Orange Samsung mobile delivered with broken seal

I've taken delivery today of a new Orange contract phone, a Samsung
D900 in a Samsung box. The seal has been broken and then taped over
with a clear tape, not marked as tamper proof or bearing any logo.

I've contacted Orange to say I don't want to accept this phone as the
seal is broken and on both occassions (I've rung twice) they've said
the box has been opened at Orange to insert the sim card. (In fact the
first call they said they had to open all the boxes to make sure there
were sim cards in them and then reseal them.)

As there is nothing to say anywhere that the seal has been broken by
Orange, and nothing on the resealing tape to indicate it's been
resealed by Orange I'm still very wary. Am I being over cautious?

This is my first experience or Orange, is their customer service always
so poor? Phone call number 2 said I had already accepted the phone as
I'd signed for it, am I supposed to open the package at the door and do
the inspection before I let the courier go?

Does any other provider have a contract package that includes unlimited
texts, which was the reason for buying Orange?

<janet@jcdesigns.com> wrote in message
news:1158145463.512775.101410@h48g2000cwc.googlegr oups.com...
> I've taken delivery today of a new Orange contract phone, a Samsung
> D900 in a Samsung box. The seal has been broken and then taped over
> with a clear tape, not marked as tamper proof or bearing any logo.
>
> I've contacted Orange to say I don't want to accept this phone as the
> seal is broken and on both occassions (I've rung twice) they've said
> the box has been opened at Orange to insert the sim card. (In fact the
> first call they said they had to open all the boxes to make sure there
> were sim cards in them and then reseal them.)
>
> As there is nothing to say anywhere that the seal has been broken by
> Orange, and nothing on the resealing tape to indicate it's been
> resealed by Orange I'm still very wary. Am I being over cautious?

Yes.

> This is my first experience or Orange, is their customer service always
> so poor?

Yes. Though it wasn't always the case.

> Phone call number 2 said I had already accepted the phone as
> I'd signed for it, am I supposed to open the package at the door and do
> the inspection before I let the courier go?

Yes. Signing for the package was your acceptance of said package. You should
have inspected it before signing.

> Does any other provider have a contract package that includes unlimited
> texts, which was the reason for buying Orange?

You have 14 days to return it to Orange and cancel the contract.

On 2006-09-13 12:04:23 +0100, janet@jcdesigns.com said:

> I've taken delivery today of a new Orange contract phone, a Samsung
> D900 in a Samsung box. The seal has been broken and then taped over
> with a clear tape, not marked as tamper proof or bearing any logo.
>
> I've contacted Orange to say I don't want to accept this phone as the
> seal is broken and on both occassions (I've rung twice) they've said
> the box has been opened at Orange to insert the sim card. (In fact the
> first call they said they had to open all the boxes to make sure there
> were sim cards in them and then reseal them.)
>
> As there is nothing to say anywhere that the seal has been broken by
> Orange, and nothing on the resealing tape to indicate it's been
> resealed by Orange I'm still very wary. Am I being over cautious?

Orange are using the generic version of the Samsung Ultra Editions,
which means that they come direct from Samsung in a nice Samsung box
rather than Orange bunging it in their standard black boxes. As you
were told, Orange need to open the Samsung box to put your SIM in, and
then seal it with their standard clear tape. It's nothing to worry
about.

Chris

"Chris Boyd" <chrisbboyd@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:2006091315201116807-chrisbboyd@NOSPAMgmailcom

[snip]

> Orange are using the generic version of the Samsung Ultra
> Editions, which means that they come direct from Samsung
> in a nice Samsung box rather than Orange bunging it in
> their standard black boxes. As you were told, Orange
> need to open the Samsung box to put your SIM in, and then
> seal it with their standard clear tape. It's nothing to
> worry about.

If this is indeed the case then Orange should include documentation to
confirm that they have resealed the package.

Why do they need to open the box to put the SIM in..? Do they consider
their customers too stupid to do this for themselves..?

I wouldn't accept it.

