wadefleming@yahoo.com declared for all the world to hear...
> I have a k750i that is out of contract, locked to Orange. Will they
> charge me for the code and how much?
"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.20383e4dfe8bfdd298a72e@text.usenet.plus.n et...
> wadefleming@yahoo.com declared for all the world to hear...
>> I have a k750i that is out of contract, locked to Orange. Will they
>> charge me for the code and how much?
>
> Yes, £20.
When is this kind of practice going to be ruled illegal? If your contract
has finished you've paid your dues and any subsidies towards the cost of the
phone and the company is effectively holding something (which is no longer
theirs) to ransom by demanding money to completely release the phone.
I know Virgin have a sensible policy. Isn't it about time the rest came
into line?
(Sorry, just having a bit of a rant at a pet peeve of mine)
timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to hear...
> >> I have a k750i that is out of contract, locked to Orange. Will they
> >> charge me for the code and how much?
> > Yes, £20.
> When is this kind of practice going to be ruled illegal?
Probably when it actually becomes illegal.
> If your contract has finished you've paid your dues and any subsidies towards the cost of the
> phone and the company is effectively holding something (which is no longer
> theirs) to ransom by demanding money to completely release the phone.
It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't have to
sign up.
--
Regards
Jon
Jon wrote:
> timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to
> hear...
>>>> I have a k750i that is out of contract, locked to Orange. Will they
>>>> charge me for the code and how much?
>
>>> Yes, £20.
>
>> When is this kind of practice going to be ruled illegal?
>
> Probably when it actually becomes illegal.
>
>> If your contract has finished you've paid your dues and any
>> subsidies towards the cost of the phone and the company is
>> effectively holding something (which is no longer
>> theirs) to ransom by demanding money to completely release the phone.
>
> It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't have
> to
> sign up.
You work for Orange then?
It's iniquitous and while it may not be illegal it should be.
Not all networks are equal for coverage and if you can't get Virgin where
you want it, you have no choice but to agree to conditions forced upon you
by the other companies. Hardly a free choice.
"Tim Downie" <timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:539p6eF1s6kfvU1@mid.individual.net...
> Jon wrote:
>> timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to
>> hear...
>>>>> I have a k750i that is out of contract, locked to Orange. Will
>>>>> they
>>>>> charge me for the code and how much?
>>
>>>> Yes, £20.
>>
>>> When is this kind of practice going to be ruled illegal?
>>
>> Probably when it actually becomes illegal.
>>
>>> If your contract has finished you've paid your dues and any
>>> subsidies towards the cost of the phone and the company is
>>> effectively holding something (which is no longer
>>> theirs) to ransom by demanding money to completely release the
>>> phone.
>>
>> It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't
>> have
>> to
>> sign up.
>
> You work for Orange then?
>
> It's iniquitous and while it may not be illegal it should be.
>
> Not all networks are equal for coverage and if you can't get Virgin
> where you want it, you have no choice but to agree to conditions
> forced upon you by the other companies. Hardly a free choice.
>
>
Eh ?
There is no obligation for you to procure your handset from the
network you are joining. You are perfectly legally able to source your
own handset and then use the sim card you get when you sign up with
the network in your phone rather than the handset they give you
(assuming they insist on you "buying" a handset off them).
Although I'm not a big fan of the practice, I don't see what the
networks are doing wrong. When you sign up your contract, they are
"selling" you a phone to use with their network. After your minimum
term of your contract is up, the phone is still "for use with their
network". It is then within their rights to charge you a small fee if
you decide you want to use a phone, for use with, say, Orange, with
someone else.
Its just the way of the world, and, its only 20 quid. If it was 100
quid or more, then I'd be more in favour of dropping this practice,
but its only 20 quid, hardly a major inconvenience.
timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to hear...
> > It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't have
> > to
> > sign up.
> You work for Orange then?
Yes, I do.
> Not all networks are equal for coverage and if you can't get Virgin where
> you want it, you have no choice but to agree to conditions forced upon you
> by the other companies. Hardly a free choice.
Maybe not, but Orange nor any other network is obliged to provide
services in every single bit of the UK.
Also not the fault of the networks usually. Networks try to get coverage
wherever they can, but the NIMBY brigade manage to stop a good deal of
new BTS from being installed.
--
Regards
Jon
In message <MPG.203a272a46239e9298a73b@text.usenet.plus.net >, Jon
<spam@jonparker.plus.com> writes
>timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to hear...
