I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really what I
expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
for documents, spreadsheets etc.
I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
internet access?
It's not really what I was looking for
"DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote in message
news:bZ-dnbC-b8rpN-TXnZ2dnUVZ8t-dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
>
> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
> before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really what I
> expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
> for documents, spreadsheets etc.
> I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages,
> emails etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the
> iphone.
> I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
> storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
> internet access?
> It's not really what I was looking for
You're a PC.
The iPhone is crap - all design and no substance. But it sells and sells
well.
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:51:02 +0100, "DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote:
>I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
>before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG.
Goodness me, why on PAYG?!n
>Not sure really what I
>expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
>for documents, spreadsheets etc.
DataCase or AirSharing have functionality for storing documents and
sharing them over your WiFi network. I'm sure there are others too.
In addition to this as a MobileMe subscriber you can use the iDisk app
to access your files over the mobile network or Wireless.
>I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
>etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
I suggeset you throw your iPhone away and get the most basic Nokia.
>I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
>storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
>internet access?
The same thing you would do on any mobile phone when you want to edit
documents without internet access to your online drive, I'm guessing?
>It's not really what I was looking for
Whenever I buy any new phones for business or pleasure I always looks
at the specs on the website then look for reviews. You missed this
very important step.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
"DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote in message
news:bZ-dnbC-b8rpN-TXnZ2dnUVZ8t-dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
>
> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
> before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really what I
> expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
> for documents, spreadsheets etc.
> I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages,
> emails etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the
> iphone.
> I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
> storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
> internet access?
> It's not really what I was looking for
>
As you and a million others have discovered.
But you can run GrindR as demonstrated by Stephen Fry on Top Gear
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:51:02 +0100, "DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote:
>
>I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
>before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really what I
>expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
>for documents, spreadsheets etc.
>I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
>etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
>I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
>storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
>internet access?
>It's not really what I was looking for
That's why I did a bit of research and went for the HTC TP2 instead!
On Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:55:55 +0100, BGN <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
wrote:
>>I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
>>etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
>
>I suggeset you throw your iPhone away and get the most basic Nokia.
;-)
It is true though isn't it. When Apple first launched the iPhone it
lacked many of the features that it seems most people would expect on
even a £20 PAYG phone. Then they slowly add the features as they
launch new versions, keeping the fans spending their hard earned.
I like the latest iPhone TV advert, what was it, ".. now with video" !
;-)
If you wanted a PDA / Business phone and / or particularly liked Apple
gear then I guess it could hit the spot (although a businessman I know
bought 5 and has since replaced them all with 'normal' phones [1]) but
even according to many iPhone fans they don't make particularly good
'telephones'?
So maybe it's actually off topic discussing iPhones here at all and it
should be held in expensive.pda or some such?
However, on that count and from what I've heard / read that if you
wanted to (say) to find a Prostitute in Istanbul, by bus stop and
near an Indian restaurant ... "there's an app for that". [2] ;-)
T i m
[1] I know of two other people who were sent iPhones as sweeteners by
O2 (they were threatening to leave) and one sent his back after a week
and went for a different touch screen phone and the other sent it back
and left O2 anyway. The primary reason in both cases was that it was a
crap 'phone' and they were losing business.
[2] Joking aside it does look like a very powerful and flexible app
platform (once it's been jailbroken of course).
Steve wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:51:02 +0100, "DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote:
>
>> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
>> before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really what I
>> expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
>> for documents, spreadsheets etc.
>> I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
>> etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
>> I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
>> storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
>> internet access?
>> It's not really what I was looking for
>
> That's why I did a bit of research and went for the HTC TP2 instead!
That's what I'm hoping to go for when T-Mobile finally decide to launch
it... I've got a Vario III (HTC Kaiser/TyTn II) at the mo which does
pretty much everything the iPhone does and only cost me £70 for the
(subsidised) handset. The TP2 should add just the few things I'm after
- larger, higher resolution screen being the main thing.
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 09:36:19 +0100, David Hearn
<dave@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>> On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 16:51:02 +0100, "DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had one
>>> before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really what I
>>> expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality - i.e. storage
>>> for documents, spreadsheets etc.
>>> I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
>>> etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
>>> I know there are applications that will allow editing of docs etc but
>>> storage is limited to an online drive - what happens when I can't get
>>> internet access?
>>> It's not really what I was looking for
>>
>> That's why I did a bit of research and went for the HTC TP2 instead!
>
>That's what I'm hoping to go for when T-Mobile finally decide to launch
>it... I've got a Vario III (HTC Kaiser/TyTn II) at the mo which does
>pretty much everything the iPhone does and only cost me £70 for the
>(subsidised) handset. The TP2 should add just the few things I'm after
>- larger, higher resolution screen being the main thing.
>
>D
I really like it. Mine's on a T-Mobile contract and I got it via http://www.mobilephonesdirect.co.uk who seemed ok (I have no
association with them, they just seem the cheapest!)
> Gareth wrote:
> >
>
> > The iPhone is crap - all design and no substance. But it sells and sells
>
> I have a friend who has had two Iphones, both of which failed within weeks.
There are 20 million people with iphones now. Of the people I know (a
tiny proportion of owners, I admit), they generally love them. I only
have an ipod touch, because I wasn't sure if I wanted the phone- but I
think I'll probably get one now. The ipod touch is an astonishinly
versatile thing- but I think I'd rather have the communication abilities
of the phone.
I'm afraid I don't know what the OP is on about. Editing and storing
word documents, spreadsheets etc. is easy on the ipod touch/iphone. (I
like ispreadsheet for the latter.)
I find it indispensable on trips now- I store reading material
(including books and sheet music), trip itineraries, maps, language
dictionaries, you name it. And of course, music, videos and the like.
My major complaint with the itouch/iphone is the lack of flash support
in the browser. This can apparently be gotten around by hacking it, but
is still a serious flaw in my opinion. But the bewildering variety of
apps available makes it very versatile. I use the iplayer a lot more on
the ipod than I do on my computer...
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"[Do you think the world learned anything from the first
world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009)
DJH wrote:
>
> I must admit I'm a bit disappointed with my new iphone. I've never had
> one before but bit the bullet and bought a 3GS on PAYG. Not sure really
> what I expected but I DID expect it to have business functionality -
> i.e. storage for documents, spreadsheets etc.
The iPhone platform is really for technical tinkerers who relish the
opertunity to experiment with random wireless applications on top of an
iPod device. For most people in business, this ability is over the top
and interferes with the standard use expected of a mobile phone such as
making calls. However, there may be a business that have implemented
some enterprise software specific to the wireless abilities of the
platform - only then could you say the iPhone has business "use".
For others, it is far short of the abilities of a PC (or netbook), and
one of those (with a 3G stick) - and a standard mobile for communication
is a better be.
I do have an iPod touch - Great device, I will use the word "Toy" to
describe my enjoyment of it. The iPhone also is Toy, an iToy - and is
being bought casually as that.
"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1j416bu.1c40dek4jldikN%d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk...
> mikeos <mikeos3@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I find it indispensable on trips now- I store reading material
> (including books and sheet music), trip itineraries, maps, language
> dictionaries, you name it. And of course, music, videos and the like.
> I'm afraid I don't know what the OP is on about. Editing and storing
> word documents, spreadsheets etc. is easy on the ipod touch/iphone. (I
> like ispreadsheet for the latter.)
where, on the iphone (as opposed to a virtual drive) can you store and edit
any kind of document or spreadsheet??
> > I'm afraid I don't know what the OP is on about. Editing and storing
> > word documents, spreadsheets etc. is easy on the ipod touch/iphone. (I
> > like ispreadsheet for the latter.)
>
>
> where, on the iphone (as opposed to a virtual drive) can you store and edit
> any kind of document or spreadsheet??
Anywhere you like is the simple answer, but various apps create folders
and directories on the iphone where these can be stored. You can create
them yourself actually, though it takes a little bit of tweaking- the
apps make the process easier and give a gui etc.
--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"[Do you think the world learned anything from the first
world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009)
On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:00:12 +0100, "DJH" <spam@spamspams.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid I don't know what the OP is on about. Editing and storing
>> word documents, spreadsheets etc. is easy on the ipod touch/iphone. (I
>> like ispreadsheet for the latter.)
>
>
>where, on the iphone (as opposed to a virtual drive) can you store and edit
>any kind of document or spreadsheet??
1) The 16Gb of storage and 2) iSpreadsheet Free (Free) if you only
want Google Docs support or just open iTunes and go to the AppStore
and type 'spreadsheet' in the search box. Documents 2 Free (Free)
seems to do it and you can even email your spreadsheet around, or use
it as a wireless hard drive so your other machines can log in and suck
the files off or there's Spreadsheet by Softalk which looks rather
more powerful and is £4.99 which seems to get rather good reviews.
There are so many hits in the AppStore for Spreadsheet and Word or
Office that one would have to be blind to not notice all of the
possibilities.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 08:34:47 +0100, T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>I also expected to be able to change the ringtone for text messages, emails
>>>etc. I can do this on even the most basic Nokia yet not on the iphone.
>>
>>I suggeset you throw your iPhone away and get the most basic Nokia.
>
>;-)
>
>It is true though isn't it. When Apple first launched the iPhone it
>lacked many of the features that it seems most people would expect on
>even a £20 PAYG phone. Then they slowly add the features as they
>launch new versions, keeping the fans spending their hard earned.
They didn't slowly add features. There was the iPhone 1 platform
which was first generation, in the free upgrade to all iPhone users in
their new OS 2 they introduced the AppStore which has well over
1,000,000,000 downloads at the moment and thousands and thousands and
thousands of apps. Now iPhone OS is on version 3 (which all iPhone
users get for free) which adds even more features to the AppStore API
so that even more stuff can be done.
>I like the latest iPhone TV advert, what was it, ".. now with video" !
>;-)
When I first saw that advert I wondered what they were on about. All
iPhones and have always been able to deal with video. The iPhone 3GS
now includes RECORDING video. I'm not sure why Apple didn't include
this on all releases of the OS in the past as the camera seems
perfectly capable of video recording and unofficial apps for the
original iPhone enabled video + audio capture.
>If you wanted a PDA / Business phone and / or particularly liked Apple
>gear then I guess it could hit the spot (although a businessman I know
>bought 5 and has since replaced them all with 'normal' phones [1])...
I know a number of business which have replaced their fleet of
Blackberry handsets with iPhones. Apple introduced Exchange support
in the 2.0 OS (Push email, calendar, etc.) which made it into a more
business friendly handset.
>but
>even according to many iPhone fans they don't make particularly good
>'telephones'?
Not sure what this is about, they seem to work rather well as
telephones. One can put calls on hole, switch calls, conference them,
send text messages while on a call, surf t'interweb (via WiFi or 3G)
when on a call and do, well, all the stuff normal telephones do. They
also deal with visual voicemail. So instead of getting a message
notifcation and then calling your voicemail the voicemail is
downloaded ot your iPhone as audio files and the voicemail feature of
the Phone app then lets you swap between voicemails, save, delete,
move through the message by moving the progress indicator. If you
delete a voicemail on your phone then it gets deleted from the
old-style voicemail (ie. ring up voicemail by dialling). It doesn't
make the phone any better or worse than another phone, but I'm not
exactly sure why someone would think it didn't make a particularly
good telephone. It's a phone, it works as one.
>So maybe it's actually off topic discussing iPhones here at all and it
>should be held in expensive.pda or some such?
I use my iPhone more for data than I do for voice. People discuss the
iPod Touch in the iPod newsgroups even though it does everything the
iPhone does (but without the phone) so it would seem appropriate to
discuss the iPhone in uk.telecom.mobile because the iPhone is a phone
in addition to being everything else and a touch-screen iPod.
>However, on that count and from what I've heard / read that if you
>wanted to (say) to find a Prostitute in Istanbul, by bus stop and
>near an Indian restaurant ... "there's an app for that". [2] ;-)
There are apps for just about anything, from 'gay social networking'
with GPS to flashlights to ebook readers to satnav to RSS apps to 3D
games like Assasins Creed or Super Monkey Ball. There's even an app
to find suppliers of 'non-prescription' drugs in the US AppStore.
>[2] Joking aside it does look like a very powerful and flexible app
>platform (once it's been jailbroken of course).
It's a very powerful and flexible app platform without being
jailbroken. The iPhone SDK is rather comprehensive but prevents apps
from accessing stuff which Apple would rather keep private. One
wouldn't want an app to go and upload the contents of your phonebook
to their own server or silently activate GPS to track your location.
Those who jailbreak their iPhone do so and get the same stuff that's
in the SDK but get to execute unsigned code.
I have a 'flashlight' app which I had on my old jailbroken iPhone. On
the jailbroken version of the app from a couple of years ago when the
app was activated it would then turn the lamp on the iPhone to full so
the screen was brighter. The version written for the iPhone SDK does
the same flashlight feature but changing the brightness of the lamp
doesn't happen. This, I imagine, is because the iPhone SDK doesn't
include a call for changing the lamp brightness leaving the brightness
control down to the iPhone OS and environment sensor.
Jailbroken apps and iPhone SDK apps are developed on the same
platform: Xcode which comes with all macs and is free to download from
Apple.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:58:15 +0100, BGN <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
wrote:
>>It is true though isn't it. When Apple first launched the iPhone it
>>lacked many of the features that it seems most people would expect on
>>even a £20 PAYG phone. Then they slowly add the features as they
>>launch new versions, keeping the fans spending their hard earned.
>
>They didn't slowly add features. There was the iPhone 1 platform
>which was first generation, in the free upgrade to all iPhone users in
>their new OS 2 they introduced the AppStore which has well over
>1,000,000,000 downloads at the moment and thousands and thousands and
>thousands of apps. Now iPhone OS is on version 3 (which all iPhone
>users get for free) which adds even more features to the AppStore API
>so that even more stuff can be done.
So the first iPhone can do the exact same things as the latest iPhone?
>
>>I like the latest iPhone TV advert, what was it, ".. now with video" !
>>;-)
>
>When I first saw that advert I wondered what they were on about. All
>iPhones and have always been able to deal with video. The iPhone 3GS
>now includes RECORDING video.
Indeed. Along with picture messaging, bluetooth to another phone, user
creatable ring tones and a removable battery, the basic of most
features for many other phones?
> I'm not sure why Apple didn't include
>this on all releases of the OS in the past as the camera seems
>perfectly capable of video recording and unofficial apps for the
>original iPhone enabled video + audio capture.
Me neither ... maybe Apple like to drip-feed the excitement? ;-)
>
>>If you wanted a PDA / Business phone and / or particularly liked Apple
>>gear then I guess it could hit the spot (although a businessman I know
>>bought 5 and has since replaced them all with 'normal' phones [1])...
>
>I know a number of business which have replaced their fleet of
>Blackberry handsets with iPhones. Apple introduced Exchange support
>in the 2.0 OS (Push email, calendar, etc.) which made it into a more
>business friendly handset.
Ok
>
>>but
>>even according to many iPhone fans they don't make particularly good
>>'telephones'?
>
>Not sure what this is about, they seem to work rather well as
>telephones.
Not how I understand it they don't.
<snip extras feature list)
> It's a phone, it works as one.
No, that's the point, they are *supposed* to be a phone and they
(according to many people, inc many 'Mac fans') aren't as good at
being a phone (as opposed to a PDA) as many other cheaper / simpler
'phones'. Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
in said places.
>
>>So maybe it's actually off topic discussing iPhones here at all and it
>>should be held in expensive.pda or some such?
>
>I use my iPhone more for data than I do for voice.
I wonder why? ;-)
> People discuss the
>iPod Touch in the iPod newsgroups even though it does everything the
>iPhone does (but without the phone) so it would seem appropriate to
>discuss the iPhone in uk.telecom.mobile because the iPhone is a phone
>in addition to being everything else and a touch-screen iPod.
Sort of a phone, yes. I'll stick with my Palm T|X and Nokia 6310i ta.
;-)
>
>>However, on that count and from what I've heard / read that if you
>>wanted to (say) to find a Prostitute in Istanbul, by bus stop and
>>near an Indian restaurant ... "there's an app for that". [2] ;-)
>
>There are apps for just about anything, from 'gay social networking'
Just out of interest, have things ever existed for other phones /
platforms? Does the fact it exists on the iPhone say anything about
it's association with 'lifestyle' products or the typical user in
general?
>with GPS to flashlights to ebook readers to satnav to RSS apps to 3D
>games like Assasins Creed or Super Monkey Ball. There's even an app
>to find suppliers of 'non-prescription' drugs in the US AppStore.
I think all that might be nice as a novelty (and I know who've done
some neat stuff with yer iPhone as a GPS etc) but I'm pretty sure I
would find all the sort of stuff I *need* lacking via the iPhone.
Like, I use my GPS(s) on the motorbike and cycle, out in the elements.
I don't want to worry about it getting wet or putting in a tank bag. I
don't want a contract phone and don't want to spend much over £20 for
a PAYG phone.
>
>>[2] Joking aside it does look like a very powerful and flexible app
>>platform (once it's been jailbroken of course).
>
>It's a very powerful and flexible app platform without being
>jailbroken. The iPhone SDK is rather comprehensive but prevents apps
>from accessing stuff which Apple would rather keep private. One
>wouldn't want an app to go and upload the contents of your phonebook
>to their own server or silently activate GPS to track your location.
>Those who jailbreak their iPhone do so and get the same stuff that's
>in the SDK but get to execute unsigned code.
Meh.
>
>I have a 'flashlight' app which I had on my old jailbroken iPhone. On
>the jailbroken version of the app from a couple of years ago when the
>app was activated it would then turn the lamp on the iPhone to full so
>the screen was brighter. The version written for the iPhone SDK does
>the same flashlight feature but changing the brightness of the lamp
>doesn't happen. This, I imagine, is because the iPhone SDK doesn't
>include a call for changing the lamp brightness leaving the brightness
>control down to the iPhone OS and environment sensor.
I have some nice torches. ;-)
>
>Jailbroken apps and iPhone SDK apps are developed on the same
>platform: Xcode which comes with all macs and is free to download from
>Apple.
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:53:59 +0100, T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:58:15 +0100, BGN <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
>wrote:
>
>>>It is true though isn't it. When Apple first launched the iPhone it
>>>lacked many of the features that it seems most people would expect on
>>>even a £20 PAYG phone. Then they slowly add the features as they
>>>launch new versions, keeping the fans spending their hard earned.
>>
>>They didn't slowly add features. There was the iPhone 1 platform
>>which was first generation, in the free upgrade to all iPhone users in
>>their new OS 2 they introduced the AppStore which has well over
>>1,000,000,000 downloads at the moment and thousands and thousands and
>>thousands of apps. Now iPhone OS is on version 3 (which all iPhone
>>users get for free) which adds even more features to the AppStore API
>>so that even more stuff can be done.
>
>So the first iPhone can do the exact same things as the latest iPhone?
They all run the iPhone 3.0 platform now so are just as capable as
each other. OBVIOUSLY any hardware differences will still be there,
but Apple said when they launched the iPod Touch & iPhone that people
needed to be able to be able to depend on the software and
compatability with future models. For example, the original iPhone
didn't have GPS whereas the iPhone 3G and 3GS do (although the 3GS has
a magnetic compass in addition to GPS) so when an app needs location
based services (nearest petrol station, google maps, etc.) on the
iPhone 3G & 3GS it uses aGPS starting off with the location of the
cell tower(s) and then narrowing it down via GPS - the original iPhone
didn't have GPS so it just uses the locations of the cell towers to
find out where in the world it is. I'm guessing in SatNav apps the
iPhone 3GS will be able to (more swiftly) work out which direction it
is facing because of the magnetic compass, whereas the iPhone 3G would
need to be moving to find this out.
>>>I like the latest iPhone TV advert, what was it, ".. now with video" !
>>>;-)
>>
>>When I first saw that advert I wondered what they were on about. All
>>iPhones and have always been able to deal with video. The iPhone 3GS
>>now includes RECORDING video.
>
>Indeed. Along with picture messaging, bluetooth to another phone, user
>creatable ring tones and a removable battery, the basic of most
>features for many other phones?
MMS is there, bluetooth is there for tethering, user created ringtones
have been there since OS 2.0. Re: Removable battery. The iPhone
battery is capable of 1,000 full (100%) cycles before it loses 10% of
the capacity. A colleague of mine has had the original iPhone since
day 1 and it still has a respectable battery life (1 full 0% to 100%
recharge a day is nearly 3 years. (2x50% recharges = 1 cycle, etc.)
>> I'm not sure why Apple didn't include
>>this on all releases of the OS in the past as the camera seems
>>perfectly capable of video recording and unofficial apps for the
>>original iPhone enabled video + audio capture.
>
>Me neither ... maybe Apple like to drip-feed the excitement? ;-)
I don't get excited about a software update. Apple seem to wait until
software is presentable before releasing it instead of endless
patches.
>>>but
>>>even according to many iPhone fans they don't make particularly good
>>>'telephones'?
>>
>>Not sure what this is about, they seem to work rather well as
>>telephones.
>
>Not how I understand it they don't.
In what way does the iPhone not function as a telephone?
><snip extras feature list)
>
>> It's a phone, it works as one.
>
>No, that's the point, they are *supposed* to be a phone and they
>(according to many people, inc many 'Mac fans') aren't as good at
>being a phone (as opposed to a PDA) as many other cheaper / simpler
>'phones'. Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
>he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
>in said places.
I'm unsure as to what these places are.
>>>So maybe it's actually off topic discussing iPhones here at all and it
>>>should be held in expensive.pda or some such?
>>
>>I use my iPhone more for data than I do for voice.
>
>I wonder why? ;-)
Because I work in IT and use things like Twitter, facebook, email,
Safari...
>> People discuss the
>>iPod Touch in the iPod newsgroups even though it does everything the
>>iPhone does (but without the phone) so it would seem appropriate to
>>discuss the iPhone in uk.telecom.mobile because the iPhone is a phone
>>in addition to being everything else and a touch-screen iPod.
>
>Sort of a phone, yes. I'll stick with my Palm T|X and Nokia 6310i ta.
>;-)
I don't really want to be carrying around two devices.
>>>However, on that count and from what I've heard / read that if you
>>>wanted to (say) to find a Prostitute in Istanbul, by bus stop and
>>>near an Indian restaurant ... "there's an app for that". [2] ;-)
>>
>>There are apps for just about anything, from 'gay social networking'
>
>Just out of interest, have things ever existed for other phones /
>platforms? Does the fact it exists on the iPhone say anything about
>it's association with 'lifestyle' products or the typical user in
>general?