Ivor

janet@jcdesigns.com wrote:
> I've taken delivery today of a new Orange contract phone, a Samsung
> D900 in a Samsung box. The seal has been broken and then taped over
> with a clear tape, not marked as tamper proof or bearing any logo.
>
> I've contacted Orange to say I don't want to accept this phone as the
> seal is broken and on both occassions (I've rung twice) they've said
> the box has been opened at Orange to insert the sim card. (In fact the
> first call they said they had to open all the boxes to make sure there
> were sim cards in them and then reseal them.)
>
> As there is nothing to say anywhere that the seal has been broken by
> Orange, and nothing on the resealing tape to indicate it's been
> resealed by Orange I'm still very wary. Am I being over cautious?
>
> This is my first experience or Orange, is their customer service always
> so poor? Phone call number 2 said I had already accepted the phone as
> I'd signed for it, am I supposed to open the package at the door and do
> the inspection before I let the courier go?
>
> Does any other provider have a contract package that includes unlimited
> texts, which was the reason for buying Orange?

It's very simple.............if the security seal bears words along the
lines of "do not accept if this seal is not intact" (or a similar
warning) then you shouldn't have signed for it.

Return it within the 14 day grace period.

<noel.wester@webtribe.net> wrote in message
news:1158172444.673063.77930@h48g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com

[snip]

> It's very simple.............if the security seal bears
> words along the lines of "do not accept if this seal is
> not intact" (or a similar warning) then you shouldn't
> have signed for it.
>
> Return it within the 14 day grace period.

I may be wrong but I get the impression that the (sealed or otherwise) box
was inside a jiffy bag or other outer packaging and it is this that was
signed for, the OP would only have found out the inner box had been opened
once they'd signed for the jiffy and opened it (after, of course, the
courier had gone).

Ivor

On 2006-09-13 17:42:31 +0100, "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> said:

> "Chris Boyd" <chrisbboyd@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2006091315201116807-chrisbboyd@NOSPAMgmailcom
>
> [snip]
>
>> Orange are using the generic version of the Samsung Ultra
>> Editions, which means that they come direct from Samsung
>> in a nice Samsung box rather than Orange bunging it in
>> their standard black boxes. As you were told, Orange
>> need to open the Samsung box to put your SIM in, and then
>> seal it with their standard clear tape. It's nothing to
>> worry about.
>
> If this is indeed the case then Orange should include documentation to
> confirm that they have resealed the package.

I agree, or at least use tape saying 'resealed by Orange' or words to
that affect.

>
> Why do they need to open the box to put the SIM in..? Do they consider
> their customers too stupid to do this for themselves..?

Where would you have them put the SIM? Tape it to the outside of the
box? They aren't actually putting the SIM in the handset, just putting
the credit card sized SIM holder in the box.

>
> I wouldn't accept it.

Well, you wouldn't need to anyway, what with your 2 spare 6310i's lying
around ;-)

Chris

"Chris Boyd" <chrisbboyd@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:2006091322582316807-chrisbboyd@NOSPAMgmailcom
> On 2006-09-13 17:42:31 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> said:

[snip]

> > Why do they need to open the box to put the SIM in..?
> > Do they consider their customers too stupid to do this
> > for themselves..?
>
> Where would you have them put the SIM? Tape it to the
> outside of the box? They aren't actually putting the SIM
> in the handset, just putting the credit card sized SIM
> holder in the box.

Assuming the box is enclosed within an outer jiffy bag, they could put it
in that. If not, they could put it in a separate envelope and tape it to
the outside of the box.

> > I wouldn't accept it.
>
> Well, you wouldn't need to anyway, what with your 2 spare
> 6310i's lying around ;-)

Almost. Two in daily use, one spare ;-)

Ivor

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4mr4saF7igtmU1@individual.net...
> <noel.wester@webtribe.net> wrote in message
> news:1158172444.673063.77930@h48g2000cwc.googlegro ups.com
>
> [snip]
>
>> It's very simple.............if the security seal bears
>> words along the lines of "do not accept if this seal is
>> not intact" (or a similar warning) then you shouldn't
>> have signed for it.
>>
>> Return it within the 14 day grace period.
>
> I may be wrong but I get the impression that the (sealed or otherwise) box
> was inside a jiffy bag or other outer packaging and it is this that was
> signed for, the OP would only have found out the inner box had been opened
> once they'd signed for the jiffy and opened it (after, of course, the
> courier had gone).

