On 22 Mar, 09:29, Stephen Furley <fur...@mail.croydon.ac.uk> wrote:
> On 22 Mar, 08:15, The Real Doctor <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > £15 per month (for 24) if you order before the end of March. And
> > according to their website there is now no limit on downloads. VoIP
> > still blocked unless you pay more.
>
> I've just checked the website; you're correct about the £15 offer
> during March, but if you read the small print carefully the
> 'unlimited' data is still limited to either 3GB or 10GB by the fair
> use policy
You are quite right. It's a bit sneaky, that, because if you go to
www.t-mobile.co.uk -> Our Services -> Internet and Mobile Broadband ->
Internet on Laptops
you get
"Never having to pay more than £15 a month - as with all our mobile
broadband price plans, no matter how much you surf there are no extra
costs and hidden charges ***."
and you have to look under the asterisks to get
"... To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers, a fair
use policy of 3GB (of data sent and received in the UK) per month
applies. If you exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your
future use. If you again exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you that we
are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced
network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 3GB per month for a third
time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network
protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you
upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance."
> If you drink coffee, Most Starbucks
> shops have T-Mobile Hotspots, and T-Mobile have a roaming arrangement
> with BT Openzone
For which you have to pay - I can't find the costs quickly, but I
think it's the normal £1 per 10 minutes.
> You have to enable the
> Hotspot service by sending a text message whereupon they send you back
> a user name and password to log in to it.
Or you can sign up by phone (they tell me, haven't done it yet) and
get the WiFi set up there and then. Since I don't have a T-Mobile
phone, or a Windows PC, I expect I'll go that way.
> It's a good device, but the software needs to be improved, especially
> for the Mac. I believe that software for Linux also exists, but is
> not supplied with the device.
It's a Huawei E220, same as the 3 one. Vodafone, bless them, have
produced a Linux driver, althought it's possible to use it as a
standard USB modem with wvdial. See
I'll be using mine with my Eee, which I am assured supports the Huawei
out of the box. I'm holding off ordering it because I want to take
advantage of the 14-day trial you get if you check coverage on line,
and I won't be travelling to a couple of important places for it until
a couple of weeks from now ...
> On 22 Mar, 09:29, Stephen Furley <fur...@mail.croydon.ac.uk> wrote:
> > On 22 Mar, 08:15, The Real Doctor <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > �15 per month (for 24) if you order before the end of March. And
> > > according to their website there is now no limit on downloads. VoIP
> > > still blocked unless you pay more.
> >
> > I've just checked the website; you're correct about the �15 offer
> > during March, but if you read the small print carefully the
> > 'unlimited' data is still limited to either 3GB or 10GB by the fair
> > use policy
>
> You are quite right. It's a bit sneaky, that, because if you go to
>
> www.t-mobile.co.uk -> Our Services -> Internet and Mobile Broadband ->
> Internet on Laptops
>
> you get
>
> "Never having to pay more than �15 a month - as with all our mobile
> broadband price plans, no matter how much you surf there are no extra
> costs and hidden charges ***."
>
> and you have to look under the asterisks to get
>
> "... To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers, a fair
> use policy of 3GB (of data sent and received in the UK) per month
> applies. If you exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your
> future use. If you again exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you that we
> are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced
> network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 3GB per month for a third
> time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network
> protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you
> upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance."
>
> > If you drink coffee, Most Starbucks
> > shops have T-Mobile Hotspots, and T-Mobile have a roaming arrangement
> > with BT Openzone
>
> For which you have to pay - I can't find the costs quickly, but I
> think it's the normal �1 per 10 minutes.
I've used it a few times in Cafe Nero, just sellect 'T-Mobile UK' as
my service provider from the pull-down list, and paste in my T-Mobile
user name and password; I've not had to pay BT Openzone anything, and
not had any additional sum charged to my T-Mobile account. The only
additional charge I've had is 10p each for a few text messages each
month.
>
> > You have to enable the
> > Hotspot service by sending a text message whereupon they send you back
> > a user name and password to log in to it.
