
hasn't been legally defined yet, so until someone files a lawsuit
demanding traffic info to be turned over by Anonine this solution will
work, I suppose. Luckily our current Minister of Justice isn't very
bright and our MP:s generally a little stupid in IT matters.
I agree that Bahnhof always has been in the forefront when it comes to
defending their customers' interests, and those few times when they've
been forced to back off they've never gone further than absolutely
necessary. It's a pretty clever and far-sighted business concept that
I guess will prove increasingly profitable for them.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:44:38 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:32:06 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:27:33 -0500, DasFox wrote:
>>
>>> <http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-isp-anonymizes-all-customer-traffic-to-beat-spying-110127/>
>>>
>>> Here is true TECH for the people...
>>>
>>> More Tech...for the peoples...
>>>
>>> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27...-will-ano.html
>>>
>>> Awesome news, hopefully this idea spreads over more countries in
>>> Europe...
>>>
>>> THANKS
>>
>> I live in Sweden and I can tell let you know that Bahnhof's vision is
>> Great!
>>
>> They always think about their customers in first hand, and they are
>> very hard and strict about their IP logging and privacy.
>>
>> I don't use Bahnhof, since they don't currently provide Fiber
>> connection in my town at the moment. But they are expanding, and many
>> users are jumping on to the Bahnhof bandwagon due to their strict
>> view on Privacy and logging.
>>
>> And if I remember correctly, the EU decided that all European ISP's
>> will be forced to log IP's for a minimum of 12 months due to an EU
>> law, including Bahnhof.
>>
>> But if there is a Swedish law that will prevent Bahnhof of using the
>> VPN and go around the EU directive, I still haven't found out.
>>
>> BTW here are some images from (Pionen) wich is Bahnhof's Data
>> Center.(Under ground)
>>
>> http://www.bahnhof.se/pionen/gallery/
>>
>> More info
>>
>> <http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/04/15/inside-the-james-bond-villain-data-center/>
>
> There is currently no law in Sweden preventing ISPs to route through a
> VPN. Bahnhof has already been offering this service as opt-in for some
> time, and I use it to obstruct the data retention that is now being
> implemented here after threats from Brussels - dodging the FRA mass
> surveillance for good measure. This "Anonine" service is quite okay,
> it comes at roughly $6 a month, it's stable, it doesn't noticeably
> affect speed and the third party provider doesn't log traffic. The DR
> directive applies to ISP:s, and to my understanding the term "ISP"
> hasn't been legally defined yet, so until someone files a lawsuit
> demanding traffic info to be turned over by Anonine this solution will
> work, I suppose. Luckily our current Minister of Justice isn't very
> bright and our MP:s generally a little stupid in IT matters.
>
> I agree that Bahnhof always has been in the forefront when it comes to
> defending their customers' interests, and those few times when they've
> been forced to back off they've never gone further than absolutely
> necessary. It's a pretty clever and far-sighted business concept that
> I guess will prove increasingly profitable for them.
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:44:38 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:32:06 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:27:33 -0500, DasFox wrote:
>>>
>>>> <http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-isp-anonymizes-all-customer-traffic-to-beat-spying-110127/>
>>>>
>>>> Here is true TECH for the people...
>>>>
>>>> More Tech...for the peoples...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27...-will-ano.html
>>>>
>>>> Awesome news, hopefully this idea spreads over more countries in
>>>> Europe...
>>>>
>>>> THANKS
>>>
>>> I live in Sweden and I can tell let you know that Bahnhof's vision is
>>> Great!
>>>
>>> They always think about their customers in first hand, and they are
>>> very hard and strict about their IP logging and privacy.
>>>
>>> I don't use Bahnhof, since they don't currently provide Fiber
>>> connection in my town at the moment. But they are expanding, and many
>>> users are jumping on to the Bahnhof bandwagon due to their strict
>>> view on Privacy and logging.
>>>
>>> And if I remember correctly, the EU decided that all European ISP's
>>> will be forced to log IP's for a minimum of 12 months due to an EU
>>> law, including Bahnhof.
>>>
>>> But if there is a Swedish law that will prevent Bahnhof of using the
>>> VPN and go around the EU directive, I still haven't found out.
>>>
>>> BTW here are some images from (Pionen) wich is Bahnhof's Data
>>> Center.(Under ground)
>>>
>>> http://www.bahnhof.se/pionen/gallery/
>>>
>>> More info
>>>
>>> <http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/04/15/inside-the-james-bond-villain-data-center/>
>>
>> There is currently no law in Sweden preventing ISPs to route through a
>> VPN. Bahnhof has already been offering this service as opt-in for some
>> time, and I use it to obstruct the data retention that is now being
>> implemented here after threats from Brussels - dodging the FRA mass
>> surveillance for good measure. This "Anonine" service is quite okay,
>> it comes at roughly $6 a month, it's stable, it doesn't noticeably
>> affect speed and the third party provider doesn't log traffic. The DR
>> directive applies to ISP:s, and to my understanding the term "ISP"
>> hasn't been legally defined yet, so until someone files a lawsuit
>> demanding traffic info to be turned over by Anonine this solution will
>> work, I suppose. Luckily our current Minister of Justice isn't very
>> bright and our MP:s generally a little stupid in IT matters.
>>
>> I agree that Bahnhof always has been in the forefront when it comes to
>> defending their customers' interests, and those few times when they've
>> been forced to back off they've never gone further than absolutely
>> necessary. It's a pretty clever and far-sighted business concept that
>> I guess will prove increasingly profitable for them.
>
> Anonine? Is that what they're using? A non in eU? ;)
Yes. I was rather skeptic at first, as the company providing the
server, Portlane, used to make some bs claims on their homepage, but
that seems to be corrected now. There is also a stand-alone Anonine
service besides the Bahnhof-connected one at about the same price.
