Is iPhone unlocking ethical ; Battery replacement after One year

Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
them? (legally? ethically?)

Also, if I use Vodafone I can use it happily for 12 months. When I
need battery to replacement what will Apple say? Will they refuse to
do it because I have broken the warranty by unlocking it? Surely they
can tell when I take it to the Genius Bar.

I live in England.
Thx.

On 2008-03-03 14:47:27 +0000, London.Embankment@googlemail.com said:

> Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> them? (legally? ethically?)

Apple aren't relying on revenue share, they're just being greedy and
capitalising on consumers' appetite for the product. I sincerely doubt
they make a loss on the sale of the handset, if they did, I'd imagine
they'd make more of an effort against unlocking, and probably wouldn't
let you leave the store without activating.

As for the ethical side of it, even if Apple did make a loss on the
handset sale, it's their decision to let you walk out of the shop with
the phone without activating it. Your obligation to Apple ends when the
sale completes. Once you've bought the phone, it's your property, and
you can do whatever you want with it, activate it, unlock it, throw it
under a bus, it's up to you.

> Also, if I use Vodafone I can use it happily for 12 months. When I
> need battery to replacement what will Apple say? Will they refuse to
> do it because I have broken the warranty by unlocking it? Surely they
> can tell when I take it to the Genius Bar.

I doubt they'll care; you're paying for the battery replacement, not
looking to do it under warranty or anything. If you're concerned, just
stick a Pay as You Go O2 SIM in there before taking it in.

On 2008-03-03 15:28:11 +0000, Fry <me@privacy.net> said:

> Apple aren't relying on revenue share, they're just being greedy and
> capitalising on consumers' appetite for the product. I sincerely doubt
> they make a loss on the sale of the handset, if they did, I'd imagine
> they'd make more of an effort against unlocking, and probably wouldn't
> let you leave the store without activating.

Quite, they may be cashing in on possible additional revenue from
network fees but there is no way they are selling the iPhone at a loss.

>> Also, if I use Vodafone I can use it happily for 12 months. When I
>> need battery to replacement what will Apple say? Will they refuse to
>> do it because I have broken the warranty by unlocking it? Surely they
>> can tell when I take it to the Genius Bar.

Just restore it back to out of the box standard and they will never
know. Once battery is replaced, return home and unlock again.

I'm running mine on T-Mobile because we only recently abandoned O2
after some appaling account managment by them, nothing would persuade
us to return at the moment.

--
Darren Griffin
PocketGPSWorld - www.PocketGPSWorld.com
The Premier GPS Resource for News, Reviews and Forums

<London.Embankment@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> them? (legally? ethically?)

What has ethics got to do with it?

Jan

In article <1id8t67.1k36z801urxqsoN@de-ster.xs4all.nl>,
J. J. Lodder <jjlxa31@xs4all.nl> wrote:

>> Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
>> them? (legally? ethically?)

>What has ethics got to do with it?

You're feeding the troll.

-- Richard
--
:wq

> Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> them? (legally? ethically?)

I like to think of it this way:

Given the amount of "waste" hardware (such as routers for computers)
that are locked to a specific provider, how unethical is it for them
to continue doing so given the amount of unnecessary waste it will
eventually result in.

<London.Embankment@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:2c44198c-dc67-41bb-a926-be1a81052e04@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> them? (legally? ethically?)

What they do with the network is their business.

They sold you the phone, you paid good money for it, and it is your
property. As long as you don't tamper with the IMEI (specific offence) then
there is not a lot Apple can do, and as regards ethics it is Apple* who need
a lesson in that so **** 'em.


>
> Also, if I use Vodafone I can use it happily for 12 months. When I
> need battery to replacement what will Apple say? Will they refuse to
> do it because I have broken the warranty by unlocking it? Surely they
> can tell when I take it to the Genius Bar.

Whover unlocked it can surely change the battery, but of course it is
another part of the scam to get you to pay loads of money to Apple.

