Cashback deal unpaid - when/how to escalate claim?

noel.wester@webtribe.net wrote:
> Reestit Mutton wrote:
>
>>If a retailer decides that it doesn't have to pay any attention to the
>>courts then it only takes a word in the network's ear, with a copy of
>>the judgement and their supply could be cut off. If a single customer
>>has little effect in this area, a pattern of such behaviour would
>>certainly result in the supply being cut off.
>>
>
>
> Whilst I bow to your undoubted expert knowledge in the field of mobile
> communications (as evidenced by your excellent website), I think you
> are being naive here.
>
> Money talks.
>
> If someone's putting £50k (say) worth of business per month my way
> (not unlikely in this industry) I certainly wouldn't come down too hard
> on them if I get a letter from a disgruntled customer telling me their
> business practices are borderline.
>
> It always makes me laugh that computer magazines undertake "impartial"
> reviews of machines from retailers. Yeah, Dell are putting £100k per
> month of advertising revenue their way so they're really going to say
> "this Dell machine is awful, don't buy it".
>
> Money talks.
>

However...

It's a known fact that Networks have massively culled outbound call
centres recently because of the volume of bad press that they have
generated due to the habitual misrepresentation employed by some of them
("Hello Sir, this is Orange calling to tell you that you are entitled to
a 10% line rental discount as a loyalty bonus").

If a retailer has every intention of ignoring a portion of its customers
to the point of receiving a court summons (in the hope that a portion
of affected customers simply give up) and then ignoring the judgements
set against them then the same body of steam will build up and the
networks will eventually act, in the first instance by dropping any
direct relationship and in the second instance by placing particularly
bad retailers on blacklists that distributors shouldn't deal with.

It has happened in the past (though not necessarily because of cashback
related issues).

One further point to note is that networks have always hated the
cashback phenomenon. They've just not known how to effectively curb it.
Chances are that the type of retailer that would find itself in this
situation is also the type of retailer that would attract exactly the
wrong kind of customer for the network (one that decreases its average
customer's monthly spend and increases its annual churn rate). It would
likely also be in the network's interest to nip that retailer in the bud
and improve its financial stats in one fell swoop.

Just my two penn'orth...maybe naive...maybe not...

cheers,
RM
--
www.reestitmutton.co.uk

Bringing you the best-value mobile phone contract deals in the UK
Presented the way it should be...in plain English

Reestit Mutton wrote:
>
> If a retailer has every intention of ignoring a portion of its customers
> to the point of receiving a court summons (in the hope that a portion
> of affected customers simply give up) and then ignoring the judgements
> set against them then the same body of steam will build up and the
> networks will eventually act, in the first instance by dropping any
> direct relationship and in the second instance by placing particularly
> bad retailers on blacklists that distributors shouldn't deal with.

I'm sure the cashback retailers couldn't give a rats about their
customer relations, because they know that by definition us
'cashbackers' are complete tarts when it comes to mobile contracts and
will happily jump between networks and dealers every 12 months.

The other thing is that the whole cashback thing IMHO really doesn't
seem particularly well known about among the general public; it must
represent a very small proportion of the market. And of those punters
who do buy cashback contracts, I wonder how many of those will go on to
dig around and come up with details of court cases such as the one I'm
about to unleash on BMP.net?!

David

Lobster wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:03:56 GMT, Lobster
>> <davidlobsterpot601@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> SWMBO and I both have substantial outstanding cashback applications;
>>> one from buymobilephones and one from phones2udirect; both sent in by
>>> recorded delivery on 31 July. Both are the first cashbacks applied
>>> for on the respective contracts; in both cases I followed the complex
>>> instructions to the letter

> (OP update!: phones2udirect finally emailed SWMBO back yesterday to say
> her claim had been 'escalated'; BMP still keeping schtum on me so I've
> just written my Final Notice letter which will go out Recorded Delivery
> tomorrow...)

OP's update 2:

Posted my Final Notice letter to buymobilephones.net on 25 September;
this morning (28 September) I received my cheque!

Hope this info might be of use to someone else...

David

Lobster wrote:
> Lobster wrote:
>
>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:03:56 GMT, Lobster
>>> <davidlobsterpot601@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> SWMBO and I both have substantial outstanding cashback applications;
>>>> one from buymobilephones and one from phones2udirect; both sent in
>>>> by recorded delivery on 31 July. Both are the first cashbacks
>>>> applied for on the respective contracts; in both cases I followed
>>>> the complex instructions to the letter
>
>
>> (OP update!: phones2udirect finally emailed SWMBO back yesterday to
>> say her claim had been 'escalated'; BMP still keeping schtum on me so
>> I've just written my Final Notice letter which will go out Recorded
>> Delivery tomorrow...)
>
>
> OP's update 2:
>
> Posted my Final Notice letter to buymobilephones.net on 25 September;
> this morning (28 September) I received my cheque!
>
> Hope this info might be of use to someone else...
>
> David

Lobster

Many thanks for coming back to us with your news.

I am sure that it will help other people in a similar situation.

It is almost certain that you would have got your money, eventually.

But the economics of giving a free phone + free calls for a year,
requires a 'finger on the scales' to try and balance the equation.

Perhaps these offers will fade away - or possibly there are still
enough people around who do not read/remember/worry about T&Cs.


well done

Flop

What worries me...... well never mind, I dont want to worry everyone else.

Flop wrote:

> well done
Thanks :-)

> Flop
>
> What worries me...... well never mind, I dont want to worry everyone else.

