"The Iceman" <mike@theREMOVEhickses.org> wrote in message
news:44cf42f6$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an 0800
> call?
> I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
> Will report my findings...
>
Wow. Nothing!
I'm dead impressed.
Sipgate don't mention 0800 calls in their tarriff. They only give prices for
0870, 0845, and fixed networks. This is normally a cunning ploy to charge
0800s as normal landlines or worse.
I've just viewed my itemised bill and its headed "Calls charged for in
August" and contains the calls just before and after my 0800 call, but the
0800 call isn't listed.
I had an 0870 number to call to sort out one of my utility bills and I went
to www.saynoto0870.com and did a search, and it gave me the equivalent
landline number to call, plus an alternative 0800 number!
Thus spaketh The Iceman:
> "The Iceman" <mike@theREMOVEhickses.org> wrote in message
> news:44cf42f6$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an
>> 0800 call?
>> I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
>> Will report my findings...
>>
>
> Wow. Nothing!
> I'm dead impressed.
> Sipgate don't mention 0800 calls in their tarriff. They only give
> prices for 0870, 0845, and fixed networks. This is normally a cunning
> ploy to charge 0800s as normal landlines or worse.
> I've just viewed my itemised bill and its headed "Calls charged for in
> August" and contains the calls just before and after my 0800 call,
> but the 0800 call isn't listed.
>
> I had an 0870 number to call to sort out one of my utility bills and
> I went to www.saynoto0870.com and did a search, and it gave me the
> equivalent landline number to call, plus an alternative 0800 number!
>
> Icey
Indeed 0800 and 0808 are free via Sipgate, I pass all my freephone
numbers through Sipgate.
{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
> Thus spaketh The Iceman:
>> "The Iceman" <mike@theREMOVEhickses.org> wrote in message
>> news:44cf42f6$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an
>>> 0800 call?
>>> I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
>>> Will report my findings...
>>>
>>
>> Wow. Nothing!
>> I'm dead impressed.
>> Sipgate don't mention 0800 calls in their tarriff. They only give
>> prices for 0870, 0845, and fixed networks. This is normally a cunning
>> ploy to charge 0800s as normal landlines or worse.
>> I've just viewed my itemised bill and its headed "Calls charged for in
>> August" and contains the calls just before and after my 0800 call,
>> but the 0800 call isn't listed.
>>
>> I had an 0870 number to call to sort out one of my utility bills and
>> I went to www.saynoto0870.com and did a search, and it gave me the
>> equivalent landline number to call, plus an alternative 0800 number!
>>
>> Icey
>
>
> Indeed 0800 and 0808 are free via Sipgate, I pass all my freephone
> numbers through Sipgate.
>
Aren't they free with most providers then?
They are free with gradwell, (according to their tarriff lookup), and
free with voip.co.uk (according to the call rates section on their website).
Thomas Kenyon formulated the question :
> {{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
>> Thus spaketh The Iceman:
>>> "The Iceman" <mike@theREMOVEhickses.org> wrote in message
>>> news:44cf42f6$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>>> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an
>>>> 0800 call?
>>>> I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
>>>> Will report my findings...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow. Nothing!
>>> I'm dead impressed.
>>> Sipgate don't mention 0800 calls in their tarriff. They only give
>>> prices for 0870, 0845, and fixed networks. This is normally a cunning
>>> ploy to charge 0800s as normal landlines or worse.
>>> I've just viewed my itemised bill and its headed "Calls charged for in
>>> August" and contains the calls just before and after my 0800 call,
>>> but the 0800 call isn't listed.
>>>
>>> I had an 0870 number to call to sort out one of my utility bills and
>>> I went to www.saynoto0870.com and did a search, and it gave me the
>>> equivalent landline number to call, plus an alternative 0800 number!
>>>
>>> Icey
>>
>>
>> Indeed 0800 and 0808 are free via Sipgate, I pass all my freephone
>> numbers through Sipgate.