>> > It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't have
>> > to
>> > sign up.
>
>> You work for Orange then?
>
>Yes, I do.
How much will Orange charge to unlock my 6630 which is way out of
contract?
On 12 Feb, 07:56, "dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse
%d...@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote:
> How much will Orange charge to unlock my 6630 which is way out of
> contract?
£20
The charge is not a "allow use of phone on other networks" charge but
an admin fee for getting the unlock code from the phone manufacturer.
This is allowed by OFCOM as long as it is "reasonable".
"King Of Fools" <ToBeTheKingOfFools@googlemail.com> wrote
in message
news:1171284654.112146.90210@m58g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com
> On 12 Feb, 07:56, "dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse
> %d...@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > How much will Orange charge to unlock my 6630 which is
> > way out of contract?
>
> £20
>
> The charge is not a "allow use of phone on other
> networks" charge but an admin fee for getting the unlock
> code from the phone manufacturer. This is allowed by
> OFCOM as long as it is "reasonable".
£20 is reasonable for a few seconds typing on a keyboard..? That's good
money, wish I had a job that paid like that.
In message <53b6n6F1qihsfU1@mid.individual.net>, Ivor Jones
<ivor@despammed.invalid> writes
>"King Of Fools" <ToBeTheKingOfFools@googlemail.com> wrote
>in message
>news:1171284654.112146.90210@m58g2000cwm.googlegr oups.com
>> On 12 Feb, 07:56, "dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse
>> %d...@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> > How much will Orange charge to unlock my 6630 which is
>> > way out of contract?
>>
>> £20
Thanks.
>>
>> The charge is not a "allow use of phone on other
>> networks" charge but an admin fee for getting the unlock
>> code from the phone manufacturer. This is allowed by
>> OFCOM as long as it is "reasonable".
>
>£20 is reasonable for a few seconds typing on a keyboard..? That's good
>money, wish I had a job that paid like that.
>
I do. The only problem is all the crap that comes before the few seconds
typing.
Apparently Orange (who are just about to ring me back) have to send away
to Nokia for the code (this takes ~2 weeks) and then post it to me.
Marvellous!
"Jon" <spam@jonparker.plus.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.20397fb87b6634d698a735@text.usenet.plus.n et...
> timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to hear...
>
>> > Yes, £20.
>
>> When is this kind of practice going to be ruled illegal?
>
> Probably when it actually becomes illegal.
>
>> If your contract has finished you've paid your dues and any subsidies
>> towards the cost of the
>> phone and the company is effectively holding something (which is no
>> longer
>> theirs) to ransom by demanding money to completely release the phone.
>
> It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't have to
> sign up.
Just because it's in the T&C's isn't really good enough.
Firstly, Orange decide which bits of their own T&C's they wish to abide by
on any given occassion.
Secondly, unfair terms are illegal and considering that the handset is the
property of the individual from day 1 of the contract I consider that Orange
lock it to their network to be unfair to me the consumer. I assume Orange's
excuse for the fee is to cover their admin costs of providing the unlock
code. However, £20 seems to me to be excessive and may in the future be
deemed to be so. I would suggest that the fee is £20 because so far no-one
has bothered to challenge it's fairness through the courts or indeed the
practice of locking.
All Orange would have to do is stipulate that the handset remains their
property for the minimum term of the contract, just as satellite and cable
boxes are. But as they don't, what right do they have to force my property
to only be used on their network?
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:53b6n6F1qihsfU1@mid.individual.net...
> "King Of Fools" <ToBeTheKingOfFools@googlemail.com> wrote
> in message
> news:1171284654.112146.90210@m58g2000cwm.googlegro ups.com
>> On 12 Feb, 07:56, "dave @ stejonda" <no$spam!delete&abuse
>> %d...@stejonda.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> > How much will Orange charge to unlock my 6630 which is
>> > way out of contract?
>>
>> £20
>>
>> The charge is not a "allow use of phone on other
>> networks" charge but an admin fee for getting the unlock
>> code from the phone manufacturer. This is allowed by
>> OFCOM as long as it is "reasonable".
>
> £20 is reasonable for a few seconds typing on a keyboard..? That's good
> money, wish I had a job that paid like that.
The banks are currently getting hammered for their excessive admin charges
(bounced check, refused DD, overdraft). Even though these charges are in
their T&C's they are excessive and unfair and hence illegal. These fee's are
not meant to be penalty charges but are supposed to represent fair and
justifiable admin fee's. So far no bank has been willing to stand up in
court and defend these fees.