I'm not sure about the mobile front on that, but the app seems to be
well known by people who aren't members of the velvet mafia too, for
some reason.
>>with GPS to flashlights to ebook readers to satnav to RSS apps to 3D
>>games like Assasins Creed or Super Monkey Ball. There's even an app
>>to find suppliers of 'non-prescription' drugs in the US AppStore.
>
>I think all that might be nice as a novelty (and I know who've done
>some neat stuff with yer iPhone as a GPS etc) but I'm pretty sure I
>would find all the sort of stuff I *need* lacking via the iPhone.
Sounds like you've already decided that the iPhone is going to
dissapoint you, so I'm sure it will. But you've stated you're already
happy with your choice of mobile phone and additional PDA. I'm happy
with my mobile phone which also fills the role of PDA plus loads of
other stuff all in one device.
>Like, I use my GPS(s) on the motorbike and cycle, out in the elements.
>I don't want to worry about it getting wet or putting in a tank bag.
For SatNav (touring) on a motorcycle I've never used anything apart
from dedicated GPS units. On a motorcycle tour of Germany a couple of
years ago a friend had some PDA for his satnav in a bag on his BMW and
when it rained (and did it ****ing rain) he ended up turning it off
and putting it away. Never before have I been so cold and wet for so
long but my Garmin StreetPilot 2610 sat in the RAM mount on the bars
plugged into the engine euro-12v power output on my Triumph Tiger 955i
for eight whole hours getting soaked without any cover. It took me
four days to dry my boots out and my leathers were never quite the
same afterwards. I doubt any non-motorcycle satnav system would have
survived such use on a similar journey. My old n95 was my pocket for
the journey and was soaked (but everything was soaked, including me)
but still worked afterwards.
I
>don't want a contract phone and don't want to spend much over £20 for
>a PAYG phone.
I pay £35/mo for my iPhone tariff (although there is a cheaper
package, I think) which is less than what I paid for my Nokia n95 on
T-Mobile with web'n'walk stuck on top of that. It works out cheaper
for me to have an iPhone on contract than it did for an n95 on a
contract with web'n'walk stuck on.
Summary: I'm not trying to convince you to buy an iPhone, you've
stated that you're not going to be happy with an iPhone so the purpose
of my post has been to respond to your questions or queries as a user
of an iPhone and correct where necessary.
When the original iPhone came out there were comparisons between the
Nokia n95 and the iPhone. I know this as I was an n95 user and felt
the same way as you did about the iPhone and said I would never buy
one. Instead I bought an iPod Touch to replaced my aged iPod. The
iPhone and iPod Touch are essentially the same thing (although the
iPod Touch lacks GPS and, well, a phone!) but the interface on the
iPod Touch was so intuitive and easy to use that I fell for it and
after a while I was using my n95 as a WiFi router and my ipod Touch
connected to it via WiFi and I did pretty much all of my work on that.
The n95 was no longer the device that sat next to my bed on the floor
at night which I would pick up and fanny around with, the iPod Touch
was (on WiFi). After a while I decided that I needed an iPod Touch
with a phone in it. So I did. The n95 pissed on the iPhone if you
looked at raw specs (iPhone had 2mp camera, n95 had 5mp, iPhone didn't
do 3G, n95 did 3G, etc.) but the way that the handset interface was
designed was out of this world. Things just work, and they work
quickly and aren't over complicated. Even things like logging into a
WiFi network when a known one is in range is simple - you do nothing,
it logs in without prompting or even mentioning it, no fannying
through menus, no turning WiFi off and on. This list is not
exhaustive.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:22:00 +0100, BGN <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
wrote:
>>
>>So the first iPhone can do the exact same things as the latest iPhone?
>
>They all run the iPhone 3.0 platform now so are just as capable as
>each other. OBVIOUSLY any hardware differences will still be there,
Ah, that was what I was really talking about. My point is they have
just made the iPhone do what any other decent phone has been able to
do for years. They could have made it do all it now does in the first
go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
any other 'phone' at the time.
>but Apple said when they launched the iPod Touch & iPhone that people
>needed to be able to be able to depend on the software and
>compatability with future models.
Ok
<snip>
>>Indeed. Along with picture messaging, bluetooth to another phone, user
>>creatable ring tones and a removable battery, the basic of most
>>features for many other phones?
>
>MMS is there,
'Now'?
> bluetooth is there for tethering,
So not really bluetooth as we know it on most other phones? And why
is it that limiting?
> user created ringtones
>have been there since OS 2.0.
Why not OS 1? It's not like Apple hadn't seen the idea before is it?
> Re: Removable battery. The iPhone
>battery is capable of 1,000 full (100%) cycles before it loses 10% of
>the capacity. A colleague of mine has had the original iPhone since
>day 1 and it still has a respectable battery life (1 full 0% to 100%
>recharge a day is nearly 3 years. (2x50% recharges = 1 cycle, etc.)
I recharge the 6310i once a week (if it needs it). If it does go flat
when I'm out I pop the spare battery in.
<snip>
>
>>Me neither ... maybe Apple like to drip-feed the excitement? ;-)
>
>I don't get excited about a software update. Apple seem to wait until
>software is presentable before releasing it instead of endless
>patches.
Not talking about patches, I'm talking about soft features that could
have been there at the beginning. I mean, it's not like they have
invented much new by the way of a 'phone' have they?
>
<snip>
>>Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
>>he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
>>in said places.
>
>I'm unsure as to what these places are.
Well not a lift or the underground, I'm talking ordinary places where
you would expect your phone to work (not specific places). Places
where the other phone [1] he carries (also on O2) works and the iPhone
showed no signal.
>
>>>I use my iPhone more for data than I do for voice.
>>
>>I wonder why? ;-)
>
>Because I work in IT and use things like Twitter, facebook, email,
>Safari...
Is this work use of email and the web you are talking about? <g> Could
you not do your job without it? What will you do when (as it will)
break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
>
>>Sort of a phone, yes. I'll stick with my Palm T|X and Nokia 6310i ta.
>>;-)
>
>I don't really want to be carrying around two devices.
I don't 'carry' two I have just the phone in my Krussle belt pouch (or
I would have lost or broken it long long ago). I don't take the T|X
out very often as there is nothing on it that is essential for my
daily needs.
>
<snip>
>Sounds like you've already decided that the iPhone is going to
>dissapoint you, so I'm sure it will.
Just as any smart phone / PDA would as there is no such single device
that would cater for all my needs. That's why I use the right tool for
the job not (even) what some may see as the best compromise currently
available. ;-)
> But you've stated you're already
>happy with your choice of mobile phone and additional PDA. I'm happy
>with my mobile phone which also fills the role of PDA plus loads of
>other stuff all in one device.
Of course. But I think I think you could say PDA that you can
sometimes to get to use as a phone.
>
>>Like, I use my GPS(s) on the motorbike and cycle, out in the elements.
>>I don't want to worry about it getting wet or putting in a tank bag.
>
>For SatNav (touring) on a motorcycle I've never used anything apart
>from dedicated GPS units.
<snip>
So, you appreciate that the iPhone is no replacement for a dedicated
GPS. Many folk don't think the iPhone is a good enough phone to BE
their phone. Some people don't think it makes as good a PDA as the
battery life isn't as good as their previous PDA, or the alarm isn't
as reliable as their real alarm clock because it goes to sleep / flat
etc etc etc. I'll give you it could be seen as a clever iPod with a
phone but I don't want to browse the web or watch a video on anything
less than a 7" screen (and couldn't anyway as my eyes aren't up to
it). [2]
>I
>>don't want a contract phone and don't want to spend much over £20 for
>>a PAYG phone.
>
>I pay £35/mo for my iPhone tariff (although there is a cheaper
>package, I think) which is less than what I paid for my Nokia n95 on
>T-Mobile with web'n'walk stuck on top of that. It works out cheaper
>for me to have an iPhone on contract than it did for an n95 on a
>contract with web'n'walk stuck on.
That's good then.
>
>Summary: I'm not trying to convince you to buy an iPhone,
I know, you are attempting to put across the positives of the iPhone
and you are doing a very good job. ;-)
Me: So why would I buy your double glazing?
You: Because the frame has better UV protection then other makes.
Me: How long to the others last then?
You: <mutter> About 60 years, ah, but did you know when you open it
it's nearly as good as having a fan in the room ... if it's windy that
is ...
;-)
<snip>
>
>When the original iPhone came out there were comparisons between the
>Nokia n95 and the iPhone. I know this as I was an n95 user and felt
>the same way as you did about the iPhone and said I would never buy
>one.
I was rummaging about with some of my phones recently and dug out a
Nokia 5500 Sport and an E50 (both given to me a some point). I found a
data lead, plugged them into the XP/Mini , upgraded the firmware on
both, synched them, put and plaid some music on the 5500 and put them
back in the draw.
> Instead I bought an iPod Touch to replaced my aged iPod.
When *do* people listen to their 'iPods'? I (sometimes) have the
radio on in the kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, workshop or car. I rarely
put on a CD because 1) I can't be bothered 2) I'd get bored with any
one band too quickly. With me I listen for- then - to those things I
like (I'll even turn it up sometimes) and tune out everything else.
Just like I used to do with CB or on AR or anywhere really. Daughter
really pisses me off as she's forever flicking about with the radio in
the cars like it's the primary reason we are in there (even when she's
doing driving practice). I have taken to not taking the radio front
out with me in my car, preferring the squeaks and rattles of the car
than roulette radio.
> The
>iPhone and iPod Touch are essentially the same thing (although the
>iPod Touch lacks GPS and, well, a phone!) but the interface on the
>iPod Touch was so intuitive and easy to use that I fell for it
Don't get me wrong. I'd probably like one to play with but I don't
need one so anything above 20 quid is too much for what would just be
a novelty / toy (as mentioned elsewhere).
> and
>after a while I was using my n95 as a WiFi router and my ipod Touch
>connected to it via WiFi and I did pretty much all of my work on that.
You must be very patient.
>The n95 was no longer the device that sat next to my bed on the floor
>at night which I would pick up and fanny around with, the iPod Touch
>was (on WiFi).
Oh the energy of youth. When I go to bed it's generally for one thing
these days. ;-(
> After a while I decided that I needed an iPod Touch
>with a phone in it. So I did. The n95 pissed on the iPhone if you
>looked at raw specs (iPhone had 2mp camera, n95 had 5mp, iPhone didn't
>do 3G, n95 did 3G, etc.) but the way that the handset interface was
>designed was out of this world.
Yeah, my mate(s) said that. Changing the volume of the call with their
ear (when I could get through in the first place that is).
> Things just work, and they work
>quickly and aren't over complicated.
Ok.
> Even things like logging into a
>WiFi network when a known one is in range is simple - you do nothing,
>it logs in without prompting or even mentioning it, no fannying
>through menus, no turning WiFi off and on.
Like most laptops and other WiFi enabled devices no? The only WiFi
enabled phone I own is the Pirelli LP-D10 GSM/VoiP jobby and that
connects to whatever AP it can (I have 3 here).
> This list is not
>exhaustive.
I'm sure it's not. ;-)
Anyway, like I said, this is a 'telecom' ng so network locked and tied
in phones aren't generally 'popular' (and why I bought the last phone
from the CPW), nor are phones that don't make good 'telephones'. I'm
not sure it matters how good the other bits are (for the majority of
mobile phone owners anyway).
Cheers, T i m
[1] Pick any one of the other phones he's had or got now.
[2] It makes me laugh with some of these portable DVD players that
might actually last long enough to play a whole film! ;-)
"T i m" <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:vmom75djg150pp4uk1d52ao4pr29omrkh8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:22:00 +0100, BGN <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>So the first iPhone can do the exact same things as the latest iPhone?
>>
>>They all run the iPhone 3.0 platform now so are just as capable as
>>each other. OBVIOUSLY any hardware differences will still be there,
>
> Ah, that was what I was really talking about. My point is they have
> just made the iPhone do what any other decent phone has been able to
> do for years. They could have made it do all it now does in the first
> go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
> wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
> spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
> any other 'phone' at the time.
Quite possibly. But you're also missing the point that the iPhone is a
convergent device. One device to replace two, three, four, however many you
have.
>>but Apple said when they launched the iPod Touch & iPhone that people
>>needed to be able to be able to depend on the software and
>>compatability with future models.
>
> Ok
>
> <snip>
>
>>>Indeed. Along with picture messaging, bluetooth to another phone, user
>>>creatable ring tones and a removable battery, the basic of most
>>>features for many other phones?
>>
>>MMS is there,
>
> 'Now'?
>
>> bluetooth is there for tethering,
>
> So not really bluetooth as we know it on most other phones? And why
> is it that limiting?
>
>> user created ringtones
>>have been there since OS 2.0.
>
> Why not OS 1? It's not like Apple hadn't seen the idea before is it?
>
>> Re: Removable battery. The iPhone
>>battery is capable of 1,000 full (100%) cycles before it loses 10% of
>>the capacity. A colleague of mine has had the original iPhone since
>>day 1 and it still has a respectable battery life (1 full 0% to 100%
>>recharge a day is nearly 3 years. (2x50% recharges = 1 cycle, etc.)
>
> I recharge the 6310i once a week (if it needs it). If it does go flat
> when I'm out I pop the spare battery in.
What do you do when the Palm TX runs dry?
Lots of people think they want a replaceable battery but don't need it - the
6310i is a case in point. Mine would last one to two weeks to a charge, so
the only excuse for it running out whilst out and about was that I didn't
check the battery meter before going. It it was looking low, an hour on the
charger would sort it out.
Also, battery life is very closely related to usage patterns and is hugely
variable. My wife's Palm Centro has a 1,150 mAh battery and it's not a very
power efficient device. She has a couple of Gmail accounts pushed to the
device between 07:00 and 21:00. She plugs it in every night and has done so
for the last 16 months or whatever. She has never run out of power.
Usually the handset is at the 75% point or so by the evening, it has been as
low as 35%. For her usage, a replaceable battery isn't an issue - I don't
know if the handset will wear out before the battery, but she'll be bored of
it before then anyway.
I used a Palm Treo 680 for a while. I would run down the battery fairly
easily during office hours. Here, a replacement battery was useful, but I
came up with another compromise - regular battery top ups where I could.
Not ideal. But I could make it work.
For me, then, replacing the battery would have been great. For Charlie, it
makes no difference. Your mileage may vary...
> <snip>
>>
>>>Me neither ... maybe Apple like to drip-feed the excitement? ;-)
>>
>>I don't get excited about a software update. Apple seem to wait until
>>software is presentable before releasing it instead of endless
>>patches.
>
> Not talking about patches, I'm talking about soft features that could
> have been there at the beginning. I mean, it's not like they have
> invented much new by the way of a 'phone' have they?
Well, no, and it's the source of much frustration. I believe we're still
waiting for a bluetooth wireless keyboard driver. Oh the arguments about
why users would even want such a thing for the iPhone, heh.
> <snip>
>
>>>Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
>>>he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
>>>in said places.
>>
>>I'm unsure as to what these places are.
>
> Well not a lift or the underground, I'm talking ordinary places where
> you would expect your phone to work (not specific places). Places
> where the other phone [1] he carries (also on O2) works and the iPhone
> showed no signal.
That's the first I've heard of this problem, but there you go.
>>>>I use my iPhone more for data than I do for voice.
>>>
>>>I wonder why? ;-)
>>
>>Because I work in IT and use things like Twitter, facebook, email,
>>Safari...
>
> Is this work use of email and the web you are talking about? <g> Could
> you not do your job without it? What will you do when (as it will)
> break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
I use my handset more for data than voice, *easily*. That's a decision I
take. Sure, I don't need to, but I have decided to. From the sounds of it
you don't, which again is choice.
>>>Sort of a phone, yes. I'll stick with my Palm T|X and Nokia 6310i ta.
>>>;-)
>>
>>I don't really want to be carrying around two devices.
>
> I don't 'carry' two I have just the phone in my Krussle belt pouch (or
> I would have lost or broken it long long ago). I don't take the T|X
> out very often as there is nothing on it that is essential for my
> daily needs.
So you have a very different usage pattern...
> <snip>
>
>>Sounds like you've already decided that the iPhone is going to
>>dissapoint you, so I'm sure it will.
>
> Just as any smart phone / PDA would as there is no such single device
> that would cater for all my needs. That's why I use the right tool for
> the job not (even) what some may see as the best compromise currently
> available. ;-)
I guess. I've tried multiple devices, I've tried one device and to date,
the best compromise for me is a combined PDA / handset and a standalone MP3
player. At one point I had a Palm Tungsten T3, MP3 player, Bluetooth GPS
unit and the 6310i.
Currently, I have the Zen MP3 player (mostly for in-car use), the Nokia E71
and a car with built-in nav, that also runs StyleTap, so I have access to
all of my old PalmOS applications that I'm slowly migrating away from. I
guess that's cheating - two devices in one - but it works for me.
>> But you've stated you're already
>>happy with your choice of mobile phone and additional PDA. I'm happy
>>with my mobile phone which also fills the role of PDA plus loads of
>>other stuff all in one device.
>
> Of course. But I think I think you could say PDA that you can
> sometimes to get to use as a phone.
It matters not, though. My idea device was at one point a Tungsten T3-sized
device with the GSM chipset and handling voice calls via my Bluetooth
wireless headset. The E71 gets pretty close...
>>>Like, I use my GPS(s) on the motorbike and cycle, out in the elements.
>>>I don't want to worry about it getting wet or putting in a tank bag.
>>
>>For SatNav (touring) on a motorcycle I've never used anything apart
>>from dedicated GPS units.
> <snip>
>
> So, you appreciate that the iPhone is no replacement for a dedicated
> GPS. Many folk don't think the iPhone is a good enough phone to BE
> their phone. Some people don't think it makes as good a PDA as the
> battery life isn't as good as their previous PDA, or the alarm isn't
> as reliable as their real alarm clock because it goes to sleep / flat
> etc etc etc. I'll give you it could be seen as a clever iPod with a
> phone but I don't want to browse the web or watch a video on anything
> less than a 7" screen (and couldn't anyway as my eyes aren't up to
> it). [2]
On the other hand and if we use a generic "smartphone" rather than an
iPhone, many people want to have one device to cope with the majority of
things that it needs to. My device handles limited navigation (on foot,
just need to see a street from time to time), corporate and personal email,
reading ebooks, stacks of writing, diary, tasks, contact management,
expenses management, web browsing, Google Reader / RSS, entertainment...
lots of things. Some of these I only do because I can now do it on the one
device. Some I've always wanted to do.
I'm not an iPhone fan as I see too many limits for my own usage, but the
iPhone covers enough bases to work well enough for a large number of people.
People are also discovering things that they can do with their iPhone that
they didn't know they needed. This is arguably a good thing, arguably
not...
If you needed a mobile email / browser device of some description, the 6310i
/ TX could cope between them. Bluetooth GPRS connection from the TX, or
WiFi, that could handle email. Corporate email would also be possible (as
long as your corporate server wasn't Exchange 2007 as I can't find a PalmOS
application to reliably handle this). Blazer on the TX is an okay browser
for some tasks, but the iPhone's browser is much, much better.
>>>don't want a contract phone and don't want to spend much over £20 for
>>>a PAYG phone.
>>
>>I pay £35/mo for my iPhone tariff (although there is a cheaper
>>package, I think) which is less than what I paid for my Nokia n95 on
>>T-Mobile with web'n'walk stuck on top of that. It works out cheaper
>>for me to have an iPhone on contract than it did for an n95 on a
>>contract with web'n'walk stuck on.
>
> That's good then.
>>
>>Summary: I'm not trying to convince you to buy an iPhone,
>
> I know, you are attempting to put across the positives of the iPhone
> and you are doing a very good job. ;-)
> Me: So why would I buy your double glazing?
> You: Because the frame has better UV protection then other makes.
> Me: How long to the others last then?
> You: <mutter> About 60 years, ah, but did you know when you open it
> it's nearly as good as having a fan in the room ... if it's windy that
> is ...
> ;-)
>
> <snip>
>>
>>When the original iPhone came out there were comparisons between the
>>Nokia n95 and the iPhone. I know this as I was an n95 user and felt
>>the same way as you did about the iPhone and said I would never buy
>>one.
>
> I was rummaging about with some of my phones recently and dug out a
> Nokia 5500 Sport and an E50 (both given to me a some point). I found a
> data lead, plugged them into the XP/Mini , upgraded the firmware on
> both, synched them, put and plaid some music on the 5500 and put them
> back in the draw.
Heh. You have an E50?!
>> Instead I bought an iPod Touch to replaced my aged iPod.
>
> When *do* people listen to their 'iPods'? I (sometimes) have the
> radio on in the kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, workshop or car. I rarely
> put on a CD because 1) I can't be bothered 2) I'd get bored with any
> one band too quickly. With me I listen for- then - to those things I
> like (I'll even turn it up sometimes) and tune out everything else.
Most of my music listening is in the car on the hour long commute. I tend
to put a variety of music on random play. I never know what's coming
next... I don't have an iPod, but a similar music-playing device.
> Just like I used to do with CB or on AR or anywhere really. Daughter
> really pisses me off as she's forever flicking about with the radio in
> the cars like it's the primary reason we are in there (even when she's
> doing driving practice). I have taken to not taking the radio front
> out with me in my car, preferring the squeaks and rattles of the car
> than roulette radio.
Have you considered slapping her hand away from the control..?
>> The
>>iPhone and iPod Touch are essentially the same thing (although the
>>iPod Touch lacks GPS and, well, a phone!) but the interface on the
>>iPod Touch was so intuitive and easy to use that I fell for it
>
> Don't get me wrong. I'd probably like one to play with but I don't
> need one so anything above 20 quid is too much for what would just be
> a novelty / toy (as mentioned elsewhere).
Mine is almost always only used in the car. Actually sometimes at the
office at my desk, to drown out my colleagues.
>> and
>>after a while I was using my n95 as a WiFi router and my ipod Touch
>>connected to it via WiFi and I did pretty much all of my work on that.
>
> You must be very patient.
Nah it can work fine. An ordinary 3G data connection isn't all that slow,
depending on what you're used to. I'd not want to download a movie over it,
but for browsing, usenet, email, it works just fine.
>>The n95 was no longer the device that sat next to my bed on the floor
>>at night which I would pick up and fanny around with, the iPod Touch
>>was (on WiFi).
