I am stuck inside with a ankle and bored out my brains and started having
thoughts about the future
Just wondering if anyone has any predictions for the residential VOIP in 12
months time?
My predictions :
VOIP will start to come into the mainstream like Internet did 8 years ago.
most users will just want a product which works and needs no hacking about
with port forwarding.
So people like Vonage who have advertising money behind them and offer a
simple box solution will
start to dominate.
Internet ISP who have been doing very little will get into VOIP big time,
they have customer base which they
can use and can premote better quality sound by having less latency to
servers
Internet Service Providers will start playing silly buggers with VOIP users
to ensure their VOIP solution is used
T&C clauses and degration of voip data
BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
have ADSL without a live telephone number
SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
all the potential it has had / does have and other
companies would have passed it by.
Standard SIP sevice providers turning more to hosted PBX suppliers for the
same cost/ or very low fees, voipfone/voiptalk have already started
this
<Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vm6bh1tkicd8jth46r4nsbeq3etif5t4nu@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
> <rh@nospicedhamhybrid-tech.demon.com> wrote:
>
>
>>SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have
>>lost
>>all the potential it has had / does have and other
>>companies would have passed it by.
> You are totally wrong with this statement OTHER companies HAVE passed
> Sipgate by NOW !! other companies whoever they may be provide good
> service and don't have services in beta for ever and a day .
I agree on a technical scale they were left back some time ago,
but marketshare wise sipgate still seems most poplular, at least on the
phones I sell, I think only
because they offer free geographic number. and the look of the website etc
is user friendly, compeared to
people like voiptalk.
It seems pretty obvious sipgate just took their german product and gave it
an english translation and then gave up on it.
Don't get me wrong I think sipgate is a great product, where else can you
get a better value product for incoming calls
with a geographic number, but they had the potential to be the market leader
and they are just letting slip away
Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
> <rh@nospicedhamhybrid-tech.demon.com> wrote:
>
>
> >SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
> >all the potential it has had / does have and other
> >companies would have passed it by.
> You are totally wrong with this statement OTHER companies HAVE passed
> Sipgate by NOW !! other companies whoever they may be provide good
> service and don't have services in beta for ever and a day .
Wow that was very reserved dex well done :-) and I do agree with you
100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
route although I think there will be a much higher uptake as and when
naked DSL is introduced and already there is the likes of http://www.itspa.org.uk/ who deal with regulatory issues surrounding
voip and bt plan to have an entire ip based network by 2009
>
> VOIP will start to come into the mainstream like Internet did 8 years ago.
> most users will just want a product which works and needs no hacking about
> with port forwarding.
> So people like Vonage who have advertising money behind them and offer a
> simple box solution will
> start to dominate.
>
I agree, But expect in the new couple of years
> Internet ISP who have been doing very little will get into VOIP big time,
> they have customer base which they
> can use and can premote better quality sound by having less latency to
> servers
>
They allready are, But I think very soon all ISPs will be offering VOIP
> Internet Service Providers will start playing silly buggers with VOIP
users
> to ensure their VOIP solution is used
> T&C clauses and degration of voip data
>
Yep, Allready happening over the pond
> BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability
to
> have ADSL without a live telephone number
>
Very wrong on this one, BT will be a driving force behind it, Remeber they
launched one of the first mainstream voip offerings
> SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have
lost
> all the potential it has had / does have and other
> companies would have passed it by.
Sipgate are allready passed by and in a few years will be gone, as will most
of the other small voip companies as the ISPs take over.
But if Sipgate do hang on VM will be in Beta 2 , Ie, Emails now have no text
and the messages are in French. But they are working on it (honest)
>
> Standard SIP sevice providers turning more to hosted PBX suppliers for the
> same cost/ or very low fees, voipfone/voiptalk have already started
> this
>
I agree , The mainstream PBX makers will be launching CO systems to provide
this soon.