>>
> Aren't they free with most providers then?
> They are free with gradwell, (according to their tarriff lookup), and
> free with voip.co.uk (according to the call rates section on their website).
"The Iceman" <mike@theREMOVEhickses.org> wrote in message
news:44cf42f6$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com
> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate
> charge for an 0800 call? I'm making one even as we speak,
> oops type! Will report my findings...
Nothing. Believe it or not, they're free. And you don't have to have any
credit on your account either.
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4j9ifgF7007rU1@individual.net...
> "The Iceman" <mike@theREMOVEhickses.org> wrote in message
> news:44cf42f6$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com
>> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate
>> charge for an 0800 call? I'm making one even as we speak,
>> oops type! Will report my findings...
>
> Nothing. Believe it or not, they're free. And you don't have to have any
> credit on your account either.
>
> Ivor
I make all my 0800 calls via Sipgate (no credit) because I strongly suspect
if I made them through my main VOIPCHEAP account, although free, they would
impact on the 300min per week free call limit.
Recently, The Iceman popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an 0800 call?
|I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
|Will report my findings...
|
Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge" calls, the cost is
all on the call recipient shoulders. No charge whatsoever must be made
to the caller by any phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat with them... ;-)
"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f39ef02f97260069896d0@text.news.blueyond er.co.uk
> Recently, The Iceman popped out over the fence
> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
> > Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate
> > charge for an 0800 call? I'm making one even as we
> > speak, oops type!
> > Will report my findings...
> >
> Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge"
> calls, the cost is all on the call recipient shoulders.
> No charge whatsoever must be made to the caller by any
> phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
> If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat with
> them... ;-)
Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|
|
|"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
|news:MPG.1f39ef02f97260069896d0@text.news.blueyon der.co.uk
|> Recently, The Iceman popped out over the fence
|> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|> > Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate
|> > charge for an 0800 call? I'm making one even as we
|> > speak, oops type!
|> > Will report my findings...
|> >
|> Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge"
|> calls, the cost is all on the call recipient shoulders.
|> No charge whatsoever must be made to the caller by any
|> phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
|> If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat with
|> them... ;-)
|
|Tell that to the mobile networks..............
|
|Ivor
|
Mobile networks are a totally different matter:
1) You've got always to pay your network provider for the channel you're
using in the cell;
2) Being the cost of a mobile call much higher than the cost of the most
long-distance call possible, you've got to bear the difference between
the subsidy the call recipient is putting toward the call cost and the
actual call cost;
3) Not all the freephone numbers have such a subsidy limitation, some of
them are free even from a mobile (I.e. emergency calls).
After all, if you pay something for a mobile-to-freephone call it's up
to the greedy habit of the mobile networks provider to make you pay out
of your nose for every breath you take.
That's why I subscribed to an all-inclusive plan for my mobile.
"X" minutes / month, any network, SMS, MMS, data transfers, etc...
Next step, is mobile VoIP. My next portable communication device won't
be a mobile, but a Origami.
ßødincµs²°°° wrote:
> Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
> |
> |
> |"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
> |news:MPG.1f39ef02f97260069896d0@text.news.blueyon der.co.uk
> |> Recently, The Iceman popped out over the fence
> |> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
> |> > Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate
> |> > charge for an 0800 call? I'm making one even as we
> |> > speak, oops type!
> |> > Will report my findings...
> |> >
> |> Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge"
> |> calls, the cost is all on the call recipient shoulders.
> |> No charge whatsoever must be made to the caller by any
> |> phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
> |> If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat with
> |> them... ;-)
> |
> |Tell that to the mobile networks..............
> |
> |Ivor
> |
> Mobile networks are a totally different matter:
>
> 1) You've got always to pay your network provider for the channel you're
> using in the cell;
Charging is understandable really, Orange used to allow free 0800
access, and people used 0800 call routing providers to make calls.
