Ideas

Right here i go again bitching and moaning (nah not really just an idea or two that i'm sure others have had) and i'm sure most won't like.

As far as i can see the general idea behind nzwireless is a "free to all community based network" well in an ideal world that would be great but i'm sorry to burst your bubble but with the way things are going nzwireless will be nothing but a memory within two years.

No i'm not pointing the finger at anyone i'm just saying that in order to progress nzwireless need to evaluate alot of points (some of which i will comment on later in this post). I think noodles and the other people have done a fab job so far and by no means do i mean any disrespect.

Alittle about myself. I have my own company that does very well for itself we are not limited to any particular industry infact if i can see a market and the ability to profit from it then i'll through money into it, to me profit is profit even if it is only a limited market and for a limited time. Honestly this is what i saw when i first joined nzwireless the ability to hide behind a "community based organisation" but make a small fortune at the same time (i will explane how later) I have since changed my view of the situation after spending alot of time on irc and the forums.

First of all new zealand is a big place and i think that it would be a good idea to split nzwireless in to reagons that are represented by one person (or a group) but still operate under the nzwireless banner. This would allow the network to grow evenly and would take the pressure off the small handfull (that seem to be based mainly in auckland) having to worry about anything but there own areas. Everyone here has there own area of expertise why not utilise this by having them involved in an area that they excel in i.e. you wouldn't ask a plumber to do the elec wiring in your house and the same applies here. (and yes people i am still well aware that everyone gives their time freely) but if you really believe in the spirit of nzwireless then this shouldn't be a factor to even consider.

Secondly I'm sure i won't get alot of argument here but Noodles should still head nzwireless as the chairman of the board so to speak, along with the other elected members representing their reagions on a board of trusties so that there is a group of poeple that are willing to make the decisions for everyone. You may be thinking "i don't want anyone deciding for me I want to vote on the issues myself" well again sorry to burst the bubble but democricy is a myth if you had to put every decision to the vote you would get no where hence why you would have someone (who can spare the time) elected to represent your reagion on the board of trusties.

Lastly; (and this was how i was going to make a hansome little profit) nzwireless needs to own and control the network infastructure in order to do this nzwireless needs money..........right?
There are many options floating aroud irc about how to do this i.e. Grants sponsors membership fees and the like but to be quite honest the answer to funding is quite simple (see if you can figure it out by the time you have finished reading the rest of the post) and there is going to be one member who is not going to like this idea at all.
First of all nzwireless puts node/AP/POP's what ever you want to call them, using a top qulity solution designed by those members that have the expertise for such a task in promanant locations around NZ (not all at the same time) funded (and hence owned) by nzwireless.
Now that you have a Node/AP/POP in a good place over looking alot of homes you have just created for yourself a source of revenue.
With abit of maketing through local papers, TV (which as nzwireless is a community based organisation) would be free. You inform the public that there is a FREE wireless network in there area that they can connect to (you are now probably asking why would Mr/Mrs Joe/Jane Average want to connect to our network?) well you now through in an internet gateway so all of a sudden its gone from being a free wireless network to just being free internet and all of a sudden you have there interest. Now i'm going to do it again (burst your bubble that is) "Nothing is FREE" everything has a price (have you figured it out yet?) nzwireless supplies and installs the equipment required to connect to the network hence $$$$ (and no this is not comercial or even semi-comercial) its no different than doing fund raising like a susage sizzle or something.
Now the next question is "How do we pay for the internet gateway"? with any luck we would have securied funding or grants from councils, trust or private business this money would be earmarket to cover the costs of the gateway/s

I know that we have shop.borg.co.nz run by shadowNZ, I am also aware that he contributes to nzwireless in many ways but i'm sorry to say it, nzwireless would benifit more from running the shop itself and hence putting the profits directly back into the nzwireless community to build the network infastructure.

I know that some of you are going to tell me that i'm an idiot or a prick and that i have only been on nzwireless a short time and that i should be supporting the current administration not putting them down and if thats the way you feel then thats fine but don't bother telling me, instead pull your head out of your ass and think about the ideas, they are logical and have merit.