> bickering still occuring on uk.telecome.voip
>
Nah
Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On 1 Sep 2005 05:26:24 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
> <mathew.j.curtis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Wow that was very reserved dex well done :-) and I do agree with you
> >100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
> >more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
> >route
> I would think if NTL and Telewest where to spend a bit/lot of money
> and had the same coverage that BT has with ADSL then they could easily
> knock BT completely out of residential line provision, the way with
> VOIP is not having to pay BT for line rental at all and having an
> Internet and phone service combined for the price of a broadband
> connection . Has it is shortly going to be possible to have a 10 Mb
> connection with TW for 35.00 a month I would think people who can
> get cable will be moving over and slinging out BT and their ADSL
> ISP's .
yep i agree i done away with bt and i am with NTL Broadband now and not
looked back
On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:41:04 +0100, "RH"
<rh@nospicedhamhybrid-tech.demon.com> wrote:
>BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
>have ADSL without a live telephone number
I don't think you're right with that part of your predictions. BT were
the first UK company to launch a VoIP service to consumers almost two
years ago. Far from not having anything to do with VoIP, BT are in the
process of converting their entire voice network to VoIP.
>On 1 Sep 2005 05:26:24 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
><mathew.j.curtis@gmail.com> wrote:
>>Wow that was very reserved dex well done :-) and I do agree with you
>>100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
>>more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
>>route
>I would think if NTL and Telewest where to spend a bit/lot of money
>and had the same coverage that BT has with ADSL then they could easily
>knock BT completely out of residential line provision, the way with
>VOIP is not having to pay BT for line rental at all and having an
>Internet and phone service combined for the price of a broadband
>connection . Has it is shortly going to be possible to have a 10 Mb
>connection with TW for 35.00 a month I would think people who can
>get cable will be moving over and slinging out BT and their ADSL
>ISP's .
I don't see how anything will change much. Most of the cost of a BT
phone line is for the provision of the physical copper pair into your
building. If you do away with that you'll still need to replace it
with something else to run an IP connection over, whether it be a
cable provided by BT or anyone else. Digging up the street to run
cables to individual buildings doesn't come cheap, whoever does it.
If by VoIP you mean literally 'voice over IP', then the short answer is
that the telcos will migrate their networks from being TDM-based to
voice over packet, i.e. the 'VoIP providers' in the UK in the future
will be the TDM providers we have now. The reason is quite prosaic -
TDM switches are getting more costly to make as they are based on old
technology. Softswitches are expensive to develop, but much cheaper to
make and use current technology.
With regard to current UK VoIP service providers, my impression is that
we are in about the same position as the US market was in 2000. At
that time, companies such as ITXC offered low-cost international calls
over the Internet. The customer base was dominated by expatriots
calling their relatives back home. The current UK market seems to
comprise those who are interested in the technology and/or those who
want cheaper phone calls, i.e. innovators and early adopters. I gather
that Vonage is now up to about 1M subscribers in the US, so this gives
an idea of how long it's taken for the VoIP market to grow there.
The challenge for the telcoms industry is to identify applications
which are going to drive deployment of a true broadband network. Given
that 7M homes in the UK have a satellite dish, do we want/need TV over
the phone line (whether it's copper or fibre)? If we have multi-MB
access to our homes, will we all buy videophones? We didn't when we
had ISDN2. Or are we going to start swapping our DVDs on-line? To sum
up, what's the golden application for mass-market broadband? If it's
TV >> Sport >> Football then why change the telephone network to do
something which Sky does already?
In article <df6pci$r15$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, rh@nospicedhamhybrid-tech.demon.com says...
> I am stuck inside with a ankle and bored out my brains and started having
> thoughts about the future
>
> Just wondering if anyone has any predictions for the residential VOIP in 12
> months time?
> My predictions :
>
> VOIP will start to come into the mainstream like Internet did 8 years ago.
> most users will just want a product which works and needs no hacking about
> with port forwarding.
> So people like Vonage who have advertising money behind them and offer a
> simple box solution will
> start to dominate.
>
> Internet ISP who have been doing very little will get into VOIP big time,
> they have customer base which they
> can use and can premote better quality sound by having less latency to
> servers
>
> Internet Service Providers will start playing silly buggers with VOIP users
> to ensure their VOIP solution is used
> T&C clauses and degration of voip data
>
> BT fightring hard againt anything to do with VOIP especially the ability to
> have ADSL without a live telephone number
>
> SIPGATE still having voicemail in beta, by this time sipgate would have lost
> all the potential it has had / does have and other
> companies would have passed it by.
