got telewest b/b - want to do voip

hi everyone

I have telewest b/b (4meg) and as I am a light phone user would like to
goto voip and do away with the high telewest line rental/ high call
charges etc. most of my calls are national/local with occasional
mobiles.

I have played around with skype and tesco packages , but I now need to
know, what are the options for a voip service when the PC is off. Do i
have to buy a draytek router, or are there any alternatives, what
hardware would they require and what are the charges ?

Ian

ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
>
> I have played around with skype and tesco packages , but I now need to
> know, what are the options for a voip service when the PC is off. Do i
> have to buy a draytek router, or are there any alternatives, what
> hardware would they require and what are the charges ?

one option would be to get an IAX phone or an IAX ATA to use with the
Tesco service.

Yuo would plug ethernet from these into a router on your cable service.

Phil

<ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1162133772.508394.218250@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com
> hi everyone
>
> I have telewest b/b (4meg) and as I am a light phone user
> would like to goto voip and do away with the high
> telewest line rental/ high call charges etc. most of my
> calls are national/local with occasional mobiles.
>
> I have played around with skype and tesco packages , but
> I now need to know, what are the options for a voip
> service when the PC is off. Do i have to buy a draytek
> router, or are there any alternatives, what hardware
> would they require and what are the charges ?
>
> Ian

How long is a piece of string..?! There are many providers with as many
charging schemes and there are an equally large number of hardware
devices.

Personally, I use www.sipgate.co.uk and www.gradwell.co.uk but there are
oodles of others which someone will be along shortly to tell you about..!
Regarding hardware, my personal recommendation is the Fritz!Box range from
AVM - www.avm.de/en


Ivor

"PhilT" <newsnet@gmail.com> wrote in message
> one option would be to get an IAX phone or an IAX ATA to use with the
> Tesco service.

How much are these, these days?

Perhaps the OP could also consider a device such as a Linksys/Sipura
SPA1001..?

They're a reasonable price here
http://www.broadbandstuff.co.uk/prod...e4388fa32106b2
however, I am not sure if they're locked to Orbtalk or not......also,
there's a less than glowing review on the site (about bbstuff that is, not
the SPA).

basically, it seems that I am looking at both a router, and some kind
of adapter if i wish to maintain my present handset. Am I correct ?

jeez this is complex

Ivor Jones wrote:
> <ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1162133772.508394.218250@b28g2000cwb.googlegr oups.com
> > hi everyone
> >
> > I have telewest b/b (4meg) and as I am a light phone user
> > would like to goto voip and do away with the high
> > telewest line rental/ high call charges etc. most of my
> > calls are national/local with occasional mobiles.
> >
> > I have played around with skype and tesco packages , but
> > I now need to know, what are the options for a voip
> > service when the PC is off. Do i have to buy a draytek
> > router, or are there any alternatives, what hardware
> > would they require and what are the charges ?
> >
> > Ian
>
> How long is a piece of string..?! There are many providers with as many
> charging schemes and there are an equally large number of hardware
> devices.
>
> Personally, I use www.sipgate.co.uk and www.gradwell.co.uk but there are
> oodles of others which someone will be along shortly to tell you about..!
> Regarding hardware, my personal recommendation is the Fritz!Box range from
> AVM - www.avm.de/en
>
>
> Ivor

Hi all

Ive just recently bought linksys spa2102 from broadband stuff and that
was not locked.
I use it on sipgate with a geograpical number, its plugged into a
netgear router as my set up is hard wired, no problems so far.

On 29 Oct 2006 06:56:12 -0800, ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk wrote:

>hi everyone
>
>I have telewest b/b (4meg) and as I am a light phone user would like to
>goto voip and do away with the high telewest line rental/ high call
>charges etc. most of my calls are national/local with occasional
>mobiles.
>
>I have played around with skype and tesco packages , but I now need to
>know, what are the options for a voip service when the PC is off. Do i
>have to buy a draytek router, or are there any alternatives, what
>hardware would they require and what are the charges ?
>
>Ian
I am on cable and I use VoIP alone with no landline. I am very pleased
with it and much prefer it to having a landline with BT or cable.
You don't say what equipment you have already. For example, do you
have a router with a spare output or do you just have the cable modem?
If you haven't yet purchased a modem then it is prefereable that you
look for one with QoS (Quality of Service). However, this is not
essential as, with a 4MB connection it probably, in practice, will
make little diference.
Once you have a router then you have a choice of ATAs to go at.
Personally I like the Linksys/Sipura ATAs. The advantage of these ATAs
is the way in which you can construct the dial plan.
Ivor, who posts here regularly, likes the Fritzbox - he is the expert
on that one.