You don't sign for the packaging but the contents. Nothing to stop you
opening the packaging to check the contents.

"Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
in message news:4508f496$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4mr4saF7igtmU1@individual.net...

[snip]

> > I may be wrong but I get the impression that the
> > (sealed or otherwise) box was inside a jiffy bag or
> > other outer packaging and it is this that was signed
> > for, the OP would only have found out the inner box had
> > been opened once they'd signed for the jiffy and opened
> > it (after, of course, the courier had gone).
>
> You don't sign for the packaging but the contents.
> Nothing to stop you opening the packaging to check the
> contents.

True, but most people don't, do they..?

Ivor

On 13 Sep 2006 04:04:23 -0700, janet@jcdesigns.com wrote:

>I've taken delivery today of a new Orange contract phone, a Samsung
>D900 in a Samsung box. The seal has been broken and then taped over
>with a clear tape, not marked as tamper proof or bearing any logo.
>
>I've contacted Orange to say I don't want to accept this phone as the
>seal is broken and on both occassions (I've rung twice) they've said
>the box has been opened at Orange to insert the sim card. (In fact the
>first call they said they had to open all the boxes to make sure there
>were sim cards in them and then reseal them.)
>
>As there is nothing to say anywhere that the seal has been broken by
>Orange, and nothing on the resealing tape to indicate it's been
>resealed by Orange I'm still very wary. Am I being over cautious?
>
>This is my first experience or Orange, is their customer service always
>so poor? Phone call number 2 said I had already accepted the phone as
>I'd signed for it, am I supposed to open the package at the door and do
>the inspection before I let the courier go?
>
>Does any other provider have a contract package that includes unlimited
>texts, which was the reason for buying Orange?


Jeez of all the things in the world to have a go about, does the thing
work ? was the plastic bags inside open ?

Just use the bloody thing
--

www.ratrodz.co.uk

XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop

obet@jryfutbi.pb.hx [Rot 13 it]

Some people are like slinkys....
no real use but it makes you smile when they fall down stairs!

"BORG" <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news:g9big29os6kgrrsstqiluakd73l2tp4ht2@4ax.com

[snip]

> Jeez of all the things in the world to have a go about,
> does the thing work ? was the plastic bags inside open ?
>
> Just use the bloody thing

So then what do you do when it fails due to something someone else did
before you got it..? Never accept anything other than a factory-sealed
box.

Ivor

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:04:46 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

>"BORG" <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
>news:g9big29os6kgrrsstqiluakd73l2tp4ht2@4ax.com
>
>[snip]
>
>> Jeez of all the things in the world to have a go about,
>> does the thing work ? was the plastic bags inside open ?
>>
>> Just use the bloody thing
>
>So then what do you do when it fails due to something someone else did
>before you got it..? Never accept anything other than a factory-sealed
>box.
>
>Ivor
>

a bit of good old fashioned common sense would work here, was the
thing still it the bags was there a SIM card in the box,
--

www.ratrodz.co.uk

XJ900 Trike ** GS850 Trike
XV1000 TR1 Chop

obet@jryfutbi.pb.hx [Rot 13 it]

Some people are like slinkys....
no real use but it makes you smile when they fall down stairs!

"BORG" <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
news0eig25o6bs2tef7hgmmfhqk74ho3aubsu@4ax.com
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:04:46 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

[snip]

> > So then what do you do when it fails due to something
> > someone else did before you got it..? Never accept
> > anything other than a factory-sealed box.
>
> a bit of good old fashioned common sense would work here,
> was the thing still it the bags was there a SIM card in
> the box,

Common sense doesn't come into it when they refuse to accept it back on
the grounds that *you* broke it, not the delivery man, salesman or
whoever. They'll use any excuse.