>
> Standard SIP sevice providers turning more to hosted PBX suppliers for the
> same cost/ or very low fees, voipfone/voiptalk have already started
> this
>
> bickering still occuring on uk.telecome.voip
>
VOIP will be for a few people, most people will stay with the bog
standard phone line, unless they can get cable.
Until BT drops the line rental (it will never happen) it is not worth
all the hassle and cost to use VOIP.
People will use some sort of VOIP on their computer, with AIM, MSN
messenger and even Skype, but as a replacement for their normal
telephone system, I don't think so.
It is not cost affective and people will only do things if it is going
to cost them less money or they are going to get something out of it.
If you want extra lines, or you don't pay a line rental, then VOIP will
be ideal, but no VOIP supplier are going to Dominate, even if Dex thinks
thay are.
In article <1125577584.898934.195320@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups .com>, mathew.j.curtis@gmail.com says...
> Wow that was very reserved dex well done :-) and I do agree with you
> 100% there is a small handful of very good voip providers and more and
> more people seem to be doing away with landlines and going the voip
> route although I think there will be a much higher uptake as and when
> naked DSL is introduced and already there is the likes of
> http://www.itspa.org.uk/ who deal with regulatory issues surrounding
> voip and bt plan to have an entire ip based network by 2009
>
BT will not get rid of their line rental, after all, someone will still
have to pay for the lines to be fixed.
I suppose we could have the system they got in the U.S.A, where no one
knows who ownes what line and pass the buck when things go wrong.
It took my cousin 2 weeks to he line fixed and cost her a fortune in
mobile phone calls to AT&T and some other company.
I know I like to get rid of BT, but I don't think we will get rid of the
line rental.
Well mebbe wires going way of telegrams and telegraph.
Got WiFi, GSM, satellite and coming soon, for next few years, WiMax.
None of them a one size fits all solution in themselves but combined
get rid of some of reasons for having wires or fibres.
Interesting that Skype has taken off as seems least elegant VOIP
solution plus really tired of seeing Ezula and Bargain Buddy, Skype
shows its heritage from Sharmann Networks developers of Kazaa.
Hadn`t heard of SIP protocol at all before started looking around at
Skype phones and discovered SIP phones that don`t need a PC running all
the time.
But Skype, Babble and now Google are getting the coverage,VOIP phones
are still off the publics radar.
In article <1125622616.815145.64040@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups. com>, ledlight@gmail.com says...
> Well mebbe wires going way of telegrams and telegraph.
>
Not for a long time.
> Got WiFi, GSM, satellite and coming soon, for next few years, WiMax.
> None of them a one size fits all solution in themselves but combined
> get rid of some of reasons for having wires or fibres.
wi-fi have got problems with distance, GSM is too expensive and also got
blackspots. Satellite hyas too much of a delay and most of the time it
is only one way, so you still need a phone line to transmitt the data.
>
> Interesting that Skype has taken off as seems least elegant VOIP
> solution plus really tired of seeing Ezula and Bargain Buddy, Skype
> shows its heritage from Sharmann Networks developers of Kazaa.
>
skype is easy to use and do not require any other hardware, I did not
see Barain buddy or Ezula with Skype.
Hadn`t heard of SIP protocol at all before started looking around at
> Skype phones and discovered SIP phones that don`t need a PC running all
> the time.
>
> But Skype, Babble and now Google are getting the coverage,VOIP phones
> are still off the publics radar.
Only minority of the public will bother with VOIP.
In article <o8ufh1hfcdivu7kc09g8fvfte8j4bl03fi@4ax.com>, codvimyst@yahoo.co.uk says...
> The BT 21CN voice solution will be baseband POTS to the customer, as
> we have now, i.e. VoIP only as far as the MSAN for the majority of
> lines.
>
> BT was half-hearted with BBV in 2003 and IMHO still is. It is hardly
> leading the end-end VoIP services market. It's possible that BT could
> get to the grand PSTN switch-off date and find that a sizeable
> proportion of its former customer base has deserted it along the way,
> especially when 'naked DSL' comes along in the interim.
>
>
I don't know where you get this idea that we are going to have naked
DSL. Since most lines in this country are owned by BT, they are not
going to do away with their line rental as it is easy money.
Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:05:10 +0100, AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >I don't know where you get this idea that we are going to have naked
> >DSL. Since most lines in this country are owned by BT, they are not
> >going to do away with their line rental as it is easy money.