"ßødincµs²°°°" <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1f3a823177d2c1c39896d1@text.news.blueyond er.co.uk
[snip]
> > > Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge"
> > > calls, the cost is all on the call recipient
> > > shoulders. No charge whatsoever must be made to the
> > > caller by any phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
> > > If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat
> > > with them... ;-)
> >
> > Tell that to the mobile networks..............
> >
> > Ivor
> >
> Mobile networks are a totally different matter:
>
> 1) You've got always to pay your network provider for the
> channel you're using in the cell;
Cobblers. The callee is supposed to pay. If they don't want to pay the
higher charges (funny how the US manages) then let them lose customers.
> 2) Being the cost of a mobile call much higher than the
> cost of the most long-distance call possible,
No it isn't. That's a fallacy perpetuated by the mobile networks.
> you've got
> to bear the difference between the subsidy the call
> recipient is putting toward the call cost and the actual
> call cost; 3) Not all the freephone numbers have such a
> subsidy limitation, some of them are free even from a
> mobile (I.e. emergency calls).
Freephone means free. If you're going to charge for it, change the name.
Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Thomas Kenyon" <tom@art-it-services.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:sM3Ag.56246$eQ.17596@newsfe7-win.ntli.net
>
> [snip]
>
>> Charging is understandable really, Orange used to allow
>> free 0800 access, and people used 0800 call routing
>> providers to make calls.
>
> And presumably got paid by the owners of the 0800 numbers. Where's the
> problem..?
>
The owners of the 0800 numbers only need to pay for the leg between the
interconnect and the termination point. Orange were losing a fortune on
not being able to bill for the calls. (not to mention giving line rental
out stripping commssions on selling the handset to the customer).
As an example, I'm sure you are aware that anyone can pay as little as
1.8p/min (+VAT) for an 0800 number incoming irrespective of who calls
them when terminated to a voip account and from 2.19p/min for an 0800
number terminated to a landline number (or 5.94p/min and £120/year from BT).
Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
around uk.telecom.voip and said...
|> Mobile networks are a totally different matter:
|>
|> 1) You've got always to pay your network provider for the
|> channel you're using in the cell;
|
|Cobblers. The callee is supposed to pay. If they don't want to pay the
|higher charges (funny how the US manages) then let them lose customers.
No, the callee doesn't have to pay for that, sorry mate... That's ALWAYS
a cost YOU must bear when you use a mobile, that's something YOUR
provider charges YOU, independently from the callee: freephone, another
mobile, a fixed line or a VoIP termination.
|> 2) Being the cost of a mobile call much higher than the
|> cost of the most long-distance call possible,
|No it isn't. That's a fallacy perpetuated by the mobile networks.
Humpf... The cost of running a network of cells IS higher than running a
handful of local exchanges. Probably the difference is not so steep as
is seems by the call cost difference, but it's definitely more expensive
to setup and maintain a cell network than a wired one.
|> you've got
|> to bear the difference between the subsidy the call
|> recipient is putting toward the call cost and the actual
|> call cost; 3) Not all the freephone numbers have such a
|> subsidy limitation, some of them are free even from a
|> mobile (I.e. emergency calls).
|Freephone means free. If you're going to charge for it, change the name.
It's NOT the company that is offering to call them free that's charging
you for calling them by mobile, Ivor!!! It's your mobile provider that
is doing it! You are not paying the full price of the call because the
callee is subsidising your call up to an amount (X p/min) that usually
covers all the cost for a call from the farthest possible *geographic*
origin.
Some of those companies are happy to pay for your call without a limit
tag, some others don't and put a limit on the price per minute they can
afford to pay to accept a call.
Be grateful that you're not paying the full price, mate!
>Recently, The Iceman popped out over the fence
>around uk.telecom.voip and said...
>|Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an 0800 call?
>|I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
>|Will report my findings...
