"{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk>
wrote in message
news:fZCdnZ2dnZ2nX7-snZ2dnZW1gN6dnZ2dRVnypp2dnZ0@pipex.net
> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
[snip]
> > The fire risk from a PC is relatively small. The
> > biggest risk is from the monitor, although that is less
> > now that flat screens are becoming common. I once had
> > an old CRT monitor burst into flames in front of my
> > eyes, that plug got pulled out pretty quick..!!
>
> Was that an Amstrad monitor, they were known to catch
> fire, we used to get loads of them in with all the
> plastic melted.
I don't recall ofhand, it was about 10 years ago. It wasn't a badged one
of any of the well known names like Dell or Compaq though, IIRC it was
just a cheapo one from a computer fair.
>
> OK, I'm not going to outright come and say "you're wrong", but can you
> explain how you've come to this conclusion? Unless your electricity is
> free or below cost, or your computer isn't a PC, or it's not running
> 24/7, it seems unlikely.
>
> If you're just going by the size of your bill and guessing, you'd be
> surprised. In my last house (I get "free" electricity in this one)
> which had gas heating and cooking, approximately 70% of the
> GBP80/quarter electricity bill was due to computers and associated
> equipment.
>
A while back, I had a friend living here, so I had three computers on
24/7, my computer, my friends computer and the server. at the time I was
paying my eletric via a Pre-pay meter, so I knew how much I put in and
that was about £5 a week, which is about £220 a year. she was here for
two years, when she moved out, she took her computer and the server was
switched off and was only put back into operation in the last few
months.
Now if each computer took £60 a year to run, how much would you think my
electric bill would go down by, with two computers less? the fgirst
year, my bill should have been about £120 less, going by what you are
saying each computer takes. We had most meals together, so cooking was
done at the same time, The only things that used more electric when she
was here, was the washing machine and the shower. I know electric have
gone up in the last 2 years, but not to that extent.
On Tue, 6 Sep 2005 18:07:22 +0100, AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk>
wrote:
>In article <431d76c7$0$17950$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>,
>abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk says...
>
>>
>> OK, I'm not going to outright come and say "you're wrong", but can you
>> explain how you've come to this conclusion? Unless your electricity is
>> free or below cost, or your computer isn't a PC, or it's not running
>> 24/7, it seems unlikely.
>>
>> If you're just going by the size of your bill and guessing, you'd be
>> surprised. In my last house (I get "free" electricity in this one)
>> which had gas heating and cooking, approximately 70% of the
>> GBP80/quarter electricity bill was due to computers and associated
>> equipment.
>>
>
>A while back, I had a friend living here, so I had three computers on
>24/7, my computer, my friends computer and the server. at the time I was
>paying my eletric via a Pre-pay meter, so I knew how much I put in and
>that was about £5 a week, which is about £220 a year. she was here for
>two years, when she moved out, she took her computer and the server was
>switched off and was only put back into operation in the last few
>months.
>
>Now if each computer took £60 a year to run, how much would you think my
>electric bill would go down by, with two computers less? the fgirst
>year, my bill should have been about £120 less, going by what you are
>saying each computer takes. We had most meals together, so cooking was
>done at the same time, The only things that used more electric when she
>was here, was the washing machine and the shower. I know electric have
>gone up in the last 2 years, but not to that extent.
You have to take into account the fact that the display monitor can
consume much more power than all the rest of the computer equipment
put together. This was especially true for the older CRT type
monitors, less so for new LCD displays.
A computer running 24/7 doing nothing except operating as a server for
running Asterisk or something, but with the display turned off, would
consume less power than one being used every day for normal work.
>
> You have to take into account the fact that the display monitor can
> consume much more power than all the rest of the computer equipment
> put together. This was especially true for the older CRT type
> monitors, less so for new LCD displays.
>
> A computer running 24/7 doing nothing except operating as a server for
> running Asterisk or something, but with the display turned off, would
> consume less power than one being used every day for normal work.
>
I realise that, but my other computers did not have the displays on all
the time either. The displays was only on when the computer needed to be
accessed.
>On 03 Sep 2005 00:50:17 GMT, abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk (Peter) wrote:
>
>><Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>[...]
