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Old 10-15-2007, 10:13 AM
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Default Using vs. Avoiding Steel Structures

I have this issue that I've been toying around with for the past few weeks as a solution to my lack of wireless coverage in my house. The building i live in is made of concrete and steel (don't know what it's called exactly). However I live in a duplex, so there is a bright side, that being that there is a big hole in the floor/ceiling acting as an open space between the two apartments. Here's where the problem is, the staircase that links the two floors together is an aesthetically pleasing, well-decorated STEEL STRUCTURE. Of course that may be good on the eyes, but it kinda sucks for wireless networking not to mention that comes right smack in the middle of the house, so it kind of cuts up the house into zones.


|---------------------|-----------------------|
|Upper Floor Left Zone | Upper Floor Right Zone |
|---------------------|-----------------------|
|Lower Floor Left Zone | Lower Floor Right Zone |
|---------------------|-----------------------|

So as you might have realized by now, I am facing issues deploying a wireless network to cover the whole house. As I can see it, I have a few choices:

1. Buy extremely high gain antennas to get a signal penetrated from one zone to all three others.
2. Buy APs/routers and use them as range expanders.

One other option that I have been thinking of is, what if I could actually use this immense steel structure as an antenna? Just a little bit of applied physics, if I were to wrap a coil round my routers antenna and attached it to the steel of the staircase, wouldn't that induce a current to and from the steel stair case from/to the antennae of the router? this in turn would turn my greatest obstacle into the greatest catalyst that ever happened to my house (from a wireless networking point of view).

Any ideas, suggestions, comments (bashful or not)??
All is welcome.
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Old 10-15-2007, 06:58 PM
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An induction pickup antenna of that mgnitude would require quiet some matching. It would also be influenced by other metalic object within the building, so once you had it matched you could move anything in the building.

My preferred solution for a situation like this is a LAN over Mains solution. This is a device that plugs into your power socket and gives you the ability to connect to an ethernet port on you PC, you will need at least 2 of these adaptors to create your network. Whilst these items are not cheap it is by far a more simplistic solution to your problem.

Regards

Fred
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Old 10-15-2007, 09:08 PM
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Microwaves like to propagate through air, and work nicely in waveguide structures. waveguides however are difficult to build and require precise measurements. Wrapping a coil around your wifi antenna and attaching it to the stairs will just shield your antenna causing a high impudence and standing waves and thereby rendering your router useless. Locating your access point towards the middle of the building is your best solution with all doors open. Some AC ducts may help propagate the waves if there are not many corners. I personally would link two APs with WDS.

Last edited by webhiway; 10-15-2007 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 10-16-2007, 08:49 AM
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Thanks guys, you actually confirmed my one and only worry about the matter… I just hoped that there may be a chance that it would work.

Here is another approach that I was thinking of. I do have a ducting system in the house which feeds every room in the house, so I was thinking why not distribute the wireless signal across the house in a more discrete manner, as in having a wireless access point in every “zone”. Assuming that I was funded with loads of money, then that would be a GREAT idea, with a 1Gb or even 10Gb switching core… But let’s not get carried away, after all this is only a home network, despite my over eager enthusiasm.

So I was curious if there’s any way that I can attach more than one antenna per antenna port on my router, assuming that I maintain the load matched to the original rating, which I think is either 75 or 50 ohms. I just want to know if there is such a thing as an antenna bus, or splitter, or anything of the sort. That way instead of buying four AP’s I just need to get 4 pairs of antennae, which would make my future upgrades to my router easier to work around.

I also looked into two other methods which are Ethernet over mains and Ethernet over the telephone line, which are considerably good solutions, but then I guess that this would reduce the backbone of the network to an Ethernet bus, which I am not too fond of as a topology.

Just one more thing, I’m not too familiar with the new 802.11n standard, is it possible that upgrading to it with its “revolutionary MIMO technology” help me out in such a situation, or would the stair case be imposing such a strenuous physical impact on electromagnetic radiation that it would have almost no effect?

Sorry for all the questions, it’s just that I have been trying to find ways to get around this problem for over a year now, and am still coming up with nothing. It’s starting to get kind of irritating.
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Old 10-16-2007, 06:23 PM
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Yes, there are such devices however you need to concider the power output of your device. coax loss @ 2G4 is substantive to say the least. Typically you can expect 8db attenuation per 100' plus connector loss of 1db per connection min. And I haven't factored in what I will call the splitter (I believe it is called an optimiser or antenna switching array) at 3-5db. Also most of these devices are made for specific antenna arrays and are not easily customisable.

In short it is not worth the hasle. Cable the building to a point then introduce your AP at the point inside the room.

Regards

Fred
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Old 10-16-2007, 09:16 PM
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Also if your coax lengths etc. are not perfectly calculated you may get "out of phase" cancellation issues, just for a starters, as Fred has stated, these are intended for array antenna systems whereby the parasitic resonance is computed for the desired effect.
Splitting up the output of one radio to cover two sectors is a BIG no no. (unless the radio has been specifically designed to do that, but generally they would use two separate radios and then integrate them after the baseband).

So put a pry-bar to your wallet, get two APs and link them using WDS and problem solved! :-)

Last edited by webhiway; 10-16-2007 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 10-23-2007, 09:19 AM
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How about any thoughts on MIMO tech or upgrading to 802.11n?

Since MIMO takes advantage of reflections, which i'm guessing is what seems to be my biggest issue.
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Old 10-23-2007, 07:05 PM
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Personally, if it were me, I would stay well away from N devices. We have found in every case where we have installed them they just didn't perform. We have had to replace all of them for standard G devices. We have tried various vendors devices.

In your case I would offer the the PowerLine solution (Network Over Mains) or advice you to just bite the bullet and wire for Ethernet. Once you have the PowerLine solution in place you can deploy APs in each room or as required. Sorry but your options are extremely limited.

Regards

Fred
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Old 10-29-2007, 07:49 AM
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Guys, thank you for your help, but some very unexpected yet very fortunate news came to my attention. I was informed that due to my luck I can actually get Ethernet cabling in the house without actually breaking down the walls and so on; turns out they can actually be extended through the existing conduits... YAY!!!

So CAT 6 cables, here I come!

Now, just one little itty bitty question. What's the distance constraint on extending CAT6 cables alongside power cables?
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:00 AM
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Please be adviced that you should not under any circumstances lay your CAT5/6 cable in the same ducting as your mains. The reason for this is called inductive pickup. The 50/60hz generated by the mains will be induced on the CAT5/6 cable and will detriate signal integrity severly. The longer the side by side run the greater the effect.

Regards

Fred
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