I'm getting rid of my phone: advice needed for alternative

Hi,

Decided I'm not prepared to pay ntl's £10.50 for line rental a month
considering my call charges only cost typically £2-3 per month. That's got
to be bad value in this day and age isn't it??

But I still need a phone occasionally. What about a pay as you go mobile?
Is that a good idea? Never had a mobile before. Or what about BT? How
expensive is their line rental?

VOIP sounds as if it might be the best alternative. The only trouble is I
know next to nothing about it and am clueless as to what I'm doing. I don't
have a credit card and only have a switch/maestro debit card, so I don't
think I can credit an account for voipbuster (or can I?).

BTW I *always* have my computer on apart from when I'm asleep or out, so
having it switched on to make or receive calls is not a problem.

Any advice much appreciated! :-)

Interesting Ian wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Decided I'm not prepared to pay ntl's £10.50 for line rental a month
> considering my call charges only cost typically £2-3 per month. That'sgot
> to be bad value in this day and age isn't it??
>
> But I still need a phone occasionally. What about a pay as you go mobile?
> Is that a good idea? Never had a mobile before. Or what about BT? How
> expensive is their line rental?
>
> VOIP sounds as if it might be the best alternative. The only trouble is I
> know next to nothing about it and am clueless as to what I'm doing. I don't
> have a credit card and only have a switch/maestro debit card, so I don't
> think I can credit an account for voipbuster (or can I?).
>
> BTW I *always* have my computer on apart from when I'm asleep or out, so
> having it switched on to make or receive calls is not a problem.
>
> Any advice much appreciated! :-)

The heretic view for VoIP-afficionados is "USE SKYPE" :-) You can
download from www.skype.com, you can pay by bank transfer in UK, you'll
have something that works without any hassle, no subscription charges
and pay-as-you-go. Voipbuster free calls are a marketing gimmick that
may end tomorrow or never, who knows ? With skype you can also get
Skype-In - so that people can call you on a normal number, i think
it's some 30 Euro per year or so. One caveat : you cannot call
emergency services from Skype. Check out their homepage. With your
underwhelming use of Telecom services, Skype might be just the thing
for you.

Note that nothing prevents you from using Voipbuster for outgoing calls
as well (get a friend to pay the 5 Euro for you , if they don't like
your debit cards):)

Now - let's see the blasts from the other readers :-)

On 29 Sep 2005 05:39:17 -0700, "peter" <cphpeter@gmail.com> wrote:

>Now - let's see the blasts from the other readers

Skype is a technological dead end. Don't go there.

Proper VoIP technology does not tie you to running a computer in order
to make a phone call.

Phil
--

Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
No more cable clowns :-))
Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:09:13 GMT, "Interesting Ian"
<DELETETHISspam.me2@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>But I still need a phone occasionally. What about a pay as you go mobile?
>Is that a good idea? Never had a mobile before.

PAYG calls at 15p/min, perhaps less at weekends / evenings. £30 for a
phone.

>Or what about BT? How
>expensive is their line rental?

same as NTL.

Phil
--

Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
No more cable clowns :-))
Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.

"peter" <cphpeter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127997557.512353.174690@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...



The heretic view for VoIP-afficionados is "USE SKYPE" :-) You can
download from www.skype.com, you can pay by bank transfer in UK, you'll
have something that works without any hassle, no subscription charges
and pay-as-you-go. Voipbuster free calls are a marketing gimmick that
may end tomorrow or never, who knows ? With skype you can also get
Skype-In - so that people can call you on a normal number, i think
it's some 30 Euro per year or so. One caveat : you cannot call
emergency services from Skype. Check out their homepage. With your
underwhelming use of Telecom services, Skype might be just the thing
for you.

Note that nothing prevents you from using Voipbuster for outgoing calls
as well (get a friend to pay the 5 Euro for you , if they don't like
your debit cards):)

Now - let's see the blasts from the other readers :-)

--------------------------------------------

Hmmmm . .why haven't the reply arrows come up? {confused}

Anyway, yes skype sounds better than paying ntl £126 a year just for the
line rental. Not being able to phone the emergency services could be a big
problem though! What do I use, just a microphone and headset?

