On 2007-03-07, Road_HogŪ <No> wrote:
>
> "Jim" <nospam@raynet-uk.net> wrote in message
> news:egrru2t5ap8j5d2abob6ee1mjs7rouvn7v@4ax.com...
>> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a technical
>> level confirm which of the following is correct.
>>
>> To start with, I have always understood that:
>> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
>> b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
>> network locking
>>
>> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
>
> I think where this stems from is, that originally there was a European wide
> plan for mobile phone to be able to connect to an emergency number and
> bypassing the normal conditions of having the correc sim/ a sim or credit on
> your sim. This was implemented in a number of European countries but the UK
> networks decided that they didn't want to offer this service.
>
> This may have been down to the fact that a higher percentage of phones are
> subsidised and therefore network locked in the UK than the other countries.
I'm not sure what the last bit has to do with it. Very nearly all phones
in the USA are subsidised and network locked, but they'll all make an
emergency call on any available network regardless. The government
required this as a condition for using the radio spectrum, so all
operators support it.
On 7 Mar, 15:32, Ken <k...@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On 07 Mar 2007 09:26:26 +0000, Phil<p...@thecork.trig222.f9.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >As I understand it when you dial 999/112/911? the phone interprets this as an
> >emergency call and actually sends a GSM emergency call code to the network,
> >hence dialing 911 or 999 in North America would work, is this true or another
> >myth?
>
> I think that apart from 112, which is always treated as an emergency
> call, it depends on the phone and whether it recognises the number
> dialled as an emergency number. Some phones allow the list of such
> numbers to be configured in the UI, but my current one (9300) seems
> not to.
Although possibly additionally configurable in the phone, the SIM card
dictates which numbers are considered 'Emergency numbers' to the phone.
"BORG" <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:h82su2tj7rjocqr4jc9oj0b0b862ekii67@4ax.com
> On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 23:55:57 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
[snip]
> > Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise,
> > if it has a valid, working SIM. End of story.
>
> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I
> start it without a SIM in ?
Because the ability to make emergency calls without a SIM is part of the
GSM spec. However no UK network has chosen to implement it.
"agkhoae" <madbnhaportmhoj@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:1hul28k.1wr6em617kgpx4N%madbnhaportmhoj@inval id.com
> A lot of phones will allow you to make 999 calls without
> any SIM installed.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:43:39 -0000, "Road_HogŪ" <No Spam> wrote:
>I think where this stems from is, that originally there was a European wide
>plan for mobile phone to be able to connect to an emergency number and
>bypassing the normal conditions of having the correc sim/ a sim or credit on
>your sim.
There was never a Europe wide plan to do so - there are some moves
afoot now to make it so but its proceeding at the pace of a stunned
slug. It was always the intention that the GSM (The G standing for
global) system should be capable of supporting such a scheme and the
specification was written accordingly.
>This was implemented in a number of European countries but the UK
>networks decided that they didn't want to offer this service.
>
>This may have been down to the fact that a higher percentage of phones are
>subsidised and therefore network locked in the UK than the other countries.
It was a decision made in the early days of GSM in the UK when the
networks controls on phone sales were very poor. It was easy for
anyone to call themselves a dealer and get heavily subsidised
handsets with few checks that they were ever connected (one major
distributor famously ended up with clawback claims of several million
pounds from one network and no idea who to charge them to). Prepay
tariffs didn't really exist and the networks were afraid that lots of
handsets meant for contract connections would be bought as "emergency
only" phones to keep in cars but never be connected.
--
Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
> a SIM in ?
That's the phone talking, however no network will accept an emergency
call from a simless phone, because apart from anything else they have no
way to call back if the call drops.
> IIRC, the GSM standards refer to 112 as the one and only internationally
> binding emergency number. However, 999 or 911 (for the US) might work as
> well. I understand that in the UK emergency calls would not be routed
> without a valid SIM in the phone, in Germany for example they definitly
> would.
I seem to recall that in Germany, proof of identity is needed to
purchase a phone, so they can trace the phone imei back to the original
purchaser (national ID card or passport) in the event of any abuse.
"Denis McMahon" <denis.mcmahon@ntlworld.com> wrote in
message news:dQFHh.31892$OK6.25795@newsfe4-win.ntli.net
> Horst Peiffer wrote:
>
> > IIRC, the GSM standards refer to 112 as the one and
> > only internationally binding emergency number. However,
> > 999 or 911 (for the US) might work as well. I
> > understand that in the UK emergency calls would not be
> > routed without a valid SIM in the phone, in Germany for
> > example they definitly would.
>
> I seem to recall that in Germany, proof of identity is
> needed to purchase a phone, so they can trace the phone
> imei back to the original purchaser (national ID card or
> passport) in the event of any abuse.
Not a lot of use if you've given the phone to a friend or sold it. I have
numerous old phones lying around that I've bought/sold/traded over the
years including an elderly Nokia 3210 that still works fine (although the
battery is knackered). I'd hate to try and remember the original source of
any of them.
BORG wrote:
> On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 01:07:18 -0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
> <nospamclayton@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>> a SIM in ?
>>
>> Because in some jurisdictions you can.