>
> I live in England.
> Thx.
>

3 do naughty things too (like gluing in SIMs), but at least they have a 3G
network to support.




* late 1970's Apple Corp (the Beatles) sue Apple Inc for trading on their
name. At the time this looked feasible because the hobby PC company was
still quite small and the Beatles were still selling loads of records.
Settled in that Apple Inc. agree not to operate in the music market.

Early 90's. by now Apple Inc is much bigger, but gets sued again for
breaching the earlier agreement. IIRC Apple Inc paid damages and definitely
again agreed not to operate in the music market.

Recently. Apple Inc. starts selling IPods and sets up iTunes music sales
operation and gets sued yet again by Apple Corp. By this time two Beatles
are dead and Apple Inc. is now much bigger than Apple Corp, so in the end
they cut a deal rather than slog it out up to the House of Lords.

so ask yourself - what is Apple Inc's word worth?

On Mar 3, 7:35*pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
> <London.Embankm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> > them? (legally? ethically?)
>
> What has ethics got to do with it?
>
> Jan

Apple have invested vast sums of money in R&D. In many ways, this is
similar to stealing.

On Mar 3, 2:47 pm, London.Embankm...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> them? (legally? ethically?)
>
> Also, if I use Vodafone I can use it happily for 12 months. When I
> need battery to replacement what will Apple say? Will they refuse to
> do it because I have broken the warranty by unlocking it? Surely they
> can tell when I take it to the Genius Bar.
>
> I live in England.
> Thx.

What you do with your property that you paid money for is your
business, not the manufacturer's. They can withdraw warranty support
if you take it apart or modify it of course and that's fair enough but
if you're prepared to live with that then taking your iPhone apart or
jailbreaking it is your right.

On Mar 4, 10:16 am, London.Embankm...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
>
> > <London.Embankm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> > > them? (legally? ethically?)
>
> > What has ethics got to do with it?
>
> > Jan
>
> Apple have invested vast sums of money in R&D. In many ways, this is
> similar to stealing.

I feel to see how. Apple get your money when you pay for the device.

London.Embankment@googlemail.com wrote:

> On Mar 3, 7:35Â*pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
>> <London.Embankm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> > Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
>> > them? (legally? ethically?)
>>
>> What has ethics got to do with it?
>>
>> Jan
>
> Apple have invested vast sums of money in R&D.

TROLL alert!

This is x-posted to a Mac user forum with the intention to start a flamewar.

> In many ways, this is
> similar to stealing.

In many ways you are similar to a troll.

--
Nigel Wade,

<London.Embankment@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:10b36a51-46b5-494b-82b5-81627e6fd502@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
> <London.Embankm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it wrong to deprive
> > them? (legally? ethically?)
>
> What has ethics got to do with it?
>
> Jan

Apple have invested vast sums of money in R&D. In many ways, this is
similar to stealing.

Really - why is the phone so behind technically then?

For instance the last handheld phone I had where you couldn't change the
batteries I bought in 1986 and it [really] is in the Science and Industry
Museum here in Manchester...

On 2008-03-04 14:35:05 +0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
<nospamclayton@btinternet.com> said:

> For instance the last handheld phone I had where you couldn't change the
> batteries I bought in 1986 and it [really] is in the Science and Industry
> Museum here in Manchester...

Much has been made of this lack of a user replacable battery. But of
all the phones I have owned I have never replaced the battery in any of
them. The only time I have ever gone near the battery is to force a
restart.

--
Darren Griffin
PocketGPSWorld - www.PocketGPSWorld.com
The Premier GPS Resource for News, Reviews and Forums

In message 2008030415102727544-darren@pocketgpsworldcom,
Darren Griffin - PocketGPSWorld.Com <darren@pocketgpsworld.com> Proclaimed
from the tallest tower:

> On 2008-03-04 14:35:05 +0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
> <nospamclayton@btinternet.com> said:
>
>> For instance the last handheld phone I had where you couldn't change
>> the batteries I bought in 1986 and it [really] is in the Science and
>> Industry Museum here in Manchester...
>
> Much has been made of this lack of a user replacable battery. But of
> all the phones I have owned I have never replaced the battery in any
> of them. The only time I have ever gone near the battery is to force
> a restart.