>
> Oh the energy of youth. When I go to bed it's generally for one thing
> these days. ;-(
>
>> After a while I decided that I needed an iPod Touch
>>with a phone in it. So I did. The n95 pissed on the iPhone if you
>>looked at raw specs (iPhone had 2mp camera, n95 had 5mp, iPhone didn't
>>do 3G, n95 did 3G, etc.) but the way that the handset interface was
>>designed was out of this world.
>
> Yeah, my mate(s) said that. Changing the volume of the call with their
> ear (when I could get through in the first place that is).
>
>> Things just work, and they work
>>quickly and aren't over complicated.
>
> Ok.
>
>> Even things like logging into a
>>WiFi network when a known one is in range is simple - you do nothing,
>>it logs in without prompting or even mentioning it, no fannying
>>through menus, no turning WiFi off and on.
>
> Like most laptops and other WiFi enabled devices no? The only WiFi
> enabled phone I own is the Pirelli LP-D10 GSM/VoiP jobby and that
> connects to whatever AP it can (I have 3 here).
No, not really. The iPhone would pick the most suitable network (mobile or
WiFi) and just connect. At the time the overwhelming majority of WiFi
devices didn't have the mobile (most notebooks still don't) option or they
required some user input.
My E71 has this kind of support with the help of some third party
applications.
>> This list is not
>>exhaustive.
>
> I'm sure it's not. ;-)
>
> Anyway, like I said, this is a 'telecom' ng so network locked and tied
> in phones aren't generally 'popular' (and why I bought the last phone
> from the CPW), nor are phones that don't make good 'telephones'. I'm
> not sure it matters how good the other bits are (for the majority of
> mobile phone owners anyway).
>
> Cheers, T i m
My experience of the iPhone in calling is that... well... it just works.
The user interface is something special. If I had one I would have a love /
hate relationship with it - love the interface, hate certain aspects of it.
The E71 is far more "meh" as far as liking it. It doesn't do much badly,
but nor does it have any fancy aspects (other than the size of it, I
guess) - it just... works...
> [1] Pick any one of the other phones he's had or got now.
>
> [2] It makes me laugh with some of these portable DVD players that
> might actually last long enough to play a whole film! ;-)
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 01:28:23 +0100, T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>>>So the first iPhone can do the exact same things as the latest iPhone?
>>
>>They all run the iPhone 3.0 platform now so are just as capable as
>>each other. OBVIOUSLY any hardware differences will still be there,
>
>Ah, that was what I was really talking about. My point is they have
>just made the iPhone do what any other decent phone has been able to
>do for years.
I might have said in my previous post that comparisons of the specs of
the original iPhone and the Nokia n95 showed that the n95 pissed all
over the iPhone in terms of specifications, but in terms of
*usability* and speed at which the device operated the iPhone won
hands down. The iPhone still managed to get a rather large hold on
the smartphone market (which is rather good for a first generation
device) from a company which had never ventured into the mobile phone
market before.
>...They could have made it do all it now does in the first
>go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
>wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
>spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
>any other 'phone' at the time.
Not really. The primary market for the iPhone was the US. It didn't
come out in any other country apart from the US until months later.
The iPhone exclusive distribution contract in the US was held by AT&T.
AT&T didn't support MMS and has only *just* started supporting MMS.
The iPhone 3 OS was only out a month or two ago which had support for
MMS in it. On the iPhone 3GS (and iPhone 3 OS) launch date most other
operators around the world had no issue with MMS but it wasn't until
several weeks AFTER the OS 3 rollout that AT&T added MMS support to
their cellular network. As AT&T didn't support MMS and the iPhone was
only available on the AT&T network the feature was not included in the
software. The same goes for the original iPhone lacking support from
3G data & voice. AT&T's network in the US had very, very, very little
support for 3G and given the size of the country upgrading the network
would cost many pennies and lots of time, therefore the iPhone
supported GPRS & EDGE data. The UK is lucky in some ways to be quite
small as cell towers cover more of the population so 3G coverage is
excellent in comparison to the US, but EDGE coverage in the UK isn't
all that popular. I live in the South-East of England and there is no
T-Mobile EDGE coverage (I think T-Mob moved right from GPRS to 3G
skipping the middle), I've seen the EDGE logo about three times in
three years on Orange but after the iPhone launched in the UK O2
started upgrading their EDGE coverage as they only supported GPRS &
3G. Anyway, that's why the iPhone didn't support 3G to start off with
and why MMS wasn't available until OS 2.0
>>>Indeed. Along with picture messaging, bluetooth to another phone, user
>>>creatable ring tones and a removable battery, the basic of most
>>>features for many other phones?
>>
>>MMS is there,
>
>'Now'?
See above reply for explanation of MMS.
>> bluetooth is there for tethering,
>
>So not really bluetooth as we know it on most other phones? And why
>is it that limiting?
I've no idea. I must say that I've only ever sent a file over
bluetooth twice in my life to another mobile phone so it's not a
feature that I've missed.
>> user created ringtones
>>have been there since OS 2.0.
>
>Why not OS 1? It's not like Apple hadn't seen the idea before is it?
Again, I've no idea.
>>I don't get excited about a software update. Apple seem to wait until
>>software is presentable before releasing it instead of endless
>>patches.
>
>Not talking about patches, I'm talking about soft features that could
>have been there at the beginning. I mean, it's not like they have
>invented much new by the way of a 'phone' have they?
They haven't reinvented the phone, but they've certainly changed the
way people use their handset. Quote from the Apple WWDC '08::
"That's all great, but the thing that makes us the happiest is that
users love the iPhone. 90% customer satisfaction -- that's off the
charts. What products today have that? 98% are browsing -- mobile
browsing has gone from nothing to 98% with the iPhone. 94% are using
email, 90% are using SMS -- 80% are using 10 or more features."
Average mobile phone users only use four features of their mobile
phones, so 80% of iPhone customers using 10 or more features (remember
this is using data from the iPhone 1 OS, which didn't feature anything
like the AppStore) really does show that people find the iPhone more
easy to use than other phones.
>>>Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
>>>he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
>>>in said places.
>>
>>I'm unsure as to what these places are.
>
>Well not a lift or the underground, I'm talking ordinary places where
>you would expect your phone to work (not specific places). Places
>where the other phone [1] he carries (also on O2) works and the iPhone
>showed no signal.
While signal reception varies on all phones the metal bezel around the
iPhone screen works as a signal booster for the antenna which
generally gives the iPhone better reception than a number of other
mobiles. The iPhone was designed for use in the US where signals have
to travel further than they do in Europe (due to the amount of land)
so signal reception and transmission is tweaked more. I'm guessing
your friend had/has a dodgy handset?
>>>>I use my iPhone more for data than I do for voice.
>>>
>>>I wonder why? ;-)
>>
>>Because I work in IT and use things like Twitter, facebook, email,
>>Safari...
>
>Is this work use of email and the web you are talking about?
No, it's not all work use, although email generally is and calls to my
desk are forwarded to my iPhone if I'm away.
>Could you not do your job without it?
Like many other people who work in the IT biz we generally keep an eye
on tech stuff and have lots of gadgets and are often topping up on
tech or other news and stories via RSS in our spare time. It's quite
normal in my office.
>What will you do when (as it will) break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
Do exactly what I do any other time this happens: Get another one.
It's what insurance is for.
>>Sounds like you've already decided that the iPhone is going to
>>dissapoint you, so I'm sure it will.
>
>Just as any smart phone / PDA would as there is no such single device
>that would cater for all my needs. That's why I use the right tool for
>the job not (even) what some may see as the best compromise currently
>available. ;-)
My mobile phone isn't a replacement for my computer and my computer
isn't a replacement for my mobile phone. Thankfully with devices like
the iPhone and other smartphones they do cross over in a lot of areas.
This means that I don't have to flop open my MacBook Pro as often as I
would before to look up something as I know that the iPhone is quite
capable of many of the tasks I would otherwise have to accomplish on a
computer. Plus as it's a phone it's with me quite a lot.
If I want to call someone I will go to the Contacts app on my iPhone
and call them from there, it's a phone book which links up to my
MobileMe accoune. If I want to check my availability for a meeting I
will open the Calendar app on the iPhone to see if I'm free then I'll
add a meeting and the iPhone will, in the background, upload that
meeting to Exchange or MobileMe and the appointment will be added to
Outlook on my work PC and iCal on my MacBook Pro. Changing or
deleting that entry on my work PC will push the change to my Mac and
to my iPhone, etc. So again, I don't want to have to use some huge
application to look at a meeting when I'm not generally at my PC when
I'm in another meeting but I've got my phone so I use that instead and
if someone needs to check my availability for a meeting they can look
on my public Outlook calendar to check if I'm available and send an
invite for me to accept/reject.
>> But you've stated you're already
>>happy with your choice of mobile phone and additional PDA. I'm happy
>>with my mobile phone which also fills the role of PDA plus loads of
>>other stuff all in one device.
>
>Of course. But I think I think you could say PDA that you can
>sometimes to get to use as a phone.
Dunno what you mean, you need to put more water in it.
>>>Like, I use my GPS(s) on the motorbike and cycle, out in the elements.
>>>I don't want to worry about it getting wet or putting in a tank bag.
>>
>>For SatNav (touring) on a motorcycle I've never used anything apart
>>from dedicated GPS units.
><snip>
>
>So, you appreciate that the iPhone is no replacement for a dedicated
>GPS.
The Nokia n95 is no replacement for a dedicated GPS. No dedicated GPS
is a replacement for a waterproof 'biker' GPS satnav system. However,
as there are a couple of satnav apps in the AppStore already and
TomTom is launching their software for iPhone shortly (including a
charger and rotational car mount) the iPhone will be a replacement for
an in-car satnav soon too.
>Many folk don't think the iPhone is a good enough phone to BE
>their phone.
(Although 90% of iPhone customers are happy with their handset from
the old v1 software using the data from above)
>Some people don't think it makes as good a PDA as the
>battery life isn't as good as their previous PDA
The battery life is in line with other smartphones (v1 iPhone vs v1
Nokia n95).
>or the alarm isn't
>as reliable as their real alarm clock because it goes to sleep / flat
>etc etc etc.
The alarm on a PDA is rather dependent on a battery and the alarm in
my alarm clock isn't much good during a power cut. Also, not sure
about your 'because it goes to sleep' statement. When the iPhone is
on flight mode or asleep the alarm still functions, the screen is just
off until the alarm goes off, appointment reminder, a call, etc. is
received or any button is pressed. My phone still bings at me during
the night as emails are received when I forget to flick the
silent/ringer switch to silent.
>I'll give you it could be seen as a clever iPod with a
>phone but I don't want to browse the web or watch a video on anything
>less than a 7" screen (and couldn't anyway as my eyes aren't up to
>it). [2]
A 7" screen is a bit cumbersome to fit in a pocket. Re: web browsing,
Safari on the iPhone is rather spiffing in comparison to other
browsers in that it supports pretty much everything you need to view
most web pages and double tapping text zooms the paragraph to the size
of the screen <grabs iPhone and takes a couple of screeners>
1) timesonline.co.uk front page viewed as standard on Safari
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3799241278/sizes/o/>
2) double tapping the top story zooms in to paragraph
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3798425411/sizes/o/>
3) rotating iPhone sideways makes text bigger
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3798425587/sizes/m/>
One can also pinch and pull fingers apart to zoom in or out.
>>Summary: I'm not trying to convince you to buy an iPhone,
>
>I know, you are attempting to put across the positives of the iPhone
>and you are doing a very good job. ;-)
I'm just an iPhone user. There are many, many quite vocal 'iPhone
haters' out there who constantly say how rubbish the iPhone is and
that the only reason the iPhone is popular is because of Apple's
marketing but once someone actually uses the iPhone the interface
generally wins them over. Obviously the iPhone isn't for everyone and
the the Blackberry brand isn't for everyone either but it's still
rather scrummy. Plus, like with all Apple products, if you don't like
it you can return it within 14 days for a full refund.
>> Instead I bought an iPod Touch to replaced my aged iPod.
>
>When *do* people listen to their 'iPods'? I (sometimes) have the
>radio on in the kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, workshop or car. I rarely
>put on a CD because 1) I can't be bothered 2) I'd get bored with any
>one band too quickly. With me I listen for- then - to those things I
>like (I'll even turn it up sometimes) and tune out everything else.
When I'm having a shower in the morning I generally have the Heart FM
app open (uses GPS for a few seconds to find out where in the country
you are) then streams your local station via EDGE/3G/WiFi so I get to
listen to some moosick and get a heads up on the road situation and
superficial news before hopping out of the front door. When I get to
work and I'm doing software coding or testing or whatever I'm
generally listening to something with the iPod app on the iPhone. I
will also occasionally Listen Again to BBC Radio 4 or have some audio
wallpaper streaming to my iPhone via the iPlayer or will be watching a
TV programme out of the corner of my eye from the iTunes store or a
film I've converted for the iPhone while I'm debugging.
>> and
>>after a while I was using my n95 as a WiFi router and my ipod Touch
>>connected to it via WiFi and I did pretty much all of my work on that.
>
>You must be very patient.
The processor in the iPod Touch and the iPhone is the same so there
was no reason to be patient.
>>The n95 was no longer the device that sat next to my bed on the floor
>>at night which I would pick up and fanny around with, the iPod Touch
>>was (on WiFi).
>
>Oh the energy of youth. When I go to bed it's generally for one thing
>these days. ;-(
Sadly a sleep disorder often keeps me awake for longer than I'd like
but I find a prescription of RSS feeds, Beejive (MSN/ICQ/etc for
iPhone) Twitter and facebook or perhaps even some grinding on World of
Warcraft generally get me to sleep eventually.
>> Even things like logging into a
>>WiFi network when a known one is in range is simple - you do nothing,
>>it logs in without prompting or even mentioning it, no fannying
>>through menus, no turning WiFi off and on.
>
>Like most laptops and other WiFi enabled devices no? The only WiFi
>enabled phone I own is the Pirelli LP-D10 GSM/VoiP jobby and that
>connects to whatever AP it can (I have 3 here).
PC laptops seem to make a meal out of connecting to WiFi networks
whereas my MacBook Pro seems to be connected even before the screen
turns on. I remember connecting to my WiFi network on my n95 - one
had to turn WiFi on (having WiFi on all the time killed the battery)
then open a web browser then it would say would you like to use GPRS
(1) 3G (2) or WiFi (3) to browse the website, one selected WiFi and it
would negotiate then bring up the usually malformatted website up
after a few errors. On the iPhone one wakes the phone up, opens
Safari and then it goes to whatever website or bookmark you want.
Ditto with other apps too. It just works. If WiFi isn't there it
does it via 3G/EDGE or GPRS without prompting.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 19:04:02 +0100, "DervMan" <thedervman@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Ah, that was what I was really talking about. My point is they have
>> just made the iPhone do what any other decent phone has been able to
>> do for years. They could have made it do all it now does in the first
>> go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
>> wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
>> spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
>> any other 'phone' at the time.
>
>Quite possibly. But you're also missing the point that the iPhone is a
>convergent device. One device to replace two, three, four, however many you
>have.
Ok, but how does that affect those functions Apple chose (presumably?)
not to include but could have the first time round. ie, I'm not
talking about the convergence functions but what I'd think most people
would expect on even the basic 'phone' these days?
>
>>
>> I recharge the 6310i once a week (if it needs it). If it does go flat
>> when I'm out I pop the spare battery in.
>
>What do you do when the Palm TX runs dry?
Carry on using my 6310i. 'Eggs in one basket' comes to mind here. ;-)
>
>Lots of people think they want a replaceable battery but don't need it - the
>6310i is a case in point.
Indeed. I use my Garmin Quest (internal battery) day to day and the
GPS V (4 x AA) when cycle camping. Yes I have to have two devices but
I'd rather have two ideal devices than one compromise.
> Mine would last one to two weeks to a charge, so
>the only excuse for it running out whilst out and about was that I didn't
>check the battery meter before going.
Or were cycle camping away from power for three weeks. ;-)
> It it was looking low, an hour on the
>charger would sort it out.
Of course.
>
>Also, battery life is very closely related to usage patterns and is hugely
>variable. My wife's Palm Centro has a 1,150 mAh battery and it's not a very
>power efficient device. She has a couple of Gmail accounts pushed to the
>device between 07:00 and 21:00. She plugs it in every night and has done so
>for the last 16 months or whatever. She has never run out of power.
>Usually the handset is at the 75% point or so by the evening, it has been as
>low as 35%. For her usage, a replaceable battery isn't an issue - I don't
>know if the handset will wear out before the battery, but she'll be bored of
>it before then anyway.
Understood.
>
>I used a Palm Treo 680 for a while. I would run down the battery fairly
>easily during office hours. Here, a replacement battery was useful, but I
>came up with another compromise - regular battery top ups where I could.
>Not ideal. But I could make it work.
It's nice to have the choice of a user replaceable battery though
isn't it (I consider it so). What if the battery fails prematurely or
you actually *need* more power for a special occasion (as cited
above)?
>
>For me, then, replacing the battery would have been great. For Charlie, it
>makes no difference. Your mileage may vary...
I would always consider having the option to be a plus. Daughters new
camera has an external charger. At first look it may seem clumsy but
only till you get a second battery 'just in case' (when you can be
charging one battery whilst using the other).
>
>> Not talking about patches, I'm talking about soft features that could
>> have been there at the beginning. I mean, it's not like they have
>> invented much new by the way of a 'phone' have they?
>
>Well, no, and it's the source of much frustration. I believe we're still
>waiting for a bluetooth wireless keyboard driver. Oh the arguments about
>why users would even want such a thing for the iPhone, heh.
Hehe.
>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
>>>>he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
>>>>in said places.
>>>
>>>I'm unsure as to what these places are.
>>
>> Well not a lift or the underground, I'm talking ordinary places where
>> you would expect your phone to work (not specific places). Places
>> where the other phone [1] he carries (also on O2) works and the iPhone
>> showed no signal.
>
>That's the first I've heard of this problem, but there you go.
>> Is this work use of email and the web you are talking about? <g> Could
>> you not do your job without it? What will you do when (as it will)
>> break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
>
>I use my handset more for data than voice, *easily*. That's a decision I
>take. Sure, I don't need to, but I have decided to. From the sounds of it
>you don't, which again is choice.
Yep, the same usage pattern I have with my T|X. If I want to make a
phone call I want to be able to do it independently of my PDA. But
then I'm a big bloke and have no issue carrying a couple of bits of
kit.
>
>> I don't 'carry' two I have just the phone in my Krussle belt pouch (or
>> I would have lost or broken it long long ago). I don't take the T|X
>> out very often as there is nothing on it that is essential for my
>> daily needs.
>
>So you have a very different usage pattern...
Oh indeed.
>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>Sounds like you've already decided that the iPhone is going to
>>>dissapoint you, so I'm sure it will.
>>
>> Just as any smart phone / PDA would as there is no such single device
>> that would cater for all my needs. That's why I use the right tool for
>> the job not (even) what some may see as the best compromise currently
>> available. ;-)
>
>I guess. I've tried multiple devices, I've tried one device and to date,
>the best compromise for me is a combined PDA / handset and a standalone MP3
>player. At one point I had a Palm Tungsten T3, MP3 player, Bluetooth GPS
>unit and the 6310i.
My most expensive (as in poor VFM) was my first laptop (a Compaq 386).
I always wanted one but after about 10 uses I put it down and never
picked it up again. My Garmin Quest I'm still using regularly and it's
VERY versatile and good at what it does. I have used TomTom's and PDA
based GPS's and just don't like them.
>
>Currently, I have the Zen MP3 player (mostly for in-car use), the Nokia E71
>and a car with built-in nav, that also runs StyleTap, so I have access to
>all of my old PalmOS applications that I'm slowly migrating away from. I
>guess that's cheating - two devices in one - but it works for me.
And that's the point isn't it. ;-)
>
>> Of course. But I think I think you could say PDA that you can
>> sometimes to get to use as a phone.
>
>It matters not, though.
I think it does, IF the phone isn't typically as good as most current
devices. It's like *needing* a phone to also be a video camera or
handle picture messaging, if it can't it's useless. If it can but not
to a reasonable standard it might also be considered useless. Daughter
likes carrying a phone to talk / text on and a reasonably compact
digital camera. She has also taken her DS on holiday as that has games
on it that you can't get on many other (portable) platforms. She's
also now got an mp3 player and was particularly keen not to have one
as a sub function of her phone (or DS. It's back to the old concept of
HiFi 'seperates' or having a scanner *and* a printer, you can mix and
match to get the best of what you want or what's available). The
iPhone would not be a suitable substitute to her for any of those
devices.
> My idea device was at one point a Tungsten T3-sized
>device with the GSM chipset and handling voice calls via my Bluetooth
>wireless headset. The E71 gets pretty close...
I guess if you are regularly needing to do business type stuff and
only carry yer FT then I guess a small all-in-one device would be a
reasonable compromise.
>
<snip>
>
>On the other hand and if we use a generic "smartphone" rather than an
>iPhone, many people want to have one device to cope with the majority of
>things that it needs to.
Ok. I would like that but they don't make one good enough yet. Also I
couldn't afford to keep updating the whole thing when one bit is
upgraded.
> My device handles limited navigation (on foot,
>just need to see a street from time to time), corporate and personal email,
>reading ebooks, stacks of writing, diary, tasks, contact management,
>expenses management, web browsing, Google Reader / RSS, entertainment...
>lots of things.
Your eyes are probably better than mine. Personally, I'd rather not
browse the web on a 3" screen.
> Some of these I only do because I can now do it on the one
>device. Some I've always wanted to do.
Understood.
>
>I'm not an iPhone fan as I see too many limits for my own usage, but the
>iPhone covers enough bases to work well enough for a large number of people.
>People are also discovering things that they can do with their iPhone that
>they didn't know they needed. This is arguably a good thing, arguably
>not...
Don't get me wrong, I think they are a good idea (in principal) and
their obvious popularity means there will be plenty of stuff available
for them. It frustrates me I have difficulty buying say a small HiFi
unit without having to have some (in our case empty) iPod dock on
there ... like everyone want's one?
>
>If you needed a mobile email / browser device of some description, the 6310i
>/ TX could cope between them. Bluetooth GPRS connection from the TX, or
>WiFi, that could handle email. Corporate email would also be possible (as
>long as your corporate server wasn't Exchange 2007 as I can't find a PalmOS
>application to reliably handle this). Blazer on the TX is an okay browser
>for some tasks, but the iPhone's browser is much, much better.
Wow, they could do all that could they! ;-) I only use the T|X
browsing as a support tool or for downloading apps for the T|X itself.
>
<snip>
>
>Heh. You have an E50?!