>
> Or you can sign up by phone (they tell me, haven't done it yet) and
> get the WiFi set up there and then. Since I don't have a T-Mobile
> phone, or a Windows PC, I expect I'll go that way.
>
> > It's a good device, but the software needs to be improved, especially
> > for the Mac. I believe that software for Linux also exists, but is
> > not supplied with the device.
>
> It's a Huawei E220, same as the 3 one. Vodafone, bless them, have
> produced a Linux driver, althought it's possible to use it as a
> standard USB modem with wvdial. See
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodafon...iver_for_Linux
>
> I'll be using mine with my Eee, which I am assured supports the Huawei
> out of the box. I'm holding off ordering it because I want to take
> advantage of the 14-day trial you get if you check coverage on line,
> and I won't be travelling to a couple of important places for it until
> a couple of weeks from now ...
>
> Ian
>
> PS uk.telecom.mobile added
On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 02:53:12 -0700 (PDT), The Real Doctor
<ian.groups@btinternet.com> wrote:
>and you have to look under the asterisks to get
>
>"... To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers, a fair
>use policy of 3GB (of data sent and received in the UK) per month
>applies. If you exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your
>future use. If you again exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you that we
>are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced
>network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 3GB per month for a third
>time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network
>protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you
>upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance."
I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
If you pay an extra fiver a month for Web n Walk Max you get 10GB
'fair use' allowance.
>
>> If you drink coffee, Most Starbucks
>> shops have T-Mobile Hotspots, and T-Mobile have a roaming arrangement
>> with BT Openzone
>
>For which you have to pay - I can't find the costs quickly, but I
>think it's the normal £1 per 10 minutes.
You get 300 minutes a month use of BT Openzone for free with Web n
Walk Plus or Max.
On 23 Mar, 16:00, G <nospample...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 02:53:12 -0700 (PDT), The Real Doctor
>
> <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >and you have to look under the asterisks to get
>
> >"... To ensure a high quality of service for all our customers, a fair
> >use policy of 3GB (of data sent and received in the UK) per month
> >applies. If you exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you to reduce your
> >future use. If you again exceed 3GB per month, we may tell you that we
> >are going to apply network protection controls, resulting in a reduced
> >network speed for 14 days. If you exceed 3GB per month for a third
> >time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network
> >protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you
> >upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance."
>
> I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
> gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
Well, when I rent a car the term "unlimited mileage" means just that;
none of the car rental firms I use have a "fair usage policy".
In message
<bd38879c-9229-4461-8cac-9f674bf00d19@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, at
09:09:33 on Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Paul Oter <paul.oter@googlemail.com>
remarked:
>> >If you exceed 3GB per month for a third
>> >time, we may tell you that we are going to apply further network
>> >protection controls, resulting in a reduced network speed until you
>> >upgrade your price plan to include a larger data allowance."
>>
>> I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
>> gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
>
>Well, when I rent a car the term "unlimited mileage" means just that;
>none of the car rental firms I use have a "fair usage policy".
That's partly because it's much harder work to exceed a "fair" mileage
in a rental car, than bytes on a broadband connection!
--
Roland Perry
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 16:09:33 +0000, Paul Oter wrote
>
>> I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
>> gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
>
> Well, when I rent a car the term "unlimited mileage" means just that;
> none of the car rental firms I use have a "fair usage policy".
I pay a monthly flat rate for unlimited use of the Severn Bridge - no fair
use limitation on that either.
"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vDzqns1Rio5HFAav@perry.co.uk
: In message
: <bd38879c-9229-4461-8cac-9f674bf00d19@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
: at 09:09:33 on Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Paul Oter
: <paul.oter@googlemail.com> remarked:
[snip]
: >Well, when I rent a car the term "unlimited mileage"
: >means just that; none of the car rental firms I use have
: >a "fair usage policy".
:
: That's partly because it's much harder work to exceed a
: "fair" mileage in a rental car, than bytes on a broadband
: connection!
That all depends on your definition of "fair" doesn't it. My definition of
fair when applied to something described as unlimited is precisely that.