I had a spare battery for my last phone (Nokia 6230). After a few years, the
old one was starting to lose charge a little, but more than that, when I was
away and nowhere near a power socket (camping and festivals) having a spare
charged-up battery that I could swap over too was extremly useful.

Just as a matter of interest, have Apple ever given a reason why the battery
can't be replaced (easily)?

--
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

<London.Embankment@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:10b36a51-46b5-494b-82b5-81627e6fd502@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
: On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
: wrote:
: : <London.Embankm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
: : : Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income. Is it
: : : wrong to deprive them? (legally? ethically?)
: :
: : What has ethics got to do with it?
: :
: : Jan
:
: Apple have invested vast sums of money in R&D. In many
: ways, this is similar to stealing.

Vast sums of *whose* money..? (Think about it...)

Ivor

Darren Griffin - PocketGPSWorld.Com <darren@pocketgpsworld.com> wrote:

> On 2008-03-04 14:35:05 +0000, "R. Mark Clayton"
> <nospamclayton@btinternet.com> said:
>
> > For instance the last handheld phone I had where you couldn't change the
> > batteries I bought in 1986 and it [really] is in the Science and Industry
> > Museum here in Manchester...
>
> Much has been made of this lack of a user replacable battery. But of
> all the phones I have owned I have never replaced the battery in any of
> them. The only time I have ever gone near the battery is to force a
> restart.

Same here. I have had loads of phones and not replaced the battery on
any of them.


--
Woody

www.alienrat.com

> Same here. I have had loads of phones and not replaced the battery on
> any of them.

If you've had loads of phones, perhaps you don't hold on to them long
enough to notice when they're getting knackered (are you a fashion
victim perhaps ?)

I replaced the battery in my good ol' Nokia 5110 after a few years,
but the replacement was never as good as the original was at its' best
- it lasted about another 12 months.

I then moved to (IIRC) a Motorola V600 (which I still use (but hate)),
but the battery for that is becoming a little suspect now too (I have
a spare for it which I swap out regularly).

Given the price of the apple toy, if it isn't at least as durable as
these two, it's not going to be on my shopping list !

Colin Wilson <REMOVEEVERYTHINGBUTnewsgroup@phoenixbbsZEROSPAM.c o.uk>
wrote:

> > Same here. I have had loads of phones and not replaced the battery on
> > any of them.
>
> If you've had loads of phones, perhaps you don't hold on to them long
> enough to notice when they're getting knackered (are you a fashion
> victim perhaps ?)

so I am a fashion victim for having more than a couple of phones? wow.
How many phones am I allowed to have had before I am shallow then?

> I replaced the battery in my good ol' Nokia 5110 after a few years,
> but the replacement was never as good as the original was at its' best
> - it lasted about another 12 months.

I had a 5146 (the one-to-one version) for about 3 years, my wife had one
of the thinner ones for a few. Then i had a 6310i (I also at the same
time had a 5110 for research and an old brick - 2000 someting?) which I
still have (on its original battery).

Then I had a Sony Ericsonn whose number I have blocked out as it was so
bad. Actually I did change the battery on that as the old one blew up.

Then I had a 6830 for a while, then a N73i, then another N73i.

> Given the price of the apple toy, if it isn't at least as durable as
> these two, it's not going to be on my shopping list !

I am sure it is.



--
Woody

www.alienrat.com

Colin Wilson <REMOVEEVERYTHINGBUTnewsgroup@phoenixbbsZEROSPAM.c o.uk>
wrote:

> apple toy

The meme still lives! And there was I, lamenting its passing.

-z-

--
No 3G. Fewer megapixels than an N95. Lame.