Erm yes. Is that good or bad? I was given it by someone who took pity
on me with my 6310i. I've never used it (screen is too small).
>
<snip>
>Most of my music listening is in the car on the hour long commute. I tend
>to put a variety of music on random play. I never know what's coming
>next...
I guess because I don't *like* music that much (well I do but I get
bored with anything similar sounding in a very short while) I would
also go for the random thing if trapped with a finite music library.
> I don't have an iPod, but a similar music-playing device.
I think I have some sort of mp3 player somewhere and my (Kenwood) car
CD/Radio has a USB host port (that I tested and haven't used since).
>
>> Just like I used to do with CB or on AR or anywhere really. Daughter
>> really pisses me off as she's forever flicking about with the radio in
>> the cars like it's the primary reason we are in there (even when she's
>> doing driving practice). I have taken to not taking the radio front
>> out with me in my car, preferring the squeaks and rattles of the car
>> than roulette radio.
>
>Have you considered slapping her hand away from the control..?
Oh indeed I have, many a time (but am reluctant to do so since she got
her green belt at Taiquando. Her blocks are instinctive and firm!).
Mind you she seems to have learned a little lesson re that. I was
'suggesting' she stopped playing with the radio and concentrated on
her driving. She said 'I have to, driving is boring' (she's prefer to
be on her motorbike) and at that point she found a large pothole and a
wheel trim flew off into the undergrowth. I recovered the trim then
explained that if 'driving was boring' she wasn't (obviously) paying
it sufficient attention. ;-)
>
>> Don't get me wrong. I'd probably like one to play with but I don't
>> need one so anything above 20 quid is too much for what would just be
>> a novelty / toy (as mentioned elsewhere).
>
>Mine is almost always only used in the car. Actually sometimes at the
>office at my desk, to drown out my colleagues.
Hehe. On that subject I was thinking of designing a sleep aid to help
me drown out my tinnitus (possibly why I'm touchy around noise / music
etc), especially when I'm trying to get to sleep. It would be
something like a white noise generator with an adjustable starting
volume, an adjustable ramp-town period and a final volume (which
couldn't be 'off'). If I wake up I can hit the 'snooze' button that
starts the process again but from a third adjustable volume and
shorter ramp period. Is there an iPhone 'app for that'?
>
>>
>> You must be very patient.
>
>Nah it can work fine. An ordinary 3G data connection isn't all that slow,
>depending on what you're used to. I'd not want to download a movie over it,
>but for browsing, usenet, email, it works just fine.
Like my eeePC and Voda PAYG dongle then? Except I can actually use the
OS and all the apps I like and am familiar with, not even cut down
versions of them. ;-)
>
>>> Even things like logging into a
>>>WiFi network when a known one is in range is simple - you do nothing,
>>>it logs in without prompting or even mentioning it, no fannying
>>>through menus, no turning WiFi off and on.
>>
>> Like most laptops and other WiFi enabled devices no? The only WiFi
>> enabled phone I own is the Pirelli LP-D10 GSM/VoiP jobby and that
>> connects to whatever AP it can (I have 3 here).
>
>No, not really. The iPhone would pick the most suitable network (mobile or
>WiFi) and just connect. At the time the overwhelming majority of WiFi
>devices didn't have the mobile (most notebooks still don't) option or they
>required some user input.
Ok.
>
>My E71 has this kind of support with the help of some third party
>applications.
Want to buy my Pirelli LP-D10 then? ;-)
>
>
>My experience of the iPhone in calling is that... well... it just works.
>The user interface is something special. If I had one I would have a love /
>hate relationship with it - love the interface, hate certain aspects of it.
Ok.
>The E71 is far more "meh" as far as liking it. It doesn't do much badly,
>but nor does it have any fancy aspects (other than the size of it, I
>guess) - it just... works...
Ok.
Daughter has gone off with her little Nokia on the Voda Freedom /
Passport pack and whilst traditionally not liking Nokias she's quite
happy to have one in this sort of environment (Bulgarian holiday
trip). The reason is that if her charger breaks you can bet one of the
other girls will have one she can borrow. Also there will be a fairly
good chance they will be able to BT stuff to each other and / or her
SIM will go in another Nokia and not screw up her phonebook etc. ;-)
"T i m" <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:rs9p75dfgd4ibmsp6qp7pgpmtbc98j0fj6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 7 Aug 2009 19:04:02 +0100, "DervMan" <thedervman@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Ah, that was what I was really talking about. My point is they have
>>> just made the iPhone do what any other decent phone has been able to
>>> do for years. They could have made it do all it now does in the first
>>> go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
>>> wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
>>> spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
>>> any other 'phone' at the time.
>>
>>Quite possibly. But you're also missing the point that the iPhone is a
>>convergent device. One device to replace two, three, four, however many
>>you
>>have.
>
> Ok, but how does that affect those functions Apple chose (presumably?)
> not to include but could have the first time round. ie, I'm not
> talking about the convergence functions but what I'd think most people
> would expect on even the basic 'phone' these days?
Some of the missing features are overblown. The iPhone could always handle
incoming MMS. It couldn't send them until recently. Not all that big a
deal. Copy and paste - very annoying. Inability to multitask - much hot
air about how it makes it useless, but the TX can't multitask in much the
same way.
What has and will make the iPhone platform is the applications available.
Just as with PalmOS. I've used PalmOS devices since 1997 or so and I badly
miss my Treo 680.
>>> I recharge the 6310i once a week (if it needs it). If it does go flat
>>> when I'm out I pop the spare battery in.
>>
>>What do you do when the Palm TX runs dry?
>
> Carry on using my 6310i. 'Eggs in one basket' comes to mind here. ;-)
Not the same kind of device, though - you can't do the same things on both
devices...
>>Lots of people think they want a replaceable battery but don't need it -
>>the
>>6310i is a case in point.
>
> Indeed. I use my Garmin Quest (internal battery) day to day and the
> GPS V (4 x AA) when cycle camping. Yes I have to have two devices but
> I'd rather have two ideal devices than one compromise.
>
>> Mine would last one to two weeks to a charge, so
>>the only excuse for it running out whilst out and about was that I didn't
>>check the battery meter before going.
>
> Or were cycle camping away from power for three weeks. ;-)
Solar panel charger?
>> It it was looking low, an hour on the
>>charger would sort it out.
>
> Of course.
>>
>>Also, battery life is very closely related to usage patterns and is hugely
>>variable. My wife's Palm Centro has a 1,150 mAh battery and it's not a
>>very
>>power efficient device. She has a couple of Gmail accounts pushed to the
>>device between 07:00 and 21:00. She plugs it in every night and has done
>>so
>>for the last 16 months or whatever. She has never run out of power.
>>Usually the handset is at the 75% point or so by the evening, it has been
>>as
>>low as 35%. For her usage, a replaceable battery isn't an issue - I don't
>>know if the handset will wear out before the battery, but she'll be bored
>>of
>>it before then anyway.
>
> Understood.
>>
>>I used a Palm Treo 680 for a while. I would run down the battery fairly
>>easily during office hours. Here, a replacement battery was useful, but I
>>came up with another compromise - regular battery top ups where I could.
>>Not ideal. But I could make it work.
>
> It's nice to have the choice of a user replaceable battery though
> isn't it (I consider it so). What if the battery fails prematurely or
> you actually *need* more power for a special occasion (as cited
> above)?
>>
>>For me, then, replacing the battery would have been great. For Charlie,
>>it
>>makes no difference. Your mileage may vary...
>
> I would always consider having the option to be a plus. Daughters new
> camera has an external charger. At first look it may seem clumsy but
> only till you get a second battery 'just in case' (when you can be
> charging one battery whilst using the other).
Yeah - I agree. It's a advantage but not a dealbreaker.
>>> Not talking about patches, I'm talking about soft features that could
>>> have been there at the beginning. I mean, it's not like they have
>>> invented much new by the way of a 'phone' have they?
>>
>>Well, no, and it's the source of much frustration. I believe we're still
>>waiting for a bluetooth wireless keyboard driver. Oh the arguments about
>>why users would even want such a thing for the iPhone, heh.
>
> Hehe.
>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>>Mate got rid of his because it simply did work in the places
>>>>>he needed to work. Every other phone he has use before and since works
>>>>>in said places.
>>>>
>>>>I'm unsure as to what these places are.
>>>
>>> Well not a lift or the underground, I'm talking ordinary places where
>>> you would expect your phone to work (not specific places). Places
>>> where the other phone [1] he carries (also on O2) works and the iPhone
>>> showed no signal.
>>
>>That's the first I've heard of this problem, but there you go.
>
> Really?
>
> http://discussions.apple.com/thread....33355&tstart=0
Yup, really. I don't loiter around iPhone forums all that often mostly
because the die-hard iPhone fans throw rotten eggs at me for daring point
out that, yeah it's a good device, but it doesn't yet work for me. See
above regarding using a keyboard. How dare I ruin the asthetics of the user
interface with a clunky keyboard? ;-)
>>> Is this work use of email and the web you are talking about? <g> Could
>>> you not do your job without it? What will you do when (as it will)
>>> break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
>>
>>I use my handset more for data than voice, *easily*. That's a decision I
>>take. Sure, I don't need to, but I have decided to. From the sounds of
>>it
>>you don't, which again is choice.
>
> Yep, the same usage pattern I have with my T|X. If I want to make a
> phone call I want to be able to do it independently of my PDA. But
> then I'm a big bloke and have no issue carrying a couple of bits of
> kit.
I'm basically lazy and forgetful, and don't want to have to remember to
recharge more devices than necessary. The Zen, like the 6310i, has really
strong batter life. In my case it's for a user error reason...
>>> I don't 'carry' two I have just the phone in my Krussle belt pouch (or
>>> I would have lost or broken it long long ago). I don't take the T|X
>>> out very often as there is nothing on it that is essential for my
>>> daily needs.
>>
>>So you have a very different usage pattern...
>
> Oh indeed.
>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>Sounds like you've already decided that the iPhone is going to
>>>>dissapoint you, so I'm sure it will.
>>>
>>> Just as any smart phone / PDA would as there is no such single device
>>> that would cater for all my needs. That's why I use the right tool for
>>> the job not (even) what some may see as the best compromise currently
>>> available. ;-)
>>
>>I guess. I've tried multiple devices, I've tried one device and to date,
>>the best compromise for me is a combined PDA / handset and a standalone
>>MP3
>>player. At one point I had a Palm Tungsten T3, MP3 player, Bluetooth GPS
>>unit and the 6310i.
>
> My most expensive (as in poor VFM) was my first laptop (a Compaq 386).
> I always wanted one but after about 10 uses I put it down and never
> picked it up again. My Garmin Quest I'm still using regularly and it's
> VERY versatile and good at what it does. I have used TomTom's and PDA
> based GPS's and just don't like them.
I love eBay. Somebody elses' discarded toy was your primary device for the
next year. My favourite PalmOS device is still the m515. Very, very
expensive new, but a bargain used. The T3 came close, but battery life was
a bit of an issue.
I write a lot. Knocking up six hours of PDA use a day isn't difficult. The
T3's battery would give me four hours when being used for writing.
>>Currently, I have the Zen MP3 player (mostly for in-car use), the Nokia
>>E71
>>and a car with built-in nav, that also runs StyleTap, so I have access to
>>all of my old PalmOS applications that I'm slowly migrating away from. I
>>guess that's cheating - two devices in one - but it works for me.
>
> And that's the point isn't it. ;-)
Yes...
>>> Of course. But I think I think you could say PDA that you can
>>> sometimes to get to use as a phone.
>>
>>It matters not, though.
>
> I think it does, IF the phone isn't typically as good as most current
> devices. It's like *needing* a phone to also be a video camera or
> handle picture messaging, if it can't it's useless. If it can but not
> to a reasonable standard it might also be considered useless.
Possibly! I only really use the camera in the E71 for sending silly
pictures or videos. It's a cameraphone: I expect the image to look fuzzy.
If I want to take a picture... I use a proper camera.
> Daughter
> likes carrying a phone to talk / text on and a reasonably compact
> digital camera. She has also taken her DS on holiday as that has games
> on it that you can't get on many other (portable) platforms. She's
> also now got an mp3 player and was particularly keen not to have one
> as a sub function of her phone (or DS. It's back to the old concept of
> HiFi 'seperates' or having a scanner *and* a printer, you can mix and
> match to get the best of what you want or what's available). The
> iPhone would not be a suitable substitute to her for any of those
> devices.
Perhaps not, but the iPhone OS is receiving much developer love and
attention. It's becoming a decent gaming platform. And of course it does
the music thing too. The compromise is that you maybe end up with something
that's 8/10s as good as the alternative, but combining four or five roles
into one, it becomes cheaper to buy and easier to carry. The disadvantages
are it isn't as good, it is vulnerable to loss or battery dry up, so on and
so forth.
>> My idea device was at one point a Tungsten T3-sized
>>device with the GSM chipset and handling voice calls via my Bluetooth
>>wireless headset. The E71 gets pretty close...
>
> I guess if you are regularly needing to do business type stuff and
> only carry yer FT then I guess a small all-in-one device would be a
> reasonable compromise.
Carry a paper? Pfft! I read papers on the device.
But you're right; I have the luxury of only needing to carry my lunch with
me to work.
> <snip>
>>
>>On the other hand and if we use a generic "smartphone" rather than an
>>iPhone, many people want to have one device to cope with the majority of
>>things that it needs to.
>
> Ok. I would like that but they don't make one good enough yet. Also I
> couldn't afford to keep updating the whole thing when one bit is
> upgraded.
Why would one need to upgrade if the model does what you need?
I had to upgrade at the end of last year because work moved to an Exchange
2007 server, which wasn't compatible with any PalmOS application I could
find. :-( Otherwise I would still be using the Treo 680.
>> My device handles limited navigation (on foot,
>>just need to see a street from time to time), corporate and personal
>>email,
>>reading ebooks, stacks of writing, diary, tasks, contact management,
>>expenses management, web browsing, Google Reader / RSS, entertainment...
>>lots of things.
>
> Your eyes are probably better than mine. Personally, I'd rather not
> browse the web on a 3" screen.
I have had to get used to it. Luckily changing the font size is possible
using Symbian S60.
>> Some of these I only do because I can now do it on the one
>>device. Some I've always wanted to do.
>
> Understood.
>>
>>I'm not an iPhone fan as I see too many limits for my own usage, but the
>>iPhone covers enough bases to work well enough for a large number of
>>people.
>>People are also discovering things that they can do with their iPhone that
>>they didn't know they needed. This is arguably a good thing, arguably
>>not...
>
> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a good idea (in principal) and
> their obvious popularity means there will be plenty of stuff available
> for them. It frustrates me I have difficulty buying say a small HiFi
> unit without having to have some (in our case empty) iPod dock on
> there ... like everyone want's one?
A small hifi is the audio equivalent of a convergent device... It does lots
of things well enough to be an acceptable compromise. Buying seperates..?
:-p
>>If you needed a mobile email / browser device of some description, the
>>6310i
>>/ TX could cope between them. Bluetooth GPRS connection from the TX, or
>>WiFi, that could handle email. Corporate email would also be possible (as
>>long as your corporate server wasn't Exchange 2007 as I can't find a
>>PalmOS
>>application to reliably handle this). Blazer on the TX is an okay browser
>>for some tasks, but the iPhone's browser is much, much better.
>
> Wow, they could do all that could they! ;-) I only use the T|X
> browsing as a support tool or for downloading apps for the T|X itself.
>>
> <snip>
>>
>>Heh. You have an E50?!
>
> Erm yes. Is that good or bad?
It's good...
> I was given it by someone who took pity
> on me with my 6310i. I've never used it (screen is too small).
>>
> <snip>
>
>>Most of my music listening is in the car on the hour long commute. I tend
>>to put a variety of music on random play. I never know what's coming
>>next...
>
> I guess because I don't *like* music that much (well I do but I get
> bored with anything similar sounding in a very short while) I would
> also go for the random thing if trapped with a finite music library.
I can dump 4 Gb of random music onto the device, or pick the music, or a
combination of the two...
>> I don't have an iPod, but a similar music-playing device.
>
> I think I have some sort of mp3 player somewhere and my (Kenwood) car
> CD/Radio has a USB host port (that I tested and haven't used since).
>>
>>> Just like I used to do with CB or on AR or anywhere really. Daughter
>>> really pisses me off as she's forever flicking about with the radio in
>>> the cars like it's the primary reason we are in there (even when she's
>>> doing driving practice). I have taken to not taking the radio front
>>> out with me in my car, preferring the squeaks and rattles of the car
>>> than roulette radio.
>>
>>Have you considered slapping her hand away from the control..?
>
> Oh indeed I have, many a time (but am reluctant to do so since she got
> her green belt at Taiquando. Her blocks are instinctive and firm!).
> Mind you she seems to have learned a little lesson re that. I was
> 'suggesting' she stopped playing with the radio and concentrated on
> her driving. She said 'I have to, driving is boring' (she's prefer to
> be on her motorbike) and at that point she found a large pothole and a
> wheel trim flew off into the undergrowth. I recovered the trim then
> explained that if 'driving was boring' she wasn't (obviously) paying
> it sufficient attention. ;-)
Hmm. Off at a tangent here, but if she isn't interested, she should use an
alternative means of getting around. I really, really don't want an
uninterested driver coming off a roundabout, changing the radio again, going
straight into me...
>>> Don't get me wrong. I'd probably like one to play with but I don't
>>> need one so anything above 20 quid is too much for what would just be
>>> a novelty / toy (as mentioned elsewhere).
>>
>>Mine is almost always only used in the car. Actually sometimes at the
>>office at my desk, to drown out my colleagues.
>
> Hehe. On that subject I was thinking of designing a sleep aid to help
> me drown out my tinnitus (possibly why I'm touchy around noise / music
> etc), especially when I'm trying to get to sleep. It would be
> something like a white noise generator with an adjustable starting
> volume, an adjustable ramp-town period and a final volume (which
> couldn't be 'off'). If I wake up I can hit the 'snooze' button that
> starts the process again but from a third adjustable volume and
> shorter ramp period. Is there an iPhone 'app for that'?
You know, if you asked a friendly developer, I'll wager they'll be able to
knock something up like this very, very quickly. Call it a fancy name like
iUniverse Noise, as white noise is reputed to be from the Big Bang, and you
could be on to a winner.
>>> You must be very patient.
>>
>>Nah it can work fine. An ordinary 3G data connection isn't all that slow,
>>depending on what you're used to. I'd not want to download a movie over
>>it,
>>but for browsing, usenet, email, it works just fine.
>
> Like my eeePC and Voda PAYG dongle then? Except I can actually use the
> OS and all the apps I like and am familiar with, not even cut down
> versions of them. ;-)
Maybe. If I'm writing, I'm writing and since I'm writing just text with no
graphics or diagrams, I can write on anything that handles some version of
Microsoft Word, for all of my computers to be compatible. The E71 and
keyboard work best on the train because of their small size. The notebook
is usually a good compromise almost everywhere else.
>>>> Even things like logging into a
>>>>WiFi network when a known one is in range is simple - you do nothing,
>>>>it logs in without prompting or even mentioning it, no fannying
>>>>through menus, no turning WiFi off and on.
>>>
>>> Like most laptops and other WiFi enabled devices no? The only WiFi
>>> enabled phone I own is the Pirelli LP-D10 GSM/VoiP jobby and that
>>> connects to whatever AP it can (I have 3 here).
>>
>>No, not really. The iPhone would pick the most suitable network (mobile
>>or
>>WiFi) and just connect. At the time the overwhelming majority of WiFi
>>devices didn't have the mobile (most notebooks still don't) option or they
>>required some user input.
>
> Ok.
>>
>>My E71 has this kind of support with the help of some third party
>>applications.
>
> Want to buy my Pirelli LP-D10 then? ;-)
A WiFi tyre?
>>My experience of the iPhone in calling is that... well... it just works.
>>The user interface is something special. If I had one I would have a love
>>/
>>hate relationship with it - love the interface, hate certain aspects of
>>it.
>
> Ok.
>
>>The E71 is far more "meh" as far as liking it. It doesn't do much badly,
>>but nor does it have any fancy aspects (other than the size of it, I
>>guess) - it just... works...
>
> Ok.
>
> Daughter has gone off with her little Nokia on the Voda Freedom /
> Passport pack and whilst traditionally not liking Nokias she's quite
> happy to have one in this sort of environment (Bulgarian holiday
> trip). The reason is that if her charger breaks you can bet one of the
> other girls will have one she can borrow. Also there will be a fairly
> good chance they will be able to BT stuff to each other and / or her
> SIM will go in another Nokia and not screw up her phonebook etc. ;-)
On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:16:40 +0100, "DervMan" <thedervman@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Ok, but how does that affect those functions Apple chose (presumably?)
>> not to include but could have the first time round. ie, I'm not
>> talking about the convergence functions but what I'd think most people
>> would expect on even the basic 'phone' these days?
>
>Some of the missing features are overblown.
To us maybe but not if you were using them all the time?
> The iPhone could always handle
>incoming MMS. It couldn't send them until recently.
And BGN explains why elsewhere (Yanks not supporting it so no one gets
it). I believe most other phone manufacturers do so for the total
World market. Are Apple *that* American (still)? I mean, how difficult
would it have been to include TX MMS at the get_go for 'the rest of
the world' ?
> Not all that big a
>deal. Copy and paste - very annoying.
Really? Now I would have thought that would be handy. I always try to
use copy/paste because my dyslexia means there is hardly ever a chance
I'd ever get any field correct if I relied on my memory.
> Inability to multitask - much hot
>air about how it makes it useless, but the TX can't multitask in much the
>same way.
It can play an audio book while playing a simple game and that's about
all I can cope with at once. ;-)
>
>What has and will make the iPhone platform is the applications available.
>Just as with PalmOS. I've used PalmOS devices since 1997 or so and I badly
>miss my Treo 680.
I've also had Psion (Organizer / II) Palm Pilot / Series III etc but
never had need to use them for anything other than toys.
>
>>>
>>>What do you do when the Palm TX runs dry?
>>
>> Carry on using my 6310i. 'Eggs in one basket' comes to mind here. ;-)
>
>Not the same kind of device, though - you can't do the same things on both
>devices...
Indeed, and why I don't always need both at the same time.
>
>>
>> Or were cycle camping away from power for three weeks. ;-)
>
>Solar panel charger?
In England! ;-)
>
>>
>> I would always consider having the option to be a plus. Daughters new
>> camera has an external charger. At first look it may seem clumsy but
>> only till you get a second battery 'just in case' (when you can be
>> charging one battery whilst using the other).
