Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a technical
level confirm which of the following is correct.
To start with, I have always understood that:
a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
network locking
However I was recently told that 999 only uses your network, but 112
uses any.
I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a lot of
"vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less phones for emergency
calls and they advertise use of 999.
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:55:17 GMT, Tommy <tommy@t.om.myy> wrote:
>> b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
>> network locking
>
>Your phone will try to, but can only make emergency calls on its own
>network.
What happens with a SIM-less, unlocked phone?
Are you saying if it is locked, it will only use the locked network?
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:55:17 GMT, Tommy <tommy@t.om.myy> wrote:
>
>>> b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
>>> network locking
>>
>>Your phone will try to, but can only make emergency calls on its own
>>network.
>
> What happens with a SIM-less, unlocked phone?
You'd be unable to make emergency calls.
> Are you saying if it is locked, it will only use the locked network?
No, a network will only let a phone make calls including emergency calls
if it has a SIM for that network. It's nothing to do with a phone being
locked.
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:08:57 GMT, Tommy <tommy@t.om.myy> wrote:
>> What happens with a SIM-less, unlocked phone?
>
>You'd be unable to make emergency calls.
>
>> Are you saying if it is locked, it will only use the locked network?
>
>No, a network will only let a phone make calls including emergency calls
>if it has a SIM for that network. It's nothing to do with a phone being
>locked.
>
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:13:40 +0000, Jim wrote:
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:08:57 GMT, Tommy <tommy@t.om.myy> wrote:
>
>>> What happens with a SIM-less, unlocked phone?
>>
>>You'd be unable to make emergency calls.
>
> OK, related question then.
>
> How do these "vulnerable people" schemes work then? Do they have
> special SIM's?
I'd think they just carry a mobile with a PAYG sim in it?
"Jim" <nospam@raynet-uk.net> wrote in message
news:egrru2t5ap8j5d2abob6ee1mjs7rouvn7v@4ax.com
> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a
> technical level confirm which of the following is correct.
>
> To start with, I have always understood that:
> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
Yes.
> b) your phone will use any available network,
> irrespective of SIM or network locking
No.
> However I was recently told that 999 only uses your
> network, but 112 uses any.
No.
> I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a
> lot of "vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less
> phones for emergency calls and they advertise use of 999.
No SIM, no call.
> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise, if it has a valid,
working SIM. End of story.
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 23:55:57 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>"Jim" <nospam@raynet-uk.net> wrote in message
>news:egrru2t5ap8j5d2abob6ee1mjs7rouvn7v@4ax.com
>> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a
>> technical level confirm which of the following is correct.
>>
>> To start with, I have always understood that:
>> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
>
>Yes.
>
>> b) your phone will use any available network,
>> irrespective of SIM or network locking
>
>No.
>
>> However I was recently told that 999 only uses your
>> network, but 112 uses any.
>
>No.
>
>> I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a
>> lot of "vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less
>> phones for emergency calls and they advertise use of 999.
>
>No SIM, no call.
>
>> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
>
>Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise, if it has a valid,
>working SIM. End of story.
>
>Ivor
>
well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
a SIM in ?
--
XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop
"BORG" <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
>>
>>> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
>>
>>Any phone can only make a call, emergency or otherwise, if it has a valid,
>>working SIM. End of story.
>>
>>Ivor
>>
>
If you want to a phone that will roam to any available network in an
emergency, then you will need to get a foreign SIM. I believe there are
some very nice one from Liechtenstein.
>
>
> well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
> a SIM in ?
Because in some jurisdictions you can.
> --
>
> XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
> XV1000 TR1 Chop ** XLH1200 Sporty Chop
>
> obet@jryfutbi.pb.hx [Rot 13 it]
nospam@raynet-uk.net declared for all the world to hear...
> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a technical
> level confirm which of the following is correct.
>
> To start with, I have always understood that:
> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
> b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
> network locking
DOn't know about a, but b is bollocks.
> However I was recently told that 999 only uses your network, but 112
> uses any.