I also know that there is alot of finer points of the idea that need to be worked on

Well NZWireless could take over the shop but who is going to spend their free time running it for no pay?. You all seem to think that im making a killing out of the proceeds from the shop. I can assure you that the prices are very tight and often only just able to make the deal work. To give you an idea of just how tight they are on the 19db grids we make $3.00. and that just covers the courier charge when picking up the item.

Ok so you may ask. Why do it then. Well http://shop.borg.co.nz was spawned out of the need for a central point to get good wireless gear. However of late i have been getting somewhat frustrated whith people picking at the prices and bitching about stuff like being able to get an order from other companies a couple of dollars cheaper. and others organising bulk deals on antennas and esentially undercutting the deals.
These sort of actions keep the faith of the community at its highest im sure.

So what happens to the little proffit Borg makes from the http://shop.borg.co.nz? It goes to things like paying for web hosting, helping out at events and on occasion helping people with building their nodes and other bits. richms how much do you think getitng those rings welded to that mast would have cost you if you had to have it done commercially?

Don't get me wrong, im not having a rant at the original guys but at all the Newcommers who seem to think there is some huge proffit organisation driving http://shop.borg.co.nz.

Another thing that you may not be aware of is the events. Noodles and I worked out arses off setting up the treasurehunt and apart from a couple of little glitches it was pulled off prety well. This event was sponsored by http://shop.borg.co.nz and some contacts that we have. We spend a good few weeks sorting out all the logistics and arranging the prizes. and No the entryfee did not come anywhere close to paying for the event and nor did we expect it to. all up the estimated cost on that weekend to http://shop.borg.co.nz was about $700.00.

So why do it. Well it really was an attempt to raise the profile of the community wireless projects and to give us a foundation to work from that would be fun. In addition maybe attract a few new members.

The next event proposed was to be a Warbus around the greater auckland area. Yea a new spin on the Booze Buss. Estimated cost for this was around $1200.00 again there would be a participation fee to help out with the expenses but http://shop.borg.co.nz would have picked up the shortfall. and before you ask the borg funds come from consulting work we do and not from product sales.

At this stage i guess like noodles im getting a little tired of the constant gripes and power struggles. should we decide to either commercialise http://shop.borg.co.nz or close it down then we would also expect someone to start paying for the webhosting and other services offered to nzwireless. There wil be no more freebees and assistance from out part and everything will be treated as a business transaction.

But the last call really is up to you guys and i guess the original founder of NZWireless, but then i have allready discussed the situation with him and prety much know his mind at thins stage.

Shadow

WoW thats alot of words!

My feeling is that once nZwfif has a entity we should run our own shop, and i'm sure that a member of the community will be happy to run it, if not i will

I'm not talking majorly huge, just antenna, wifi cards, pigtails, books, cable

the stuff you need to connect to the wifi network.

my thinking is shadow either once we have a entity we need a shop whose profits are allocated with a transperant process

Also i dont think your making a killing shadow, it all about transperant process and consulting the masses

I agree that NZWireless needs some official entity. I don't know what form that would take though. I don't have a problem with Shadow running a shop its something I want to stay away from myself.

I thought that the people who are closest to a POP would donate the money to build it.

shadow can run the shop, i dont care it can be under then name of BigBetty'sForAll.com, the main thing is if the shop is aimed at supporting nzwif then there will be a time in which the community should have a say on where the funds go.

People donating would be good but alt funding soucrs would be a good idea to persue

Running a shop would be a massive undertaking. At least a full time job for one person. Website setup and hosting would have to be sorted. I don't think I would be able to have anything to do with it because my employer sells wireless gear too.

I like the idea of charging a small fee for network access better than an online shop.

There is no coflict of interest between you and your employer Trvln nzwireless is a community based project. what you are saying is the same as if you worked for pet corner you wouldn't be able to volenteer your time at the SPCA finding homes for strays.

The idea of charging a small fee for access to the network is another idea worth exploring but if you do this you no longer have the illussion of the network being FREE. you will also run into the other hassel of network reliability which if some one is paying for a service they expect to to be running most of the time.