>
>Yeah - I agree. It's a advantage but not a dealbreaker.
It could be a deal breaker though. Imagine you were on a field
assignment and your built-in battery went flat?
>
>>>
>>>That's the first I've heard of this problem, but there you go.
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> http://discussions.apple.com/thread....33355&tstart=0
>
>Yup, really. I don't loiter around iPhone forums all that often mostly
>because the die-hard iPhone fans throw rotten eggs at me for daring point
>out that, yeah it's a good device, but it doesn't yet work for me.
They can be very precious. ;-)
> See
>above regarding using a keyboard. How dare I ruin the asthetics of the user
>interface with a clunky keyboard? ;-)
How dare you indeed. Form over function. Daughters new b/f has a touch
phone of some kind and daughter finds it way too slow for texting. For
that reason she's also quite fussy about the buttons on her phones,
often discounting fairly high spec / cost models because the keyboards
just 'miss the point' (whatever that is).
>
<snip>
>
>I'm basically lazy and forgetful, and don't want to have to remember to
>recharge more devices than necessary. The Zen, like the 6310i, has really
>strong batter life. In my case it's for a user error reason...
Understood. For me it's all about having something that fits and is
self sufficient, like the Quest as opposed to my V or 2610. The V is
very basic and the 2610 externally powered only. However I can run the
V on dry cells and the 2610 has a nice big screen. No one GPS
(therefore any inbuilt / convergent GPS) could ever compete. Horses
for courses.
>
<snip>
>> My most expensive (as in poor VFM) was my first laptop (a Compaq 386).
>> I always wanted one but after about 10 uses I put it down and never
>> picked it up again. My Garmin Quest I'm still using regularly and it's
>> VERY versatile and good at what it does. I have used TomTom's and PDA
>> based GPS's and just don't like them.
>
>I love eBay.
Me too.
> Somebody elses' discarded toy was your primary device for the
>next year. My favourite PalmOS device is still the m515. Very, very
>expensive new, but a bargain used. The T3 came close, but battery life was
>a bit of an issue.
K
>
>I write a lot. Knocking up six hours of PDA use a day isn't difficult.
It would be for me. Entering data on a PDA and 'looking' at that small
screen ... ? ;-(
<snip>
>> I think it does, IF the phone isn't typically as good as most current
>> devices. It's like *needing* a phone to also be a video camera or
>> handle picture messaging, if it can't it's useless. If it can but not
>> to a reasonable standard it might also be considered useless.
>
>Possibly! I only really use the camera in the E71 for sending silly
>pictures or videos. It's a cameraphone: I expect the image to look fuzzy.
No reason why they should these days though eh?
>If I want to take a picture... I use a proper camera.
And that's kept where?
>
<snip
>The
>> iPhone would not be a suitable substitute to her for any of those
>> devices.
>
>Perhaps not, but the iPhone OS is receiving much developer love and
>attention.
Ok
> It's becoming a decent gaming platform.
For me there is only one decent gaming platform and that's the right
PC. I have only ever really been interested in FPS (especially MP) and
don't have a console or hand held as they would never match the
flexibility of the PC (for_my_specific_needs). ie, a game *like* the
one I want to play isn't a solution.
> And of course it does
>the music thing too.
Meh. Bit big compare with the tiny mp3 players you can get these days.
> The compromise is that you maybe end up with something
>that's 8/10s as good as the alternative, but combining four or five roles
>into one, it becomes cheaper to buy and easier to carry. The disadvantages
>are it isn't as good, it is vulnerable to loss or battery dry up, so on and
>so forth.
Indeed. And if you aren't that fussed about most of the 'other' roles
it's just not a valid solution. Like, I *need* to have a GPS that
works in the rain on my motorbike, cycle or when walking. So it has to
be self powered when not on a motor vehicle and further have
replaceable batteries when I'm not going near power for a week or two.
>
>>> My idea device was at one point a Tungsten T3-sized
>>>device with the GSM chipset and handling voice calls via my Bluetooth
>>>wireless headset. The E71 gets pretty close...
Never used BT much for much (and never tethered a PC to phone modem
etc). The nearest I've got to any of that is the Voda bb dongle and
way before that Icom ex PMR radio connected to my Kantronics Packet
Node.
>>
>
>Carry a paper? Pfft! I read papers on the device.
And I never read papers.
>
>But you're right; I have the luxury of only needing to carry my lunch with
>me to work.
The your *priority* is bound to be the all_in_one compact compromised
solution.
>
>>
>> Ok. I would like that but they don't make one good enough yet. Also I
>> couldn't afford to keep updating the whole thing when one bit is
>> upgraded.
>
>Why would one need to upgrade if the model does what you need?
I wouldn't because I wouldn't buy something that was knowingly
deficient at the outset. Like I wouldn't buy a WiFi device that only
supported WEP. ie, I would only consider an iPhone when it was able to
do all I expected of my phone (like send MMS and record video etc. Not
*my* phone you understand, say my daughters phone, I have no need for
a camera or MMS .. it's a 'phone'). ;-)
>I had to upgrade at the end of last year because work moved to an Exchange
>2007 server, which wasn't compatible with any PalmOS application I could
>find. :-( Otherwise I would still be using the Treo 680.
That's what I mean. And if you knew that you needed that feature that
would instantly preclude the Treo form your shopping list.
>
<snip>
>> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a good idea (in principal) and
>> their obvious popularity means there will be plenty of stuff available
>> for them. It frustrates me I have difficulty buying say a small HiFi
>> unit without having to have some (in our case empty) iPod dock on
>> there ... like everyone want's one?
>
>A small hifi is the audio equivalent of a convergent device... It does lots
>of things well enough to be an acceptable compromise.
Until as my Dad has found now the CD play has broken and he has to
dump the lot.
> Buying seperates..?
>:-p
Yep, still the norm here. ;-)
>>>Heh. You have an E50?!
>>
>> Erm yes. Is that good or bad?
>
>It's good...
>
Why and for what please?
<snip>
>>>Have you considered slapping her hand away from the control..?
>>
>> Oh indeed I have, many a time (but am reluctant to do so since she got
>> her green belt at Taiquando. Her blocks are instinctive and firm!).
>> Mind you she seems to have learned a little lesson re that. I was
>> 'suggesting' she stopped playing with the radio and concentrated on
>> her driving. She said 'I have to, driving is boring' (she's prefer to
>> be on her motorbike) and at that point she found a large pothole and a
>> wheel trim flew off into the undergrowth. I recovered the trim then
>> explained that if 'driving was boring' she wasn't (obviously) paying
>> it sufficient attention. ;-)
>
>Hmm. Off at a tangent here, but if she isn't interested, she should use an
>alternative means of getting around.
She is and does (her motorbike).
> I really, really don't want an
>uninterested driver coming off a roundabout, changing the radio again, going
>straight into me...
No (quite right too) and she (generally) knows when she really
shouldn't be fiddling with the radio and is actually a pretty good
driver (in comparison with a lot of what you see on the road
especially), but what she is saying is she doesn't actually enjoy the
driving experience (nor do I for that matter) and especially in
comparison with being on a motorbike (even in the rain / cold
<shrug>). Similarly (and IMHO) my Wife makes for a much better
motorcyclist (XV 750 Virago) than she does as a car driver. It's all
about having better visibility, being more aware of your surroundings
and knowing you are at a greater risk (if you don't stay focused) of
landing on the tarmac than you are in a metal box. No radios to fiddle
with or phones to talk on. However, we want her to get her car
licence so it can be another line on her CV and so that she can be
more self sufficient (and she will be doing her test when she get's
back from hols). FWIW she's driven about 700 miles with me so far (and
only had a couple of formal lessons in-between) and I rarely need to
say much re her driving these days. Anytime we have some driving type
chores to do I get her to drive. Mostly she's willing. ;-)
>
>> Hehe. On that subject I was thinking of designing a sleep aid to help
>> me drown out my tinnitus (possibly why I'm touchy around noise / music
>> etc), especially when I'm trying to get to sleep. It would be
>> something like a white noise generator with an adjustable starting
>> volume, an adjustable ramp-town period and a final volume (which
>> couldn't be 'off'). If I wake up I can hit the 'snooze' button that
>> starts the process again but from a third adjustable volume and
>> shorter ramp period. Is there an iPhone 'app for that'?
>
>You know, if you asked a friendly developer, I'll wager they'll be able to
>knock something up like this very, very quickly.
But would that mean I'd have to buy an iThingy?
> Call it a fancy name like
>iUniverse Noise, as white noise is reputed to be from the Big Bang, and you
>could be on to a winner.
I think I'd make a point of NOT calling it an 'i' anything, just out
of principal (what a load of bollocks all that is).
>
>Maybe. If I'm writing, I'm writing and since I'm writing just text with no
>graphics or diagrams, I can write on anything that handles some version of
>Microsoft Word, for all of my computers to be compatible. The E71 and
>keyboard work best on the train because of their small size. The notebook
>is usually a good compromise almost everywhere else.
Ok.
>
>>>My E71 has this kind of support with the help of some third party
>>>applications.
>>
>> Want to buy my Pirelli LP-D10 then? ;-)
>
>A WiFi tyre?
No, but another 'good idea' purchase that sits in a draw. Sipgate is
ok but not as cheap and easy in most cases as 18185 on our BT phone.
On Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:54:54 +0100, BGN <nickmooney@spamcop.net>
wrote:
>I might have said in my previous post that comparisons of the specs of
>the original iPhone and the Nokia n95 showed that the n95 pissed all
>over the iPhone in terms of specifications,
Ok.
> but in terms of
>*usability* and speed at which the device operated the iPhone won
>hands down.
But I've read of folk (who know their phones and Apples) say that it
isn't particularly fast (might just be on some things) and said lag
can be really awkward?
> The iPhone still managed to get a rather large hold on
>the smartphone market (which is rather good for a first generation
>device) from a company which had never ventured into the mobile phone
>market before.
Agreed, however, I guess many of them may have bought them not because
they were good 'phones' but because they 1) like Apple gear (mainly
from iPods probably), 2) they want a better mp3 player with their
phone, 3) they *want* a touch screen phone and 4) they think having
one is 'cool' (and other reasons I'm sure). However, whilst I respect
them for coming into the market with their own 'thang' they could well
have done even better had they just looked at what could be a deal
breaker (before they even tried one) and ensure they were there at the
beginning. Only someone happy with what bits were on there (and liked
the product on the whole) would spend that sort of cash on that sort
of contract with such restrictions on such a (to them) limited device.
This is still happening today ... many many folk are holding off,
sticking with their potentially inferior phones because the iPhone
*still* doesn't do X or Y. Many of these are self confessed Mac fans
and yet the pull is still not sufficient?
Personally, if it was 25 quid and unlocked (but not jailbroken) I'd
have a play.
>>...They could have made it do all it now does in the first
>>go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
>>wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
>>spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
>>any other 'phone' at the time.
>
>Not really. The primary market for the iPhone was the US. It didn't
>come out in any other country apart from the US until months later.
<snip good explanation of the MMS thing> Thanks. Still does not
justify why Apple did not cater for the world wide market at the
beginning (even if they weren't selling them outside of the US
at_the_time).
>
>>
>>So not really bluetooth as we know it on most other phones? And why
>>is it that limiting?
>
>I've no idea. I must say that I've only ever sent a file over
>bluetooth twice in my life to another mobile phone so it's not a
>feature that I've missed.
Maybe not, but to make it do so would (I imagine) soo simple and then
it wouldn't alienate another whole group of users for whom it is a
deal breaker.
It's not quite the same problem but the same consequence /
justification as those web sites who only write for IE, so users of
other browsers can't get on eBay or their banks etc. Why would you
knowingly isolate a percentage of your own customers?
>
>>Not talking about patches, I'm talking about soft features that could
>>have been there at the beginning. I mean, it's not like they have
>>invented much new by the way of a 'phone' have they?
>
>They haven't reinvented the phone, but they've certainly changed the
>way people use their handset.
Agreed.
> Quote from the Apple WWDC '08::
>>
>"That's all great, but the thing that makes us the happiest is that
>users love the iPhone.
That actually makes me sad. I don't think I love anything (especially
inanimate objects) and that line typifies all those who camp and queue
to 'get their hands on' this sort of thing. I can (sort of) understand
queuing for a sale or to get a limited edition but a mass produced
<thing>. Oh dear.
> 90% customer satisfaction -- that's off the
>charts. What products today have that? 98% are browsing -- mobile
>browsing has gone from nothing to 98% with the iPhone. 94% are using
>email, 90% are using SMS -- 80% are using 10 or more features."
Of course, you can't appreciate something when it doesn't exist. It's
not always the best that wins in the end though is it? Take Windows,
Google, Amazon, VHS, are they really the best or have they just been
lucky (all be that through clever marketing / or promotions etc). Why
don't people have a go at Skype for being 'non SIP compliant'? Because
it works, is generally free and was out there (I believe they are now
heading to be SIP compliant). I have Skype but my router and phone are
SIP compliant.
>
>Average mobile phone users only use four features of their mobile
>phones, so 80% of iPhone customers using 10 or more features (remember
>this is using data from the iPhone 1 OS, which didn't feature anything
>like the AppStore) really does show that people find the iPhone more
>easy to use than other phones.
I'm sure some / many might. But then some can't program their videos
either.
>
>>
>>Well not a lift or the underground, I'm talking ordinary places where
>>you would expect your phone to work (not specific places). Places
>>where the other phone [1] he carries (also on O2) works and the iPhone
>>showed no signal.
>
>While signal reception varies on all phones the metal bezel around the
>iPhone screen works as a signal booster for the antenna which
>generally gives the iPhone better reception than a number of other
>mobiles.
It does?
> The iPhone was designed for use in the US where signals have
>to travel further than they do in Europe (due to the amount of land)
>so signal reception and transmission is tweaked more. I'm guessing
>your friend had/has a dodgy handset?
Not just my friend(s), many (otherwise ecstatic) iPhone users seem to
agree? One mate (recently) dumped his (new) iPhone, for business use
(where *business* primarily meant using the phone for voice) as did
another who backed 5 iPhones for the exact same reason. Bad batch
maybe?
>
>>Is this work use of email and the web you are talking about?
>
>No, it's not all work use, although email generally is and calls to my
>desk are forwarded to my iPhone if I'm away.
Ok.
>
>>Could you not do your job without it?
>
>Like many other people who work in the IT biz we generally keep an eye
>on tech stuff and have lots of gadgets and are often topping up on
>tech or other news and stories via RSS in our spare time. It's quite
>normal in my office.
;-)
>
>>What will you do when (as it will) break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
>
>Do exactly what I do any other time this happens: Get another one.
>It's what insurance is for.
And in the meantime (I sorta meant). Does you life grind to a halt?
>
>>Just as any smart phone / PDA would as there is no such single device
>>that would cater for all my needs. That's why I use the right tool for
>>the job not (even) what some may see as the best compromise currently
>>available. ;-)
>
>My mobile phone isn't a replacement for my computer and my computer
>isn't a replacement for my mobile phone.
Quite right. In the same way a wheelbarrow wouldn't generally replace
a carrier bag.
> Thankfully with devices like
>the iPhone and other smartphones they do cross over in a lot of areas.
Understood.
>This means that I don't have to flop open my MacBook Pro as often as I
>would before to look up something as I know that the iPhone is quite
>capable of many of the tasks I would otherwise have to accomplish on a
>computer.
Maybe I'm lucky as I rarely have (/feel?) the need to 'look up
something' when I'm away from my (a) PC. If I do I'm happy to wait
till I get home or round a mates house. ;-)
> Plus as it's a phone it's with me quite a lot.
There is that.
>
>If I want to call someone
<snip practical iPhone usage overview for BGN>
I've never been nor want to be diary ed. ;-)
>
>
>>Of course. But I think I think you could say PDA that you can
>>sometimes to get to use as a phone.
>
>Dunno what you mean, you need to put more water in it.
<sigh> That it's not a *good* phone. A phone that can't be reached is
of no use (etc). For every thing there is generally a fundamental
function it must perform to be considered acceptable by most. For a
kettle it *must* built water within a reasonable period of time (that
could vary depending on where you are and what the heat source is but
even then the rule still applies). An answering machine must answer
calls, at least. A mobile telephone must be that, mobile and a
telephone. Any mate that has a phone that drops calls, constantly
breaks up or I can't hear them on is told so pretty quickly. "Get rid
of that **** phone". That applied to said mate with the iPhone
*before* I knew had or it was an iPhone. However, if you are always
where there is a strong signal or your particular iPhone doesn't
exhibit those properties then maybe you are lucky.
>
>>So, you appreciate that the iPhone is no replacement for a dedicated
>>GPS.
>
>The Nokia n95 is no replacement for a dedicated GPS.
Indeed.
> No dedicated GPS
>is a replacement for a waterproof 'biker' GPS satnav system.
No, it isn't a GPS if it isn't waterproof (full stop). *I* don't want
to own a piece of kit that is used for guiding me about when I'm
walking, in the car, cycling or on my motorbike and have to worry 'if
it get's a bit damp". Anything else is simply a toy (to me).
> However,
>as there are a couple of satnav apps in the AppStore already and
>TomTom is launching their software for iPhone shortly (including a
>charger and rotational car mount) the iPhone will be a replacement for
>an in-car satnav soon too.
I have an in-car satnav. It's the same one as I use when walking,
cycling or on my motorbike. ;-)
>
>The battery life is in line with other smartphones (v1 iPhone vs v1
>Nokia n95).
Maybe so, but can you talk on your phone when you wife is using the
GPS or your kid using the mp3 player?
>
>>or the alarm isn't
>>as reliable as their real alarm clock because it goes to sleep / flat
>>etc etc etc.
>
>The alarm on a PDA is rather dependent on a battery
And why I only have phones with a week+ of standby.
>and the alarm in
>my alarm clock isn't much good during a power cut.
And that happens how often?
> Also, not sure
>about your 'because it goes to sleep' statement. When the iPhone is
>on flight mode or asleep the alarm still functions, the screen is just
>off until the alarm goes off, appointment reminder, a call, etc. is
>received or any button is pressed.
Ok, well it was just something I read.
> My phone still bings at me during
>the night as emails are received when I forget to flick the
>silent/ringer switch to silent.
You do need to get out more. ;-)
>
>A 7" screen is a bit cumbersome to fit in a pocket.
But it's much easier to use than a 3" one (no matter what gimmicks you
employ on the smaller screen).
> Re: web browsing,
>Safari on the iPhone is rather spiffing in comparison to other
>browsers in that it supports pretty much everything you need to view
>most web pages and double tapping text zooms the paragraph to the size
>of the screen <grabs iPhone and takes a couple of screeners>
What, not typing this on the iPhone? ;-)
>
>1) timesonline.co.uk front page viewed as standard on Safari
><http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3799241278/sizes/o/>
Scaled down to iPhone size I can make out the pictures and the main
heading.
>2) double tapping the top story zooms in to paragraph
><http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3798425411/sizes/o/>
Again, headings mainly and some of the bigger font stuff.
>
>3) rotating iPhone sideways makes text bigger
><http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3798425587/sizes/m/>
That's not bad but I would have got bored before that point.
>
>One can also pinch and pull fingers apart to zoom in or out.
Ok.
>
>I'm just an iPhone user. There are many, many quite vocal 'iPhone
>haters' out there who constantly say how rubbish the iPhone is and
>that the only reason the iPhone is popular is because of Apple's
>marketing but once someone actually uses the iPhone the interface
>generally wins them over.
I neither hat the iPhone nor love my 6310i. I like the fact that I'm
rarely out of service. I like the fact that it has got good audio (no
one says they can't hear me or that I can't hear them). I like the
fact that I charge it weekly and that I can choose pretty well any
network / tariff to use it on, officially.
>Obviously the iPhone isn't for everyone
I think you will find it isn't for the majority. Many couldn't afford
the phone and / or the tariff.
>the the Blackberry brand isn't for everyone either but it's still
>rather scrummy.
Pass, never used one.
> Plus, like with all Apple products, if you don't like
>it you can return it within 14 days for a full refund.
Like you can with much stuff out of many places these days?
Daughter just bought a wheely / rucksack and dragged it up to Scotland
and back (on the train, not behind her motorbike <g>). Hated it, told
the shop on her return and they gave her a full refund.
>
>>> Instead I bought an iPod Touch to replaced my aged iPod.
>>
>>When *do* people listen to their 'iPods'? I (sometimes) have the
>>radio on in the kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, workshop or car. I rarely
>>put on a CD because 1) I can't be bothered 2) I'd get bored with any
>>one band too quickly. With me I listen for- then - to those things I
>>like (I'll even turn it up sometimes) and tune out everything else.
>
>When I'm having a shower in the morning I generally have the Heart FM
>app open (uses GPS for a few seconds to find out where in the country
>you are) then streams your local station via EDGE/3G/WiFi
Hmm, my T|X can do that but I prefer the real radio.
>so I get to
>listen to some moosick and get a heads up on the road situation and
>superficial news before hopping out of the front door.
Ok.
> When I get to
>work and I'm doing software coding or testing or whatever I'm
>generally listening to something with the iPod app on the iPhone.
I was never able to listen to music at work, 'not appropriate'.
> I
>will also occasionally Listen Again to BBC Radio 4 or have some audio
>wallpaper streaming to my iPhone via the iPlayer or will be watching a
>TV programme out of the corner of my eye from the iTunes store or a
>film I've converted for the iPhone while I'm debugging.
Hmmm, you 'kids'. ;-)
>
>>> and
>>>after a while I was using my n95 as a WiFi router and my ipod Touch
>>>connected to it via WiFi and I did pretty much all of my work on that.
>>
>>You must be very patient.
>
>The processor in the iPod Touch and the iPhone is the same so there
>was no reason to be patient.
Noo, I was really meaning no PDA sized / type device is as nice to use
as a real computer .. for 'all your work'. It would be like a mechanic
servicing your car with the bonnet down.
>
>
>Sadly a sleep disorder often keeps me awake for longer than I'd like
>but I find a prescription of RSS feeds, Beejive (MSN/ICQ/etc for
>iPhone) Twitter and facebook or perhaps even some grinding on World of
>Warcraft generally get me to sleep eventually.
I suffer similarly (mainly tinnitus) but Special Brew seems to work
well for me.
>
>>Like most laptops and other WiFi enabled devices no? The only WiFi
>>enabled phone I own is the Pirelli LP-D10 GSM/VoiP jobby and that
>>connects to whatever AP it can (I have 3 here).