In the UK a mobile phone can only use the network of the SIM card
inserted in it. There are no national roaming agreements that permit
network A traffic to run over network B.
(I'm ignoring the 3/orange/02 situation as this is not roaming as far as
the end user is concerned)
> I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a lot of
> "vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less phones for emergency
> calls and they advertise use of 999.
Are there? None of them will work then.
> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
To dial 999 from a mobile you need a functional SIM card and you need to
be in range of the network.
--
Regards
Jon
nospam@raynet-uk.net declared for all the world to hear...
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:08:57 GMT, Tommy <tommy@t.om.myy> wrote:
>
> >> What happens with a SIM-less, unlocked phone?
> >
> >You'd be unable to make emergency calls.
>
> OK, related question then.
>
> How do these "vulnerable people" schemes work then? Do they have
> special SIM's?
No, they would have to have ordinary SIMs.
--
Regards
Jon
Jim wrote:
> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a technical
> level confirm which of the following is correct.
>
> To start with, I have always understood that:
> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
> b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
> network locking
>
> However I was recently told that 999 only uses your network, but 112
> uses any.
>
> I don't see how the latter can be true, as there are a lot of
> "vulnerable people" schemes that use old SIM-less phones for emergency
> calls and they advertise use of 999.
>
> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jim
IIRC, the GSM standards refer to 112 as the one and only internationally
binding emergency number. However, 999 or 911 (for the US) might work as
well. I understand that in the UK emergency calls would not be routed
without a valid SIM in the phone, in Germany for example they definitly
would. IIRC it is only the 112 but this one definitly, irrespectively of
any SIM, phone lock or whatsoever (provided the phone is technically ok
and just any network provides coverage). Even works on phones with key
lock on without releasing the key lock.
As I understand it when you dial 999/112/911? the phone interprets this as an
emergency call and actually sends a GSM emergency call code to the network,
hence dialing 911 or 999 in North America would work, is this true or another
myth?
"Jim" <nospam@raynet-uk.net> wrote in message
news:egrru2t5ap8j5d2abob6ee1mjs7rouvn7v@4ax.com...
> Please would someone who is in the mobile industry at a technical
> level confirm which of the following is correct.
>
> To start with, I have always understood that:
> a) 999 & 112 are functionally identical
> b) your phone will use any available network, irrespective of SIM or
> network locking
>
> Have I been told an urban myth? Which is correct?
I think where this stems from is, that originally there was a European wide
plan for mobile phone to be able to connect to an emergency number and
bypassing the normal conditions of having the correc sim/ a sim or credit on
your sim. This was implemented in a number of European countries but the UK
networks decided that they didn't want to offer this service.
This may have been down to the fact that a higher percentage of phones are
subsidised and therefore network locked in the UK than the other countries.
>> A lot of phones will allow you to make 999 calls without any SIM
>> installed.
>
> Indeed. However in the UK the call will not connect.
>
> Try it. And when you have done, post back here.
> --
> Regards
> Jon
I was discussing this very question with a friend the other day, and we had
both always assumed that a phone WITH a SIM, but not in range of its own
network, would be able to roam for the purposes of making an emergency call.
It is after all part of the GSM spec.
I was in a position to try it recently, and as Jon says could not place the
call - the UK networks have clearly not implemented this. I wonder how many
people have died as a result of this policy / assumption?
On 7 Mar, 10:06, "Benedict Addis" <n...@theale.uk> wrote:
> >> A lot of phones will allow you to make 999 calls without any SIM
> >> installed.
>
> > Indeed. However in the UK the call will not connect.
>
> > Try it. And when you have done, post back here.
> > --
> > Regards
> > Jon
>
> I was discussing this very question with a friend the other day, and we had
> both always assumed that a phone WITH a SIM, but not in range of its own
> network, would be able to roam for the purposes of making an emergency call.
> It is after all part of the GSM spec.
>
> I was in a position to try it recently, and as Jon says could not place the
> call - the UK networks have clearly not implemented this. I wonder how many
> people have died as a result of this policy / assumption?
>
> Benedict.