It's blatantly *unfair* to me to limit something at the same time as
calling it unlimited.
On 23 Mar, 16:00, G <nospample...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
> gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
I don't know if anybody does, or ever did. I think it would be
unwise, there's always going to be somebody who will try to download
streaming video at the maximum for 24 hours, 365 days per year.
I typically use only about 150-200MB. per month, though for three days
while I was in Bradford for the Film Festival I did use about 100 MB.
per day, because it was covered by my standard £20 per month, and the
hotel Internet service was expensive. From my point of view, a pay
per MB. metered mobile service would probably be better, but T-Mobile
don't offer one, and since I use them for other things, I didn't
really want to go elsewhere. I'm not sure if anybody else offers such
a service now. Whether the limit is 1GB. or 3GB or 10GB per month
frankly makes no difference to me since I'm not going to use close to
any of those figures. To be fair to the staff at the T-Mobile shop,
they did clearly state what the limits were but I feel that to
describe the service as 'unlimited' in advertising is misleading; it
is limited, and it should be clearly stated what those limits are.
>
> If you pay an extra fiver a month for Web n Walk Max you get 10GB
> 'fair use' allowance.
I certainly don't have any problem with the idea that heavy users of
the service should pay more for it.
In message <64ngjmF2boclmU1@mid.individual.net>, at 16:59:30 on Sun, 23
Mar 2008, Ivor Jones <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> remarked:
>That all depends on your definition of "fair" doesn't it. My definition of
>fair when applied to something described as unlimited is precisely that.
>It's blatantly *unfair* to me to limit something at the same time as
>calling it unlimited.
I agree that the terminology is misleading, and it's been around a lot
longer than 3G. Every Internet access technology seems to start off with
"unlimited" packages that then get some sort of 'cap' applied.
--
Roland Perry
In message
<290ebb2b-1854-4e64-bad1-c6a62a97114e@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, at
10:07:14 on Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Stephen Furley <furles@mail.croydon.ac.uk>
remarked:
>On 23 Mar, 16:00, G <nospample...@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
>> gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
>
>I don't know if anybody does, or ever did. I think it would be
>unwise, there's always going to be somebody who will try to download
>streaming video at the maximum for 24 hours, 365 days per year.
There will be a few of those [1], but just as likely someone will share
the connection between a surprisingly large number of users (maybe even
a bus-load??) and rack up a large usage on otherwise mundane traffic.
On 23 Mar, 16:00, G <nospample...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 02:53:12 -0700 (PDT), The Real Doctor
>
> <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >For which you have to pay - I can't find the costs quickly, but I
> >think it's the normal £1 per 10 minutes.
>
> You get 300 minutes a month use of BT Openzone for free with Web n
> Walk Plus or Max.
Can you point me to that in the Terms and Conditions. I don't doubt
you at all, but I'd like to have a hard copy before I sign up, and I
couldn't find it ...
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:07:14 +0000, Stephen Furley wrote
>
>> I agree it's dodgy advertising, but did you seriously think anyone
>> gives genuinely unlimited use nowadays?
>
> I don't know if anybody does, or ever did. I think it would be
> unwise, there's always going to be somebody who will try to download
> streaming video at the maximum for 24 hours, 365 days per year.
Which is perfectly reasonable on an unlimited service. If I wanted to do
that then I'd be happy to pay for a genuinely unlimited service.
It would be better for an ISP to offer an honest series of monthly caps -
10GB, 50GB, 100GB, and a premium priced unlimited service aimed at those who
need a genuinely unlimited service - and would be willing to pay a premium
fir it
>>
>> If you pay an extra fiver a month for Web n Walk Max you get 10GB
>> 'fair use' allowance.
>
> I certainly don't have any problem with the idea that heavy users of
> the service should pay more for it.
Neither do I, but 'unlimited' should mean unlimited. A 10GB limit is a 10GB
limit and should be advertised as such.