>
>PC laptops seem to make a meal out of connecting to WiFi networks
Not here they don't (and I must have 10) but whatever ...
>whereas my MacBook Pro seems to be connected even before the screen
>turns on.
Again, am I wrong or have Apple not had some range issues with some of
their models?
> I remember connecting to my WiFi network on my n95 - one
>had to turn WiFi on (having WiFi on all the time killed the battery)
Ah, the latter is the problem, not the former.
>then open a web browser then it would say would you like to use GPRS
>(1) 3G (2) or WiFi (3) to browse the website,
Not sure what else it could do? It might not be your WiFi network or
you might not want it running up a bike data bill on yer PAYG mobile
service?
> one selected WiFi and it
>would negotiate then bring up the usually malformatted website up
>after a few errors.
Yup, that's the wrong tool for the job. You want a proper computer in
there. ;-)
> On the iPhone one wakes the phone up, opens
>Safari and then it goes to whatever website or bookmark you want.
And squints.
>Ditto with other apps too. It just works. If WiFi isn't there it
>does it via 3G/EDGE or GPRS without prompting.
On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:56:19 +0100, T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>> but in terms of
>>*usability* and speed at which the device operated the iPhone won
>>hands down.
>
>But I've read of folk (who know their phones and Apples) say that it
>isn't particularly fast (might just be on some things) and said lag
>can be really awkward?
All of the reviews I've read of the iPhone and iPhone 3G say how swift
the iPhone is. The iPhone & 3G are even faster now under OS 3.0 than
they were before. The iPhone 3GS has an even faster processor in it
now.
There was a keyboard lag issue in one of the 2.x releases of the
software which was solved rather swiftly by Apple in an update
delivered via iTunes but that only caused occasional issues with the
keyboard, not the OS as a whole. They might have been referring to
that?
>> The iPhone still managed to get a rather large hold on
>>the smartphone market (which is rather good for a first generation
>>device) from a company which had never ventured into the mobile phone
>>market before.
>
>Agreed, however, I guess many of them may have bought them not because
>they were good 'phones' but because they 1) like Apple gear (mainly
>from iPods probably), 2) they want a better mp3 player with their
>phone, 3) they *want* a touch screen phone and 4) they think having
>one is 'cool' (and other reasons I'm sure).
1) The iPhone was my first Apple device.
2) I went through a large number of MP3 players before using an iPod
and decided that Apple's design and usability was the best I could
find and once one understands how to use iTunes then it's quite a
powerful tool.
3) I didn't specifically want a touch-screen phone, I thought they'd
be rather rubbish like LG models but thanks to Apple using a proper
glass screen (instead of plastic) and using their patented Multi-Touch
technology it was a pleasure to use.
4) "Hello, I'm a Mac and I'm not cool" - The Microsoft 'laptop hunter'
adverts seem to have tried to brainwash people into thinking they need
to be cool to own an Apple device, especially because of their "I'm
not cool enough to be a Mac' quotes in their adverts.
>However, whilst I respect
>them for coming into the market with their own 'thang' they could well
>have done even better had they just looked at what could be a deal
>breaker (before they even tried one) and ensure they were there at the
>beginning. Only someone happy with what bits were on there (and liked
>the product on the whole) would spend that sort of cash on that sort
>of contract with such restrictions on such a (to them) limited device.
The original iPhone cost quite a lot and one could just walk into
their local O2 or CPW store, hand over cash and walk out without ever
signing up to a contract. The enforced contract (like pretty much
every phone on the market which isn't PAYG these days) only came in
with the introduction of the iPhone 3G as Apple permitted handset
subsidy by the networks.
Apple like to do things properly and make things easy to use. How
many touch screen phones are marketed as an 'iPhone beater' and have
sales reps saying 'it does this, just like an iPhone' - read back a
few years and you get people modelling MP3 players on an iPod. Hey,
Microsoft even lost a court case against Apple where they stole the
Windows interface from Apple's OS. And pretty much all of the decent
features in XP, Vista and Windows 7 are copies or stuff on Apple's
OSX. Compare Apple's Spotlight to Vista's universal search start
menu. Apple do seem to lead the way in many innovations. Tablet PCs
have been around for years, but when Apple announces and launches
their iTablet next year I bet we see a lot of the PC netbook makers
revamping their range to try and better Apple's offering.
>This is still happening today ... many many folk are holding off,
>sticking with their potentially inferior phones because the iPhone
>*still* doesn't do X or Y. Many of these are self confessed Mac fans
>and yet the pull is still not sufficient?
What features does the iPhone lack at the moment. Bluetooth file
transfer? What features (including usability) does the iphone offer
which other phone makers can't even hope to attain?
>Personally, if it was 25 quid and unlocked (but not jailbroken) I'd
>have a play.
Looks like O2 UK may be losing their iPhone 3G exclusivity to T-Mobile
and Orange next year so this will open up the UK market to more
competition which can only be a good thing when it comes to tariff
prices.
>>>...They could have made it do all it now does in the first
>>>go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
>>>wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
>>>spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
>>>any other 'phone' at the time.
>>
>>Not really. The primary market for the iPhone was the US. It didn't
>>come out in any other country apart from the US until months later.
>
><snip good explanation of the MMS thing> Thanks. Still does not
>justify why Apple did not cater for the world wide market at the
>beginning (even if they weren't selling them outside of the US
>at_the_time).
Apple didn't understand why you would want to pay to send pictures to
friends when you could do it for free via email.
Steven Fry quotes Steve Jobs' "That’s right, MMS – Apple had never
seemed very interested in Multimedia Messaging, dismissing it as a
vestigial or ‘legacy’ service. “Why pay to send pictures and video,”
Steve Jobs asked, “when you can send them for free by email?” Apple
has relented and sweetly smooth MMS implementation is now available"
>It's not quite the same problem but the same consequence /
>justification as those web sites who only write for IE, so users of
>other browsers can't get on eBay or their banks etc. Why would you
>knowingly isolate a percentage of your own customers?
Security, I'm guessing. When you plug an iPhone into a PC and look at
it in Windows Explorer you see it only as a digital camera and the
only folder there is the standard DCIM foler with pictures in it. It's
read only. Interacting with anything else on the iPhone is done
purely with iTunes. You don't drag and drop videos into some
Z:\FLASHMEM\MEDIA\AUDIO\MP3\ folder like on many other phones, iTunes
does it all for you and the filesystem is never seen.
>> Quote from the Apple WWDC '08::
>>>
>>"That's all great, but the thing that makes us the happiest is that
>>users love the iPhone.
>
>That actually makes me sad. I don't think I love anything (especially
>inanimate objects) and that line typifies all those who camp and queue
>to 'get their hands on' this sort of thing. I can (sort of) understand
>queuing for a sale or to get a limited edition but a mass produced
><thing>. Oh dear.
I think you'll find that companies would rather people loved their
products than liked their products or were indifferent to them.
>> 90% customer satisfaction -- that's off the
>>charts. What products today have that? 98% are browsing -- mobile
>>browsing has gone from nothing to 98% with the iPhone. 94% are using
>>email, 90% are using SMS -- 80% are using 10 or more features."
>
>Of course, you can't appreciate something when it doesn't exist. It's
>not always the best that wins in the end though is it? Take Windows,
>Google, Amazon, VHS, are they really the best or have they just been
>lucky (all be that through clever marketing / or promotions etc).
Windows: Mac use is increasing greatly as people start to understand
that it's more reliable and secure than Windows. This is likely
linked to people using things like the iPod and iPhone. The iPhone is
built on OSX Leopard plus Apple releasing products like the new iMac,
a fresh design for the MacBook and MacBook Pro plus the Mac Mini being
more environmentally friendly than any other computer on the market
all help to get some good commercial competition. How much will an
upgrade from Windows XP or Vista to Windows 7 cost? Apple are pricing
the Snow Leopard upgrade of OSX as $29 for Leopard users. That's
quite cheap for a new OS.
Google: I'm quite a fan of Google and the products they offer. What
was Google inferior to? It changed the way people searched for
things. I remember back in the days before Google that searching for
things on t'internet was a rather odd task of adding + and - signs,
puttings quotes around parts of the sentence and essentially trying to
add only the most relevant keywords. Everyone else went on META
keyword tags and Google went on site content and the best results were
based on how many other sites linked to it. One doesn't search for
something online, one goes and Googles for something. Much like
people listen to music on the iPod (even if it's not an iPod) or cook
on the Stove (when it's not a Stove) and do the Hoovering (when they
don't have a Hoover).
VHS: VHS was inferior on all levels for the consumer, whereas an
iPhone isn't so I don't see this comparison.
>Why
>don't people have a go at Skype for being 'non SIP compliant'? Because
>it works, is generally free and was out there (I believe they are now
>heading to be SIP compliant). I have Skype but my router and phone are
>SIP compliant.
There was IP Telephony then there was Skype, which is the same thing
but people know the brand Skype now, so I guess providers will be far
more willing to make their router/etc. Skype compliant as they know
it's going to be easier for the public to understand what it's for
than saying it's SIP compliant.
>>Average mobile phone users only use four features of their mobile
>>phones, so 80% of iPhone customers using 10 or more features (remember
>>this is using data from the iPhone 1 OS, which didn't feature anything
>>like the AppStore) really does show that people find the iPhone more
>>easy to use than other phones.
>
>I'm sure some / many might. But then some can't program their videos
>either.
My mum couldn't program a VCR, but she could program TiVo and has no
issue with programming Sky+HD. It goes to show that if someone makes
a device more intuitive or easy to use then people will be more likely
to use it.
>> The iPhone was designed for use in the US where signals have
>>to travel further than they do in Europe (due to the amount of land)
>>so signal reception and transmission is tweaked more. I'm guessing
>>your friend had/has a dodgy handset?
>
>Not just my friend(s), many (otherwise ecstatic) iPhone users seem to
>agree? One mate (recently) dumped his (new) iPhone, for business use
>(where *business* primarily meant using the phone for voice) as did
>another who backed 5 iPhones for the exact same reason. Bad batch
>maybe?
Not sure on this one, I don't recall seeing anything about bad batches
of iPhones but I've had similar problems on other handsets in the past
on T-Mobile and a call to their tech team (after you get past customer
services) has generally pointed to a mis-configured micro-cell. YMMV,
however.
>>>What will you do when (as it will) break / die / get stolen / lost one day?
>>
>>Do exactly what I do any other time this happens: Get another one.
>>It's what insurance is for.
>
>And in the meantime (I sorta meant). Does you life grind to a halt?
I have reached into my pocket and found it empty upon arriving at work
and after a quick check on Apple's Fine My iPhone feature it was still
at home. I didn't go back and get it, but I felt that I was rather
disconnected until the end of the day. I seemed to have spare time
when going out for a fag and coudn't instantly look something up
outside.
>>This means that I don't have to flop open my MacBook Pro as often as I
>>would before to look up something as I know that the iPhone is quite
>>capable of many of the tasks I would otherwise have to accomplish on a
>>computer.
>
>Maybe I'm lucky as I rarely have (/feel?) the need to 'look up
>something' when I'm away from my (a) PC. If I do I'm happy to wait
>till I get home or round a mates house. ;-)
An example of this is when I'm at a friends house and we see an
actress or actor who we know we've seen someone else, I open Safari on
the iPhone and look at the IMDB.
>> No dedicated GPS
>>is a replacement for a waterproof 'biker' GPS satnav system.
>
>No, it isn't a GPS if it isn't waterproof (full stop). *I* don't want
>to own a piece of kit that is used for guiding me about when I'm
>walking, in the car, cycling or on my motorbike and have to worry 'if
>it get's a bit damp". Anything else is simply a toy (to me).
I'm not entirely with you on that one. For walking around or whatever
I just use the Google Maps app on the iPhone (which features walking
directions) but a satnav is still a satnav even if it's not
waterproof. Motorcycle users like you and I are very much the
minority with only a couple of devices suitable for year-round use, so
we need to have more specialist equipment. My Garmin 2610 is great,
but if I wanted to walk around with it in my hand it's not much good
because 1) It's bulky and 2) it doesn't have a battery.
>>The battery life is in line with other smartphones (v1 iPhone vs v1
>>Nokia n95).
>
>Maybe so, but can you talk on your phone when you wife is using the
>GPS or your kid using the mp3 player?
You can talk on the phone (via hands-free/bluetooth or by shouting at
the speakerphone) while the wife is using GPS or surfing the net due
the joys of 3G and yes, you can even play music from the iPod app at
the same time. I would try to avoid doing all three while driving as
a general rule though.
>>and the alarm in
>>my alarm clock isn't much good during a power cut.
>
>And that happens how often?
A couple of times a year down here in the sticks
>>A 7" screen is a bit cumbersome to fit in a pocket.
>
>But it's much easier to use than a 3" one (no matter what gimmicks you
>employ on the smaller screen).
I'd rather have a 3" screen than no screen.
>> Re: web browsing,
>>Safari on the iPhone is rather spiffing in comparison to other
>>browsers in that it supports pretty much everything you need to view
>>most web pages and double tapping text zooms the paragraph to the size
>>of the screen <grabs iPhone and takes a couple of screeners>
>
>What, not typing this on the iPhone? ;-)
I've been known to use usenet of my iPhone before, NewsTap (dedicated
usenet client) is free from the AppStore.
>>3) rotating iPhone sideways makes text bigger
>><http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3798425587/sizes/m/>
>
>That's not bad but I would have got bored before that point.
You can skip and just use it as landscape mode, my examples were
illustrative of the features.
>> Plus, like with all Apple products, if you don't like
>>it you can return it within 14 days for a full refund.
>
>Like you can with much stuff out of many places these days?
Buy a computer from PC World, use it for a couple of weeks and then
box it back up and say "Naa, I just don't like it" and see how many
seconds it takes for them to say "No, you're not having a refund as
you've opened it and used it"
>>whereas my MacBook Pro seems to be connected even before the screen
>>turns on.
>
>Again, am I wrong or have Apple not had some range issues with some of
>their models?
I'm not familiar with this issue.
>>then open a web browser then it would say would you like to use GPRS
>>(1) 3G (2) or WiFi (3) to browse the website,
>
>Not sure what else it could do? It might not be your WiFi network or
>you might not want it running up a bike data bill on yer PAYG mobile
>service?
I guess all iPhones (even PAYG) being sold on unlimited data tariffs
negate this issue.
>> one selected WiFi and it
>>would negotiate then bring up the usually malformatted website up
>>after a few errors.
>
>Yup, that's the wrong tool for the job. You want a proper computer in
>there. ;-)
Or just a proper web browser.
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
"BGN" <nickmooney@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:0cer75p72mvpfp9qh402kgeh9h06666qeg@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:56:19 +0100, T i m <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>> but in terms of
>>>*usability* and speed at which the device operated the iPhone won
>>>hands down.
>>
>>But I've read of folk (who know their phones and Apples) say that it
>>isn't particularly fast (might just be on some things) and said lag
>>can be really awkward?
>
> All of the reviews I've read of the iPhone and iPhone 3G say how swift
> the iPhone is. The iPhone & 3G are even faster now under OS 3.0 than
> they were before. The iPhone 3GS has an even faster processor in it
> now.
>
> There was a keyboard lag issue in one of the 2.x releases of the
> software which was solved rather swiftly by Apple in an update
> delivered via iTunes but that only caused occasional issues with the
> keyboard, not the OS as a whole. They might have been referring to
> that?
Might be. For many people the iPhone is like marmite: you love it or you
hate it. I sit somewhere in the middle (actually, heh, I love some aspects,
but hate a couple - see later).
>>> The iPhone still managed to get a rather large hold on
>>>the smartphone market (which is rather good for a first generation
>>>device) from a company which had never ventured into the mobile phone
>>>market before.
>>
>>Agreed, however, I guess many of them may have bought them not because
>>they were good 'phones' but because they 1) like Apple gear (mainly
>>from iPods probably), 2) they want a better mp3 player with their
>>phone, 3) they *want* a touch screen phone and 4) they think having
>>one is 'cool' (and other reasons I'm sure).
>
> 1) The iPhone was my first Apple device.
> 2) I went through a large number of MP3 players before using an iPod
> and decided that Apple's design and usability was the best I could
> find and once one understands how to use iTunes then it's quite a
> powerful tool.
> 3) I didn't specifically want a touch-screen phone, I thought they'd
> be rather rubbish like LG models but thanks to Apple using a proper
> glass screen (instead of plastic) and using their patented Multi-Touch
> technology it was a pleasure to use.
> 4) "Hello, I'm a Mac and I'm not cool" - The Microsoft 'laptop hunter'
> adverts seem to have tried to brainwash people into thinking they need
> to be cool to own an Apple device, especially because of their "I'm
> not cool enough to be a Mac' quotes in their adverts.
It isn't helped by some of the mouth-foaming Mac-lovers and their opinion
that anything with Windows requires constant maintenance and is difficult to
use, whereas anything with a Mac badge it pretty much perfect right out of
the box. See below. :-p
>>However, whilst I respect
>>them for coming into the market with their own 'thang' they could well
>>have done even better had they just looked at what could be a deal
>>breaker (before they even tried one) and ensure they were there at the
>>beginning. Only someone happy with what bits were on there (and liked
>>the product on the whole) would spend that sort of cash on that sort
>>of contract with such restrictions on such a (to them) limited device.
>
> The original iPhone cost quite a lot and one could just walk into
> their local O2 or CPW store, hand over cash and walk out without ever
> signing up to a contract. The enforced contract (like pretty much
> every phone on the market which isn't PAYG these days) only came in
> with the introduction of the iPhone 3G as Apple permitted handset
> subsidy by the networks.
>
> Apple like to do things properly and make things easy to use.
Yes. And it really isn't rocket science either. To get an Apple notebook
to connect to a wireless network you just... well... tell it to connect.
Supply passwords if necessary. Drink tea.
Not always the case with a Windows machine. And Linux, heh.
> How
> many touch screen phones are marketed as an 'iPhone beater' and have
> sales reps saying 'it does this, just like an iPhone'
Yesterday my wife and I went into O2 to look at the Nokia 5800. It took
almost eight lines before the chap tried to sell us the iPhone. "No, we
know about the iPhone, we want to see the Nokia 5800."
> - read back a
> few years and you get people modelling MP3 players on an iPod. Hey,
> Microsoft even lost a court case against Apple where they stole the
> Windows interface from Apple's OS. And pretty much all of the decent
> features in XP, Vista and Windows 7 are copies or stuff on Apple's
> OSX. Compare Apple's Spotlight to Vista's universal search start
> menu. Apple do seem to lead the way in many innovations. Tablet PCs
> have been around for years, but when Apple announces and launches
> their iTablet next year I bet we see a lot of the PC netbook makers
> revamping their range to try and better Apple's offering.
Heh. Quite possibly.
>>This is still happening today ... many many folk are holding off,
>>sticking with their potentially inferior phones because the iPhone
>>*still* doesn't do X or Y. Many of these are self confessed Mac fans
>>and yet the pull is still not sufficient?
>
> What features does the iPhone lack at the moment. Bluetooth file
> transfer?
Multitasking and proper Bluetooth support, specifically the keyboard driver.
Multitasking isn't such a big deal until we consider how powerful and
flexible the iPhone is in conjunction with the number of applications. I'm
a big fan of PalmOS and this operating system didn't multitask (except it
did, sort of, for music and one excellent email application) and in some
respects the iPhone feels a bit like a spiritual successor to PalmOS.
As for the keyboard driver, a great way (heh) to experience some mouth
frothy Mac fans is to suggest that Apple pull their finger out and allow or
write a Bluetooth keyboard driver. With that big screen and a landscape
mode, the iPhone would be *perfect* as a writers' tool. Tie it in with some
multitasking and *that* browser and one could have a near-perfect research
and writing instrument. But... noooooo. Anyway, some iPhone fans get all
rather upset when you suggest a physical keyboard would improve matters. As
I am want to suggest, I don't care if they think it would ruin the
asthetics, *I* want a physical keyboard...
> What features (including usability) does the iphone offer
> which other phone makers can't even hope to attain?
>
>>Personally, if it was 25 quid and unlocked (but not jailbroken) I'd
>>have a play.
>
> Looks like O2 UK may be losing their iPhone 3G exclusivity to T-Mobile
> and Orange next year so this will open up the UK market to more
> competition which can only be a good thing when it comes to tariff
> prices.
They already have. If you are a big spender with T-Mobile and threaten to
leave, they have up to 150 a week to give away to customers...
>>>>...They could have made it do all it now does in the first
>>>>go but then (and I guess this *could* just be me being cynical) they
>>>>wouldn't have been able to get those interested in the product to
>>>>spend more money, money they wouldn't have spent had it been nearly
>>>>any other 'phone' at the time.
>>>
>>>Not really. The primary market for the iPhone was the US. It didn't
>>>come out in any other country apart from the US until months later.
>>
>><snip good explanation of the MMS thing> Thanks. Still does not
>>justify why Apple did not cater for the world wide market at the
>>beginning (even if they weren't selling them outside of the US
>>at_the_time).
>
> Apple didn't understand why you would want to pay to send pictures to
> friends when you could do it for free via email.
And you know, I'm the same. Admittedly, some of my pikey friends
complained that I didn't send them any more blurred and pixelated images of
something that looked a little bit like our cat hanging out of a tree, or
something, but all bar one of my regular contacts now have a smartphone or
similar device able to cope with 3.x Mpixel pictures.
The last one is my good lady wife who by happy coincidence is inviting me to
take her to the O2 store to resolve that final issue this morning...
> <http://www.stephenfry.com/2009/06/19/iphone-therefore-i-am-stephen-reviews-apples-iphone-3gs/>
>
> Steven Fry quotes Steve Jobs' "That's right, MMS - Apple had never
> seemed very interested in Multimedia Messaging, dismissing it as a
> vestigial or 'legacy' service. "Why pay to send pictures and video,"
> Steve Jobs asked, "when you can send them for free by email?" Apple
> has relented and sweetly smooth MMS implementation is now available"
>
>>It's not quite the same problem but the same consequence /
>>justification as those web sites who only write for IE, so users of
>>other browsers can't get on eBay or their banks etc. Why would you
>>knowingly isolate a percentage of your own customers?
>
> Security, I'm guessing. When you plug an iPhone into a PC and look at
> it in Windows Explorer you see it only as a digital camera and the
> only folder there is the standard DCIM foler with pictures in it. It's
> read only. Interacting with anything else on the iPhone is done
> purely with iTunes. You don't drag and drop videos into some
> Z:\FLASHMEM\MEDIA\AUDIO\MP3\ folder like on many other phones, iTunes
> does it all for you and the filesystem is never seen.