>>> It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all
>>> they need it for is an ADSL connection,
>>
>>If you don't have a phone line, how on earth are BT supposed to
>>deliver ADSL? RFC1149 avian carrier? Telepathy?
>A "phone" line carries both voice traffic and ADSL data one could or
>should be able to have use of just the data side of the line without
>having to have and be charged for the voice side of the line to put it
>simply .
Then who pays for the equipment at the exchange, the routers, etc?
Andrew.
--
Andrew Hodgson in Bromyard, Herefordshire, UK.
My Email: use <andrew at hodgsonfamily dot org>.
On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:27:54 +0100, Andrew Hodgson <me3@privacy.net>
wrote:
>Then who pays for the equipment at the exchange, the routers, etc?
they aren't in the line rental, ADSL setup and rental pays for that
side of it, call charges (minimum call chrge) for the voice side.
I think line rental should be proptioned to bandwidth, so 4 kHz worth
for the voice signal and then next 1.1 MHz for ADSL (more later for
ADSL2+) so removing the voice capability would save 0.0004% of the
cost :-)
Phil
--
Remember - Global Warming is only a weather forecast :-)
> I think line rental should be proptioned to bandwidth, so 4 kHz worth
> for the voice signal and then next 1.1 MHz for ADSL (more later for
> ADSL2+) so removing the voice capability would save 0.0004% of the
> cost :-)
Isn't the problem that the margin is in the call minutes but the driver
for network expansion is in the cell/packet payload? I guess we will
end up with some kind of gateway which measures how much bandwidth
we've consumed over what period (something which ATM does pretty well
and IP doesn't just yet). But as you infer, if pricing is based on
bandwidth and voice consumes very little, then how do the telcos
present a coherent pricing policy?
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"Nick Ward" <nicky.ward@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125586579.264605.248060@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com
[snip]
> The challenge for the telcoms industry is to identify
> applications which are going to drive deployment of a
> true broadband network. Given that 7M homes in the UK
> have a satellite dish, do we want/need TV over the phone
> line (whether it's copper or fibre)? If we have multi-MB
> access to our homes, will we all buy videophones? We
> didn't when we had ISDN2. Or are we going to start
> swapping our DVDs on-line? To sum up, what's the golden
> application for mass-market broadband? If it's TV >>
> Sport >> Football then why change the telephone network
> to do something which Sky does already?
For me, broadband is about fast internet access and VoIP. I don't watch TV
over it, and only occasionally do I listen to radio through it.
Broadband over satellite is problematic. Latency in the connection, for
one thing. Also not everybody has Sky nor do they want it. I for one will
not pay their inflated prices for a service more geared to quantity (200+
channels seems to be their main selling point) rather than quality of
programming. VoIP over a satellite link for the same reason is unlikely to
be viable in the near future.
Personally I think that we'll be needing copper pairs for a good while
yet.
In article <3pfpjhF9pgkeU1@individual.net>, ivor@despammed.invalid
says...
>>
> For me, broadband is about fast internet access and VoIP. I don't watch TV
> over it, and only occasionally do I listen to radio through it.
>
The only T.V thing I watch over the internet is Nasa Tv now and again, I
wish that is was on the Sky system, it would be much better, because
over the internet the quality is not that great.
I listen to two american stations now and again on the net, but any
other I either use FM or the Sky box.
> Broadband over satellite is problematic. Latency in the connection, for
True
> one thing. Also not everybody has Sky nor do they want it. I for one will
That is also true
> not pay their inflated prices for a service more geared to quantity (200+
At least now you do have a better choice and can now chose different
mixes. I admit the pirce could be better.
As for quality and quantity, most companies are like that these days.
Take a look at mobile phones.
> channels seems to be their main selling point) rather than quality of
> programming. VoIP over a satellite link for the same reason is unlikely to
> be viable in the near future.
>
I don't think it will be mainly because of the delay and also price.
> Personally I think that we'll be needing copper pairs for a good while
> yet.
They seem to prove they work and considering they was made for speech
only, they do very well and some of them are years old.
In article <0d28j1dgo9ma7vsul07iiblhcu8hpu0skj@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
>
> I know that at BT research centre near me at Martlesham they are
> already using voip so I expect BT will eventually bundle the telephone
> in as part of their BB offering. The big problem is the exploitative
I don't think they will be allowed to.