>
> But I'm in Wales
But the phone software is generic and instead of displaying 'no signal'
or 'No Network' that make / model has 'Emergency calls only' displayed,
because GSM standard does allow you to make emergency calls without a
sim and on another home network when out of coverage, however in the UK
they stopped allowing SIM-less phones making emergency calls and they
have never allowed home roaming for emergency calls. (Three however
does roam on another network when not in 3 coverage, so you can make
calls there, but if out of coverave for both, then again, no calls).
"Denis McMahon" <denis.mcmahon@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:dQFHh.31892$OK6.25795@newsfe4-win.ntli.net...
> I seem to recall that in Germany, proof of identity is needed to purchase
> a phone, so they can trace the phone imei back to the original purchaser
> (national ID card or passport) in the event of any abuse.
Same in India, even just to buy a SIM card. A copy of your ID is made and
sent to the network before you are connected.
On 7 Mar 2007 09:35:40 -0800, "Usenet User" <usenetuser@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
>On 7 Mar, 15:32, Ken <k...@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On 07 Mar 2007 09:26:26 +0000, Phil<p...@thecork.trig222.f9.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >As I understand it when you dial 999/112/911? the phone interprets this as an
>> >emergency call and actually sends a GSM emergency call code to the network,
>> >hence dialing 911 or 999 in North America would work, is this true or another
>> >myth?
>>
>> I think that apart from 112, which is always treated as an emergency
>> call, it depends on the phone and whether it recognises the number
>> dialled as an emergency number. Some phones allow the list of such
>> numbers to be configured in the UI, but my current one (9300) seems
>> not to.
>
>Although possibly additionally configurable in the phone, the SIM card
>dictates which numbers are considered 'Emergency numbers' to the phone.
I was not commenting on where the emergency numbers were stored, just
that there's sometimes an ability to amend the list.
I'm still trying to remember which phone I had that allowed it.My two
previous phones to my current were SE (800 and T68i). Anyone with one
of those still working have the answer?
I can't really make my mind up whether this is a useful feature or
not. Probably not. I'd have thought most people clued-up enough to
want to amend the list would already know about 112, whereas the
clueless could do something dangerous.
Denis McMahon wrote:
> BORG wrote:
>
>> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
>> a SIM in ?
>
> That's the phone talking, however no network will accept an emergency
> call from a simless phone, because apart from anything else they have no
> way to call back if the call drops.
Or any idea of who the 'subscriber' is if they start making lots of
prank calls.
On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 13:53:12 -0000, "Simon C" <SimonC@nospamthanks.com>
wrote:
>> How do these "vulnerable people" schemes work then? Do they have
>> special SIM's?
>
>I've never heard of these schemes - what exactly are they?
I've seen adverts in the local press from support charities that,
amongst many other services, offer free phones to people that are
considered particularly vulnerable for them to make 999 calls. As far
as I can tell it's people in domestic abuse situations or things like
that.
They do sound a good re-use of phones that would otherwise be put in
the dustbin.
Based on the conclusion of this thread, I guess they are putting
standard SIM's in and locking them down so only emergency calls can be
made.
Benedict Addis <news@theale.uk> wrote:
>>> A lot of phones will allow you to make 999 calls without any SIM
>>> installed.
>>
>> Indeed. However in the UK the call will not connect.
>>
>> Try it. And when you have done, post back here.
> I was discussing this very question with a friend the other day, and we had
> both always assumed that a phone WITH a SIM, but not in range of its own
> network, would be able to roam for the purposes of making an emergency call.
> It is after all part of the GSM spec.
> I was in a position to try it recently, and as Jon says could not place the
> call - the UK networks have clearly not implemented this. I wonder how many
> people have died as a result of this policy / assumption?
A friend of mine got lost in the Cairngorms in bad weather. He had his
emergency mobile with him, but had forgotten to check its state of
charge. The phone was dead and as a result he nearly died.
On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:20:00 +0000 (UTC), Chris Malcolm
<cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>Very dangerous stuff this modern technology.
One of the first things Mr Marconi discovered with wireless is that
there is an immutable law which states the ability communicate by
wireless is always inversely proportional to the need to communicate.
--
Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
> I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> mobiles? Or before that without phones!
One little old lady in this area burned to death in her home a few
months ago. She had one of those 'care line' alarms round her neck.
Unfortunately, the careline people did not pass on a message that her
relatives were away on holiday so tried in vain to contact those
relatives. By the time they'd contacted anyone useful, her house had
burned down.
If she'd had a simple mobile phone round her neck instead, she might
have had a chance of survival.
"Helen Deborah Vecht" <helenvecht@zetnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:313030303736393545F9B4A331@zetnet.co.uk...
> "Usenet User" <usenetuser@hotmail.co.uk>typed
>
>
> > I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> > all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> > mobiles? Or before that without phones!
>
> One little old lady in this area burned to death in her home a few
> months ago. She had one of those 'care line' alarms round her neck.
> Unfortunately, the careline people did not pass on a message that her
> relatives were away on holiday so tried in vain to contact those
> relatives. By the time they'd contacted anyone useful, her house had
> burned down.
> If she'd had a simple mobile phone round her neck instead, she might
> have had a chance of survival.
If the careline people had the intelligence to call the emergency services,
she would have stood an even better chance.
Re: 999/112 Urban myth? 
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