Why don't people like skype?

Interesting Ian wrote:

> Why don't people like skype?

Being owned by Ebay is probably a good enough reason now.
--
Steve Loft

"Interesting Ian" <DELETETHISspam.me2@ntlworld.com> wrote
in message news:5PS_e.2249$Nv6.1201@newsfe6-win.ntli.net

[snip]

> Anyway, yes skype sounds better than paying ntl £126 a
> year just for the line rental. Not being able to phone
> the emergency services could be a big problem though!
> What do I use, just a microphone and headset?
>
> Why don't people like skype?

Because it uses a proprietary protocol and they are very reluctant to
release any details of it and how it works, which makes it virtually
impossible to use with any other equipment such as an ATA (analogue
telephone adaptor) and an ordinary phone. You *have* to use a PC and their
software, which many people find restricting.

At the risk of getting blasted by the group trolls, if you want a system
to try out which is free to set up and use, then try www.sipgate.co.uk -
you get a free geographic phone number for incoming calls, you can call
other Sipgate users and 0800 numbers free, you only need to pay if you
want to call ordinary public phone numbers, for this you add credit like
Skype or a PAYG mobile.

You can't use it for 999 calls, so if this is a problem to you then you'll
have to think again, as no VoIP service allows access except I believe
Vonage, who charge you £9.99 a month anyway so you might as well keep a
standard landline..!

Sipgate uses the practically industry standard SIP protocol, so any ATA or
IP phone will work with it.

(Stands back for the Sipgate bashers..!)

Ivor

"Steve Loft" <steve@nybbles.co.uk> wrote in message
news:DjT_e.8174$1M7.806@fe12.news.easynews.com
> Interesting Ian wrote:
>
> > Why don't people like skype?
>
> Being owned by Ebay is probably a good enough reason now.

Nothing wrong with eBay, never had any problems here. Most of the problems
come from buying from dodgy sellers, which can largely be avoided by a
little research..!

Ivor

Interesting Ian wrote:
> "peter" <cphpeter@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1127997557.512353.174690@g47g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...

>
> Hmmmm . .why haven't the reply arrows come up? {confused}
>
> Anyway, yes skype sounds better than paying ntl £126 a year just for the
> line rental. Not being able to phone the emergency services could be a big
> problem though! What do I use, just a microphone and headset?
>
> Why don't people like skype?

1. Emergency services are a problem with many VoIP providers - don't
ask WHY but accept it as a fact of life for the time being.

2. Yes, mike/headset will do just fine, but I'd recommend a
USB-headset/phone ('coz they got their own soundcard, with less
likelihood for echo)

3. Why they don't like SKype ? That's a stupid/theoretical discussion.
If you want to get from A to B you take what is available. Some people
swear by BMWs or rollerskates; and BMW-fans hate the rollerskaters and
vice-versa. Don't listen to such crap but just pick what works for you.

Get a landline on a minimum user tariff. If your only phone is
mains-powered or a mobile, then in an emergency it's sod's law that the
power will be cut and you won't be able to get a connection.

Nick

Ivor Jones wrote:

> Nothing wrong with eBay, never had any problems here. Most of the problems
> come from buying from dodgy sellers, which can largely be avoided by a
> little research..!

