In article <1jo6g1pv776a4hnlkqd5r0tnj4adhl07p8@4ax.com>, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk says...
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:24:32 +0100, "David W.E. Roberts"
> <nospam@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>
> >However I am likely to pay about £100 more for each router than for a
> >non-VOIP router.
> I don't know how you are arriving at the figure you are saying above
> but you can get a Vonage/Linksys router for 29.99 from Staples which
> allow you to have two phones and three computers connected if you are
> willing to go with Vonage . If not then a PAP2 will cost over forty
What happens if y9ou decide say in 12 months time, you decide that
Vonage is not for you, is it not possible to change the settings of the
Linsys router, so you can use another provider, or is that why it is so
cheap?
Not a good idea, ISPs are giving away modems and some even cheap
routers, but they are not locking them, apart from Wannabees.
It is like the mobile phone compnaies, locking the phones.
> pounds and I do not think it acts as a router and a Sipura around
> 80.00 depending on modal you choose .
> A ADSL 4 port Edimax router/Modem which are good cost around 31.00
> plus a decent ATA of some sort anything from 40 to 80 pounds .
>
"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6f33c6709c3aa5989685@news.metronet.co.u k
> In article <qfj8g11qj5hdcdo53c2hm1jp46jugitbhd@4ax.com>,
> chris_blunt@despammed.com says...
> >
> > Another way would be to dial numbers at random on a
> > telephone. ;-)
> >
> Anyone did that to me and I would tell them where to go,
> since I am ex- directory.
Me too..!
> Talking of which, is there such a thing as ex-directory
> with VOIP, do the numbers get published in the nommal
> telephone directory or are the numbers easy to get?
AFAIK all VoIP numbers are "ex-directory". Certainly Sipgate don't publish
their numbers, it's mentioned on their site, something to do with
"regulatory reasons" but I know no more than what it says there. I can't
speak for any other provider.
> I know with mobile phones, there is some sort of listing,
> but my phone is not registered anyway, so my number can
> not really be listed.
Actually I am not aware of any public listing of mobile numbers, but I
could be wrong. I have never seen one listed in the BT phone book.
<Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pd9ag1luuniqji7vni17r4cn72lleonn3d@4ax.com
[snip]
> Now just why would anyone want to contact vonage by email
> when they provide a 0800 number for people to contact
> them on ???? this was one on my main grumbles with
> Sipgate " no personal voice contact". I do not like
> spending hours typing out emails sooner pick up the phone
> no matter what the cost .
A phone call is ephemeral. Once you put the phone down there is no record
of it. Ok so it might be listed on a website or on a bill that you called
such and such a number, but it doesn't record what was said.
There are many occasions when a written record is desirable. A dispute,
for example. "Oh you phoned us complaining about X, did you..?" "Yes, what
are you going to do about refunding my money..?" "Nothing, goodbye"
Click..
> I have no wish to make new friends I have enough friends has it is
> that I met face to face years ago, face to face is the way to make
> friends not over a radio or in a chat room or whatever.
That depends on a few things, some people are shy, some are house bound.
I talked to one person most days who was house bound and I started to go
and see them every week to see if I could help in anyway. It made her
happy, because she was meeting people. Her health got worse and she
died, which is sad, but I am glad I made a difference in her life.
> Now just why would anyone want to contact vonage by email when they
> provide a 0800 number for people to contact them on ???? this was one
> on my main grumbles with Sipgate " no personal voice contact". I do
> not like spending hours typing out emails sooner pick up the phone no
> matter what the cost .
Does it matter how he contacts them? at the end of the day they have got
an email address, on which they can be contacted, so on which they
should reply. I prefer emails, if I can do things over theinternet or
via email I will. I hate phoning.
In article <3mkoreF1756g0U1@individual.net>, ivor@despammed.invalid
says...
>
>
> There are many occasions when a written record is desirable. A dispute,
> for example. "Oh you phoned us complaining about X, did you..?" "Yes, what
> are you going to do about refunding my money..?" "Nothing, goodbye"
> Click..
>
That is true, mind you all of my phone calls are recorded.
In article <lq9ag1dmml1akgrrophq997rkc4g35tbo3@4ax.com>, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>
> Being ex directory doesn't prevent anyone from dialing your number by
> mistake now does it or any auto dialer for that matter, when we first
You don't say? I never knew that.
> got a TW phone it started ringing once every 20 minutes and on
> answering there was a foreign voice on the other end jabbering away.
> TW changed the number and said it was a auto dialer somewhere in the
> world dialing random UK numbers .