> price of mobile calls atm and I think BT will have that cracked soon
> to if you take into account the post by John about the article in the
> Economist and his own views.
I don't use my mobile mucha nd I dohn;t call mobiles, unless it is an
emergency.
In article <25i8j19hahgi3e01cjo5uhdlp85t9kgf0e@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
> >
> >I don't think they will be allowed to.
>
> What even if other ISP's are able to do so too?
Correct, Bt is in a diferent situration than the other ISPs, don't
forget that BT is still a monopoly.
>
> I couldn't afford to call a mobile from a mobile. I hate having to
> call mobiles from me landline. It is a giant rip off.
> pete
>
The whole mobile system is a rip off, but since people are prepeard to
use them so much, nothing will be done.
In article <5o0bj19m01c87krogvfkepd3ifu9cud93c@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
> Yes but if they have got away with it for so long and allow other
> ISP's to use the same arrangements with their customers I cannot see
> the problem. In fact I would think many of the other ISP's would jump
> at the chance to be able to offer their customers free telephone
> calls.
Maybe, but Ofcom still got BT on a lead, well sometimes they have.
> >
> >The whole mobile system is a rip off, but since people are prepeard to
> >use them so much, nothing will be done.
>
> Yes that is the problem until mobiles become voip enabled. This is all
> a comparatively new use for communicating and I think something is
> bound to happen eventually. Wishful thinking?
I think it will be a few years yet. For VOIP to work on mobiles, the 3G
network would need to be used and there are still not that many 3g
phones around.
Most phones that are around now, could not be used for VOIP. I only just
got myself a new mobile phone and I am not going to buy another for at
least 6 years, I will try and make it ten years if I can.
I did not want to buy this thing, but my old one fell out of my pocket
and decided it did not want to play anymore.
I hate mobile phones, I really do. The only reason I got one is because
of my mother being ill.
>One problems occurs
>to me though and that is my bt phone. It costs more in rental than for
>the calls we make and I don't know if I could have it taken out and
>retain my BB?
the line rental pays for the line over which your ADSL broadband is
delivered. If you want to be free of the line rental you need to
switch to cable broadband, wireless or satelite.
Phil
--
Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
No more cable clowns :-))
Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.
A few more years, and you'll be looking at this entire discussion
wondering what the heck you spent your time on :) Once upon a time I
guess there might have been news groups discussing electricity, and
subsequently POTS (had that been possible), but now both are just an
outlet in the wall and that's it. :-)
In article <7dlbj15tb2410iqf2gsqk8frb9l92uq0gj@4ax.com>, phil.thompson@spamcop.net says...
>
> no point really, why use 50 kbits/s for a job that is currently done
> with 14.4 kbits/s :-)
>
So we will get even worse quality.
In article <m2pbj112uci2h7dbrou6ue5elfjkeugbmj@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
> >Maybe, but Ofcom still got BT on a lead, well sometimes they have.
>
> We can but hope.
I hope for a lot of things but they never happen.
> >I hate mobile phones, I really do. The only reason I got one is because
> >of my mother being ill.
>
> The thing I dislike about mobiles is my g/children will text me and
> that means I have to stop the car, put my glasses on and then try and
> find their message. Other than that we use them only for emergencies
> and as we have had our motorola m3788e phones for about 4 years now
> (new batteries) we know we are way out of date but we just cannot see
> the numbers on small new phones. Now, if they were voip enabled I
At the end of the day if they work, then what is the problem?
I do not see the sense in getting new mobhiles every other month, if
they do what they should do, make and recieve calls.
I had a nice little Sendo flip phone, it worked well, but I pulled it
out of my pocket and it kind of went on the floor, since then it had
problems. So I got myself a Motorola V547 and do be honest I hate the
thing. It is bulky, quiet, the batteries last about two days in standby
which is a disgrace. I can not see the screen in the sunlight. the Sendo
wasnot great, but at least I could just about see the screen in bright
sunlight.
This Motorola got a camera, well they call it a camera, I am not sure,
because the quality is crap. I still carry my HP camera around with me.
My Sendo which cost me £50 2 years ago is far better than this £100 lump
from Motorola.