No-one could ever accuse you of being inconsistent, Ivor ;-)
--
Steve Loft

peter wrote:
> Interesting Ian wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Decided I'm not prepared to pay ntl's £10.50 for line rental a month
> > considering my call charges only cost typically £2-3 per month. That's got
> > to be bad value in this day and age isn't it??
> >
> > But I still need a phone occasionally. What about a pay as you go mobile?
> > Is that a good idea? Never had a mobile before. Or what about BT? How
> > expensive is their line rental?
> >
> > VOIP sounds as if it might be the best alternative. The only trouble is I
> > know next to nothing about it and am clueless as to what I'm doing. I don't
> > have a credit card and only have a switch/maestro debit card, so I don't
> > think I can credit an account for voipbuster (or can I?).
> >
> > BTW I *always* have my computer on apart from when I'm asleep or out, so
> > having it switched on to make or receive calls is not a problem.
> >
> > Any advice much appreciated! :-)
>
> The heretic view for VoIP-afficionados is "USE SKYPE" :-) You can
> download from www.skype.com, you can pay by bank transfer in UK, you'll
> have something that works without any hassle, no subscription charges
> and pay-as-you-go. Voipbuster free calls are a marketing gimmick that
> may end tomorrow or never, who knows ? With skype you can also get
> Skype-In - so that people can call you on a normal number, i think
> it's some 30 Euro per year or so. One caveat : you cannot call
> emergency services from Skype. Check out their homepage. With your
> underwhelming use of Telecom services, Skype might be just the thing
> for you.
>
> Note that nothing prevents you from using Voipbuster for outgoing calls
> as well (get a friend to pay the 5 Euro for you , if they don't like
> your debit cards):)
>
> Now - let's see the blasts from the other readers :-)

correct me if i am wrong but don't your pc have to be on all the time
with skype? he asked about a replacement for his phone line so i don't
think skype is a good alternative the answer is a good hardware phone
or adaptor used with a reliable provider

Mat

On 29 Sep 2005 08:18:07 -0700, "Nick Ward" <nicky.ward@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Get a landline on a minimum user tariff. If your only phone is
>mains-powered or a mobile, then in an emergency it's sod's law that the
>power will be cut and you won't be able to get a connection.
>
>Nick
When you said you were going to drop NTL am I to assume you get your
broadband from them? If so dropping the phone line won't necessarily
save you all the phone line rental as often the broadband is supplied
cheaper only if you get a phone line - do check first.

However, I went onto cable purley and absolutely to save on line
rental. I ditched BT and wasn't interested in paying for the cable
landline even though it would have only been an extra £5/month - I'd
sooner pay £2/month to Voipfone and use voipbuster - or 1899 than pay
cable for a landline.

As regards power loss on a voip phone system. There is nothing to stop
the wiring in of a 12V d.c. to 240V a.c. inverter to supply power in
case of a power cut. You can get a low power inverter from Maplins
quite cheaply and an old car battery will serve as the 12V supply.

As far as the Emergency Services are concerned - well just use a
mobile. You can get a cheap PAYG SIM, put it in an old phone, and
leave it permanently switched on and on charge - all ready to go in
case of emergency.

You can't expect the same reliability from voip but providing you
aren't expecting any technophobes, who will thow a wobbly if
everything isn't just perfect, to use it then it is good enough.

The disadvantage, to Skype is having to leave your computer switched
on and being tied to on provider's tariff.
You don't have to use Skype as a software phone. You can attach a USB
handset , or alternatively, you can get a Skype 'ATA'. Here the 'ATA'
connects to your computer and then your plug in your standard
analogue phones. Lest you think of dedicating a computer to Skype and
leaving it on 24/7 - do consider the cost of electricity.
A computer consuming 50W will consume 36.5 units in a month. At
10p/unit that is £3.65. Always best to avoid on-going costs. It is
often worth the layout on a capital item if appropriate savings can be
made in the longer term. Hence the purchase of a 'proper' (non-Skype)
ATA, which doesn't need a computer to work, to run all your POTS
handsets, could work out cheaper, more convenient, give a diverse
choice of providers and be generally better! - My opinion for what it
is worth!
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:30:34 +0100, Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

>On 29 Sep 2005 11:26:26 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
><mathew.j.curtis@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>correct me if i am wrong but don't your pc have to be on all the time
>>with skype? he asked about a replacement for his phone line so i don't
>>think skype is a good alternative the answer is a good hardware phone
>>or adaptor used with a reliable provider
>Sipgate perhaps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Now Dexter, Please don't mislead the poor boy - he might take your
suggestion seriously :-)


Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4adoj1tr1tq88tr1on8d1us3ulj30tk0jf@4ax.com
> On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 19:30:34 +0100,
> Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
>
> > On 29 Sep 2005 11:26:26 -0700, "Mathew Curtis"
> > <mathew.j.curtis@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > correct me if i am wrong but don't your pc have to be
> > > on all the time with skype? he asked about a
> > > replacement for his phone line so i don't think skype
> > > is a good alternative the answer is a good hardware
> > > phone or adaptor used with a reliable provider
> > Sipgate perhaps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
> Now Dexter, Please don't mislead the poor boy - he might
> take your suggestion seriously :-)

He can't resist. Sigh.....

Ivor

Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
<snip>
> Sipgate perhaps !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

22 exclamation marks, a sure sign of someone who wears their underpants
on their head.

Yup - care to read the original posting again perhaps ?

Anyway, stand tall to all the jerks with all theirs "ideas" . Skype is
simple and it works, and you dont have to buy any hardware. All that
other SIP-bullshit requires fiddling with x-lite. ata, routers and a
pile of BS, and if you only spend 3-4 £ on calls each months then it
is not worh wasting any money or time on. All that talk about
"proporietary", "dead end", "bla bla" is just people grinding their
axes :)

"peter" <cphpeter@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128021016.262932.149160@g44g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com
> Yup - care to read the original posting again perhaps ?
>
> Anyway, stand tall to all the jerks with all theirs
> "ideas" . Skype is simple and it works, and you dont have
> to buy any hardware. All that other SIP-bullshit requires
> fiddling with x-lite. ata, routers and a pile of BS, and
> if you only spend 3-4 £ on calls each months then it is
> not worh wasting any money or time on. All that talk
> about "proporietary", "dead end", "bla bla" is just
> people grinding their axes :)

Not always true. I have no "axe to grind" with Skype, I have it here and I
use it occasionally to call people who don't have anything else, but it
*is* still limiting if you want to receive calls without having a computer
switched on or use the system from any phone in the house/office.

Incidentally the ATA/router I'm currently using *was* literally plug &
play, I just had to input my ISP and SIP account details and away it went,
no problems since.

Ivor

On 29 Sep 2005 12:10:16 -0700, "peter" <cphpeter@gmail.com> wrote:

>Skype is
>simple and it works

but the quality is poor, as I found out today. Mind looking at the
amount of bandwidth it was using (very small) I can see why.

The reason I say its a dead end is that it doesn't integrate with
anything and ties you to one provider. Using SIP you can get an ATA
and plug your whole house extension system into it and use a selection
of call carriers for different classes of call to get the best deal.

The Linksys PAP-2 I brought home to test the Belkin router was plugged
in and just worked on 2 outgoing calls, without any port forwarding
configuration.

Phil
--

Usenet spam eaten by a Hamster http://www.tglsoft.de/
No more cable clowns :-))
Please do not feed or re-quote the trolls.

"Mathew Curtis" <mathew.j.curtis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1128018386.102957.3590@o13g2000cwo.googlegrou ps.com...

peter wrote:
> Interesting Ian wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Decided I'm not prepared to pay ntl's £10.50 for line rental a month
> > considering my call charges only cost typically £2-3 per month. That's
got
> > to be bad value in this day and age isn't it??
> >
> > But I still need a phone occasionally. What about a pay as you go
mobile?
> > Is that a good idea? Never had a mobile before. Or what about BT? How
> > expensive is their line rental?
> >
> > VOIP sounds as if it might be the best alternative. The only trouble is
I
> > know next to nothing about it and am clueless as to what I'm doing. I
don't
> > have a credit card and only have a switch/maestro debit card, so I don't
> > think I can credit an account for voipbuster (or can I?).
> >
> > BTW I *always* have my computer on apart from when I'm asleep or out, so
> > having it switched on to make or receive calls is not a problem.
> >
> > Any advice much appreciated! :-)
>
> The heretic view for VoIP-afficionados is "USE SKYPE" :-) You can
> download from www.skype.com, you can pay by bank transfer in UK, you'll
> have something that works without any hassle, no subscription charges
> and pay-as-you-go. Voipbuster free calls are a marketing gimmick that
> may end tomorrow or never, who knows ? With skype you can also get
> Skype-In - so that people can call you on a normal number, i think
> it's some 30 Euro per year or so. One caveat : you cannot call
> emergency services from Skype. Check out their homepage. With your
> underwhelming use of Telecom services, Skype might be just the thing
> for you.
>
> Note that nothing prevents you from using Voipbuster for outgoing calls
> as well (get a friend to pay the 5 Euro for you , if they don't like
> your debit cards):)
>
> Now - let's see the blasts from the other readers :-)

