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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2011, 09:22 AM
andrew
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Default online record of incoming and outgoing calls

Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing calls
for a cellphone?

AJH

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Sandy
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:22:25 +0100, andrew wrote:
> Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing
> calls for a cellphone?


All of them.

https://www.privacyinternational.org...ar_mobile.html


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:47 PM
Graham.
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls


"Sandy" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:z8Glp.3210$2o1.1924@newsfe18.ams2...
> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:22:25 +0100, andrew wrote:
>> Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing
>> calls for a cellphone?

>
> All of them.
>
> https://www.privacyinternational.org...ar_mobile.html
>


Interesting.
In practice are the networks likely to be forthcoming when such a SAR is made by an individual mobile telephone subscriber?
Are they entitled to charge the applicant an administrative fee?

--
Graham.

%Profound_observation%



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Old 04-02-2011, 08:03 PM
andrew
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

Sandy wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:22:25 +0100, andrew wrote:
>> Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing
>> calls for a cellphone?

>
> All of them.
>
>

https://www.privacyinternational.org...ar_mobile.html


Not quite what I was after. I was after an online version of the callers
list for cellphones on our account.

AJH

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 09:43 AM
Sandy
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 19:47:57 +0100, Graham. wrote:

> In practice are the networks likely to be forthcoming when such a SAR is
> made by an individual mobile telephone subscriber?


If they want to comply with the law, yes.

> Are they entitled to charge the applicant an administrative fee?


Yes.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 09:43 AM
Sandy
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 19:47:57 +0100, Graham. wrote:

> In practice are the networks likely to be forthcoming when such a SAR is
> made by an individual mobile telephone subscriber?


If they want to comply with the law, yes.

> Are they entitled to charge the applicant an administrative fee?


Yes.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 09:49 AM
Sandy
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 21:03:49 +0100, andrew wrote:
> Not quite what I was after. I was after an online version of the callers
> list for cellphones on our account.


So ask them to provide it in electronic format?

Why are you so anal about it receiving the data in a specific way? You
can get the data you need and do what you want with it after then.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 11:18 AM
andrew
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

Sandy wrote:

> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 21:03:49 +0100, andrew wrote:
>> Not quite what I was after. I was after an online version of the callers
>> list for cellphones on our account.

>
> So ask them to provide it in electronic format?


Sandy, thank you for your replies, I realise the companies store this data
and wondered whether there was a contract where one could regularly view it
in electronic format.
>
> Why are you so anal about it receiving the data in a specific way?


Was that simply rhetorical and pejorative?

AJH

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 11:32 AM
Scott
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:47:57 +0100, "Graham." <me@privicy.com> wrote:

>
>"Sandy" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message news:z8Glp.3210$2o1.1924@newsfe18.ams2...
>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:22:25 +0100, andrew wrote:
>>> Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing
>>> calls for a cellphone?

>>
>> All of them.
>>
>> https://www.privacyinternational.org...ar_mobile.html
>>

>
>Interesting.
>In practice are the networks likely to be forthcoming when such a SAR is made by an individual mobile telephone subscriber?
>Are they entitled to charge the applicant an administrative fee?


I think they will respond that any details pertaining to any other
parties (such as telephone numbers) constitute personal data and
cannot be disclosed due to the Data Protection Act.

At best you will get a printout showing calls made or received with
all telephone numbers redacted (blanked out).

Maximum £10 fee AIUI.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 11:57 AM
Brian Watson
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls


"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4dmgp6pbb6dg0t171dvu1sgrkrblg2os0p@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:47:57 +0100, "Graham." <me@privicy.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sandy" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>news:z8Glp.3210$2o1.1924@newsfe18.ams2...
>>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:22:25 +0100, andrew wrote:
>>>> Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing
>>>> calls for a cellphone?
>>>
>>> All of them.
>>>
>>> https://www.privacyinternational.org...ar_mobile.html
>>>

>>
>>Interesting.
>>In practice are the networks likely to be forthcoming when such a SAR is
>>made by an individual mobile telephone subscriber?
>>Are they entitled to charge the applicant an administrative fee?

>
> I think they will respond that any details pertaining to any other
> parties (such as telephone numbers) constitute personal data and
> cannot be disclosed due to the Data Protection Act.


Isn't the rule that anyone who can show "reasonable cause" can access the
data?

--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."
www.imagebus.co.uk/shop



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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 12:09 PM
Scott
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sun, 3 Apr 2011 12:57:22 +0100, "Brian Watson"
<Brian@imagebus.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:4dmgp6pbb6dg0t171dvu1sgrkrblg2os0p@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2011 19:47:57 +0100, "Graham." <me@privicy.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Sandy" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>news:z8Glp.3210$2o1.1924@newsfe18.ams2...
>>>> On Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:22:25 +0100, andrew wrote:
>>>>> Do any of the uk providers provide records of incoming and outgoing
>>>>> calls for a cellphone?
>>>>
>>>> All of them.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.privacyinternational.org...ar_mobile.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting.
>>>In practice are the networks likely to be forthcoming when such a SAR is
>>>made by an individual mobile telephone subscriber?
>>>Are they entitled to charge the applicant an administrative fee?

>>
>> I think they will respond that any details pertaining to any other
>> parties (such as telephone numbers) constitute personal data and
>> cannot be disclosed due to the Data Protection Act.