I'm not planning on using iTunes with Charlie's iPhone.
>>> Quote from the Apple WWDC '08::
>>>>
>>>"That's all great, but the thing that makes us the happiest is that
>>>users love the iPhone.
>>
>>That actually makes me sad. I don't think I love anything (especially
>>inanimate objects) and that line typifies all those who camp and queue
>>to 'get their hands on' this sort of thing. I can (sort of) understand
>>queuing for a sale or to get a limited edition but a mass produced
>><thing>. Oh dear.
>
> I think you'll find that companies would rather people loved their
> products than liked their products or were indifferent to them.
>>> 90% customer satisfaction -- that's off the
>>>charts. What products today have that? 98% are browsing -- mobile
>>>browsing has gone from nothing to 98% with the iPhone. 94% are using
>>>email, 90% are using SMS -- 80% are using 10 or more features."
>>
>>Of course, you can't appreciate something when it doesn't exist. It's
>>not always the best that wins in the end though is it? Take Windows,
>>Google, Amazon, VHS, are they really the best or have they just been
>>lucky (all be that through clever marketing / or promotions etc).
>
> Windows: Mac use is increasing greatly as people start to understand
> that it's more reliable and secure than Windows.
You forgot the missing bit, "for numpty users."
> This is likely
> linked to people using things like the iPod and iPhone. The iPhone is
> built on OSX Leopard plus Apple releasing products like the new iMac,
> a fresh design for the MacBook and MacBook Pro plus the Mac Mini being
> more environmentally friendly than any other computer on the market
> all help to get some good commercial competition. How much will an
> upgrade from Windows XP or Vista to Windows 7 cost? Apple are pricing
> the Snow Leopard upgrade of OSX as $29 for Leopard users. That's
> quite cheap for a new OS.
>
> Google: I'm quite a fan of Google and the products they offer. What
> was Google inferior to? It changed the way people searched for
> things. I remember back in the days before Google that searching for
> things on t'internet was a rather odd task of adding + and - signs,
> puttings quotes around parts of the sentence and essentially trying to
> add only the most relevant keywords. Everyone else went on META
> keyword tags and Google went on site content and the best results were
> based on how many other sites linked to it. One doesn't search for
> something online, one goes and Googles for something. Much like
> people listen to music on the iPod (even if it's not an iPod) or cook
> on the Stove (when it's not a Stove) and do the Hoovering (when they
> don't have a Hoover).
>
> VHS: VHS was inferior on all levels for the consumer, whereas an
> iPhone isn't so I don't see this comparison.
>
>>Why
>>don't people have a go at Skype for being 'non SIP compliant'? Because
>>it works, is generally free and was out there (I believe they are now
>>heading to be SIP compliant). I have Skype but my router and phone are
>>SIP compliant.
>
> There was IP Telephony then there was Skype, which is the same thing
> but people know the brand Skype now, so I guess providers will be far
> more willing to make their router/etc. Skype compliant as they know
> it's going to be easier for the public to understand what it's for
> than saying it's SIP compliant.
>
>>>Average mobile phone users only use four features of their mobile
>>>phones, so 80% of iPhone customers using 10 or more features (remember
>>>this is using data from the iPhone 1 OS, which didn't feature anything
>>>like the AppStore) really does show that people find the iPhone more
>>>easy to use than other phones.
>>
>>I'm sure some / many might. But then some can't program their videos
>>either.
>
> My mum couldn't program a VCR, but she could program TiVo and has no
> issue with programming Sky+HD. It goes to show that if someone makes
> a device more intuitive or easy to use then people will be more likely
> to use it.
>
>>> The iPhone was designed for use in the US where signals have
>>>to travel further than they do in Europe (due to the amount of land)
>>>so signal reception and transmission is tweaked more. I'm guessing
>>>your friend had/has a dodgy handset?
>>
>>Not just my friend(s), many (otherwise ecstatic) iPhone users seem to
>>agree? One mate (recently) dumped his (new) iPhone, for business use
>>(where *business* primarily meant using the phone for voice) as did
>>another who backed 5 iPhones for the exact same reason. Bad batch
>>maybe?
>
> Not sure on this one, I don't recall seeing anything about bad batches
> of iPhones but I've had similar problems on other handsets in the past
> on T-Mobile and a call to their tech team (after you get past customer
> services) has generally pointed to a mis-configured micro-cell. YMMV,
> however.
It happens. Visit most forums for specific items (cars, handsets,
notebooks) and you'd end up never buying that particular product because so
many people only pop up to moan or get help about their problems.
The overwhelming majority of my smartphone owning buddies are satisfied with
their handset. They all have minor moans. If somebody had a <insert
smartphone> with <insert problem> then we'd know about it...
>>>>What will you do when (as it will) break / die / get stolen / lost one
>>>>day?
>>>
>>>Do exactly what I do any other time this happens: Get another one.
>>>It's what insurance is for.
>>
>>And in the meantime (I sorta meant). Does you life grind to a halt?
Mine might. I'd have to take a day off sick. <g>
> I have reached into my pocket and found it empty upon arriving at work
> and after a quick check on Apple's Fine My iPhone feature it was still
> at home. I didn't go back and get it, but I felt that I was rather
> disconnected until the end of the day. I seemed to have spare time
> when going out for a fag and coudn't instantly look something up
> outside.
>
>>>This means that I don't have to flop open my MacBook Pro as often as I
>>>would before to look up something as I know that the iPhone is quite
>>>capable of many of the tasks I would otherwise have to accomplish on a
>>>computer.
>>
>>Maybe I'm lucky as I rarely have (/feel?) the need to 'look up
>>something' when I'm away from my (a) PC. If I do I'm happy to wait
>>till I get home or round a mates house. ;-)
>
> An example of this is when I'm at a friends house and we see an
> actress or actor who we know we've seen someone else, I open Safari on
> the iPhone and look at the IMDB.
>
>>> No dedicated GPS
>>>is a replacement for a waterproof 'biker' GPS satnav system.
>>
>>No, it isn't a GPS if it isn't waterproof (full stop). *I* don't want
>>to own a piece of kit that is used for guiding me about when I'm
>>walking, in the car, cycling or on my motorbike and have to worry 'if
>>it get's a bit damp". Anything else is simply a toy (to me).
>
> I'm not entirely with you on that one. For walking around or whatever
> I just use the Google Maps app on the iPhone (which features walking
> directions) but a satnav is still a satnav even if it's not
> waterproof. Motorcycle users like you and I are very much the
> minority with only a couple of devices suitable for year-round use, so
> we need to have more specialist equipment. My Garmin 2610 is great,
> but if I wanted to walk around with it in my hand it's not much good
> because 1) It's bulky and 2) it doesn't have a battery.
>
>>>The battery life is in line with other smartphones (v1 iPhone vs v1
>>>Nokia n95).
>>
>>Maybe so, but can you talk on your phone when you wife is using the
>>GPS or your kid using the mp3 player?
>
> You can talk on the phone (via hands-free/bluetooth or by shouting at
> the speakerphone) while the wife is using GPS or surfing the net due
> the joys of 3G and yes, you can even play music from the iPod app at
> the same time. I would try to avoid doing all three while driving as
> a general rule though.
Not to mention that it's a personal device, designed for one person to use
at any one time.
>>>and the alarm in
>>>my alarm clock isn't much good during a power cut.
>>
>>And that happens how often?
>
> A couple of times a year down here in the sticks
>
>>>A 7" screen is a bit cumbersome to fit in a pocket.
>>
>>But it's much easier to use than a 3" one (no matter what gimmicks you
>>employ on the smaller screen).
>
> I'd rather have a 3" screen than no screen.
I'm also not convinced that it's easier. That's a personal decision.
>>> Re: web browsing,
>>>Safari on the iPhone is rather spiffing in comparison to other
>>>browsers in that it supports pretty much everything you need to view
>>>most web pages and double tapping text zooms the paragraph to the size
>>>of the screen <grabs iPhone and takes a couple of screeners>
>>
>>What, not typing this on the iPhone? ;-)
>
> I've been known to use usenet of my iPhone before, NewsTap (dedicated
> usenet client) is free from the AppStore.
>
>>>3) rotating iPhone sideways makes text bigger
>>><http://www.flickr.com/photos/hayn0r/3798425587/sizes/m/>
>>
>>That's not bad but I would have got bored before that point.
>
> You can skip and just use it as landscape mode, my examples were
> illustrative of the features.
>
>>> Plus, like with all Apple products, if you don't like
>>>it you can return it within 14 days for a full refund.
>>
>>Like you can with much stuff out of many places these days?
>
> Buy a computer from PC World, use it for a couple of weeks and then
> box it back up and say "Naa, I just don't like it" and see how many
> seconds it takes for them to say "No, you're not having a refund as
> you've opened it and used it"
>
>>>whereas my MacBook Pro seems to be connected even before the screen
>>>turns on.
>>
>>Again, am I wrong or have Apple not had some range issues with some of
>>their models?
>
> I'm not familiar with this issue.
All manufacturers have issues with all of their devices from time to time.
>>>then open a web browser then it would say would you like to use GPRS
>>>(1) 3G (2) or WiFi (3) to browse the website,
>>
>>Not sure what else it could do? It might not be your WiFi network or
>>you might not want it running up a bike data bill on yer PAYG mobile
>>service?
>
> I guess all iPhones (even PAYG) being sold on unlimited data tariffs
> negate this issue.
>
>>> one selected WiFi and it
>>>would negotiate then bring up the usually malformatted website up
>>>after a few errors.
>>
>>Yup, that's the wrong tool for the job. You want a proper computer in
>>there. ;-)
>
> Or just a proper web browser.
"T i m" <news@spaced.me.uk> wrote in message
news:6ueq7556aq0tmarg24imcr972gqjefjsha@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 07:16:40 +0100, "DervMan" <thedervman@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> Ok, but how does that affect those functions Apple chose (presumably?)
>>> not to include but could have the first time round. ie, I'm not
>>> talking about the convergence functions but what I'd think most people
>>> would expect on even the basic 'phone' these days?
>>
>>Some of the missing features are overblown.
>
> To us maybe but not if you were using them all the time?
Then the device isn't "fit for purpose" and anybody with half a brain would
check on this first.
MMS is a great example. The reason why it wasn't included until very
recently seems to be a combination of the fact that the American networks
didn't support it and, if one can email, there is not all that much point in
sending a lower quality picture that is less accessible.
In my own circle of friends, those people who sent a lot of MMS images
simply reverted to sending pictures via email. To everybody else in the
group who happened to already have email-capable handsets.
One of the iPhone's greatest weaknesses and a dealbreaker for me is that it
cannot handle a Bluetooth keyboard driver. Fortunately, I checked before
even considering the device.
>> The iPhone could always handle
>>incoming MMS. It couldn't send them until recently.
>
> And BGN explains why elsewhere (Yanks not supporting it so no one gets
> it). I believe most other phone manufacturers do so for the total
> World market. Are Apple *that* American (still)? I mean, how difficult
> would it have been to include TX MMS at the get_go for 'the rest of
> the world' ?
Because the Limey networks are set up to charge pikey Limeys lots of money
to send poor quality images? Who knows.
>> Not all that big a
>>deal. Copy and paste - very annoying.
>
> Really? Now I would have thought that would be handy. I always try to
> use copy/paste because my dyslexia means there is hardly ever a chance
> I'd ever get any field correct if I relied on my memory.
You missed my point. I said that missing MMS wasn't that big a deal, but
copy and paste is. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but would annoy
me immensely.
>> Inability to multitask - much hot
>>air about how it makes it useless, but the TX can't multitask in much the
>>same way.
>
> It can play an audio book while playing a simple game and that's about
> all I can cope with at once. ;-)
It's a simpler device with less functionality, though. What if you wanted
to download a large file and continue working on a document, then check up
on where your lunch date was via Google Latitude? This can't be done this
side of jailbreaking the iPhone and that's a real shame.
>>What has and will make the iPhone platform is the applications available.
>>Just as with PalmOS. I've used PalmOS devices since 1997 or so and I
>>badly
>>miss my Treo 680.
>
> I've also had Psion (Organizer / II) Palm Pilot / Series III etc but
> never had need to use them for anything other than toys.
Toys, eh? Each to his or her own. My diary, todo and contacts reside in
the PDA aspect of whatever device I'm using. Integrated message management
is a very sweet toy. Rather than enter in a bunch of numbers into a new
'phone I can synchronise the device. Something I used to do with various
handsets and PalmOS devices is to Bluetooth send the number to the handset,
which it then called, and punted the call to the Bluetooth headset. This
meant that I could simply leave the mobile in my bag, pocket, whatever. The
PDA also handled email again wirelessly. I barely used the handset, in
terms of touching it, but it handled lots of calls and data...
>>>>What do you do when the Palm TX runs dry?
>>>
>>> Carry on using my 6310i. 'Eggs in one basket' comes to mind here. ;-)
>>
>>Not the same kind of device, though - you can't do the same things on both
>>devices...
>
> Indeed, and why I don't always need both at the same time.
>>
>>>
>>> Or were cycle camping away from power for three weeks. ;-)
>>
>>Solar panel charger?
>
> In England! ;-)
Yeah, they work. Better in California though.
>>> I would always consider having the option to be a plus. Daughters new
>>> camera has an external charger. At first look it may seem clumsy but
>>> only till you get a second battery 'just in case' (when you can be
>>> charging one battery whilst using the other).
>>
>>Yeah - I agree. It's a advantage but not a dealbreaker.
>
> It could be a deal breaker though. Imagine you were on a field
> assignment and your built-in battery went flat?
That's where I have to make other compromises, such as buying a charger
lead, or sometimes just making sure the device is fully charged before
leaving that morning.
>>>>That's the first I've heard of this problem, but there you go.
>>>
>>> Really?
>>>
>>> http://discussions.apple.com/thread....33355&tstart=0
>>
>>Yup, really. I don't loiter around iPhone forums all that often mostly
>>because the die-hard iPhone fans throw rotten eggs at me for daring point
>>out that, yeah it's a good device, but it doesn't yet work for me.
>
> They can be very precious. ;-)
>
>> See
>>above regarding using a keyboard. How dare I ruin the asthetics of the
>>user
>>interface with a clunky keyboard? ;-)
>
> How dare you indeed. Form over function. Daughters new b/f has a touch
> phone of some kind and daughter finds it way too slow for texting. For
> that reason she's also quite fussy about the buttons on her phones,
> often discounting fairly high spec / cost models because the keyboards
> just 'miss the point' (whatever that is).
Personal choice and all that. For me the current "sweet spot" is a hardware
front-mounted QWERTY keyboard but with the ability to connect with a
wireless keyboard. I can't write quickly on it but I can use the device one
handed, other people can input data if they need to. I have really
struggled with slider-type keyboards, as they are very hard to use one
handed and quite often, absolutely no quicker then the smaller,
front-mounted keyboard anyway.
> <snip>
>>
>>I'm basically lazy and forgetful, and don't want to have to remember to
>>recharge more devices than necessary. The Zen, like the 6310i, has really
>>strong batter life. In my case it's for a user error reason...
>
> Understood. For me it's all about having something that fits and is
> self sufficient, like the Quest as opposed to my V or 2610. The V is
> very basic and the 2610 externally powered only. However I can run the
> V on dry cells and the 2610 has a nice big screen. No one GPS
> (therefore any inbuilt / convergent GPS) could ever compete. Horses
> for courses.
>>
> <snip>
>
>>> My most expensive (as in poor VFM) was my first laptop (a Compaq 386).
>>> I always wanted one but after about 10 uses I put it down and never
>>> picked it up again. My Garmin Quest I'm still using regularly and it's
>>> VERY versatile and good at what it does. I have used TomTom's and PDA
>>> based GPS's and just don't like them.
>>
>>I love eBay.
>
> Me too.
>
>> Somebody elses' discarded toy was your primary device for the
>>next year. My favourite PalmOS device is still the m515. Very, very
>>expensive new, but a bargain used. The T3 came close, but battery life
>>was
>>a bit of an issue.
>
> K
>>
>>I write a lot. Knocking up six hours of PDA use a day isn't difficult.
>
> It would be for me. Entering data on a PDA and 'looking' at that small
> screen ... ? ;-(
I imagine a few more years of this and I'll be in the same boat...
> <snip>
>
>>> I think it does, IF the phone isn't typically as good as most current
>>> devices. It's like *needing* a phone to also be a video camera or
>>> handle picture messaging, if it can't it's useless. If it can but not
>>> to a reasonable standard it might also be considered useless.
>>
>>Possibly! I only really use the camera in the E71 for sending silly
>>pictures or videos. It's a cameraphone: I expect the image to look fuzzy.
>
> No reason why they should these days though eh?
The size of the lens as one. By camera, I mean... drum roll... a 35mm SLR.
Proper mechanical camera, type thing.
>>If I want to take a picture... I use a proper camera.
>
> And that's kept where?
Where it's needed, which isn't often; by the time I've lugged the lens,
tripods, films, so on and so forth, it has its own dedicated bag.
Cameraphones are for messing about.
> <snip
>>The
>>> iPhone would not be a suitable substitute to her for any of those
>>> devices.
>>
>>Perhaps not, but the iPhone OS is receiving much developer love and
>>attention.
>
> Ok
>
>> It's becoming a decent gaming platform.
>
> For me there is only one decent gaming platform and that's the right
> PC. I have only ever really been interested in FPS (especially MP) and
> don't have a console or hand held as they would never match the
> flexibility of the PC (for_my_specific_needs). ie, a game *like* the
> one I want to play isn't a solution.
And this isn't portable...
>> And of course it does
>>the music thing too.
>
> Meh. Bit big compare with the tiny mp3 players you can get these days.
>
>> The compromise is that you maybe end up with something
>>that's 8/10s as good as the alternative, but combining four or five roles
>>into one, it becomes cheaper to buy and easier to carry. The
>>disadvantages
>>are it isn't as good, it is vulnerable to loss or battery dry up, so on
>>and
>>so forth.
> Indeed. And if you aren't that fussed about most of the 'other' roles
> it's just not a valid solution. Like, I *need* to have a GPS that
> works in the rain on my motorbike, cycle or when walking. So it has to
> be self powered when not on a motor vehicle and further have
> replaceable batteries when I'm not going near power for a week or two.
>>
>>>> My idea device was at one point a Tungsten T3-sized
>>>>device with the GSM chipset and handling voice calls via my Bluetooth
>>>>wireless headset. The E71 gets pretty close...
>
> Never used BT much for much (and never tethered a PC to phone modem
> etc). The nearest I've got to any of that is the Voda bb dongle and
> way before that Icom ex PMR radio connected to my Kantronics Packet
> Node.
>>>
>>
>>Carry a paper? Pfft! I read papers on the device.
>
> And I never read papers.
I try to avoid it whenever I can.
>>But you're right; I have the luxury of only needing to carry my lunch with
>>me to work.
>
> The your *priority* is bound to be the all_in_one compact compromised
> solution.
>>
>>>
>>> Ok. I would like that but they don't make one good enough yet. Also I
>>> couldn't afford to keep updating the whole thing when one bit is
>>> upgraded.
>>
>>Why would one need to upgrade if the model does what you need?
>
> I wouldn't because I wouldn't buy something that was knowingly
> deficient at the outset. Like I wouldn't buy a WiFi device that only
> supported WEP. ie, I would only consider an iPhone when it was able to
> do all I expected of my phone (like send MMS and record video etc. Not
> *my* phone you understand, say my daughters phone, I have no need for
> a camera or MMS .. it's a 'phone'). ;-)
Heh. Mine is a connected organiser.
>>I had to upgrade at the end of last year because work moved to an Exchange
>>2007 server, which wasn't compatible with any PalmOS application I could
>>find. :-( Otherwise I would still be using the Treo 680.
>
> That's what I mean. And if you knew that you needed that feature that
> would instantly preclude the Treo form your shopping list.
Yeah and it did. When I bought the Treo 680, we had no plans and
importantly, no budget to upgrade from Exchange 2003 to 2007. Six months
later than had all changed, much to my frustration. That required going
through the due diligence again to find a suitable handset.
> <snip>
>
>>> Don't get me wrong, I think they are a good idea (in principal) and
>>> their obvious popularity means there will be plenty of stuff available
>>> for them. It frustrates me I have difficulty buying say a small HiFi
>>> unit without having to have some (in our case empty) iPod dock on
>>> there ... like everyone want's one?
>>
>>A small hifi is the audio equivalent of a convergent device... It does
>>lots
>>of things well enough to be an acceptable compromise.
>
> Until as my Dad has found now the CD play has broken and he has to
> dump the lot.
That's true of lots of things, though - it's cheaper to replace than to
repair.
>> Buying seperates..?
>>:-p
>
> Yep, still the norm here. ;-)
>
>>>>Heh. You have an E50?!
>>>
>>> Erm yes. Is that good or bad?
>>
>>It's good...
>>
> Why and for what please?
The E50 is a SymbianOS S60 handset, which is just about as capable as the
later handsets, but a candybar device with a numeric keypad.
> <snip>
>
>>>>Have you considered slapping her hand away from the control..?
>>>
>>> Oh indeed I have, many a time (but am reluctant to do so since she got
>>> her green belt at Taiquando. Her blocks are instinctive and firm!).
>>> Mind you she seems to have learned a little lesson re that. I was
>>> 'suggesting' she stopped playing with the radio and concentrated on
>>> her driving. She said 'I have to, driving is boring' (she's prefer to
>>> be on her motorbike) and at that point she found a large pothole and a
>>> wheel trim flew off into the undergrowth. I recovered the trim then
>>> explained that if 'driving was boring' she wasn't (obviously) paying
>>> it sufficient attention. ;-)
>>
>>Hmm. Off at a tangent here, but if she isn't interested, she should use
>>an
>>alternative means of getting around.
>
> She is and does (her motorbike).
>
>> I really, really don't want an
>>uninterested driver coming off a roundabout, changing the radio again,
>>going
>>straight into me...
>
> No (quite right too) and she (generally) knows when she really
> shouldn't be fiddling with the radio and is actually a pretty good
> driver (in comparison with a lot of what you see on the road
> especially), but what she is saying is she doesn't actually enjoy the
> driving experience (nor do I for that matter) and especially in
> comparison with being on a motorbike (even in the rain / cold
> <shrug>). Similarly (and IMHO) my Wife makes for a much better
> motorcyclist (XV 750 Virago) than she does as a car driver. It's all
> about having better visibility, being more aware of your surroundings
> and knowing you are at a greater risk (if you don't stay focused) of
> landing on the tarmac than you are in a metal box.