>
I do nto get them very often, I do come home from work and find some
Amercan voice on the answering machine saying that I have won something
and to press 9, which I would never do anyway. I am on the telephone
preferences service or what ever it is called. Being Ex-directory do
help a lot, also my phone do not send out the number, so any one with
caller I.D will not know what my number is.
In article <3mkoh9F16c3scU1@individual.net>, ivor@despammed.invalid
says...
>
> > Anyone did that to me and I would tell them where to go,
> > since I am ex- directory.
>
> Me too..!
In fact I do tell them where to go, but if I am in a really evil mood, I
play with them. A few months back, I almost had a firm that redo the
guttering and facia boards, to pop down and have a look, it was only
when I told them, they would have to speak to the housing association
about the quote, that they put the phone down. I was on the phone for
about 15 minutes. Well they waste my time, I will waste theirs.
>
> AFAIK all VoIP numbers are "ex-directory". Certainly Sipgate don't publish
> their numbers, it's mentioned on their site, something to do with
> "regulatory reasons" but I know no more than what it says there. I can't
> speak for any other provider.
This is something that all VOIP provider will have to sort out. Maybe
offcom will sort it out. I presume VOIP providers still fall under the
Offcom banner.
> Actually I am not aware of any public listing of mobile numbers, but I
> could be wrong. I have never seen one listed in the BT phone book.
When I had my first mobile phone, and registered it, Vodafone asked me
if I wanted it listed. Maybe it is the telephone directory services that
lists it then.
>On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:10:26 +0100, AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Anyone did that to me and I would tell them where to go, since I am ex-
>>directory.
>Being ex directory doesn't prevent anyone from dialing your number by
>mistake now does it or any auto dialer for that matter, when we first
>got a TW phone it started ringing once every 20 minutes and on
>answering there was a foreign voice on the other end jabbering away.
>TW changed the number and said it was a auto dialer somewhere in the
>world dialing random UK numbers .
Their explanation doesn't sound quite right. If it was really dialling
random telephone numbers you would expect to get as many calls on the
new number as you did on the old one.
In article <04aag1li0lpjheqle150m69mvsa6m17fmu@4ax.com>, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk says...
> >
> >It is a pity thye customer service is not better, typical Amercans, I
> >suppose.
> Eh I though Sipgate was a German firm !!! .
>
Sorry, I meant vonage, sipgate do reply. Vonage have lost a customer.
Mind you I was chatting to my mate this monring and he is thinking that
maybe VOIP is not for him. He needs something he can rely on and being a
fair distance from the exchange, he is a bit worried about if his ADSL
would be able to cope. He do have problems now and again.
AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
> Talking of which, is there such a thing as ex-directory with VOIP,
> do the numbers get published in the nommal telephone directory or
> are the numbers easy to get?
I would expect them to be NQR ("No Quoted Record") rather than XD,
unless you arrange otherwise with BT. XD is in the directory (but
marked XD) whereas NQR is not.
The main difference is when you're trying to get the number out of
118xxx. When you do a search for an XD number, they can say "sorry,
that number is ex-directory" whereas a search for a NQR number will
draw a blank. The latter annoys the operator (although maybe no longer
at 50p/min!) because the caller may ask to search again with a
different variant of name and/or address.
--
PGP key ID E85DC776 - finger abuse@mooli.org.uk for full key
/:.*posting.google.com.*/HX-Trace:+j
On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 09:19:37 +0100, Phil Thompson
<phil.thompson@spamcop.net> wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:47:33 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
><ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I have never seen one listed in the BT phone book.
>
>found a couple of mobile number in ours, and quite a few 0845 and 0870
>"non geographical" numbers which seems a contradiction.
I used to have my 07010 FlexTel personal number listed in the BT
directory. What a mistake that was.
<Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pd9ag1luuniqji7vni17r4cn72lleonn3d@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:03:31 +0100, AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>Normally you phone people you know, A CB is not about that, A CB is a
>>way for people to meet, make new friend and house bond people can also
>>make new friends. Trying doing that with your VOIP.
> I have no wish to make new friends I have enough friends has it is
> that I met face to face years ago, face to face is the way to make
> friends not over a radio or in a chat room or whatever.
>>Oh BTY, your so call VOIP provider, should sort out their custamer
>>service. a mate of mine sent an email a week ago to them, asking about
>>some information, since he runs a business and VOIP may be the way to
>>go. He have heard nothing apart from a Automated email.
> Now just why would anyone want to contact vonage by email when they
> provide a 0800 number for people to contact them on ???? this was one
> on my main grumbles with Sipgate " no personal voice contact". I do
> not like spending hours typing out emails sooner pick up the phone no
> matter what the cost .