>|
>Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge" calls, the cost is
>all on the call recipient shoulders. No charge whatsoever must be made
>to the caller by any phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
>If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat with them... ;-)
Not true I'm afraid. Any network can charge for 0800 numbers, however there is a
usually a requirement that a free of charge announcement needs to be made before
connecting the call advising the user of this.
Linus Surguy expressed precisely :
> ßødincµs²°°° <this.em@il.is.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Recently, The Iceman popped out over the fence
>> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
>>> Just out of curiosity does anyone know what Sipgate charge for an 0800
>>> call? I'm making one even as we speak, oops type!
>>> Will report my findings...
>>>
>> Calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers are "reverse charge" calls, the cost is
>> all on the call recipient shoulders. No charge whatsoever must be made
>> to the caller by any phone provider, being it PSTN or VoIP.
>> If anyone does, the OFT is very interested in a chat with them... ;-)
>
> Not true I'm afraid. Any network can charge for 0800 numbers, however there
> is a usually a requirement that a *free of charge announcement* needs to be
> made before connecting the call advising the user of this.
>
> Linus
> Recently, Ivor Jones popped out over the fence
> around uk.telecom.voip and said...
> |> 2) Being the cost of a mobile call much higher than the
> |> cost of the most long-distance call possible,
> |No it isn't. That's a fallacy perpetuated by the mobile networks.
> Humpf... The cost of running a network of cells IS higher than running a
> handful of local exchanges. Probably the difference is not so steep as
> is seems by the call cost difference, but it's definitely more expensive
> to setup and maintain a cell network than a wired one.
Really? I'd like to see a comparison in cost per 'line' [ie mobile handset
or landline] between a large mobile telco and BT. I reckon the cost per
line is less than you'd think - yes there are more cell sites than there
are landline exchanges and mobile telcos don't have the USO, but there's
far less pesky cabling to worry about as [IIRC] cell sites are mostly
interconnected with point-to-point microwave links.
Anyone who isn't just speculating [like I am] care to comment?
--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
18:49:06 up 10 days, 10 min, 3 users, load average: 0.21, 0.24, 0.26
This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK
The bit about mobile networks paying cor the cell etc is not valid.
I'm a mobile network engineer and 0800 calls work exactly the same
way as they do abroad, the person receiving the call pays for it.
Therefore mobile networks are getting paid twice, once by the
subscriber, and 2nd by the receiver of the call (indirectly)
Further these calls are free on mobile networks abroad, look at
Ireland for an example, 02 and vodafone over there, the freephone
calls ARE actually free!
--
--------------------------------- --- -- -
Posted with NewsLeecher v3.7 Final
Web @ http://www.newsleecher.com/?usenet
------------------- ----- ---- -- -
ei6bmb_nospam@eircom.net wrote:
> The bit about mobile networks paying cor the cell etc is not valid.
> I'm a mobile network engineer and 0800 calls work exactly the same
> way as they do abroad, the person receiving the call pays for it.
> Therefore mobile networks are getting paid twice, once by the
> subscriber, and 2nd by the receiver of the call (indirectly)
Perhaps the mobile operators do not consider the amount they are paid as
the originating operator sufficient the costs of switching the call, so
they charge the caller to make up the difference.
On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:19:40 +0100, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk>
wrote:
>Perhaps the mobile operators do not consider the amount they are paid as
>the originating operator sufficient the costs of switching the call, so
>they charge the caller to make up the difference.
"DMac" <a77w@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wvOBg.61581$9d4.50575@fe2.news.blueyonder.co. uk
> > No, it's simple greed.
>
> Welcome to rip-off Britain
Seen the latest..? £1800 road tax for gas guzzlers..?!
Ivor Jones wrote:
> "DMac" <a77w@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:wvOBg.61581$9d4.50575@fe2.news.blueyonder.co. uk
>>> No, it's simple greed.
>> Welcome to rip-off Britain
>
> Seen the latest..? £1800 road tax for gas guzzlers..?!
>
> Ivor
>
Sounds good to me.
Cost of 0800 calls 
Linear Mode