The SPA-3000 is the most versatile of the Linksys/Sipura ATAs. It does
have a port for a landline connection that you won't need.
It is single VoIP line only.
The SPA-1001 has two lines but these output to ONE set of handsets.
The PAP-2 has two separate lines. (if you purchase one of these make
sure that it isn't locked to a provider and DON'T buy one second hand
as it may have been previously locked.)
As I stated earlier the SPA-3000 is the mosr versatile as it allows up
to 5 different outgoing providers but ONE incoming line.
As far as VSPs are concerned I would recommend
voip.co.uk for outgoing UK calls but also look at voipfone.co.uk
For international calls take a look at foriegn VSPs as well as UK as
they can often be much cheaper.

There is a version of the SPA-3000 that has a router built in (just
one output, for the computer, afaik). However, as it uses PPoE I am
unsure as to how well the router will work in this country. Hence my
preference to having a separate router.
b.t.w I have measured the power consumption when running a cable
modem, Netgear router, Sipura SPA-3000 and a DECT base station over a
month. The combined cost of running them comes to about £1/month - far
less than running a computer for Skype which amounts to about £5
without a monitor running.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
> basically, it seems that I am looking at both a router, and some kind
> of adapter if i wish to maintain my present handset. Am I correct ?

we don't know what you have now - a cable router or a single ethernet
connection to a PC ?

when you say "maintian my present handset" do you mean a cheap plastic
USB soundcard made to look like a phone, or a traditional telephone you
plug into a wall socket ?

If you have to buy a router one with VoIP built in may make sense
(small or zero extra cost) but it won't work with Tesco or Shype so you
need to discover other options like voip.co.uk voipfone.co.uk
voiptalk.co.uk or the less reliable IME sipgate.co.uk

Sorry, but TCP/IP networking and VoIP technology stil isn't on the
national curriculum.

Phil

all the equipment I have now is a surfboard SB4100 cable modem supplied
by Telewest which is several years old - it has a spare port - USB
"type b" I think. The other port feeds to the PC which has an ethernet
connection on the m/b.

I have a traditional phone handset with a BT extension plug (not RJ11),
as well as a E337 USB phone which came as part of the Tesco package -
and i have upgraded it with the US Robotics firmware.

what else would I need to get me up and running ?

ian


PhilT wrote:
> ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
> > basically, it seems that I am looking at both a router, and some kind
> > of adapter if i wish to maintain my present handset. Am I correct ?
>
> we don't know what you have now - a cable router or a single ethernet
> connection to a PC ?
>
> when you say "maintian my present handset" do you mean a cheap plastic
> USB soundcard made to look like a phone, or a traditional telephone you
> plug into a wall socket ?
>
> If you have to buy a router one with VoIP built in may make sense
> (small or zero extra cost) but it won't work with Tesco or Shype so you
> need to discover other options like voip.co.uk voipfone.co.uk
> voiptalk.co.uk or the less reliable IME sipgate.co.uk
>
> Sorry, but TCP/IP networking and VoIP technology stil isn't on the
> national curriculum.
>
> Phil

ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk formulated the question :
> PhilT wrote:
>> ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
>>> basically, it seems that I am looking at both a router, and some kind
>>> of adapter if i wish to maintain my present handset. Am I correct ?
>>
>> we don't know what you have now - a cable router or a single ethernet
>> connection to a PC ?
>>
>> when you say "maintian my present handset" do you mean a cheap plastic
>> USB soundcard made to look like a phone, or a traditional telephone you
>> plug into a wall socket ?
>>
>> If you have to buy a router one with VoIP built in may make sense
>> (small or zero extra cost) but it won't work with Tesco or Shype so you
>> need to discover other options like voip.co.uk voipfone.co.uk
>> voiptalk.co.uk or the less reliable IME sipgate.co.uk
>>
>> Sorry, but TCP/IP networking and VoIP technology stil isn't on the
>> national curriculum.
>>
>> Phil

> all the equipment I have now is a surfboard SB4100 cable modem supplied
> by Telewest which is several years old - it has a spare port - USB
> "type b" I think. The other port feeds to the PC which has an ethernet
> connection on the m/b.