Ivor

Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
> in message news:4508f496$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net
>> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:4mr4saF7igtmU1@individual.net...
>
> [snip]
>
>>> I may be wrong but I get the impression that the
>>> (sealed or otherwise) box was inside a jiffy bag or
>>> other outer packaging and it is this that was signed
>>> for, the OP would only have found out the inner box had
>>> been opened once they'd signed for the jiffy and opened
>>> it (after, of course, the courier had gone).
>>
>> You don't sign for the packaging but the contents.
>> Nothing to stop you opening the packaging to check the
>> contents.
>
> True, but most people don't, do they..?

And most delivery companies I`ve had experience with won`t let you open the
parcel until you`ve signed for it - catch 22.

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4msoe9F7op9mU1@individual.net...
> "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
> in message news:4508f496$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net
>> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:4mr4saF7igtmU1@individual.net...
>
> [snip]
>
>> > I may be wrong but I get the impression that the
>> > (sealed or otherwise) box was inside a jiffy bag or
>> > other outer packaging and it is this that was signed
>> > for, the OP would only have found out the inner box had
>> > been opened once they'd signed for the jiffy and opened
>> > it (after, of course, the courier had gone).
>>
>> You don't sign for the packaging but the contents.
>> Nothing to stop you opening the packaging to check the
>> contents.
>
> True, but most people don't, do they..?

Probably not. But those that don't should be fully aware that they have
accepted the package sight unseen.

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4msramF7flf4U1@individual.net...
> "BORG" <Borg@deadspam.com> wrote in message
> news:g9big29os6kgrrsstqiluakd73l2tp4ht2@4ax.com
>
> [snip]
>
>> Jeez of all the things in the world to have a go about,
>> does the thing work ? was the plastic bags inside open ?
>>
>> Just use the bloody thing
>
> So then what do you do when it fails due to something someone else did
> before you got it..? Never accept anything other than a factory-sealed
> box.

If the contents appear to be untouched then keep and use it. If it appears
to have been tampered with then send it back. If it subsequently fails then
send it back under warranty.

To be honest the OP sounds rather parnoid.

janet@jcdesigns.com declared for all the world to hear...
> I've taken delivery today of a new Orange contract phone, a Samsung
> D900 in a Samsung box. The seal has been broken and then taped over
> with a clear tape, not marked as tamper proof or bearing any logo.
>
> I've contacted Orange to say I don't want to accept this phone as the
> seal is broken and on both occassions (I've rung twice) they've said
> the box has been opened at Orange to insert the sim card. (In fact the
> first call they said they had to open all the boxes to make sure there
> were sim cards in them and then reseal them.)
>
> As there is nothing to say anywhere that the seal has been broken by
> Orange, and nothing on the resealing tape to indicate it's been
> resealed by Orange I'm still very wary. Am I being over cautious?

Maybe not, but what you have been told is true. Samsung deliver the
phones to Orange's warehouse in Banbury. There they are opened, a SIM
card and various other bits are inserted and the box is then re-sealed.

> This is my first experience or Orange, is their customer service always
> so poor?

What's poor about it? You asked a question and were given the answer.
--
Regards
Jon

ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
> Why do they need to open the box to put the SIM in..?

Because teleportation only exists in science fiction.

> Do they consider
> their customers too stupid to do this for themselves..?

The SIM is not the only thing that is placed in the box, in any case
it's done to prevent the need for a separate packet which has to be good
news for the environment and also to negate the possibility of SIM and
phone becoming separated.

> I wouldn't accept it.

Best make sure then that you never ever purchase an Orange phone,
because they all get the same treatment.
--
Regards
Jon

ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
> Assuming the box is enclosed within an outer jiffy bag, they could put it
> in that.

In a warehouse environment processing thousands of order per day? Not
practical in the slightest. Far more sensible to have the SIMs in the
box.

--
Regards
Jon

noel.wester@webtribe.net declared for all the world to hear...
> Return it within the 14 day grace period.

What for?
--
Regards
Jon

ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to hear...
> So then what do you do when it fails due to something someone else did
> before you got it..? Never accept anything other than a factory-sealed
> box.

