-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VoIP has advanced Internet-based telephony to a viable solution, piquing
the interest of companies small and large. Developed from real-world
experience by a senior developer, O'Reilly's "Switching to VoIP" provides
solutions for the most common VoIP migration challenges.
If you're a network professional who is migrating from a traditional
telephony system to a modern, feature-rich network, this book is a
must-have. You'll discover the strengths and weaknesses of
circuit-switched and packet-switched networks, how VoIP systems impact
network infrastructure, as well as solutions for common challenges
involved with IP voice migrations. Among the challenges discussed and
projects presented:
-building a softPBX
-configuring IP phones
-ensuring quality of service
-scalability
-standards-compliance
-topological considerations
-coordinating a complete system ?switchover?
-migrating applications like voicemail and directory services
-retro-interfacing to traditional telephony
-supporting mobile users
-security and survivability
-dealing with the challenges of NAT
You'll learn how to build an IP-based or legacy-compatible phone system
and voicemail system complete with e-mail integration while becoming
familiar with VoIP protocols and devices. "Switching to VoIP" remains
vendor-neutral and advocates standards, not brands. If VoIP has your
attention, this book will help you build your own system, install it, and
begin making calls. It's the only thing left between you and a modern
telecom network.
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"Heimo Hetl" <trashcan@hetl.net> wrote in message
news:1h3qd74.90lbxxub6qoyN%trashcan@hetl.net
> Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> > [rest of blatant advert snipped]
> > So..?
>
> It's a decent book nonetheless. IMHO.
>
> cheers
> Heimo
Maybe, but a non-advertisement group isn't the place to advertise it..!
There are groups specifically set aside for the purpose, this isn't one of
them.
> So..?
>
> Ivor
>
Well, These are some of the best "technical" books avalible. and it is of
interest to anyone who has a tecnical interest in deploying voip solutions.
You may be happy with a ATA lashed to a 15+ year old analog PBX but some
people here are deploying comercial solutions and this will a usefull
referance book.
This wasnt an advert, Dave just forwarded an email he had received.
If you keep on like this it will be just you left here feeding any troll who
wanders by.
"Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
news:11jsggqik3hfj35@corp.supernews.com
[snip]
> This wasnt an advert, Dave just forwarded an email he had
> received.
It was an advert. However useful it may be, it concluded with the words
"to order your copy...." followed by a link, which is as blatant an advert
as you can get. If he had omitted this part then I wouldn't have
complained.
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3q7pniFdlh2eU1@individual.net...
>
>
> "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:11jsggqik3hfj35@corp.supernews.com
>
> [snip]
>
> > This wasnt an advert, Dave just forwarded an email he had
> > received.
>
> It was an advert. However useful it may be, it concluded with the words
> "to order your copy...." followed by a link, which is as blatant an advert
> as you can get. If he had omitted this part then I wouldn't have
> complained.
>
> Ivor
>
What ever, Just dont forget to turn the lights off when you leave....
"Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
news:11jtgopf4o01g31@corp.supernews.com
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:3q7pniFdlh2eU1@individual.net...
> >
> >
> > "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:11jsggqik3hfj35@corp.supernews.com
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > This wasnt an advert, Dave just forwarded an email he
> > > had received.
> >
> > It was an advert. However useful it may be, it
> > concluded with the words "to order your copy...."
> > followed by a link, which is as blatant an advert as
> > you can get. If he had omitted this part then I
> > wouldn't have complained.
> >
> > Ivor
> >
> What ever, Just dont forget to turn the lights off when
> you leave....
>
> Ian
Read the group charter. If a few more people did so we wouldn't be having
this conversation.
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3q8068Fdlmu0U1@individual.net...
>
>
> "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:11jtgopf4o01g31@corp.supernews.com
> > "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:3q7pniFdlh2eU1@individual.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
> > > news:11jsggqik3hfj35@corp.supernews.com
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > > This wasnt an advert, Dave just forwarded an email he
> > > > had received.
> > >
> > > It was an advert. However useful it may be, it
> > > concluded with the words "to order your copy...."
> > > followed by a link, which is as blatant an advert as
> > > you can get. If he had omitted this part then I
> > > wouldn't have complained.
> > >
> > > Ivor
> > >
> > What ever, Just dont forget to turn the lights off when
> > you leave....
> >
> > Ian
>
> Read the group charter. If a few more people did so we wouldn't be having
> this conversation.
>
> Ivor
OK you asked for this.
For other users of the group here follows emails that Ivor sent to me when I
rewrote the charter for him:-
"Hi Ian,
Many thanks for your help with the charter etc. and the chat last night. I
have resubmitted the charter etc. to Chris at Control with almost your
exact wording, I hope you don't mind..!