Unless you have (or get) TW's gaming pack, you can use one or the
other, not both.

> I have a traditional phone handset with a BT extension plug (not RJ11),
> as well as a E337 USB phone which came as part of the Tesco package -
> and i have upgraded it with the US Robotics firmware.
>
> what else would I need to get me up and running ?
>
> ian
>

Well, the Fritz!Box that's been mentioned that's sold in the UK is for
ADSL, not cable.

You could look at a Sipura/linksys SPA3102 which would sit between your
modem & PC.....and sit between your landline socket (if you retain it)
& BT type handset. The connected handset would have access to both VoIP
& fixed lines.

If you choose something like a Linksys/Sipura SPA1001, a PAP2, or
SPA2002, you would need to buy a router as well (the 3102 has one built
in)

Brian A wrote:
[snip]
>
> There is a version of the SPA-3000 that has a router built in (just
> one output, for the computer, afaik). However, as it uses PPoE I am
> unsure as to how well the router will work in this country. Hence my
> preference to having a separate router.
> b.t.w I have measured the power consumption when running a cable
> modem, Netgear router, Sipura SPA-3000 and a DECT base station over a
> month. The combined cost of running them comes to about £1/month - far
> less than running a computer for Skype which amounts to about £5
> without a monitor running.
> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
> 25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
> in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
> It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
> Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

The router in the SPA3102 works fine in the UK. You just connect the
Ethernet cable out of either an ADSL modem or (as in this case) a cable
modem. The modem deals with the PPPoA/E part and the 3102 just acts as
an Ethernet router.

However, if you don't need the phone line port (which is pretty
pointless if you're getting rid of your analogue phone line) then I
reckon something like the Linksys WRTP54G. This will give you an
Ethernet router you can connect your cable modem to, two VoIP ports for
connecting analogue phones, four ethernet ports for connecting computers
etc... and also wireless networking. It costs more than an SPA-3102 but
not by a large amount, worth it for the extra features I reckon.

cheers,
Paul.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:41:42 +0000, Paul <nomailforme@polog40.org.uk>
wrote:

>Brian A wrote:
>[snip]
>>
>> There is a version of the SPA-3000 that has a router built in (just
>> one output, for the computer, afaik). However, as it uses PPoE I am
>> unsure as to how well the router will work in this country. Hence my
>> preference to having a separate router.
>> b.t.w I have measured the power consumption when running a cable
>> modem, Netgear router, Sipura SPA-3000 and a DECT base station over a
>> month. The combined cost of running them comes to about £1/month - far
>> less than running a computer for Skype which amounts to about £5
>> without a monitor running.
>> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
>> 25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
>> in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
>> It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
>> Why should we be ripped off in the UK?
>
>The router in the SPA3102 works fine in the UK. You just connect the
>Ethernet cable out of either an ADSL modem or (as in this case) a cable
>modem. The modem deals with the PPPoA/E part and the 3102 just acts as
>an Ethernet router.
I did make a post asking for info. on the 3102 working as a router
but got no responses. When I searched through the pdf for the 3102
there was no mention at all about PPoA. I did use the method you
described once with a Netgear set up where the router only catered for
PPoE. The modem had to be set to 'router' mode so I could use it on
PPoA. Unfortunately that meant the connection to the computer was
double NATed and that could cause problems.Could you tell me what
modem you are using please?
Also, I could find no reference to QoS in the 3102 pdf. Perhaps they
use a different name for it - I didn't read throughthe whole document.
>
>However, if you don't need the phone line port (which is pretty
>pointless if you're getting rid of your analogue phone line) then I
>reckon something like the Linksys WRTP54G. This will give you an
>Ethernet router you can connect your cable modem to, two VoIP ports for
>connecting analogue phones, four ethernet ports for connecting computers
>etc... and also wireless networking. It costs more than an SPA-3102 but
>not by a large amount, worth it for the extra features I reckon.
I have checked out this router before. It seems to have a few poor
reviews- easy to find if you google. It sometimes comes Vonage locked
as well so look out for that.

Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 22:57:33 GMT, Jono <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid>
wrote:

>ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk formulated the question :
>> PhilT wrote:
>>> ian@igreenwo.freeserve.co.uk wrote:
>>>> basically, it seems that I am looking at both a router, and some kind
>>>> of adapter if i wish to maintain my present handset. Am I correct ?
>>>
>>> we don't know what you have now - a cable router or a single ethernet
>>> connection to a PC ?
>>>
>>> when you say "maintian my present handset" do you mean a cheap plastic
>>> USB soundcard made to look like a phone, or a traditional telephone you
>>> plug into a wall socket ?
>>>
>>> If you have to buy a router one with VoIP built in may make sense
>>> (small or zero extra cost) but it won't work with Tesco or Shype so you
>>> need to discover other options like voip.co.uk voipfone.co.uk
>>> voiptalk.co.uk or the less reliable IME sipgate.co.uk
>>>
>>> Sorry, but TCP/IP networking and VoIP technology stil isn't on the
>>> national curriculum.
>>>
>>> Phil
>
>> all the equipment I have now is a surfboard SB4100 cable modem supplied
>> by Telewest which is several years old - it has a spare port - USB
>> "type b" I think. The other port feeds to the PC which has an ethernet
>> connection on the m/b.
>
>Unless you have (or get) TW's gaming pack, you can use one or the
>other, not both.
>
>> I have a traditional phone handset with a BT extension plug (not RJ11),
>> as well as a E337 USB phone which came as part of the Tesco package -
>> and i have upgraded it with the US Robotics firmware.
>>
>> what else would I need to get me up and running ?
>>
>> ian
>>
>
>Well, the Fritz!Box that's been mentioned that's sold in the UK is for
>ADSL, not cable.
>
>You could look at a Sipura/linksys SPA3102 which would sit between your
>modem & PC.....and sit between your landline socket (if you retain it)
>& BT type handset. The connected handset would have access to both VoIP
>& fixed lines.
>
>If you choose something like a Linksys/Sipura SPA1001, a PAP2, or
>SPA2002, you would need to buy a router as well (the 3102 has one built
>in)
Yes, I think Jono has summed it up quite well. I'd assess what you
need in terms of ethernet connections or WiFi as that could influence
your choice of product. Then I'd Google for unbiassed reviews of that
product and trawl through the groups' postings via Google. Then, when
you have decided what to buy check out prices on Froogle,
broadbandbuyer and broadbandstuff. I would be very wary of buying any
products that could have previously been locked to Vonage from Ebay
etc.

Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.ed617d6af2077dfb.48968@blueyonder.invalid

[snip]

> Well, the Fritz!Box that's been mentioned that's sold in
> the UK is for ADSL, not cable.

The latest firmware allows the internal ADSL modem to be disabled.

Personally I'm waiting for the 7170 model which is just out in Germany
(Annex B) but not yet in the UK (although hopefully soon..!) This one has
3 phone ports and 4 Ethernet ports as well as wireless (with security
enabled out of the box, unlike most other wireless products..!)

Ivor

Ivor Jones pretended :
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.ed617d6af2077dfb.48968@blueyonder.invalid
>
> [snip]
>
>> Well, the Fritz!Box that's been mentioned that's sold in
>> the UK is for ADSL, not cable.
>
> The latest firmware allows the internal ADSL modem to be disabled.

Hmm.....how many ethernet ports does it have? It would need two at
least - 1 WAN & 1 LAN. The non-wireless one appears to have but one
ethernet port.....


> Personally I'm waiting for the 7170 model which is just out in Germany (Annex
> B) but not yet in the UK (although hopefully soon..!) This one has 3 phone
> ports and 4 Ethernet ports as well as wireless (with security enabled out of
> the box, unlike most other wireless products..!)

Sounds nice - will there be a non-adsl version?