> It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all they
> if adsl can be split from the line
> in your house it can be spilt at the exchange
xDSL is already spilt out at the exchange, it is combined again over
your loop
I Agree that no-one should be forced to accept telephone service in
order to get xDSL
I also think that low-cost services from B.T. should not bar anyone
from getting access to Broadband.
JP
and I think before long
> Offcom will force BT to do this and also charge a very small line
> rental if all you need is adsl .
Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:05:10 +0100, AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>I don't know where you get this idea that we are going to have naked
>>DSL. Since most lines in this country are owned by BT, they are not
>>going to do away with their line rental as it is easy money.
>
> It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all they
> need it for is an ADSL connection, if adsl can be split from the line
> in your house it can be spilt at the exchange and I think before long
> Offcom will force BT to do this and also charge a very small line
> rental if all you need is adsl .
What makes you think such a line rental would be "very small"? They've
still got to cover the cost of maintain the network.
Don't get me wrnog, I'd love it if they did do it.
AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
> Satellite hyas too much of a delay and most of the time it is only
> one way, so you still need a phone line to transmitt the data.
Only if the satellite is in geostationary orbit. Iridium uses a large
number of near-earth satellites some 450 miles above the Earth. The
back of a fagpacket calculation suggests that this contributes a delay
of just 4ms.
[...]
> skype is easy to use and do not require any other hardware, I did
> not see Barain buddy or Ezula with Skype.
My main objection to Skype is that it *does* require hardware - a PC.
Leaving that running 24/7 so you can receive calls will cost you 60
quid a year or so just in electricity. So much for it being free.
My SPA-2000 doesn't use anything like that much juice, allows me to
leave my desk (with the handy addition of a cheap DECT phone) and
isn't a magnet for every worm and virus out there.
I do have a Skype account, but find that call quality isn't very good,
because people are using lash-ups of PC speakers and cheap
omnidirectional mics instadl of properly-designed telephone handsets.
What usually seems to happen is that initial contact will be made over
Skype, and then the call switched to PSTN when the drop-outs or echo
get too irritating.
[...]
> Only minority of the public will bother with VOIP.
The usual test as to whether technology has gone mainstream is when my
mostly computer-ignorant 60 year old mother starts asking me about it.
She doesn't have a computer or broadband, but it seems that quite a
few relatives are now using VoIP-to-PSTN gateways to call her from all
over the world.
That it doesn't sound naff suggests that it's something other than
Skype :)
--
PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key
/:.*posting.google.com.*/HX-Trace:+j
Local loop lines, so called last mile, are majorly BT, whole lot of
other trunk fibre owners down the side of railways, motorways , canal
tow paths and wrapped round powerlines.
Wireless connections could possibly start filling in that last mile.
Mebbe its one way of getting a return on those 3G licence costs ;-)
> It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all they
> need it for is an ADSL connection, if adsl can be split from the line
Yes, I kind of agree, but then even lines need replacing or fixing.
> in your house it can be spilt at the exchange and I think before long
> Offcom will force BT to do this and also charge a very small line
> rental if all you need is adsl .
>
Offcom won't do a thing, they are B.T friends, come to think of it they
are everyones friend, apart from the public.
Maybe in years to come it will happen, but I can't see it happening
anytime soon. It would be nice if I was wrong.
In article <4318f349$0$32690$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk says...
> <Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
> > It is wrong for BT to force someone to have a phone line when all
> > they need it for is an ADSL connection,
>
> If you don't have a phone line, how on earth are BT supposed to
> deliver ADSL? RFC1149 avian carrier? Telepathy?
>
>
Telepathy, now that is a good diea, why would we want broadband at all,
if we could do that?
In article <4318f278$0$32690$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk>, abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk says...
> AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
> > Satellite hyas too much of a delay and most of the time it is only
> > one way, so you still need a phone line to transmitt the data.
>
> Only if the satellite is in geostationary orbit. Iridium uses a large
> number of near-earth satellites some 450 miles above the Earth. The
> back of a fagpacket calculation suggests that this contributes a delay
> of just 4ms.
About price? I know someone who have satellite broadband and it costs a
fortune, they are getting rid of it soon, because Bt have now decided
that they will put ADSL into the village.