<deadmail@burnt.org.uk> wrote in message
news:gjiss356g2iv4nnmn22rf0jr68li3gjg5s@4ax.com
: : "Ivor Jones" <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote in
: : message <635i1eF25gltvU1@mid.individual.net>:
: : : <London.Embankment@googlemail.com> wrote in message
: : :
news:10b36a51-46b5-494b-82b5-81627e6fd502@u72g2000hsf.googlegroups.com
: : : : On Mar 3, 7:35 pm, nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
: : : : Lodder) wrote:
: : : : : <London.Embankm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
: : : : : : Apple are relying on Revenue Share for income.
: : : : : : Is it wrong to deprive them? (legally?
: : : : : : ethically?)
: : : : :
: : : : : What has ethics got to do with it?
: : : : :
: : : : : Jan
: : : :
: : : : Apple have invested vast sums of money in R&D. In
: : : : many ways, this is similar to stealing.
: : :
: : : Vast sums of *whose* money..? (Think about it...)
: :
: : Apple shareholders.

Not those who bought the thing, then. Where did *their* money go..?

Hmm.


Ivor

> > If you've had loads of phones, perhaps you don't hold on to them long
> > enough to notice when they're getting knackered (are you a fashion
> > victim perhaps ?)
> so I am a fashion victim for having more than a couple of phones? wow.
> How many phones am I allowed to have had before I am shallow then?

Given what you say later you're not as bad as some, but how many do
you actually still own / use ? (you mention 7 I think)

When my 5110 was recycled (no, really), I kept the SIM and that went
into the nearest cheap equivalent I could find - a Nokia 1100 - and is
still in use as an emergency backup.

I actually consider my Motorola a mistake - it was bought it as an
"upgraded" replacement with a matching contract for my wife (hers had
keeled over, and it seemed daft getting one camera phone when the 1100
couldn't handle pictures - or colour) - but it works most of the time,
and I have no legitimate reason to get shut of it yet.

A daft question perhaps, but why do you (did you?) have two N73i's ?

I can understand perhaps if one failed under warranty, but other than
that, it's a fairly new phone that shouldn't "need" replacing yet.

Colin Wilson <REMOVEEVERYTHINGBUTnewsgroup@phoenixbbsZEROSPAM.c o.uk>
wrote:

> > > If you've had loads of phones, perhaps you don't hold on to them long
> > > enough to notice when they're getting knackered (are you a fashion
> > > victim perhaps ?)
> > so I am a fashion victim for having more than a couple of phones? wow.
> > How many phones am I allowed to have had before I am shallow then?
>
> Given what you say later you're not as bad as some, but how many do
> you actually still own / use ? (you mention 7 I think)

I thought it was less than 7, but then a couple were for work and one
was my wifes.

I still own the 6310i. the first 5146 was lost in a taxi, the second one
I gave to someone, as was the sony ericson - I think I blank memories of
that one.

> When my 5110 was recycled (no, really), I kept the SIM and that went
> into the nearest cheap equivalent I could find - a Nokia 1100 - and is
> still in use as an emergency backup.

That is what my 6310i is. That and it is such a good phone, they only go
for a few quid on ebay, so I kept it

> A daft question perhaps, but why do you (did you?) have two N73i's ?
>
> I can understand perhaps if one failed under warranty, but other than
> that, it's a fairly new phone that shouldn't "need" replacing yet.

I had a contract on orange - £35 for 200 minutes. I tried upgrading it
but they were unhelpful. So I got a twelve month contract from 3. 750
minutes / £30 (1500 mins for the first 3 months) and £70 for the phone
(it was less on 18 months). When the contract was almost up they phoned
me, offering me another phone and £10/month off the contract. They
offered a SE phone, which I would avoid like the plague because of the
previous one. The only nokia they would give me was another n73 (a black
one instead of a silver). I got that, unlocked the old one for a few
quid, and sold it on ebay for £140 (so effectively the contract was
£10/month). And I like the N73.

--
Woody

www.alienrat.com