"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.f45e7d6a309c9f23.48968@blueyonder.invalid
> Ivor Jones pretended :
> > "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:mn.ed617d6af2077dfb.48968@blueyonder.invalid
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > Well, the Fritz!Box that's been mentioned that's sold
> > > in the UK is for ADSL, not cable.
> >
> > The latest firmware allows the internal ADSL modem to
> > be disabled.
>
> Hmm.....how many ethernet ports does it have? It would
> need two at least - 1 WAN & 1 LAN. The non-wireless one
> appears to have but one ethernet port.....

Yes it does (it's the one I'm currently using) but it's still possible to
disable the modem, though how you'd connect to a cable one I don't know, I
don't think it would work just plugging into a switch somehow ;-)

> > Personally I'm waiting for the 7170 model which is just
> > out in Germany (Annex B) but not yet in the UK
> > (although hopefully soon..!) This one has 3 phone ports
> > and 4 Ethernet ports as well as wireless (with security
> > enabled out of the box, unlike most other wireless
> > products..!)
>
> Sounds nice - will there be a non-adsl version?

Well the modem can be disabled and there are 4 LAN ports, but whether one
of them can be used as a WAN port I don't know. Sounds daft to be able to
switch off the modem and not be able to connect to another one, but there
you go..! I will keep an eye on things and see if I can find out.

Ivor

I use vonage and plug the adapter they provide into my old surfboard
modem provided by Telewest, then ceased my Telewest Phone line!






Brian A wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:41:42 +0000, Paul <nomailforme@polog40.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Brian A wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> There is a version of the SPA-3000 that has a router built in (just
>>> one output, for the computer, afaik). However, as it uses PPoE I am
>>> unsure as to how well the router will work in this country. Hence my
>>> preference to having a separate router.
>>> b.t.w I have measured the power consumption when running a cable
>>> modem, Netgear router, Sipura SPA-3000 and a DECT base station over a
>>> month. The combined cost of running them comes to about £1/month - far
>>> less than running a computer for Skype which amounts to about £5
>>> without a monitor running.
>>> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
>>> 25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
>>> in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
>>> It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
>>> Why should we be ripped off in the UK?
>> The router in the SPA3102 works fine in the UK. You just connect the
>> Ethernet cable out of either an ADSL modem or (as in this case) a cable
>> modem. The modem deals with the PPPoA/E part and the 3102 just acts as
>> an Ethernet router.
> I did make a post asking for info. on the 3102 working as a router
> but got no responses. When I searched through the pdf for the 3102
> there was no mention at all about PPoA. I did use the method you
> described once with a Netgear set up where the router only catered for
> PPoE. The modem had to be set to 'router' mode so I could use it on
> PPoA. Unfortunately that meant the connection to the computer was
> double NATed and that could cause problems.Could you tell me what
> modem you are using please?
> Also, I could find no reference to QoS in the 3102 pdf. Perhaps they
> use a different name for it - I didn't read throughthe whole document.
>> However, if you don't need the phone line port (which is pretty
>> pointless if you're getting rid of your analogue phone line) then I
>> reckon something like the Linksys WRTP54G. This will give you an
>> Ethernet router you can connect your cable modem to, two VoIP ports for
>> connecting analogue phones, four ethernet ports for connecting computers
>> etc... and also wireless networking. It costs more than an SPA-3102 but
>> not by a large amount, worth it for the extra features I reckon.
> I have checked out this router before. It seems to have a few poor
> reviews- easy to find if you google. It sometimes comes Vonage locked
> as well so look out for that.
>
> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
> 25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
> in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
> It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
> Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

"bob garbutt" <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qiJ1h.71725$3x1.57728@fe1.news.blueyonder.co. uk
> I use vonage and plug the adapter they provide into my
> old surfboard modem provided by Telewest, then ceased my
> Telewest Phone line!

Fine if you can live with their extortionate costs.

Ivor
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?

Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
> "bob garbutt" <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:qiJ1h.71725$3x1.57728@fe1.news.blueyonder.co. uk
>> I use vonage and plug the adapter they provide into my
>> old surfboard modem provided by Telewest, then ceased my
>> Telewest Phone line!
>
> Fine if you can live with their extortionate costs.
>
> Ivor


Yeah, can never understand why people pay so much.