> [...]
> My main objection to Skype is that it *does* require hardware - a PC.
> Leaving that running 24/7 so you can receive calls will cost you 60
> quid a year or so just in electricity. So much for it being free.
My computer is on 24/7 and it don't cost me £60 a year, in fact I got 2
computers on 24/7 and it don't cost me £60 a year.
But I do know what you mean about needing a computer, but most people
who use Skype, do not use it as their main phone.
I use the audio part on MSN messenger to chat with people in other
countries, but only because it is free. which you will find out is what
most people use Skype for, I doubt very much if many people use Skype
out.
>
> My SPA-2000 doesn't use anything like that much juice, allows me to
> leave my desk (with the handy addition of a cheap DECT phone) and
> isn't a magnet for every worm and virus out there.
But not everyone wants to go to that trouble just to have cheaper calls
to other countries, which is what people will use Skype for most of the
time. TBH, I have been looking at some of the call costs on these VOIP
services and most of them are more expensive than what my landline phone
is. Apart from maybe Vonage, because you pay a fixed cost, but that
would not pay people who uses a BT line.
>
> I do have a Skype account, but find that call quality isn't very good,
> because people are using lash-ups of PC speakers and cheap
> omnidirectional mics instadl of properly-designed telephone handsets.
Sometimes the cheaper Mics are better for thisa sort of thing, than one
you pay a lot of money for. I have got a panasonic microphone, which
cost me nearly £100 last year, which I use for the video camera, I tried
that on MSN once and it was awful, I stuck in my old Trust Microphone,
which is about 7 years old and cost me a tenner and it works great. I
always use head phones. I am thinking about getting a USB
microphone/headset, they are suppose to be pretty good, for things like
that, and voice recognition.
The cheap trust mic also works ok in the camera, but it souls a bit
hollow, due to it being cheap plastic I suppose.
But I do understand where you are coming from, a mate of mine has a
cheap microphone which is naff, very quiet and really horrid sound.
We play quake 3 only the net and we put MSN on in the back ground, so we
can talk to each other, I works well.
Well it did work well, he is changing his ISP, so is only on dial up at
the moment, so the games are off, until next week.
> What usually seems to happen is that initial contact will be made over
> Skype, and then the call switched to PSTN when the drop-outs or echo
> get too irritating.
I talk to my cousin in the states using Skype, no dropout at all. In
fact sometimes it is clearer than my normal phone. MSN is better mind
you and we do use MSN more than Skype.
>
> [...]
> > Only minority of the public will bother with VOIP.
>
> The usual test as to whether technology has gone mainstream is when my
> mostly computer-ignorant 60 year old mother starts asking me about it.
> She doesn't have a computer or broadband, but it seems that quite a
> few relatives are now using VoIP-to-PSTN gateways to call her from all
> over the world.
People ask me about it, but since everyone here is on a BT line, they
decide that it is not worth it, since they would not be gaining. which
is going to be the problem.
I do know two people who are thinking about it.
One of them because she is at uni and they broadband and it would be
cheap to call her parents and friends, instead of using the mobile.
The other person is looking at it for a separate fax line, if that can
be done. He was using ISdn until a few weeks back, but have now gone
back a single line as he have had ADSL installed, so have lost a line.
>
> That it doesn't sound naff suggests that it's something other than
> Skype :)
>
But Skype is not really the same thing.
I like the idea of VOIP, but costs is what put me off. If I did not have
the BT line, then I would use VOIP, the only thing that worries me is
reliability, since the internet is not 100%, come to think of it, the
Internet is not even 60%. But things are getting better.
I also thing the heavens are going to open up, because it have gone
really dark here. OH well, I did not really want to cut those trees down
today anyway.
Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 00:35:58 +0100, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>What makes you think such a line rental would be "very small"? They've
>>still got to cover the cost of maintain the network.
>
> Your comments above could also apply to LUS but LUS is here and is
> being allowed by BT I would be happy to be paying the same line rental
> has lus customers are paying there is basically no difference in
> usage.
Do you think that BT make LUS available through choice?
"UKHierarchy" <UK@Hierarchy.uk> wrote in message
news:GSfSe.1019$7p1.870@newsfe7-win.ntli.net
> what about the potential risk of fir dex, why do you
> need 2 pcs just out of curiosity and also how much is
> your averag monthly electric bill ?