>
excatly i suspect most people in here such as ivors cronies make friends on
the net and via cb radio , how sad, get out into teh real world and make
real friends
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:3mkoreF1756g0U1@individual.net...
>
>
> <Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:pd9ag1luuniqji7vni17r4cn72lleonn3d@4ax.com
>
> [snip]
>
>> Now just why would anyone want to contact vonage by email
>> when they provide a 0800 number for people to contact
>> them on ???? this was one on my main grumbles with
>> Sipgate " no personal voice contact". I do not like
>> spending hours typing out emails sooner pick up the phone
>> no matter what the cost .
>
> A phone call is ephemeral. Once you put the phone down there is no record
> of it. Ok so it might be listed on a website or on a bill that you called
> such and such a number, but it doesn't record what was said.
>
> There are many occasions when a written record is desirable. A dispute,
> for example. "Oh you phoned us complaining about X, did you..?" "Yes, what
> are you going to do about refunding my money..?" "Nothing, goodbye"
> Click..
>
> Ivor
>
>
have you never heard of recording teh call ivor, of course telling them at
the start you are actually recording it.
"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6f9e89d5d5025698968a@news.metronet.co.u k...
> In article <3mkoreF1756g0U1@individual.net>, ivor@despammed.invalid
> says...
>>
>>
>> There are many occasions when a written record is desirable. A dispute,
>> for example. "Oh you phoned us complaining about X, did you..?" "Yes,
>> what
>> are you going to do about refunding my money..?" "Nothing, goodbye"
>> Click..
>>
> That is true, mind you all of my phone calls are recorded.
well i hope you are informing the parties who you are recording becuase it
is against the law if you arent pal
"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6f348d60d4a61a989687@news.metronet.co.u k...
> In article <0dp6g1tqku51mt07a99hjf92dccajv7am0@4ax.com>,
> Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:38:24 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
>> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Yes there are problems now and then but that's
>> >what developing new technology is all about.
>> Only with ONE particular provider most VOIP providers have got passed
>> the beta stage and are now providing excellent service to all their
>> customers with ALL their services working has they should work
>> and do not expect their customers to attend collage and study the
>> German language .
>>
>
> It is a pity thye customer service is not better, typical Amercans, I
> suppose.
>
he is talking about sipgate thicko not vonage like you seem to be implying
with your comments about americans
"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6fa32ef07b98d398968d@news.metronet.co.u k...
> In article <04aag1li0lpjheqle150m69mvsa6m17fmu@4ax.com>,
> Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk says...
>> >
>> >It is a pity thye customer service is not better, typical Amercans, I
>> >suppose.
>> Eh I though Sipgate was a German firm !!! .
>>
> Sorry, I meant vonage, sipgate do reply. Vonage have lost a customer.
> Mind you I was chatting to my mate this monring and he is thinking that
> maybe VOIP is not for him. He needs something he can rely on and being a
> fair distance from the exchange, he is a bit worried about if his ADSL
> would be able to cope. He do have problems now and again.
would you have been chatting to him on your cb bwaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d6f364877261133989688@news.metronet.co.u k...
In article <1jo6g1pv776a4hnlkqd5r0tnj4adhl07p8@4ax.com>, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk says...
> On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:24:32 +0100, "David W.E. Roberts"
> <nospam@talk21.com> wrote:
>
>
> >However I am likely to pay about £100 more for each router than for a
> >non-VOIP router.
> I don't know how you are arriving at the figure you are saying above
> but you can get a Vonage/Linksys router for 29.99 from Staples which
> allow you to have two phones and three computers connected if you are
> willing to go with Vonage . If not then a PAP2 will cost over forty
What happens if y9ou decide say in 12 months time, you decide that
Vonage is not for you, is it not possible to change the settings of the
Linsys router, so you can use another provider, or is that why it is so
cheap?
Not a good idea, ISPs are giving away modems and some even cheap
routers, but they are not locking them, apart from Wannabees.
It is like the mobile phone compnaies, locking the phones.
> pounds and I do not think it acts as a router and a Sipura around
> 80.00 depending on modal you choose .
> A ADSL 4 port Edimax router/Modem which are good cost around 31.00
> plus a decent ATA of some sort anything from 40 to 80 pounds .
>
"&" wrote:
> "AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d6f9e89d5d5025698968a@news.metronet.co.u k...
>>In article <3mkoreF1756g0U1@individual.net>, ivor@despammed.invalid
>>says...
>>>There are many occasions when a written record is desirable. A dispute,
>>>for example. "Oh you phoned us complaining about X, did you..?" "Yes,
>>>what
>>>are you going to do about refunding my money..?" "Nothing, goodbye"
>>>Click..