<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:jo6fk252nssnvrp4csg6h02cd5rlc988hb@4ax.com
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:14:07 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> > "bob garbutt" <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in
> > message
> > news:qiJ1h.71725$3x1.57728@fe1.news.blueyonder.co. uk
> > > I use vonage and plug the adapter they provide into my
> > > old surfboard modem provided by Telewest, then ceased
> > > my Telewest Phone line!
> >
> > Fine if you can live with their extortionate costs.

One day you'll put a blank line in and I'll fall off my chair in
surprise..!

> Well now if you call less than 27p a day including all
> calls to 02 and 01 numbers in the UK plus calls to the
> all of Ireland plus an excellent voicemail service plus
> support that you can call day and night for free

27p a day for free calls. Ah, that old oxymoron again. Or maybe just
moron.

> extortionate then I don't know what to think well I do
> but you wouldn't like it one bit .
> Hell fire Ivor if you are saying 27p a day is expensive
> for what you get how can you throw very expensive ale
> down your throat and get nothing in return for your money

I get the pleasure of drinking the beer in good company. Any cost is
extortionate if it is more than I would otherwise pay for what I use. I
probably don't pay 27p for phone calls in a fortnight let alone a day.

Ivor

<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uccfk29s33djsab9ndvmsp09rn0enrli2l@4ax.com
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 19:19:11 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> > I get the pleasure of drinking the beer in good company.
> My pleasure cost me the net connection and TV licence
> which works out at about 1.21 for a full day less than
> half the price of a pint of rotten ale which lasts about
> an hour if you are lucky .
> > Any cost is
> > extortionate if it is more than I would otherwise pay
> > for what I use. I probably don't pay 27p for phone
> > calls in a fortnight let alone a day.

> A yes I forgot you spend all your time talking to the two
> people or was it one person you managed to cajole into
> signing up with Sipgate.

Yawn...

Ivor

M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:14:07 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>> "bob garbutt" <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:qiJ1h.71725$3x1.57728@fe1.news.blueyonder.co. uk
>>> I use vonage and plug the adapter they provide into my
>>> old surfboard modem provided by Telewest, then ceased my
>>> Telewest Phone line!
>> Fine if you can live with their extortionate costs.
> Well now if you call less than 27p a day including all calls to 02 and
> 01 numbers in the UK plus calls to the all of Ireland plus an
> excellent voicemail service plus support that you can call day and
> night for free extortionate then I don't know what to think well I do
> but you wouldn't like it one bit .
> Hell fire Ivor if you are saying 27p a day is expensive for what you
> get how can you throw very expensive ale down your throat and get
> nothing in return for your money .


still a lot cheaper then telewest line rental plus calls plus Vat

<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nrohk2lg1ffsq2d49gbd17evc86vg7vtau@4ax.com
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:43:55 GMT, bob garbutt
> <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> > still a lot cheaper then telewest line rental plus
> > calls plus Vat

> How ANYONE can say a VONAGE account at a measly 27p a day
> is extortionate with all UK and Irish calls included plus
> the ability to dial 999 services AND with a free 4 port
> router included really does make me wonder just how tight
> some folk can get.

[1] I don't make enough calls to PSTN lines to make 27p a day financially
viable. Why spend more money on calls than the calls cost..?

[2] I have other means of calling 999 should I ever need to.

[3] I have equipment already so why do I need another router, free or
otherwise..?

[4] If you think spending more money than necessary is being tight, that's
your opinion. I happen to think spending as little as necessary to be far
more sensible.


Ivor

Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
> <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:nrohk2lg1ffsq2d49gbd17evc86vg7vtau@4ax.com
>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:43:55 GMT, bob garbutt
>> <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> still a lot cheaper then telewest line rental plus
>>> calls plus Vat
>
>> How ANYONE can say a VONAGE account at a measly 27p a day
>> is extortionate with all UK and Irish calls included plus
>> the ability to dial 999 services AND with a free 4 port
>> router included really does make me wonder just how tight
>> some folk can get.
>
> [1] I don't make enough calls to PSTN lines to make 27p a day
> financially viable. Why spend more money on calls than the calls
> cost..?
> [2] I have other means of calling 999 should I ever need to.
>
> [3] I have equipment already so why do I need another router, free or
> otherwise..?
>
> [4] If you think spending more money than necessary is being tight,
> that's your opinion. I happen to think spending as little as
> necessary to be far more sensible.
>
>
> Ivor

Same here.