The fire risk from a PC is relatively small. The biggest risk is from the
monitor, although that is less now that flat screens are becoming common.
I once had an old CRT monitor burst into flames in front of my eyes, that
plug got pulled out pretty quick..!!
My systems are usually on 24 hours, I just switch the screens off if I'm
going to be away for any length of time. The PC's themselves only get
switched off if I'm going way on holiday for more than 2 or 3 days.
AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote:
> abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk wrote:
[...]
>> Only if the satellite is in geostationary orbit. Iridium uses a
>> large number of near-earth satellites some 450 miles above the
>> Earth. The back of a fagpacket calculation suggests that this
>> contributes a delay of just 4ms.
> About price? I know someone who have satellite broadband and it
> costs a fortune, they are getting rid of it soon, because Bt have
> now decided that they will put ADSL into the village.
Iridium is a propietary mobile phone system, not a broadband system.
Similar technology *could* be used to provide broadband, but Iridium
concentrate more on voice.
[...]
>> My main objection to Skype is that it *does* require hardware - a
>> PC. Leaving that running 24/7 so you can receive calls will cost
>> you 60 quid a year or so just in electricity. So much for it being
>> free.
> My computer is on 24/7 and it don't cost me £60 a year, in fact I
> got 2 computers on 24/7 and it don't cost me £60 a year.
Are you sure of that?
I've put a power meter on various of my machines. The power
consumption varies on all sorts of factors, but the readings varied
between 90-180W at idle. The newer the machine, the more power it
tends to draw.
Let's take 120W as a reasonable average. So over an hour, it will
consume 0.12kWh of energy. Multiply by 24 and 365.25 and you discover
that it will consume 1052kWh over a year.
The cost per kWh varies depending on your supplier and tariff, but it
averages around 6p/kWh. 1052kWh * 0.05p/kWh = 6312p, or slightly over
60 quid.
[...]
>> My SPA-2000 doesn't use anything like that much juice, allows me to
>> leave my desk (with the handy addition of a cheap DECT phone) and
>> isn't a magnet for every worm and virus out there.
> But not everyone wants to go to that trouble just to have cheaper
> calls to other countries, which is what people will use Skype for
> most of the time.
Strange. I took one look at X-Lite and found it lacking, and a pain to
use. The Sipura mostly just works.
> TBH, I have been looking at some of the call costs on these VOIP
> services and most of them are more expensive than what my landline
> phone is. Apart from maybe Vonage, because you pay a fixed cost, but
> that would not pay people who uses a BT line.
Well, yes, you don't actually save any money on the VoIP services
offered to consumers. That end of the market seems to be mostly
chancers preying on customers who have heard that "VoIP is cheap" and
don't look too closely at the prices.
Check out Gradwell's price list for a WTF? moment. Remember that you
need to add VAT on top. (Quoting ex-VAT prices to consumers? Naughty,
naughty...)
--
Just last week, someone called every morning to speak to President Gore. By
Friday, the operator was flustered, and finally snapped, "You call every day
asking that, and every day I tell you that Mr. Gore lost the election. Why?"
"I just like hearing that. It's a great start for the day!"
YES AGREED, BUT THEIR HAVE BEEN CASES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE NOT HAD A BILL FOR
YEARS , LITERALLY !!! and then they get presented with a bill for thousands,
i would keep an eye on it if i were you dex, i mean their was a case i red
about where some old granny died because she got a bill for over 3k after
the company in question, i think it was npower, hadnt sent hera bill for 5
years
--
----
"Sometimes I worry about being a success in a mediocre world."
hmm in limbo huh, universal utilities are a well known sales agency working
on behalf of various utilities companies and thwy have regularly been known
to "switch" customers all over the shop, the interesting thing is looking at
their accounts they must make a fat profit out of it because theyre make
more profit year on year, they employ 16 year old sales people as well which
is beyond belief.
--
----
"Sometimes I worry about being a success in a mediocre world."
UKHierarchy wrote:
> i run several utility accounts online with powergen and if anything, they
> send more bills than they should
>
Can you actually see your bills? I haven't been able to since May! I get
an error message when I try to log in (and yes it is the correct user
name and password) :)
The future of VOIP providers in the UK 
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