On 23 Mar, 16:59, "Ivor Jones" <i...@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:vDzqns1Rio5HFAav@perry.co.uk
> : In message
> : <bd38879c-9229-4461-8cac-9f674bf00...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> : at 09:09:33 on Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Paul Oter
> : <paul.o...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>
> [snip]
>
> : >Well, when I rent a car the term "unlimited mileage"
> : >means just that; none of the car rental firms I use have
> : >a "fair usage policy".
> :
> : That's partly because it's much harder work to exceed a
> : "fair" mileage in a rental car, than bytes on a broadband
> : connection!
>
> That all depends on your definition of "fair" doesn't it. My definition of
> fair when applied to something described as unlimited is precisely that.
> It's blatantly *unfair* to me to limit something at the same time as
> calling it unlimited.
>
> Just my 2p.
>
I agree; if it's not unlimited they shouldn't call it that.
Ob uk.railway: My season ticket gives me genuinely unlimited travel
between Cambridge and London Terminals. Even though I am clearly
consuming a limited resource, there is no "cap" on my travel.
> On 23 Mar, 16:59, "Ivor Jones" <i...@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote:
>> "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> news:vDzqns1Rio5HFAav@perry.co.uk
>>: In message
>>: <bd38879c-9229-4461-8cac-9f674bf00...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>>: at 09:09:33 on Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Paul Oter
>>: <paul.o...@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>: >Well, when I rent a car the term "unlimited mileage"
>>: >means just that; none of the car rental firms I use have
>>: >a "fair usage policy".
>>:
>>: That's partly because it's much harder work to exceed a
>>: "fair" mileage in a rental car, than bytes on a broadband
>>: connection!
>>
>> That all depends on your definition of "fair" doesn't it. My definition of
>> fair when applied to something described as unlimited is precisely that.
>> It's blatantly *unfair* to me to limit something at the same time as
>> calling it unlimited.
>>
>> Just my 2p.
>>
>
> I agree; if it's not unlimited they shouldn't call it that.
>
> Ob uk.railway: My season ticket gives me genuinely unlimited travel
> between Cambridge and London Terminals. Even though I am clearly
> consuming a limited resource, there is no "cap" on my travel.
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT), Ian
<ian.groups@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> You get 300 minutes a month use of BT Openzone for free with Web n
>> Walk Plus or Max.
>
>Can you point me to that in the Terms and Conditions. I don't doubt
>you at all, but I'd like to have a hard copy before I sign up, and I
>couldn't find it ...
You actually get the allowance with any monthly plan but when I signed
up to WnW+ the £10 monthly charge was offset. I regularly use BT
Openzone at Caffe Nero and don't pay any extra on top of my £5 a month
'plus' upgrade.
Can't find anything on the current site about hotspots still being
free with WnW+
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:16:19 +0000, Stimpy <stimpy1997uk@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>It would be better for an ISP to offer an honest series of monthly caps -
>10GB, 50GB, 100GB, and a premium priced unlimited service aimed at those who
>need a genuinely unlimited service - and would be willing to pay a premium
>fir it
T-Mobile are better than some providers in that they don't charge for
usage above their 'fair' limit. They issue a warning then cut the
service. Looking at their site today there is no mention of
unlimited but a few mentions of their 3GB and 10GB 'fair use'
policies.
I think it was Vodafone that hit the headlines by charging someone
'000s for excessive use.
Second last paragraph includes 'Web'n'walk Plus includes access to
T-Mobile HotSpots in the UK'. In practice, this is the £10 deal, with
a £10 monthly allowance credited back to your account, including the
BT allowance.
On 23 Mar, 23:04, G <nospample...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT), Ian
>
> <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >> You get 300 minutes a month use of BT Openzone for free with Web n
> >> Walk Plus or Max.
>
> >Can you point me to that in the Terms and Conditions. I don't doubt
> >you at all, but I'd like to have a hard copy before I sign up, and I
> >couldn't find it ...
>
> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/m...hotspot/costs/
>
> You actually get the allowance with any monthly plan but when I signed
> up to WnW+ the £10 monthly charge was offset. I regularly use BT
> Openzone at Caffe Nero and don't pay any extra on top of my £5 a month
> 'plus' upgrade.
I can see the BT roaming bit under a pure Hotspot subscription, but I
can't see anything on their site which says it applies to
Web'n'walk ...