> would be prepared to pay a good price to buy one. One problems occurs
> to me though and that is my bt phone. It costs more in rental than for
> the calls we make and I don't know if I could have it taken out and
> retain my BB?
Nope, you can't, unless you got cable.
anyway, VOIP is still too new to be reliable.
In article <1127683521.147423.245080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups .com>, cphpeter@gmail.com says...
> A few more years, and you'll be looking at this entire discussion
> wondering what the heck you spent your time on :) Once upon a time I
> guess there might have been news groups discussing electricity, and
> subsequently POTS (had that been possible), but now both are just an
> outlet in the wall and that's it. :-)
>
In a few more years, we will still be paying BT for line rental.
Ofcom and Bt are in this together. they may make BT do some things, but
I think it is for appearance sake.
In article <202hj1dir5g0aribr4ph6gjjnk25kt1m0b@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
>
> We are not interested in mobiles at all but now the kids know we have
> them they will text us in this funny language they use.
A mobile phone is a tool, just as I have said above for a land line
phone. I use text very little, a friend of mine she uses text a lot, but
I tend to phone her back, it is easier.
> >
> >
> >Nope, you can't, unless you got cable.
> >anyway, VOIP is still too new to be reliable.
>
> Yes of course it will take time for this to become the norm just as
> with computers but it will come, I am sure of that.
It took 30 years for computers to become the norm if not longer, I will
be 70 years old in 30 years time if I live that long.
In article <pj1ij19jm41tt11r8vitab4iolgar9dorb@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
>
> Well yes I would like to phone back rather than fiddle with the text
> thingie but my mobile is just too expensive to use and the one in my
> car is even dearer:-(
I use O2, which is not too bad, but phoning another network is a bit
expensive, but then that is the same with all networks, apart from 3.
I know on contract you can get free minutes to any network, but then I
do not use my mobile phone enough to worry with contracts and it would
cost me more than my phone do now.
> >
> >It took 30 years for computers to become the norm if not longer, I will
> >be 70 years old in 30 years time if I live that long.
>
> Oh no. I will be 70 in 8 years time if I live that long.
I suppose we just have to keep on going until we drop.
>On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:12:23 +0100, Phil Thompson
><phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:42:54 +0100, turtill@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>I have payg orange mobile and vodafone in my car and I hate using
>>>either especially the car phone at 35p a minute.
>>
>>migrate it to https://www.easymobile.com/ and pay 15p/min to any UK
>>network ?
>
>That sounds interesting as long as connections can be made. What
>network do easymobile use please?
>pete
> >I use O2, which is not too bad, but phoning another network is a bit
> >expensive, but then that is the same with all networks, apart from 3.
>
> and easymobile
>
I dont use Easy mobile, I would not use Easy mobile.
In article <698ij1l8q8b4hb5mbcepl8f1scp16f3tmm@4ax.com>, turtill@hotmail.com says...
> I have payg orange mobile and vodafone in my car and I hate using
> either especially the car phone at 35p a minute.
vodafone is so expensive. I was with vodafone when I first started to
use a mobile phone, but I had a big row in the shop and almost shoved
the phone in a place where the manager would not like it.
I won't go with Orange because they are French.
>
> In my case it seems down right extravagant to buy more than 4 gallons
> of petrol at a time:-(
In article <27aij1logaf31msd86lc0lp49kt752436f@4ax.com>, phil.thompson@spamcop.net says...
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 11:42:54 +0100, turtill@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >I have payg orange mobile and vodafone in my car and I hate using
> >either especially the car phone at 35p a minute.
>
> migrate it to https://www.easymobile.com/ and pay 15p/min to any UK
> network ?
>
what network do they use? If it is T-mobile than forget it as their
network is a waste of time, it certianly is around here anyway. My
brother is with virgin which uses the T-mobile network, the amount of
times he had phoned me and been cut off.
In article <v24jj19of88jjus7s5e62c9m639vk7fvds@4ax.com>, "Mike @
www.zd8i.net" <Mike @ www.zd8i.net> says...
> >
> >That sounds interesting as long as connections can be made. What
> >network do easymobile use please?
> >pete
>
> T-Mobile
>
I knew it, I flaming knew it.
Re: The future of VOIP providers in the UK 
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