I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
mobiles? Or before that without phones!
On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 00:37:34 +0000, BORG <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote:
>
>well how come my N70 says emergency calls only when I start it without
>a SIM in ?
Because the GSM specification requires phones to try to make such
calls. However, in the UK (and some other countries) nothing happens
as the networks have chosen not to accept these calls.
--
Peter Parry |Hemel Hempstead| tel +44 (0)1442 212855 |
WPP Ltd |Herts, UK | fax +44 (0)7989 853112 |
Antenna solutions for car, caravan, house, office, boat
and tent.
Allgon 1800 Signal Enhancers now GBP20.
"Usenet User" <usenetuser@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
>
> I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> mobiles? Or before that without phones!
More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of things
that are now curable by medicines.
On 7 Mar, 12:27, Phil<p...@thecork.trig222.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> "Usenet User" <usenetu...@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
>
> > I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> > all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> > mobiles? Or before that without phones!
>
> More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of things
> that are now curable by medicines.
>
> IMO the previous posters question stands.
The risk obviously isn't large enough for Ofcom to intervene -- and
that's probably because there is so little difference in the coverage
of the mobile networks.
"Jim" <nospam@raynet-uk.net> wrote in message
news:8btru2hlqkv1daarb97lq9o4dmud3hm756@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:08:57 GMT, Tommy <tommy@t.om.myy> wrote:
>
>>> What happens with a SIM-less, unlocked phone?
>>
>>You'd be unable to make emergency calls.
>
> OK, related question then.
>
> How do these "vulnerable people" schemes work then? Do they have
> special SIM's?
I've never heard of these schemes - what exactly are they?
"Usenet User" <usenetuser@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1173272538.093769.321490@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
> On 7 Mar, 12:27, Phil<p...@thecork.trig222.f9.co.uk> wrote:
>> "Usenet User" <usenetu...@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
>>
>> > I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
>> > all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
>> > mobiles? Or before that without phones!
>>
>> More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of
>> things
>> that are now curable by medicines.
>>
>> IMO the previous posters question stands.
>
> The risk obviously isn't large enough for Ofcom to intervene -- and
> that's probably because there is so little difference in the coverage
> of the mobile networks.
Most likely. Would only really be a benefit in countries where there are
several regional operators, rather than a handful of operators with national
coverage.
On 07 Mar 2007 09:26:26 +0000, Phil<pj@thecork.trig222.f9.co.uk>
wrote:
>As I understand it when you dial 999/112/911? the phone interprets this as an
>emergency call and actually sends a GSM emergency call code to the network,
>hence dialing 911 or 999 in North America would work, is this true or another
>myth?
I think that apart from 112, which is always treated as an emergency
call, it depends on the phone and whether it recognises the number
dialled as an emergency number. Some phones allow the list of such
numbers to be configured in the UI, but my current one (9300) seems
not to.
> "Usenet User" <usenetuser@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1173272538.093769.321490@p10g2000cwp.googlegr oups.com...
> > On 7 Mar, 12:27, Phil<p...@thecork.trig222.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> >> "Usenet User" <usenetu...@hotmail.co.uk> writes:
> >>
> >> > I wonder how many people have died for not carrying a mobile phone at
> >> > all. How did the last generation survive in an emergency without
> >> > mobiles? Or before that without phones!
> >>
> >> More would have died, in the past people used to die of all sorts of
> >> things
> >> that are now curable by medicines.
> >>
> >> IMO the previous posters question stands.
> >
> > The risk obviously isn't large enough for Ofcom to intervene -- and
> > that's probably because there is so little difference in the coverage
> > of the mobile networks.
>
> Most likely. Would only really be a benefit in countries where there are
> several regional operators, rather than a handful of operators with national
> coverage.
I suspect there are large areas of the highlands where that are not covered by
all 4 networks.
Phil wrote:
>
>
> I suspect there are large areas of the highlands where that are not covered by
> all 4 networks.
>
From personal experience, I know this to be true - although it has
improved somewhat over the past few years.
999/112 Urban myth? 
Linear Mode