>>
>>That is true, mind you all of my phone calls are recorded.
>
> well i hope you are informing the parties who you are recording becuase it
> is against the law if you arent pal
Really? I was under the impression that individuals can record their own
communcations as longs as the recordings are for their own use.
Even if it is not, I thought that only one party had to be informed that
the call was being records, not both parties.
Of course, not informing both parties means that the recording will not
be permitted by itself as evidence in a court, but if the recording is
used by either party to remind them of the conversation for the purpose
of making notes of it's content, the notes are deemed to be acceptable
evidence.
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:de4gbf$8eq$1@custnews.inweb.co.uk...
> "&" wrote:
>> "AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.1d6f9e89d5d5025698968a@news.metronet.co.u k...
>>>In article <3mkoreF1756g0U1@individual.net>, ivor@despammed.invalid
>>>says...
>>>>There are many occasions when a written record is desirable. A dispute,
>>>>for example. "Oh you phoned us complaining about X, did you..?" "Yes,
>>>>what
>>>>are you going to do about refunding my money..?" "Nothing, goodbye"
>>>>Click..
>>>
>>>That is true, mind you all of my phone calls are recorded.
>>
>> well i hope you are informing the parties who you are recording becuase
>> it
>> is against the law if you arent pal
>
> Really? I was under the impression that individuals can record their own
> communcations as longs as the recordings are for their own use.
>
> Even if it is not, I thought that only one party had to be informed that
> the call was being records, not both parties.
>
> Of course, not informing both parties means that the recording will not
> be permitted by itself as evidence in a court, but if the recording is
> used by either party to remind them of the conversation for the purpose
> of making notes of it's content, the notes are deemed to be acceptable
> evidence.
YES BUT WHY NOT INFORM THE PERSON.BUSINESS YOU ARE RECORDING AS I HAVE HAD
INSTANCES WHERE THEY REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSOBILITY BECUASE THEY WERE NOT
INFORMED THEY WERE BEING RECORDED
> YES BUT WHY NOT INFORM THE PERSON.BUSINESS YOU ARE RECORDING AS I HAVE HAD
> INSTANCES WHERE THEY REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSOBILITY BECUASE THEY WERE NOT
> INFORMED THEY WERE BEING RECORDED
I always advise the party I am calling at the first opportunity - this
usually means I am advising their auto-attendant system at the same time
that that automated system is advising me they may record calls for "my
protection" etc.
"Fred Smith" <fred@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:4305D196.3010400@btinternet.com...
> "&" wrote:
>
>> YES BUT WHY NOT INFORM THE PERSON.BUSINESS YOU ARE RECORDING AS I HAVE
>> HAD INSTANCES WHERE THEY REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSOBILITY BECUASE THEY
>> WERE NOT INFORMED THEY WERE BEING RECORDED
>
> I always advise the party I am calling at the first opportunity - this
> usually means I am advising their auto-attendant system at the same time
> that that automated system is advising me they may record calls for "my
> protection" etc.
how about also informing the agent you are actually speaking to as well, i
have had several occasions where they have declined to continue the call as
they refused to be recorded, however upon insisting once i called back that
i speak to a senior manager etc,etc they generally allowed me to record the
call with their permission. I have some fantastic records of calls over the
last 3 years and you wouldnt belive the level of service received once they
knew they were being recorded, they really do try their best when they know
they are being recorded, i also have a virtual switchboard terminating on
one of my several vonage numbers, all incomibg calls are automaticcaly
recorded and all callers are informed of this automatically upon dialling
into the ivr system.
In article <dpjNe.11838$wh6.7586@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, dollars@pounds.uk says...
> > That is true, mind you all of my phone calls are recorded.
>
> well i hope you are informing the parties who you are recording becuase it
> is against the law if you arent pal
>
>
Do I care? nope, I do not give a monkeys, pal
For your information there is a beep I think it is every 12 seconds,
which is the only thing |I need to warn people they are being recorded.
In article <4njNe.11836$wh6.8286@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, dollars@pounds.uk says...
> excatly i suspect most people in here such as ivors cronies make friends on
> the net and via cb radio , how sad, get out into teh real world and make
> real friends
>
>
I got a lot of friends, I have met in different ways, but not every one
likes going to the pub, I see no sense in spending lots of money , just
to piss it up against the wall. so not all of my friends I have met on
CB or the net, in fact very few of them really.
Most people I talk to over the Internet do not even live in this
country, I am not going to fly to America, Japan, china, Italy, Spain or
Australia just to meet people. It is nice to talk to people from around
the world.