Most of us live in the real world though.
--
Regards
Jon

Borg@deadspam.com declared for all the world to hear...
> Jeez of all the things in the world to have a go about, does the thing
> work ? was the plastic bags inside open ?
>
> Just use the bloody thing

At last, a sensible post.
--
Regards
Jon

Simon Finnigan wrote:
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk> wrote
>> in message news:4508f496$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net
>>> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:4mr4saF7igtmU1@individual.net...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> I may be wrong but I get the impression that the
>>>> (sealed or otherwise) box was inside a jiffy bag or
>>>> other outer packaging and it is this that was signed
>>>> for, the OP would only have found out the inner box had
>>>> been opened once they'd signed for the jiffy and opened
>>>> it (after, of course, the courier had gone).
>>>
>>> You don't sign for the packaging but the contents.
>>> Nothing to stop you opening the packaging to check the
>>> contents.
>>
>> True, but most people don't, do they..?
>
> And most delivery companies I`ve had experience with won`t let you
> open the parcel until you`ve signed for it - catch 22.

I always sign for things and write 'not checked' on the delivery note.

--
Don't say you dont have enough time,
you have the same amount as Einstein,Da vinci, Bill Gates...

"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f73b1f59883779998a36b@text.usenet.plus.n et
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to
> hear...
> > Assuming the box is enclosed within an outer jiffy bag,
> > they could put it in that.
>
> In a warehouse environment processing thousands of order
> per day? Not practical in the slightest. Far more
> sensible to have the SIMs in the box.

So it's easier to (a) open the box (b) put the SIM inside (c) reseal
(badly..!) the box, then still put the whole thing in a jiffy..? Or are
you telling me they don't protect the box against transit damage in this
way..?

Whenever I've had anything delivered by courier (admittedly never a phone,
I prefer to buy them face to face with the seller) then the sealed box has
always been inside an outer protective jiffy bag. I have never had a box
delivered without this.

(Makes mental note never to buy a phone by remote...)

Ivor

"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f73b1b43e721c3f98a36a@text.usenet.plus.n et
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to
> hear...
> > Why do they need to open the box to put the SIM in..?
>
> Because teleportation only exists in science fiction.

That's not what I meant and you know it.

> > Do they consider
> > their customers too stupid to do this for themselves..?
>
> The SIM is not the only thing that is placed in the box,
> in any case it's done to prevent the need for a separate
> packet which has to be good news for the environment and
> also to negate the possibility of SIM and phone becoming
> separated.

So you don't protect the box against transit damage..? Another good reason
never to buy from Orange.

> > I wouldn't accept it.
>
> Best make sure then that you never ever purchase an
> Orange phone, because they all get the same treatment.

I'll never be buying anything from Orange again, you can be sure of that.
And not only for this reason.

Ivor

"Simon Finnigan" <SimonFinnigan@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:4mtb22F7ouhnU1@individual.net
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > "Jack Torrence" <room217[at]overlook.freeserve.co.uk>
> > wrote in message
> > news:4508f496$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net

[snip]

> > > You don't sign for the packaging but the contents.
> > > Nothing to stop you opening the packaging to check the
> > > contents.
> >
> > True, but most people don't, do they..?
>
> And most delivery companies I`ve had experience with
> won`t let you open the parcel until you`ve signed for it
> - catch 22.

Then it goes back. I've never had a problem.

Ivor

"JackieGreen" <jackie.green@pants.blueyonder.co.uk> wrote
in message
news:lDkOg.19229$r61.8605@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk

[snip]

> I always sign for things and write 'not checked' on the
> delivery note.

Then they say "you didn't check it, not our fault if it's damaged/bits
missing/whatever" Catch 22 again.

Ivor

"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f73b2044edcaf5e98a36c@text.usenet.plus.n et
> noel.wester@webtribe.net declared for all the world to
> hear...
> > Return it within the 14 day grace period.
>
> What for?

No idea, too much snipping..!

Ivor

"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f73b244d54ded4898a36d@text.usenet.plus.n et
> ivor@despammed.invalid declared for all the world to
> hear...
> > So then what do you do when it fails due to something
> > someone else did before you got it..? Never accept
> > anything other than a factory-sealed box.
>
> Most of us live in the real world though.

Where not everyone is honest and people do tamper with goods in transit.
Again, examine all goods prior to acceptance if the factory seal shows any
signs of tampering.

If someone won't let you do this, question their motives. If still not
satisfied, refuse the goods.

Ivor