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:36:21 -0500, nix wrote:
>
>> The Swedes can't force a foreign VPN to log at their end. And the VPN
>> would have to be foreign, as the strategy is useless if the VPN is
>> subject to Swedish law. Legal wrangles? Legalese? Legal ill!
>
> I guess that's a good thing. First they need to pass a law that forces
> not only ISPs but other service providers as well to log. This will
> take a while. Then when they think they succeeded Bahnhof can still
> move to an offshore provider.
That would, in fact, be a very bad thing for Swedish customers, a
betrayal even, as it would mean that domestic traffic as well would be
subject to the mass surveillance initiated some years ago. I don't
think Bahnhof will consider that option.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:55:11 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:54:14 -0500, katio wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:36:21 -0500, nix wrote:
>>
>>> The Swedes can't force a foreign VPN to log at their end. And the VPN
>>> would have to be foreign, as the strategy is useless if the VPN is
>>> subject to Swedish law. Legal wrangles? Legalese? Legal ill!
>>
>> I guess that's a good thing. First they need to pass a law that forces
>> not only ISPs but other service providers as well to log. This will
>> take a while. Then when they think they succeeded Bahnhof can still
>> move to an offshore provider.
>
> That would, in fact, be a very bad thing for Swedish customers, a
> betrayal even, as it would mean that domestic traffic as well would be
> subject to the mass surveillance initiated some years ago. I don't
> think Bahnhof will consider that option.
Ok, I'm sorry. I'm on a learning curve here. Learning to use my curves
too ;) ;) ;)
So they are using Anonine. I didn't realize this. And Anonine is a
Swedish VPN, but not an ISP, so not subject to the law. At least not
yet, anyway. Soon? Sooner? OK-lahomer?
And the Swedes are depending on the technological inefficiency of the
Minister of Justice to keep it like this. But that's not going to be
long-term strategy, I assume. It seems as if the day will come when it
is better to use a foreign VPN, in order to skirt domestic logging
requirements.
In fact, I'm of the opinion <opining now> that eventually, such global
networks will be the only workable solution. But you're of the opinion
<OP opining then and then> that this would be a betrayal of Swedish
customers. Can you explain? X-plane? ;)
On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:52:51 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:45:36 -0500, nix wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:44:38 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:32:06 -0500, Fred Sobotkin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:27:33 -0500, DasFox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <http://torrentfreak.com/wikileaks-isp-anonymizes-all-customer-traffic-to-beat-spying-110127/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is true TECH for the people...
>>>>>
>>>>> More Tech...for the peoples...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.boingboing.net/2011/01/27...-will-ano.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Awesome news, hopefully this idea spreads over more countries in
>>>>> Europe...
>>>>>
>>>>> THANKS
>>>>
>>>> I live in Sweden and I can tell let you know that Bahnhof's vision is
>>>> Great!
>>>>
>>>> They always think about their customers in first hand, and they are
>>>> very hard and strict about their IP logging and privacy.
>>>>
>>>> I don't use Bahnhof, since they don't currently provide Fiber
>>>> connection in my town at the moment. But they are expanding, and many
>>>> users are jumping on to the Bahnhof bandwagon due to their strict
>>>> view on Privacy and logging.
>>>>
>>>> And if I remember correctly, the EU decided that all European ISP's
>>>> will be forced to log IP's for a minimum of 12 months due to an EU
>>>> law, including Bahnhof.
>>>>
>>>> But if there is a Swedish law that will prevent Bahnhof of using the
>>>> VPN and go around the EU directive, I still haven't found out.
>>>>
>>>> BTW here are some images from (Pionen) wich is Bahnhof's Data
>>>> Center.(Under ground)
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bahnhof.se/pionen/gallery/
>>>>
>>>> More info
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2009/04/15/inside-the-james-bond-villain-data-center/>
>>>
>>> There is currently no law in Sweden preventing ISPs to route through a
>>> VPN. Bahnhof has already been offering this service as opt-in for some
>>> time, and I use it to obstruct the data retention that is now being
>>> implemented here after threats from Brussels - dodging the FRA mass
>>> surveillance for good measure. This "Anonine" service is quite okay,
>>> it comes at roughly $6 a month, it's stable, it doesn't noticeably
>>> affect speed and the third party provider doesn't log traffic. The DR
>>> directive applies to ISP:s, and to my understanding the term "ISP"
>>> hasn't been legally defined yet, so until someone files a lawsuit
>>> demanding traffic info to be turned over by Anonine this solution will
>>> work, I suppose. Luckily our current Minister of Justice isn't very
>>> bright and our MP:s generally a little stupid in IT matters.
>>>
>>> I agree that Bahnhof always has been in the forefront when it comes to
>>> defending their customers' interests, and those few times when they've
>>> been forced to back off they've never gone further than absolutely
>>> necessary. It's a pretty clever and far-sighted business concept that
>>> I guess will prove increasingly profitable for them.
>>
>> Anonine? Is that what they're using? A non in eU? ;)
>
> Yes. I was rather skeptic at first, as the company providing the
> server, Portlane, used to make some bs claims on their homepage, but
> that seems to be corrected now. There is also a stand-alone Anonine
> service besides the Bahnhof-connected one at about the same price.
Imagine Internet becoming like cable TV, a hand full of companies
controlling all datacenters, hardware, software and media (Google,
Apple, Amazon and whoever survives the next few years), no user
generated content, all discussions heavily filtered and censored,
network neutrality long forgotten. Guess what?
I'd cancel my internet connection (just like I did with TV) and never
look back. Forward thinking ISPs know that.
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