> Can't find anything on the current site about hotspots still being
> free with WnW+
It's a bit convoluted. If you follow the obvious links to the
web'n'walk plans in the shop it's not there, but if you go to Our
Services -> Internet and Mobile Broadband -> Internet on Laptops,
under "The best mobile broadband service" is
"Being with the only service with unlimited WiFi Hotspots included in
your broadband plan"
New customers that sign up to web'n'walk Max, Plus, or Plus Daily* can
now enjoy WiFi access in any of our HotSpots across the UK. So on top
of 3G coverage across the country, unlimited WiFi Hotspots are
included in the price - in places where you need WiFi the most, such
as airports, hotels and Starbucks.
which doesn't mention BT Openzone. Follow a few more links from that
and you get roaming charges to BT of £1 / 10 minutes.
On 23 Mar, 23:08, G <nospample...@mailinator.com> wrote:
> T-Mobile are better than some providers in that they don't charge for
> usage above their 'fair' limit. They issue a warning then cut the
> service. Looking at their site today there is no mention of
> unlimited but a few mentions of their 3GB and 10GB 'fair use'
> policies.
Yes, the site has changed; it now tells you that the £15 special offer
ends soon, and this page: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobil...s/pay-monthly/
now gas the 3GB and 10GB limits highlighted in pink on the page, you
don't have to follow a link to another page to see them. However,
under the 'Monthly allowance' column for all four options it still
says 'Unlimited data'. Since the 'fair use' limits are now clearly
stated further up on the same page, this is far less misleading than
the old page was. However, I still don't like the use of the word
'Unlimited' to describe a service which has a limit. T-Mobile offer a
good service, and the limits are far more than I will use, so it
doesn't affect me, but I still feel that the wording is wrong.
In message <7lndu3h7disvu0595i4p3rudllp3nq9mn9@4ax.com>, at 23:08:21 on
Sun, 23 Mar 2008, G <nospamplease@mailinator.com> remarked:
>I think it was Vodafone that hit the headlines by charging someone
>'000s for excessive use.
Yes, I posted the link, but to be fair (sic) the person had only bought
a very low volume package. The other story that's been circulating is
someone whose phone continued to download when they were roaming
overseas (which costs more on almost all networks), resulting in a £11k
bill!!
--
Roland Perry
In message <gtndu3h0t9e9eatjcv4nvltf2v7bbjb6mq@4ax.com>, at 23:04:20 on
Sun, 23 Mar 2008, G <nospamplease@mailinator.com> remarked:
>>Can you point me to that in the Terms and Conditions. I don't doubt
>>you at all, but I'd like to have a hard copy before I sign up, and I
>>couldn't find it ...
>
>http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/m...hotspot/costs/
>
>You actually get the allowance with any monthly plan but when I signed
>up to WnW+ the £10 monthly charge was offset. I regularly use BT
>Openzone at Caffe Nero and don't pay any extra on top of my £5 a month
>'plus' upgrade.
>
>Can't find anything on the current site about hotspots still being
>free with WnW+
It seems pretty clear that the mobile networks are playing their usual
"confusion pricing" games with broadband, and moving the goalposts all
the time. That's a major reason why I chose a PAYG plan - my downside is
limited to unexpectedly sudden exhaustion of a £10 voucher, there's no
way I'll ever get a bill for megabucks.
--
Roland Perry
* G wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 11:11:18 -0700 (PDT), Ian
> <ian.groups@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>> You get 300 minutes a month use of BT Openzone for free with Web n
>>> Walk Plus or Max.
>> Can you point me to that in the Terms and Conditions. I don't doubt
>> you at all, but I'd like to have a hard copy before I sign up, and I
>> couldn't find it ...
>
> http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/m...hotspot/costs/
>
> You actually get the allowance with any monthly plan but when I signed
> up to WnW+ the £10 monthly charge was offset. I regularly use BT
> Openzone at Caffe Nero and don't pay any extra on top of my £5 a month
> 'plus' upgrade.
Re: Bus wi-fi 
Linear Mode