Let's see how things go from here on.
Ivor"
And
"
Hi Ian,
Thanks for the message. I didn't really intend this to be a purely
technical group, indeed I am a very non-technical person; the majority I
think don't have a clue what FoIP, VOB and VON are, I certainly had to
look them up..! VoIP however is a commonly understood term, hence the
choice of name."
"
So Ivor I havent just READ the Charter , I (re)wrote it
This is my final post here unless I see things improve to a very large
degree.
"Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
news:11jtm2prbh4n2e5@corp.supernews.com
[snip]
> So Ivor I havent just READ the Charter , I (re)wrote it
>
> This is my final post here unless I see things improve to
> a very large degree.
>
> TTFN Ian
Sorry Ian, I didn't recognise the name. But it's still an advert if it
tries to sell something, which "to place your order..." definitely does.
On Sat, 1 Oct 2005 19:41:30 +0100, "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk>
wrote:
>
>"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>news:3q8068Fdlmu0U1@individual.net...
>>
>>
>> "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:11jtgopf4o01g31@corp.supernews.com
>> > "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:3q7pniFdlh2eU1@individual.net...
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > "Ian" <spam"AT"bathfordhill.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > > news:11jsggqik3hfj35@corp.supernews.com
>> > >
>> > > [snip]
>> > >
>> > > > This wasnt an advert, Dave just forwarded an email he
>> > > > had received.
>> > >
>> > > It was an advert. However useful it may be, it
>> > > concluded with the words "to order your copy...."
>> > > followed by a link, which is as blatant an advert as
>> > > you can get. If he had omitted this part then I
>> > > wouldn't have complained.
>> > >
>> > > Ivor
>> > >
>> > What ever, Just dont forget to turn the lights off when
>> > you leave....
>> >
>> > Ian
>>
>> Read the group charter. If a few more people did so we wouldn't be having
>> this conversation.
>>
>> Ivor
>OK you asked for this.
>
>For other users of the group here follows emails that Ivor sent to me when I
>rewrote the charter for him:-
>"Hi Ian,
>
>Many thanks for your help with the charter etc. and the chat last night. I
>
>have resubmitted the charter etc. to Chris at Control with almost your
>
>exact wording, I hope you don't mind..!
>
>Let's see how things go from here on.
>
>Ivor"
>
>And
>
>"
>
>Hi Ian,
>
>Thanks for the message. I didn't really intend this to be a purely
>
>technical group, indeed I am a very non-technical person; the majority I
>
>think don't have a clue what FoIP, VOB and VON are, I certainly had to
>
>look them up..! VoIP however is a commonly understood term, hence the
>
>choice of name."
>
>"
>
>So Ivor I havent just READ the Charter , I (re)wrote it
>
>This is my final post here unless I see things improve to a very large
>degree.
>
>TTFN Ian
>
Unless there is something I have missed I can't see how this could
possibly have been posted with the intention of it being an advert.
This is the O'Reilly web site. How could the poster hope to gain from
a sale from that site? As far as inclusion of the URL is concerned,
well, this is useful in this case.
Further, such a posting is of interest to many who have a technical
interest in VOIP.
It is a very diffrerent situation when there is a
reseller's/associate's link or the poster owns the web site.
Even so, a SINGLE posting, simply informing people of the existence
of a NEW site I would deem to be OK providing it was 'low key' and
didn't advertise anything specific.
To try to put this in context. The BBC does not carry adverts but they
may do a book review or mention a web site/company that people might
find of interest. This might even be one where the site does make a
monetary gain but this is not the original intention for its
inclusion.
Ivor Jones wrote:
> "Heimo Hetl" <trashcan@hetl.net> wrote in message
> news:1h3qd74.90lbxxub6qoyN%trashcan@hetl.net
>
>>Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>[rest of blatant advert snipped]
>>>So..?
>>
>>It's a decent book nonetheless. IMHO.
>>
>>cheers
>>Heimo
>
>
> Maybe, but a non-advertisement group isn't the place to advertise it..!
> There are groups specifically set aside for the purpose, this isn't one of
> them.
>
> Ivor
>
>
Oh Ivor, why be like that? I am in no way affiliated with the producers
of this book. O'Reilly's books are well known for being the gospel of
technology!
Surely the posts on Dixon's new VOIP service is a "blatant advert"?
"davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
news:dZednZqnbLtgeKPeRVnyiw@pipex.net
[snip]
> Oh Ivor, why be like that? I am in no way affiliated
> with the producers of this book. O'Reilly's books are
> well known for being the gospel of technology!
>
> Surely the posts on Dixon's new VOIP service is a
> "blatant advert"?
The difference is that the posts about that don't include a link to order
the service. Your original post included the words "to order your
copy...." followed by a link to the relevant site.