Trouble is, many people are brainwashed into spending money to get so
called free calls, that spending of money is several times more than
they would pay on a call by call basis.

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4qns4fFn90qdU1@individual.net...
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.f45e7d6a309c9f23.48968@blueyonder.invalid
>> Ivor Jones pretended :
>> > "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:mn.ed617d6af2077dfb.48968@blueyonder.invalid
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > > Well, the Fritz!Box that's been mentioned that's sold
>> > > in the UK is for ADSL, not cable.
>> >
>> > The latest firmware allows the internal ADSL modem to
>> > be disabled.
>>
>> Hmm.....how many ethernet ports does it have? It would
>> need two at least - 1 WAN & 1 LAN. The non-wireless one
>> appears to have but one ethernet port.....
>
> Yes it does (it's the one I'm currently using) but it's still possible to
> disable the modem, though how you'd connect to a cable one I don't know, I
> don't think it would work just plugging into a switch somehow ;-)
>
>> > Personally I'm waiting for the 7170 model which is just
>> > out in Germany (Annex B) but not yet in the UK
>> > (although hopefully soon..!) This one has 3 phone ports
>> > and 4 Ethernet ports as well as wireless (with security
>> > enabled out of the box, unlike most other wireless
>> > products..!)
>>
>> Sounds nice - will there be a non-adsl version?
>
> Well the modem can be disabled and there are 4 LAN ports, but whether one
> of them can be used as a WAN port I don't know. Sounds daft to be able to
> switch off the modem and not be able to connect to another one, but there
> you go..! I will keep an eye on things and see if I can find out.
>
> Ivor
I have the 7050 with 2 ethernet ports. The configuration on this allows
adsl modem to be diisabled, and 1 port to be configured as either WAN or LAN
and the other as LAN only. I use it on NTL 4Mb

I am just having problems with the port forwarding now for http. All
appears to be configured correctly but my website cannot be reached.

Generally a comparably friendly user interface and works well apart from the
website glitch. Am going to have to use a different router for WAN.

HTH

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:53:23 GMT, M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 19:30:05 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
><ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>><M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:nrohk2lg1ffsq2d49gbd17evc86vg7vtau@4ax.co m
>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:43:55 GMT, bob garbutt
>>> <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > still a lot cheaper then telewest line rental plus
>>> > calls plus Vat
>>
>>> How ANYONE can say a VONAGE account at a measly 27p a day
>>> is extortionate with all UK and Irish calls included plus
>>> the ability to dial 999 services AND with a free 4 port
>>> router included really does make me wonder just how tight
>>> some folk can get.
>>
>>[1] I don't make enough calls to PSTN lines to make 27p a day financially
>>viable. Why spend more money on calls than the calls cost..?
>>
>>[2] I have other means of calling 999 should I ever need to.
>>
>>[3] I have equipment already so why do I need another router, free or
>>otherwise..?
>>
>>[4] If you think spending more money than necessary is being tight, that's
>>your opinion. I happen to think spending as little as necessary to be far
>>more sensible.
>If I could get exactly the same service and everything else for less
>then I would do so Ivor I have been looking around for the passed few
>weeks for a service that equals Vonage but there is none there was but
>Vonage have got the company now . Why do you think I left Vonage
>eleven months ago to join FreeTalk equal service but a couple of quid
>cheaper but what I have said originally still stands 27p a day is
>nothing .
Narrowing down to what it costs a day is a regular sales ploy. Why not
narrow it down to what it costs an hour, or a minute, or even a
second. 27p/day means thats just over 1p/hour - wow that sounds cheap,
but it isn't any cheaper than the 27p/day or the equivalent £98.55 a
year.

My philosophy generally is this:
CAPITAL
It doesn't matter about capital costs if conditions 1 or 2, together
with 3 are satisfied.

1. It will save you money within a propotionate space of time.

2. It raises your standard of living to a point that it really is
worth it, you can afford it, considering your general needs, you can
pay for it outright and it doesn't depreciate in value comparitively
quickly.

3. Don't borrow money on anything that won't appreciate in value, or
earn you a profit, above that of interest you might earn in a savings
intitution.
e.g. For this rule it's OK to borrow money to buy a house but not a
car.