But by keeping the illusion of it being FREE then you don't have as much of a problem because you make people aware (through marketing ) that nzwireless is a community based project that is run completly by volenteers and we don't have the reasources to send someone out at midnight to fix the network problem. With all that in mind people will not expect us to be faultless.

were talking about a few antenna and some cards, cables and pigtails thats about it.

Its not alot of work if you do some creative programming to hook into the supplyer website and automate ordering a little bit. i run a company website in wellington for prices etc etc,its not big or flashy but it does the job

So who takes the risk of holding stock for a shop.
what about the capital required to order in stock?
Who is going to keep the accounts and stock records.
who is going to audit the stock records and accounts?
All that sounds like a lot of responsiblity for no pay.

Why doesn't someone start a wireless network using NZ wireless comunity to provide sites and then work deals with them. eg free access?
Then they would own the network infrastructure themselves.

But that sounds like a wireless ISP which is not what NZ wireless is aimed at. But the ISP could charge for use. It would have to provide capital for the equipment and organisation but that is what businesses are all about.
What Hellraiser is talking about is starting a business.

I suggest that someone starts a business. Gets the help (free if need be) from the "experts" in NZwireless (offering them some future benefit) and starts some wireless network infrastructure. This is a good forum and a huge resource of people for a startup business. Yes we all do have different skills so a group could get together and do all these things.

My head is "out of my ass" when I say that we should be supporting the current administration, without whom this forum for contacting people interested and skiled at wireless networking would not exist. As for telling the organisation what they should do is like so many committee members who sit on committees and bag everyone else, yet contribute very little. Like other governing groups for communities the members are only those who are not busy and skiled enough to make their own business dreams come true.

Like you I think the organising people of this forum need help, and have been working as hard as they can on a venture which does not put food on the table for their family. Pushing and discouragement may mean that they give up altogether.

As for Shadow-X starting a shop and keeping some stock that is to be commended. Prior to him there was little support for wireless networking at such low prices. Shadow-X should pour his profits into Borg.co.nz and build it up to carry more stock and products. Without profit the shop will not grow, and may even just close and go away. Where would you get your wave guide from then? Who would you turn to for those hard to get pieces.

Analogy:
support your local 4 square (superette) else you will have to travel across town to the supermarket, where they don't know your name. When you want just a pint of milk, it is nicer to walk down the road rather than to get in the car and park then queue at the "12 items or less" checkout.

As for ideas
how about forming a "help get you node up" group which once a month offers to get together and help someone who wants to get a node up. Contact the group throgh this forum, people would book their month with a organiser (I nominate Shadow X) then we might see more nodes come up. I would donate a day a month to help. Do I hear other volunteers?
jj

Well JJ you have your points and opinions and heres my reply;

Stock: why do we need to hold stock? we arn't offering a breakdown service, the shop will only be net based, it can operate on a "just in time basis" which means we order the stock as we obtain orders for it.

Capital: Through grants which are out there for the taking for a project like this.

Accounts & Stock Records: the elected board would be responsible for this making records available to all members so we can all see were the money is going.

Responsibility & Pay: were's your community spirit, donate your time too it rather than taking the attude of "whats in it for me"

As for starting a business that was my intent from the start with but silly me thought people here may be interested in taking the next step and making nzwireless an orginisation (not a limited company) differance being one is there to screw everyone and make money the other is there to cover costs and fund its events and the like.

Were in my post have i said that ShadowX was not doing a good job i think he is a great guy and does more than his fair share for nzwireless and i ment no disrecpect to any one (as i said).

Lastly your idea of one day a month to help people Brilliant idea sign me up but the question is are you expecting to be payed JJ

Cheap, pre-made, Cantennas would be a good thing IMO (or a cantenna/card bundle). Let those who are starting out have access to a real low cost product they don't have to make themselves, yet can still try to connect to those around them with a better signal (if there are AP's available), without forking out too much $$$'s on it. Then hopefully they'll advance to an AP of their own.

Thats a good idea but they can't go much further than 1km.