>
>Isn't the rule that anyone who can show "reasonable cause" can access the
>data?


According to section 7:

7 Right of access to personal data..

(1)Subject to the following provisions of this section and to
[F1sections 8, 9 and 9A], an individual is entitled—.
(a)to be informed by any data controller whether personal data of
which that individual is the data subject are being processed by or on
behalf of that data controller,.
(b)if that is the case, to be given by the data controller a
description of—.
(i)the personal data of which that individual is the data subject,.
(ii)the purposes for which they are being or are to be processed, and.
(iii)the recipients or classes of recipients to whom they are or may
be disclosed,.
(c)to have communicated to him in an intelligible form—.
(i)the information constituting any personal data of which that
individual is the data subject, and.
(ii)any information available to the data controller as to the source
of those data, and.
(d)where the processing by automatic means of personal data of which
that individual is the data subject for the purpose of evaluating
matters relating to him such as, for example, his performance at work,
his creditworthiness, his reliability or his conduct, has constituted
or is likely to constitute the sole basis for any decision
significantly affecting him, to be informed by the data controller of
the logic involved in that decision-taking..
(2)A data controller is not obliged to supply any information under
subsection (1) unless he has received—.
(a)a request in writing, and.
(b)except in prescribed cases, such fee (not exceeding the prescribed
maximum) as he may require..
[F2(3)Where a data controller—.
(a)reasonably requires further information in order to satisfy himself
as to the identity of the person making a request under this section
and to locate the information which that person seeks, and.
(b)has informed him of that requirement,.
the data controller is not obliged to comply with the request unless
he is supplied with that further information.]
(4)Where a data controller cannot comply with the request without
disclosing information relating to another individual who can be
identified from that information, he is not obliged to comply with the
request unless—.
(a)the other individual has consented to the disclosure of the
information to the person making the request, or.
(b)it is reasonable in all the circumstances to comply with the
request without the consent of the other individual..
(5)In subsection (4) the reference to information relating to another
individual includes a reference to information identifying that
individual as the source of the information sought by the request; and
that subsection is not to be construed as excusing a data controller
from communicating so much of the information sought by the request as
can be communicated without disclosing the identity of the other
individual concerned, whether by the omission of names or other
identifying particulars or otherwise..
(6)In determining for the purposes of subsection (4)(b) whether it is
reasonable in all the circumstances to comply with the request without
the consent of the other individual concerned, regard shall be had, in
particular, to—.
(a)any duty of confidentiality owed to the other individual,.
(b)any steps taken by the data controller with a view to seeking the
consent of the other individual,.
(c)whether the other individual is capable of giving consent, and.
(d)any express refusal of consent by the other individual..
(7)An individual making a request under this section may, in such
cases as may be prescribed, specify that his request is limited to
personal data of any prescribed description..
(8)Subject to subsection (4), a data controller shall comply with a
request under this section promptly and in any event before the end of
the prescribed period beginning with the relevant day..
(9)If a court is satisfied on the application of any person who has
made a request under the foregoing provisions of this section that the
data controller in question has failed to comply with the request in
contravention of those provisions, the court may order him to comply
with the request..
(10)In this section—.
“prescribed” means prescribed by the [F3 Secretary of State] by
regulations;
“the prescribed maximum” means such amount as may be prescribed;
“the prescribed period” means forty days or such other period as may
be prescribed;
“the relevant day”, in relation to a request under this section, means
the day on which the data controller receives the request or, if
later, the first day on which the data controller has both the
required fee and the information referred to in subsection (3).
(11)Different amounts or periods may be prescribed under this section
in relation to different cases..
[F4(12)A person is a relevant person for the purposes of subsection
(4)(c) if he—.
(a)is a person referred to in paragraph 4(a) or (b) or paragraph 8(a)
or (b) of Schedule 11;.
(b)is employed by an education authority (within the meaning of
paragraph 6 of Schedule 11) in pursuance of its functions relating to
education and the information relates to him, or he supplied the
information in his capacity as such an employee; or.
(c)is the person making the request.].
[F5(12)A person is a relevant person for the purposes of subsection
(4)(c) if he—.
(a)is a person referred to in paragraph 1(p) or (q) of the Schedule to
the Data Protection (Subject Access Modification) (Social Work) Order
2000; or.
(b)is or has been employed by any person or body referred to in
paragraph 1 of that Schedule in connection with functions which are or
have been exercised in relation to the data consisting of the
information; or.
(c)has provided for reward a service similar to a service provided in
the exercise of any functions specified in paragraph 1(a)(i), (b), (c)
or (d) of that Schedule,.
and the information relates to him or he supplied the information in
his official capacity or, as the case may be, in connection with the
provision of that service.]

CONCLUSION

The information you are entitled to is 'personal data of which that
individual is the data subject'.

Subsection (4) severely constrains release of information relating to
another individual.

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Sandy
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Default Re: online record of incoming and outgoing calls

On Sun, 03 Apr 2011 12:32:30 +0100, Scott wrote:
> At best you will get a printout showing calls made or received with all
> telephone numbers redacted (blanked out).


Mobile providers will interesting data other than phone calls, for
example they store a history of all the cells you have accessed so you
could see a history of where you have been.

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