C'mon, you can't sign off on that: spit it out...

David

Lobster wrote:
> Flop wrote:
>
>> well done
>
> Thanks :-)
>
>> Flop
>>
>> What worries me...... well never mind, I dont want to worry everyone
>> else.
>
>
> C'mon, you can't sign off on that: spit it out...
>
> David

Back to simple economics. The supplier cannot give you free phone
+texts. His profit must come from the 'dropouts' who forget or miss by a
couple of days. Suppose he sells a £30 per month contract having been
paid £250 for it to the service provider. So he has to pay out £360 and
has received £250. If 50% fail to successfully reclaim their cashback,
he makes £70 profit per transactions. [ These are example figures - I
would love to know what sort of discount they get]

Now, the supplier has to decide what to do when you ( and everyone else)
threaten legal action. Especially if he has to travel a significant
distance to your local court. Ignore his likelihood of winning - it is
the threat which is critical. How much will it cost him to defend it?

The bottom line is - no cashbacks ie free phones for the organised.


That is what worries me

Flop

Flop wrote:
> Lobster wrote:
>> Flop wrote:
>>
>>> well done
>>
>> Thanks :-)
>>
>>> Flop
>>>
>>> What worries me...... well never mind, I dont want to worry everyone
>>> else.
>>
>>
>> C'mon, you can't sign off on that: spit it out...
>>
>> David
>
> Back to simple economics. The supplier cannot give you free phone
> +texts. His profit must come from the 'dropouts' who forget or miss by a
> couple of days. Suppose he sells a £30 per month contract having been
> paid £250 for it to the service provider. So he has to pay out £360 and
> has received £250. If 50% fail to successfully reclaim their cashback,
> he makes £70 profit per transactions. [ These are example figures - I
> would love to know what sort of discount they get]
>
> Now, the supplier has to decide what to do when you ( and everyone else)
> threaten legal action. Especially if he has to travel a significant
> distance to your local court. Ignore his likelihood of winning - it is
> the threat which is critical. How much will it cost him to defend it?
>
> The bottom line is - no cashbacks ie free phones for the organised.
>
>
> That is what worries me

Not quite with you... are you just saying that the 'cashback bonanza'
will end if and when enough punters successfully get their cashbacks? I
think that's a given, isn't it?

David

Flop wrote:
>
> The bottom line is - no cashbacks ie free phones for the organised.
>
>
> That is what worries me
>

Indeed, the whole industry seems to have based its business model on
the premise of complicated t&c's and absent minded punters. It might
well be working but it isn't a sound structure.

It isn't rocket science to work out that (in my current case for
example) a free Motorola v3im, 3 months free phone insurance, a pack of
free accessories, 250 free x-network anytime minutes (doubled for the
first 3 months), 100 free texts (doubled for the first 3 months) and 12
months "free" line rental is going to cost somebody some serious money
if I remember to claim properly.

"Lobster" <davidlobsterpot601@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:LNTSg.72921$DB3.27985@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
> Lobster wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:03:56 GMT, Lobster
>>> <davidlobsterpot601@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> SWMBO and I both have substantial outstanding cashback applications;
>>>> one from buymobilephones and one from phones2udirect; both sent in by
>>>> recorded delivery on 31 July. Both are the first cashbacks applied for
>>>> on the respective contracts; in both cases I followed the complex
>>>> instructions to the letter
>
>> (OP update!: phones2udirect finally emailed SWMBO back yesterday to say
>> her claim had been 'escalated'; BMP still keeping schtum on me so I've
>> just written my Final Notice letter which will go out Recorded Delivery
>> tomorrow...)
>
> OP's update 2:
>
> Posted my Final Notice letter to buymobilephones.net on 25 September; this
> morning (28 September) I received my cheque!
>
> Hope this info might be of use to someone else...
>
> David
David, I hate to pour cold water on our concerns, but I also have two £35 a
month deals with BMP and their terms and conditions do say that they will
pay within 56 days, and they do make you wait that long, but it is in the
T&Cs.

So by my reckoning, 31st July to 28th September is 60 days inclusive so
allowing for postage they have made you wait the full 56 days which they are
entiltled to do.

I am due my second lot of payments on 14 October, so we will have to wait
and see !!!

DeeBee

I have got same problem with e2save. Is there anyway to get my cash
back?




--
zircon

zircon wrote:
> I have got same problem with e2save. Is there anyway to get my cash
> back?
>
>
>
>
Lets take this one step at a time:

1) Have you kept a copy of their T&Cs at the time of purchase? If not -
pray.

2) Have you read the T&Cs?

3) Have you read the T&Cs carefully - one word at a time? ( A previous
writer said that one supplier would pay in 56 days. They didnt, they
only said 'contact us after 56 days'"

4) If you need vouchers, did you get them? If not - and you have no
record of asking for them, pray.

5) Have you followed the instructions exactly and within time periods
specified?

6) Did you send any documents by Recorded or Special Delivery? Have you
checked and kept a copy of the Royal Mail tracking? They only last six
months (AFAIK) on the RM website.

7) Have you only written/e-mailed the supplier? Any phone conversation
is worthless.

8) If you have done everything by the book, write them a 'Letter before
Action' giving account/invoice details, why you believe they owe you
money and how much. Include a time scale (14days?).

9) If this fails to achieve a response, issue a Count Court claim
through www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/


If you have fallen at any of the hurdles, either give up or try and
bluff your way through.

best of luck

Flop