Yes absolutely. This is why I believe if the multiple airbags in my car
were replaced with six inch spikes, I'd be far more courteous to other road
users. ;-)
Mind you, all of the motorcycle riders I know are far more aware of certain
aspects when driving - in particular changes or imperfections in the road
surface. The consequences of a diesel spill on a four wheeled car are far
less than on a two wheeled bike.
> No radios to fiddle
> with or phones to talk on. However, we want her to get her car
> licence so it can be another line on her CV and so that she can be
> more self sufficient (and she will be doing her test when she get's
> back from hols). FWIW she's driven about 700 miles with me so far (and
> only had a couple of formal lessons in-between) and I rarely need to
> say much re her driving these days. Anytime we have some driving type
> chores to do I get her to drive. Mostly she's willing. ;-)
>>
>
>>> Hehe. On that subject I was thinking of designing a sleep aid to help
>>> me drown out my tinnitus (possibly why I'm touchy around noise / music
>>> etc), especially when I'm trying to get to sleep. It would be
>>> something like a white noise generator with an adjustable starting
>>> volume, an adjustable ramp-town period and a final volume (which
>>> couldn't be 'off'). If I wake up I can hit the 'snooze' button that
>>> starts the process again but from a third adjustable volume and
>>> shorter ramp period. Is there an iPhone 'app for that'?
>>
>>You know, if you asked a friendly developer, I'll wager they'll be able to
>>knock something up like this very, very quickly.
>
> But would that mean I'd have to buy an iThingy?
Well, yes.
>> Call it a fancy name like
>>iUniverse Noise, as white noise is reputed to be from the Big Bang, and
>>you
>>could be on to a winner.
>
> I think I'd make a point of NOT calling it an 'i' anything, just out
> of principal (what a load of bollocks all that is).
Heh. Branding.
>>Maybe. If I'm writing, I'm writing and since I'm writing just text with
>>no
>>graphics or diagrams, I can write on anything that handles some version of
>>Microsoft Word, for all of my computers to be compatible. The E71 and
>>keyboard work best on the train because of their small size. The notebook
>>is usually a good compromise almost everywhere else.
>
> Ok.
>>
>
>>>>My E71 has this kind of support with the help of some third party
>>>>applications.
>>>
>>> Want to buy my Pirelli LP-D10 then? ;-)
>>
>>A WiFi tyre?
>
> No, but another 'good idea' purchase that sits in a draw. Sipgate is
> ok but not as cheap and easy in most cases as 18185 on our BT phone.
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:50:33 +0100, "DervMan" <thedervman@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>Some of the missing features are overblown.
>>
>> To us maybe but not if you were using them all the time?
>
>Then the device isn't "fit for purpose" and anybody with half a brain would
>check on this first.
They did and didn't buy.
>
>MMS is a great example. The reason why it wasn't included until very
>recently seems to be a combination of the fact that the American networks
>didn't support it and, if one can email, there is not all that much point in
>sending a lower quality picture that is less accessible.
Ok ...
>
>In my own circle of friends, those people who sent a lot of MMS images
>simply reverted to sending pictures via email. To everybody else in the
>group who happened to already have email-capable handsets.
And those who don't? My point is that I'm sure that emailing is better
than MMS'ing but why not include MMS as_well? It can't be difficult?
>
>One of the iPhone's greatest weaknesses and a dealbreaker for me is that it
>cannot handle a Bluetooth keyboard driver. Fortunately, I checked before
>even considering the device.
As would all sensible people, but it isn't always sensible people who
buy stuff is it. Now, whilst I agree they don't have a leg to stand on
if a device doesn't have the features they need but you might accept
their surprise when something they expected should / would be on there
isn't? Like, If I told you about this new all singing all dancing
fully programmable touch screen and expensive phone that had just
appeared on the market would you honestly *expect* it to have the
particular limitations it had / has?
>
>Because the Limey networks are set up to charge pikey Limeys lots of money
>to send poor quality images? Who knows.
Well indeed. But the 'poor quality' is subjective, as is the cost. ie,
If you wanted to get a picture of a house back to the paper to put in
the for sale section, neither of those points might be relevant.
>
>>> Not all that big a
>>>deal. Copy and paste - very annoying.
>>
>> Really? Now I would have thought that would be handy. I always try to
>> use copy/paste because my dyslexia means there is hardly ever a chance
>> I'd ever get any field correct if I relied on my memory.
>
>You missed my point. I said that missing MMS wasn't that big a deal, but
>copy and paste is. That wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but would annoy
>me immensely.
I think I understood and commented on it? (copy and paste). Ok, what
would be annoying about it to you?
>
>> It can play an audio book while playing a simple game and that's about
>> all I can cope with at once. ;-)
>
>It's a simpler device with less functionality, though.
Like me. ;-(
> What if you wanted
>to download a large file and continue working on a document, then check up
>on where your lunch date was via Google Latitude? This can't be done this
>side of jailbreaking the iPhone and that's a real shame.
I guess, if it *could do it* just by some change of code. Like not
supporting MMS. ;-)
>
>> I've also had Psion (Organizer / II) Palm Pilot / Series III etc but
>> never had need to use them for anything other than toys.
>
>Toys, eh? Each to his or her own.
Yes toys because I never used them for anything important and life
would carry on (for me) pretty well as normal.
> My diary, todo and contacts reside in
>the PDA aspect of whatever device I'm using.
See, in all my life I've never had or been formally diaryed. Working
as an electronics technician for BT in a Datel workshop meant a 9-5.
For Kodak it was the same and was given my starting job list by phone
each morning. Working as a Datacomms Co Support Eng I was dispatched
by my boss often moment by moment. As an IT trainer I did a 9-5 at the
same location in the City. Most other stuff was held in my head or on
Post_it_notes etc.
> Integrated message management
>is a very sweet toy. Rather than enter in a bunch of numbers into a new
>'phone I can synchronise the device. Something I used to do with various
>handsets and PalmOS devices is to Bluetooth send the number to the handset,
>which it then called, and punted the call to the Bluetooth headset.
Ok .. (I used to synch my Palm Pilot a bit but rarely took it out with
me. Same with this T|X.
> This
>meant that I could simply leave the mobile in my bag, pocket, whatever.
I have a BT hands-free thing for the car. Used it about 5 times so far
(in 2 years).
> The
>PDA also handled email again wirelessly. I barely used the handset, in
>terms of touching it, but it handled lots of calls and data...
Understood and I'm sure it must be a pain (when it doesn't work) and a
boon when it does, for yer fast moving business person or socialite
anyway. I'm not sure what proportion of the general phone using public
that applies to though?
>
>> In England! ;-)
>
>Yeah, they work. Better in California though.
(I know, I take one when we go cycle / motorcycle camping) ;-)
>
>> It could be a deal breaker though. Imagine you were on a field
>> assignment and your built-in battery went flat?
>
>That's where I have to make other compromises, such as buying a charger
>lead, or sometimes just making sure the device is fully charged before
>leaving that morning.
So we aren't carrying 'one device' then are we? The point is something
that could be considered that important (like a mobile telephone or
GPS) must (IMHO) be very good at doing those things, in real world
situations. So, a phone must have very good reception and a long life
battery (or it may not be there when you need it most). Similar with a
GPS that by nature of is receiver is often out in the elements so
therefore must be at least 'very weatherproof'. For me the iPhone (or
many other smart phones etc) wouldn't make the mark. For going
somewhere for the day in the car (on charge) or use in and around yer
house / work then it might also be useable.
>
<snip>
>Personal choice and all that. For me the current "sweet spot" is a hardware
>front-mounted QWERTY keyboard but with the ability to connect with a
>wireless keyboard. I can't write quickly on it but I can use the device one
>handed, other people can input data if they need to. I have really
>struggled with slider-type keyboards, as they are very hard to use one
>handed and quite often, absolutely no quicker then the smaller,
>front-mounted keyboard anyway.
Ok. I only type with one finger and thumb (space bar) anyway, even on
a real keyboard, always have.
>
>> It would be for me. Entering data on a PDA and 'looking' at that small
>> screen ... ? ;-(
>
>I imagine a few more years of this and I'll be in the same boat...
Seriously though, the whole world changes when yer eyesight goes. I
used to be able to make out the smallest detail, solder the smallest
things but now I need glasses on just to see the 'thing'!
>
>> No reason why they should these days though eh?
>
>The size of the lens as one. By camera, I mean... drum roll... a 35mm SLR.
>Proper mechanical camera, type thing.
Wahoo. Can you still get film for them? <ducks>
Funny. I worked for Kodak for a year and Dad was a semi-pro
photographer yet I probably took no more that 10 rolls of film. I did
however get into the Digital scene pretty quickly (with my Fuji DX5)
and never touched a film camera again. Why? Because I was never taking
what you might call 'photographs', I was taking reference /
engineering / remember_that type shots, where quality was rarely an
issue (however the DX5,7,10, F420 were/are all pretty good). What was
important was to be able to store them electronically (no boxes or
albums full of en prints everywhere), access them quickly and transmit
them electronically (oh, and even print one off now an again).
>
>>>If I want to take a picture... I use a proper camera.
>>
>> And that's kept where?
>
>Where it's needed, which isn't often; by the time I've lugged the lens,
>tripods, films, so on and so forth, it has its own dedicated bag.
Exactly. However a 'compact camera' could be grabbed and stuck in yer
bag / glove compartment / pocket easily AND still provide a good photo
when needed. When daughter recently had her Fuji F31fd driven over by
the truck at work she asked me to pick her up a 'crap camera' as a
replacement. I didn't, I picked up a Fuji Z20fd because she's quite a
good photographer and anything less wouldn't do her justice. Her
(bigger) S7000 hasn't left her room for months.
>
>Cameraphones are for messing about.
Yup.
>
>>> It's becoming a decent gaming platform.
>>
>> For me there is only one decent gaming platform and that's the right
>> PC. I have only ever really been interested in FPS (especially MP) and
>> don't have a console or hand held as they would never match the
>> flexibility of the PC (for_my_specific_needs). ie, a game *like* the
>> one I want to play isn't a solution.
>
>And this isn't portable...
Indeed not, in the same way a portable DVD player isn't the cinema.
Question though, when would you need a portable game (assuming you
aren't 12 that is)? ;-)
>
>> I wouldn't because I wouldn't buy something that was knowingly
>> deficient at the outset. Like I wouldn't buy a WiFi device that only
>> supported WEP. ie, I would only consider an iPhone when it was able to
>> do all I expected of my phone (like send MMS and record video etc. Not
>> *my* phone you understand, say my daughters phone, I have no need for
>> a camera or MMS .. it's a 'phone'). ;-)
>
>Heh. Mine is a connected organiser.
I don't need 'organising' (although the Mrs may say different).
>
>>>I had to upgrade at the end of last year because work moved to an Exchange
>>>2007 server, which wasn't compatible with any PalmOS application I could
>>>find. :-( Otherwise I would still be using the Treo 680.
>>
>> That's what I mean. And if you knew that you needed that feature that
>> would instantly preclude the Treo form your shopping list.
>
>Yeah and it did.
I know, you said. ;-)
<snip>
>That required going
>through the due diligence again to find a suitable handset.
Yep, and that I guess is nearly unavoidable, long term anyway. Look at
this phone package I tried to sort for daughter in Bulgaria. Got
unlocked phone, Freedom / Passport thing, checked with Voda themselves
that that combo would work in that country and what happens, it
doesn't actually work as a phone (luckily we now have a 'workaround').
>
>> Until as my Dad has found now the CD play has broken and he has to
>> dump the lot.
>
>That's true of lots of things, though - it's cheaper to replace than to
>repair.
And you don't always lose everything if you use separates. If my GPS
dies I get another one and in the meantime I can still use my phone.
>
>The E50 is a SymbianOS S60 handset, which is just about as capable as the
>later handsets, but a candybar device with a numeric keypad.
Oh, thanks. Shame I can't see the display properly ... ;-(
>
<snip>
>>, being more aware of your surroundings
>> and knowing you are at a greater risk (if you don't stay focused) of
>> landing on the tarmac than you are in a metal box.
>
>Yes absolutely. This is why I believe if the multiple airbags in my car
>were replaced with six inch spikes, I'd be far more courteous to other road
>users. ;-)
Oh yes. Didn't they note that point though, as things became safer the
number of mishaps went up?
>
>Mind you, all of the motorcycle riders I know are far more aware of certain
>aspects when driving - in particular changes or imperfections in the road
>surface. The consequences of a diesel spill on a four wheeled car are far
>less than on a two wheeled bike.
Absolutely and also a patch of leaves, a few stones, bit of wood, the
classic man_hole_cover or even a crisp packet can spoil yer day if you
aren't diligent.
>
>> But would that mean I'd have to buy an iThingy?
>
>Well, yes.
Hmm ...
>
>> I think I'd make a point of NOT calling it an 'i' anything, just out
>> of principal (what a load of bollocks all that is).
>
>Heh. Branding.
I guess it all makes the world go round <sigh>. I must be the
marketing mans worst nightmare. I rarely buy and generally have little
respect / loyalty for any 'brands', generally choosing whatever
product serves my needs best at the time. Why would one spend £50 on a
shirt that has someone else's name across the back (unless Beckham is
a more common name than I imagined) when a plain one is a fiver?
>
On Sun, 9 Aug 2009 08:05:38 +0100, "DervMan" <thedervman@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> 4) "Hello, I'm a Mac and I'm not cool" - The Microsoft 'laptop hunter'
>> adverts seem to have tried to brainwash people into thinking they need
>> to be cool to own an Apple device, especially because of their "I'm
>> not cool enough to be a Mac' quotes in their adverts.
>
>It isn't helped by some of the mouth-foaming Mac-lovers and their opinion
>that anything with Windows requires constant maintenance and is difficult to
>use, whereas anything with a Mac badge it pretty much perfect right out of
>the box. See below. :-p
I've used, supported and developed for Windows for years and have lost
count of the times (and the hours and hours and hours) I've spent at
the homes of friends and colleagues who are having computer problems.
Some of them are corrupt files (which can happen with anything) but
most of the issues are due to spyware and viruses. I've had this
current MacBook Pro since February and installed a virus checker on it
last week and did a full scan for viruses, spyware, etc. and what did
it find? NOTHING. Not one virus, not one piece of malware or spyware
and it's been used 'unprotected' on the internet going to all sorts of
sites and it hasn't got so much as a cold. It's also crashed, erm,
zero times since February but I do reboot it once a month, not that it
slows down between startups. The joys of unix based operating
systems. In order of preference I prefer machines running OSX, Linux
(probably Ubuntu for end-users) and then I guess at the bottom would
be Windows XP Pro SP3.
>>>However, whilst I respect
>>>them for coming into the market with their own 'thang' they could well
>>>have done even better had they just looked at what could be a deal
>>>breaker (before they even tried one) and ensure they were there at the
>>>beginning. Only someone happy with what bits were on there (and liked
>>>the product on the whole) would spend that sort of cash on that sort
>>>of contract with such restrictions on such a (to them) limited device.
>>
>> The original iPhone cost quite a lot and one could just walk into
>> their local O2 or CPW store, hand over cash and walk out without ever
>> signing up to a contract. The enforced contract (like pretty much
>> every phone on the market which isn't PAYG these days) only came in
>> with the introduction of the iPhone 3G as Apple permitted handset
>> subsidy by the networks.
>>
>> Apple like to do things properly and make things easy to use.
>
>Yes. And it really isn't rocket science either. To get an Apple notebook
>to connect to a wireless network you just... well... tell it to connect.
>Supply passwords if necessary. Drink tea.
>
>Not always the case with a Windows machine. And Linux, heh.
Many of the problems I've had with setting up WiFi networks for
friends and colleagues have been due to 3rd party software which runs
the wireless configuration tools. My company laptop has some awful
wireless tool which doesn't let Windows configure it for itself and
it's absolutely ****. The O2 Wireless dongle's Windows software is
awful too, but thankfully in OSX the dongle is supported natively and
I can connect to teh intertubes without having to do anything 3rd
party.
>> How
>> many touch screen phones are marketed as an 'iPhone beater' and have
>> sales reps saying 'it does this, just like an iPhone'
>
>Yesterday my wife and I went into O2 to look at the Nokia 5800. It took
>almost eight lines before the chap tried to sell us the iPhone. "No, we
>know about the iPhone, we want to see the Nokia 5800."
One imagines that the Nokia 5800 generally brings in less than £30 a
month so they want to sell something which brings more cash through
the tills.
>>>This is still happening today ... many many folk are holding off,
>>>sticking with their potentially inferior phones because the iPhone
>>>*still* doesn't do X or Y. Many of these are self confessed Mac fans
>>>and yet the pull is still not sufficient?
>>
>> What features does the iPhone lack at the moment. Bluetooth file
>> transfer?
>
>Multitasking and proper Bluetooth support, specifically the keyboard driver.
>
>Multitasking isn't such a big deal until we consider how powerful and
>flexible the iPhone is in conjunction with the number of applications. I'm
>a big fan of PalmOS and this operating system didn't multitask (except it
>did, sort of, for music and one excellent email application) and in some
>respects the iPhone feels a bit like a spiritual successor to PalmOS.
I've read a few reviews of the Palm Pre which obviously supports
multi-tasking as part of its OS which I think is WebOS? The battery
life is *awful* and one can't seem to shut down certain tools which
aren't required. One would hope that Palm improve the battery life by
doing something constructive with the OS, which I assume is on v1 so
is a good starting point.
>As for the keyboard driver, a great way (heh) to experience some mouth
>frothy Mac fans is to suggest that Apple pull their finger out and allow or
>write a Bluetooth keyboard driver. With that big screen and a landscape
>mode, the iPhone would be *perfect* as a writers' tool. Tie it in with some
>multitasking and *that* browser and one could have a near-perfect research
>and writing instrument. But... noooooo. Anyway, some iPhone fans get all
>rather upset when you suggest a physical keyboard would improve matters. As
>I am want to suggest, I don't care if they think it would ruin the
>asthetics, *I* want a physical keyboard...
While the on-screen keyboard is rather spiffing (and now works as
landscape in all of Apple's apps) if one was writing an article or a
large document it really wouldn't be good enough, much like a laptop
keyboard isn't as useful as a full 102-key keyboard for many tasks. On
my old Palm m105 (not sure of the exact model, but ran on 2xAAA
batteries and lasted forever - I mainly used it as an ebook reader)
used to have some kind of keyboard which plugged into the dock
connector which made it more usable, even though the Palm Graffiti
input method was okay for short messages.
Looks like someone has already got the Apple Bluetooth keyboard
working with an iPhone 3G in February, although this would be for
Jailbroken iPhones (much like bluetooth file transfer works for
jailbroken iPhones)
iPhone OS 3.0 has given more possibilites for the universal dock
connector and Apple did a demo at the WWDC of various devices being
plugged into the dock such as blood glucose monitors for those with
diabetes, etc. so I don't see why someone developing a keyboard to
stick in there (or a USB keyboard to Universal Dock Connector
attachment) and then throw a Word Processor app in the AppStore to go
with it. The iPhone SDK lets apps communicate with other apps like
the email app or even set up shared storage areas so that when on a
WiFi network one can share it as a file server so getting such
documents off of the iPhone/iPod Touch wouldn't be an issue.
<considers opening Xcode and writing an app to make use of a universal
dock/USB adaptor and then flogging it in the AppStore for £4.99...>
>> Looks like O2 UK may be losing their iPhone 3G exclusivity to T-Mobile
>> and Orange next year so this will open up the UK market to more
>> competition which can only be a good thing when it comes to tariff
>> prices.
>
>They already have. If you are a big spender with T-Mobile and threaten to
>leave, they have up to 150 a week to give away to customers...
Naa, T-Mobile have 50 a week to flog but the company have bought these
iPhone 3G's on the open market in Europe which come out of the box
unlocked. Each retentions agent has 3 a week they can give away for
customers paying >£75 or more. T-Mobile are officially supporting the
iPhone (but no visual voicemail, obviously) but are not official
suppliers and are essentially reselling stock bought retail (not
wholesale)
>I'm not planning on using iTunes with Charlie's iPhone.
What are you thinking of using instead?
>>>> 90% customer satisfaction -- that's off the
>>>>charts. What products today have that? 98% are browsing -- mobile
>>>>browsing has gone from nothing to 98% with the iPhone. 94% are using
>>>>email, 90% are using SMS -- 80% are using 10 or more features."
>>>
>>>Of course, you can't appreciate something when it doesn't exist. It's
>>>not always the best that wins in the end though is it? Take Windows,
>>>Google, Amazon, VHS, are they really the best or have they just been
>>>lucky (all be that through clever marketing / or promotions etc).
>>
>> Windows: Mac use is increasing greatly as people start to understand
>> that it's more reliable and secure than Windows.
>
>You forgot the missing bit, "for numpty users."
I'm far from a numpty but prefer th power, flexibility, security and
ease of use the Leopard gives me. The only Windows app I use is Forté
Agent as my newsreader, which runs through CrossOver (which appears to
be WINE based)
>>>>and the alarm in
>>>>my alarm clock isn't much good during a power cut.
>>>
>>>And that happens how often?
>>
>> A couple of times a year down here in the sticks
>>
>>>>A 7" screen is a bit cumbersome to fit in a pocket.
>>>
>>>But it's much easier to use than a 3" one (no matter what gimmicks you
>>>employ on the smaller screen).
>>
>> I'd rather have a 3" screen than no screen.
>
>I'm also not convinced that it's easier. That's a personal decision.
Yes, try having a ciggy in one hand and a 7" tablet computer the other
and actually typing anything. It works with an iPhone. Oh, and then
add some rain.
>>>> one selected WiFi and it
>>>>would negotiate then bring up the usually malformatted website up
>>>>after a few errors.
>>>
>>>Yup, that's the wrong tool for the job. You want a proper computer in
>>>there. ;-)
>>
>> Or just a proper web browser.
>
>Or a designed-for-mobile browser...
I got fed up of those on Symbian based devices like the E61 and N95,
big screen browsers, but rubbish rendering and little site support. On
the iPhone I can view the mobile BBC News website or the proper BBC
News website and even do my banking online which doesn't generally
work on inferior browsers
--
-- Nick ICQ: 9235201 EMAIL & MSN: nickmooney@spamcop.net
-- Triumph Tiger 955i -- http://www.bgn.me.uk -- Touch -
-- LOTR#4 SKOGA#8 DS#7 BOTAFOT#159 BOTM#2 FBOTY#06 PM#11
iphone - disappointed 
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