RUNNING COSTS
Avoid on going costs as much as possible as these drain your money
away. Add all those, apparently little, on-going costs, together and,
over a year they will often appear significant.
e.g. If you buy a car every 5 years and can save £10/month on
something you don't really need you'll have £600 + interest to put
towards it.

Obviously the above is not written in a legal fashion so is open to
interpretation and, as such, is only intended to convey ideas.

Summary:
Spend your capital wisely and minimise on-going costs as far as
possible.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:26hjk25ij2e0e7bb1pe9bn2ip1uq60l3bb@4ax.com
> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:53:23 GMT,
> M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

[snip]

> > If I could get exactly the same service and everything
> > else for less then I would do so Ivor I have been
> > looking around for the passed few weeks for a service
> > that equals Vonage but there is none there was but
> > Vonage have got the company now . Why do you think I
> > left Vonage eleven months ago to join FreeTalk equal
> > service but a couple of quid cheaper but what I have
> > said originally still stands 27p a day is nothing .
> Narrowing down to what it costs a day is a regular sales
> ploy. Why not narrow it down to what it costs an hour, or
> a minute, or even a second. 27p/day means thats just over
> 1p/hour - wow that sounds cheap, but it isn't any cheaper
> than the 27p/day or the equivalent £98.55 a year.

If you don't make enough chargeable calls to go over that figure, it
doesn't matter how you calculate it, it's too expensive.


Ivor

Brian A wrote:

> 25/10/2006:Symantec charge exactly as much in GB pounds as they do
> in US$ for the same Norton DOWNLOAD.
> It's goodbye Norton - hello free AVG until they stop ripping us off.
> Why should we be ripped off in the UK?

Because people are willing to pay it.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
21:21:45 up 9 days, 5:07, 4 users, load average: 3.12, 3.17, 3.12
This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK

"{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZYM1h.44778$r61.3729@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
>> "bob garbutt" <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:qiJ1h.71725$3x1.57728@fe1.news.blueyonder.co. uk
>>> I use vonage and plug the adapter they provide into my
>>> old surfboard modem provided by Telewest, then ceased my
>>> Telewest Phone line!
>>
>> Fine if you can live with their extortionate costs.
>>
>> Ivor
>
>
> Yeah, can never understand why people pay so much.

Remember, most of the ATAs require some knowledge of SIP and network setup
(and patience!). Vonage is the provider that has come closest to the
usability and reliability of a standard fixed line IMHO. It may cost a lot
in VoIP terms, but is half the price of fixed line. Little things like
remote configuration, 1471/999/118 xxx access make it a more user-friendly
and less technically challenging solution that some people will pay more
for.

Of course for those that want to tinker and save a few more bob there are
plenty of other solutions. And of course there's the closed business model
Vonage use. Each to their own I guess.

"{{{{{Welcome}}}}}" <bhx___spam@trapped___hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZT72h.45397$r61.16421@text.news.blueyonder.co .uk...
> Thus spaketh Ivor Jones:
>> <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:nrohk2lg1ffsq2d49gbd17evc86vg7vtau@4ax.com
>>> On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 14:43:55 GMT, bob garbutt
>>> <bobgarb@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> still a lot cheaper then telewest line rental plus
>>>> calls plus Vat
>>
>>> How ANYONE can say a VONAGE account at a measly 27p a day
>>> is extortionate with all UK and Irish calls included plus
>>> the ability to dial 999 services AND with a free 4 port
>>> router included really does make me wonder just how tight
>>> some folk can get.
>>
>> [1] I don't make enough calls to PSTN lines to make 27p a day
>> financially viable. Why spend more money on calls than the calls
>> cost..?
>> [2] I have other means of calling 999 should I ever need to.
>>
>> [3] I have equipment already so why do I need another router, free or
>> otherwise..?
>>
>> [4] If you think spending more money than necessary is being tight,
>> that's your opinion. I happen to think spending as little as
>> necessary to be far more sensible.
>>
>>
>> Ivor
>
> Same here.
>
> Trouble is, many people are brainwashed into spending money to get so
> called free calls, that spending of money is several times more than they
> would pay on a call by call basis.

Sipgate 1000, for example.