Likewise I would not expect Orange to be able to defend, in court, a £20
admin fee for an unlock code.
Matt Wheeler wrote:
> "Tim Downie" <timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:539p6eF1s6kfvU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Jon wrote:
>>> timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to
>>> hear...
>>>>>> I have a k750i that is out of contract, locked to Orange. Will
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> charge me for the code and how much?
>>>
>>>>> Yes, £20.
>>>
>>>> When is this kind of practice going to be ruled illegal?
>>>
>>> Probably when it actually becomes illegal.
>>>
>>>> If your contract has finished you've paid your dues and any
>>>> subsidies towards the cost of the phone and the company is
>>>> effectively holding something (which is no longer
>>>> theirs) to ransom by demanding money to completely release the
>>>> phone.
>>>
>>> It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't
>>> have
>>> to
>>> sign up.
>>
>> You work for Orange then?
>>
>> It's iniquitous and while it may not be illegal it should be.
>>
>> Not all networks are equal for coverage and if you can't get Virgin
>> where you want it, you have no choice but to agree to conditions
>> forced upon you by the other companies. Hardly a free choice.
>>
>>
>
> Eh ?
> There is no obligation for you to procure your handset from the
> network you are joining. You are perfectly legally able to source your
> own handset and then use the sim card you get when you sign up with
> the network in your phone rather than the handset they give you
> (assuming they insist on you "buying" a handset off them).
>
> Although I'm not a big fan of the practice, I don't see what the
> networks are doing wrong. When you sign up your contract, they are
> "selling" you a phone to use with their network. After your minimum
> term of your contract is up, the phone is still "for use with their
> network". It is then within their rights to charge you a small fee if
> you decide you want to use a phone, for use with, say, Orange, with
> someone else.
I have no problem with a handset that is subsidised by call charges and
having a "lock in" period to enable costs to be recouped. I don't think
it's reasonable for the phone company to hold a portion of the value of that
phone back once the phone has been paid off.
When you finish paying off the HP on a car say, would you be happy paying
another charge to allow you to get it serviced by another garage? Of course
you can still buy a car without involving finance or loans but for many
people, it's the most affordabe way for them to do it. It's the same with
phones.
The cost to the phone company of providing an unlock code is insignificant.
£20 may be nothing to you but banks have recently been taken to task for
charging fees far in excess of their costs. I don't see why phone companies
should escape similar attention.
"Tim Downie" <timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:53bbr3F1rud7pU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> I have no problem with a handset that is subsidised by call charges and
> having a "lock in" period to enable costs to be recouped. I don't think
> it's reasonable for the phone company to hold a portion of the value of
> that phone back once the phone has been paid off.
>
> When you finish paying off the HP on a car say, would you be happy paying
> another charge to allow you to get it serviced by another garage? Of
> course you can still buy a car without involving finance or loans but for
> many people, it's the most affordabe way for them to do it. It's the same
> with phones.
Not the same, it's much worse than HP on a car. You own the phone from day 1
and the contract for airtime states this. Where as an HP contract clearly
states the car belongs to the loan company until paid off.
> The cost to the phone company of providing an unlock code is
> insignificant. £20 may be nothing to you but banks have recently been
> taken to task for charging fees far in excess of their costs. I don't see
> why phone companies should escape similar attention.
no$spam!delete&abuse%dave@stejonda.freeuk.com declared for all the world
to hear...
> In message <MPG.203a272a46239e9298a73b@text.usenet.plus.net >, Jon
> <spam@jonparker.plus.com> writes
> >timdownie2003@obvious.yahoo.co.uk declared for all the world to hear...
> >> > It's all in the T&C's. If people dont like them then they don't have
> >> > to
> >> > sign up.
> >
> >> You work for Orange then?
> >
> >Yes, I do.
>
> How much will Orange charge to unlock my 6630 which is way out of
> contract?
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 19:32:46 -0000, Jon <spam@jonparker.plus.com>
wrote:
>Probably when it actually becomes illegal.]
It has always been illegal. It is an unfair restraint of trade. The
mobile companies were supposed to only charge the actual cost of
unlocking (but why lock them in the first place if not as a restraint
of trade?) and £20 or so was fair enough for returning the handset to
a workshop and unlocking it, then sending it back.
Now it only consists of sending a number to the customer, £20 is a
total swindle. But one that's too small to be worth taking to court,
so they get away with it.
Orange unlocking charge out of contract? 
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