If you'd removed that part and just included the information it would have
been different. That's the difference between a recommendation and an
advert.
No offence meant, but the charter of this group is clear.
"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jcntj1decc8jgu4jofai4r9193jmvghh0p@4ax.com
[snip]
> Unless there is something I have missed I can't see how
> this could possibly have been posted with the intention
> of it being an advert. This is the O'Reilly web site.
> How could the poster hope to gain from a sale from that
> site? As far as inclusion of the URL is concerned, well,
> this is useful in this case.
The words "to order your copy..." were included. That was the part that
made it an advert. If that had been omitted I wouldn't have said anything.
Ivor Jones wrote:
> "davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:dZednZqnbLtgeKPeRVnyiw@pipex.net
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>Oh Ivor, why be like that? I am in no way affiliated
>>with the producers of this book. O'Reilly's books are
>>well known for being the gospel of technology!
>>
>>Surely the posts on Dixon's new VOIP service is a
>>"blatant advert"?
>
>
> The difference is that the posts about that don't include a link to order
> the service. Your original post included the words "to order your
> copy...." followed by a link to the relevant site.
>
> If you'd removed that part and just included the information it would have
> been different. That's the difference between a recommendation and an
> advert.
>
> No offence meant, but the charter of this group is clear.
>
> All the best,
>
> Ivor
>
>
Ivor, I'm sorry but i do take offence. Going by your definition of the
charter, why was your post below acceptable?
<Quote>
Re: I'm getting rid of my phone: advice needed for alternative
"At the risk of getting blasted by the group trolls, if you want a
system to try out which is free to set up and use, then try www.sipgate.co.uk - you get a free geographic phone number for incoming
calls, you can call other Sipgate users and 0800 numbers free, you only
need to pay if you want to call ordinary public phone numbers, for this
you add credit like Skype or a PAYG mobile."
</Quote>
The above is clearly advertising a service - an advertless
recommendation wouldn't advise the OP to try it, if you'd just stated
that you use it and are happy with it - then it would be a recommendation.
The charter, http://www.usenet.org.uk/uk.telecom.voip.html, is not clear
.. Usenet AFAIK do not have a formal definition of an advertisement.
Use net do state that, "short and discrete announcements of products
truly relevant to a particular group can be quite useful". Was the
product relevant?
"If you have a product or a message that is specifically related to a
particular Usenet newsgroup, and you want to let people know about it,
it's *usually* all right to post *one* notice about it.
Note the word "notice." A notice is a brief mention of the product with
information about how interested persons can find out more. It's not a
sales pitch. It's not an advertisement. It's not a "BUY BUY BUY" sort of
message. It's a notice. "
</Quote>
So by my understanding usenet believe it is acceptable, why don't you?
"davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
news:RsSdnWH3UdoMbqPenZ2dnUVZ8qidnZ2d@pipex.net
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > "davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
> > news:dZednZqnbLtgeKPeRVnyiw@pipex.net
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >
> > > Oh Ivor, why be like that? I am in no way affiliated
> > > with the producers of this book. O'Reilly's books are
> > > well known for being the gospel of technology!
> > >
> > > Surely the posts on Dixon's new VOIP service is a
> > > "blatant advert"?
> >
> >
> > The difference is that the posts about that don't
> > include a link to order the service. Your original post
> > included the words "to order your copy...." followed by
> > a link to the relevant site. If you'd removed that part and just
> > included the
> > information it would have been different. That's the
> > difference between a recommendation and an advert.
> >
> > No offence meant, but the charter of this group is
> > clear. All the best,
> >
> > Ivor
> >
> >
>
> Ivor, I'm sorry but i do take offence. Going by your
> definition of the charter, why was your post below
> acceptable?
> <Quote>
> Re: I'm getting rid of my phone: advice needed for
> alternative "At the risk of getting blasted by the group
> trolls, if you want a system to try out which is free to set up and use,
> then
> try www.sipgate.co.uk - you get a free geographic phone
> number for incoming calls, you can call other Sipgate
> users and 0800 numbers free, you only need to pay if you
> want to call ordinary public phone numbers, for this you
> add credit like Skype or a PAYG mobile." </Quote>
>
> The above is clearly advertising a service - an advertless
> recommendation wouldn't advise the OP to try it, if you'd
> just stated that you use it and are happy with it - then
> it would be a recommendation.
No, because nobody is getting any direct revenue as a result - there isn't
a charge, unless you want to use the PSTN; the system is free to try. With
respect, your original post included the words "to order your copy...."
which was the defining part.
Anyway I don't propose to labour the point, we disagree and I doubt I will
persuade you otherwise.