I think you are the sad one, because you do not open your eyes. The
Internet is not just about email and looking at porn sites, which some
of you think it is.
BTW, I do not regard myself as anyone's crony.
At the end of the day, I have got nothing to prove, I do not use VOIP,
like Sipgate or Vonage, so I can not say anything against or for them,
apart from the fact that vonage do not know what customer service is.
In article <MsjNe.11842$wh6.10976@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>, dollars@pounds.uk says...
>
> > pounds and I do not think it acts as a router and a Sipura around
> > 80.00 depending on modal you choose .
> > A ADSL 4 port Edimax router/Modem which are good cost around 31.00
> > plus a decent ATA of some sort anything from 40 to 80 pounds .
> >
>
>
> wannabees
>
> who are they ??????????
>
>
Think aboout it.
It is my name for an ISP, who want to be an ISP, but are not very good
at doing it.
"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d701e1dca041783989691@news.metronet.co.u k...
> In article <MsjNe.11842$wh6.10976@newsfe2-win.ntli.net>,
> dollars@pounds.uk says...
>>
>> > pounds and I do not think it acts as a router and a Sipura around
>> > 80.00 depending on modal you choose .
>> > A ADSL 4 port Edimax router/Modem which are good cost around 31.00
>> > plus a decent ATA of some sort anything from 40 to 80 pounds .
>> >
>>
>>
>> wannabees
>>
>> who are they ??????????
>>
>>
> Think aboout it.
>
>
> It is my name for an ISP, who want to be an ISP, but are not very good
> at doing it.
>
thick c*** i know perfectly well who it is, i was making a point, and why
not travel to see your friends all over the world, so far this year i have
been to bubai twice, atlanta 3 times, spain inparticular marbella more than
10 times so i dont particulary have a problem flying around the world, oh
and its always club class , you wouldnt belive how many points i have
accumulated on ba worldpoints :-)
"&" wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:de4gbf$8eq$1@custnews.inweb.co.uk...
>>"&" wrote:
>>>"AD C" <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>news:MPG.1d6f9e89d5d5025698968a@news.metronet.c o.uk...
[snip]
>>>> mind you all of my phone calls are recorded.
>>>
>>>well i hope you are informing the parties who you are recording becuase
>>>it is against the law if you arent pal
>>
>>Really? I was under the impression that individuals can record their own
>>communcations as longs as the recordings are for their own use.
>>
>>Even if it is not, I thought that only one party had to be informed that
>>the call was being records, not both parties.
>>
>>Of course, not informing both parties means that the recording will not
>>be permitted by itself as evidence in a court, but if the recording is
>>used by either party to remind them of the conversation for the purpose
>>of making notes of it's content, the notes are deemed to be acceptable
>>evidence.
>
> YES BUT WHY NOT INFORM THE PERSON.BUSINESS YOU ARE RECORDING AS I HAVE HAD
> INSTANCES WHERE THEY REFUSE TO ACCEPT RESPONSOBILITY BECUASE THEY WERE NOT
> INFORMED THEY WERE BEING RECORDED
Is there something wrong with your caps-lock or shift keys? Perhaps you
are shouting to disguise the fact they your post does not address mine
at all?
You said that recording a call without telling both of the parties is
illegal. It is not.
"&" wrote:
> I have some fantastic records of calls over the
> last 3 years and you wouldnt belive the level of service received once they
> knew they were being recorded, they really do try their best when they know
> they are being recorded,
It is a sad state of affairs if in order to get decent customer serice
you have to utter the "magic" phrase "This call is being recorded" at
the beginning of the call.
"Peter" <abuse@dopiaza.cabal.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4305b268$0$930$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk
> AD C <graphi47uk@y.a.h.o.o.co.uk> wrote:
> [...]
> > Talking of which, is there such a thing as ex-directory
> > with VOIP, do the numbers get published in the nommal
> > telephone directory or are the numbers easy to get?
>
> I would expect them to be NQR ("No Quoted Record") rather
> than XD, unless you arrange otherwise with BT. XD is in
> the directory (but marked XD) whereas NQR is not.
>
> The main difference is when you're trying to get the
> number out of 118xxx. When you do a search for an XD
> number, they can say "sorry, that number is ex-directory"
> whereas a search for a NQR number will draw a blank. The
> latter annoys the operator (although maybe no longer at
> 50p/min!) because the caller may ask to search again with
> a different variant of name and/or address.
Out of interest, how would you ask DQ for a VoIP number..? The user could
be anywhere and doesn't have to live at the address the account was set up
from.
Re: How long to get your money back? 
Linear Mode