Ivor if you didnt like the post their is no need to flog it to death
now is their with your clear dislike for the post. Simple thing would
have been to just delete the post instead of banging on about it.
You remind me of Mrs Merton on itv a few years ago--now she liked a
"GOOD DEBATE" just as much as you do but unfortunately about the most
boring of subjects.
Ivor Jones wrote:
> "davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:RsSdnWH3UdoMbqPenZ2dnUVZ8qidnZ2d@pipex.net
>
>>Ivor Jones wrote:
>>
>>>"davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
>>>news:dZednZqnbLtgeKPeRVnyiw@pipex.net
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Oh Ivor, why be like that? I am in no way affiliated
>>>>with the producers of this book. O'Reilly's books are
>>>>well known for being the gospel of technology!
>>>>
>>>>Surely the posts on Dixon's new VOIP service is a
>>>>"blatant advert"?
>>>
>>>
>>>The difference is that the posts about that don't
>>>include a link to order the service. Your original post
>>>included the words "to order your copy...." followed by
>>>a link to the relevant site. If you'd removed that part and just
>>>included the
>>>information it would have been different. That's the
>>>difference between a recommendation and an advert.
>>>
>>>No offence meant, but the charter of this group is
>>>clear. All the best,
>>>
>>>Ivor
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Ivor, I'm sorry but i do take offence. Going by your
>>definition of the charter, why was your post below
>>acceptable?
>><Quote>
>>Re: I'm getting rid of my phone: advice needed for
>>alternative "At the risk of getting blasted by the group
>>trolls, if you want a system to try out which is free to set up and use,
>>then
>>try www.sipgate.co.uk - you get a free geographic phone
>>number for incoming calls, you can call other Sipgate
>>users and 0800 numbers free, you only need to pay if you
>>want to call ordinary public phone numbers, for this you
>>add credit like Skype or a PAYG mobile." </Quote>
>>
>>The above is clearly advertising a service - an advertless
>>recommendation wouldn't advise the OP to try it, if you'd
>>just stated that you use it and are happy with it - then
>>it would be a recommendation.
>
>
> No, because nobody is getting any direct revenue as a result - there isn't
> a charge, unless you want to use the PSTN; the system is free to try. With
> respect, your original post included the words "to order your copy...."
> which was the defining part.
>
> Anyway I don't propose to labour the point, we disagree and I doubt I will
> persuade you otherwise.
>
> Regards
>
> Ivor
>
>
Ivor,
It is unfair to make a complaint about something and then be unwilling
to 'labour the point'.
Sipgate make money from a call terminating through there service IIRC.
So advertising sipgate does earn them revenue. Which means that it
is 'Advertising'! I am not going to make any money if O'Reilly sell
more books, O'Reilly will. Same goes for Sipgate!
The quote you have made from my original post "to order your copy...."
could be extended by stateing "To order your copy or for more
information...". So if i omited the words "order your copy" then the
whole post would have been acceptable?
Considering you are the only poster which has registerd a complaint in
this matter, i will consider the un-moderated group to agree that it is
an acceptable posting. So, if i find another service/product that i
feel will interest the group i will post such. If you don't like this -
then complain to my ISP!
"davew" <daviey.walker*SPAM*virgin.net> wrote in message
news:WLmdnSugW75UnKLeRVnyrA@pipex.net
> Ivor,
>
> It is unfair to make a complaint about something and then
> be unwilling to 'labour the point'.
Dave, I am truly sorry that I have offended you, but there really doesn't
seem to be much point carrying on this any further as it appears I am
never going to convince you.
> Sipgate make money from a call terminating through there
> service IIRC. So advertising sipgate does earn them
> revenue. Which means that it is 'Advertising'! I am not going to make
> any money if
> O'Reilly sell more books, O'Reilly will. Same goes for
> Sipgate!
With respect, it's not quite the same thing. It's like standing on a
soapbox saying "buy this" or saying to someone in the pub "I think this is
good". A recommendation isn't advertising.
> The quote you have made from my original post "to order
> your copy...." could be extended by stateing "To order
> your copy or for more information...". So if i omited
> the words "order your copy" then the whole post would
> have been acceptable?
Yes, as I have said several times. Then it would have merely been a
recommendation. Once someone got to the site, they could decide if they
wanted to buy the item or not.
> Considering you are the only poster which has registerd a
> complaint in this matter, i will consider the
> un-moderated group to agree that it is an acceptable
> posting. So, if i find another service/product that i
> feel will interest the group i will post such. If you
> don't like this - then complain to my ISP!
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, as I hope you will accept that I
am. Once again I am sorry if I upset you. I sincerely hope it won't come
to getting ISP's involved.
Fwd: Switching to VoIP--O'Reilly's latest release 
Linear Mode