correct me if i am wrong but don't your pc have to be on all the time
with skype?

----------------------------------

My PC is on all the time.

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dbboj1hps3o3ke86gjup2i11ge868g4qrc@4ax.com...
> On 29 Sep 2005 08:18:07 -0700, "Nick Ward" <nicky.ward@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Get a landline on a minimum user tariff. If your only phone is
> >mains-powered or a mobile, then in an emergency it's sod's law that the
> >power will be cut and you won't be able to get a connection.
> >
> >Nick
> When you said you were going to drop NTL am I to assume you get your
> broadband from them? If so dropping the phone line won't necessarily
> save you all the phone line rental as often the broadband is supplied
> cheaper only if you get a phone line - do check first.

The TV cheaper they supplied was cheaper with the phone. £21.50 for both TV
(basic package) and telephone line. £10.50 for the telephone line alone and
I think £21.50 for the tv channels alone! I've just knocked down my
broadband from 2Mb to 1Mb and the bill has gone from £25 to £10 a month. I
think the amount I'm allowed to download has gone right down though (3Gb
amonth?), but it's not clear to me that this is enforced.





>

>
> As far as the Emergency Services are concerned - well just use a
> mobile. You can get a cheap PAYG SIM, put it in an old phone, and
> leave it permanently switched on and on charge - all ready to go in
> case of emergency.

Yes.

>
> The disadvantage, to Skype is having to leave your computer switched
> on and being tied to on provider's tariff.
> You don't have to use Skype as a software phone. You can attach a USB
> handset , or alternatively, you can get a Skype 'ATA'. Here the 'ATA'
> connects to your computer and then your plug in your standard
> analogue phones. Lest you think of dedicating a computer to Skype and
> leaving it on 24/7 - do consider the cost of electricity.

Not 24 hours. Just my waking hours when I'm in! The fact that people can't
ring me when I'm in bed I do not consider a disadvantage; indeed the precise
converse! ;)

Phil Thompson wrote:

> Proper VoIP technology does not tie you to running a computer in order
> to make a phone call.

FWIW a number of companies seem to be looking to install skype on
devices so that your PC doesn't have to be on. I have already heard of a
802.11 type handset with skype running embedded on the kit.

Regards

Jon


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peter wrote:

> All that talk about "proporietary", "dead end", "bla bla" is just people
> grinding their axes :)

If Skype made an ethernet ATA or a module for Asterisk, they'd have a hell
of a load more customers.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (gebssnfxl@ubgznvy.pbz)
19:44:11 up 4 days, 7:08, 2 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
This is my BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMSTICK

Phil Thompson wrote:

>> Proper VoIP technology does not tie you to running a computer in order
>> to make a phone call.

> FWIW a number of companies seem to be looking to install skype on
> devices so that your PC doesn't have to be on. I have already heard of a
> 802.11 type handset with skype running embedded on the kit.

---------------

With the current terms and conditions of skype, this is not allowed, as the
skype program itself has to be running and available on a computer client.
That is my understanding anyway

"Interesting Ian" <DELETETHISspam.me2@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:JPQ_e.4993$OC3.1094@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
> Hi,
>
> Decided I'm not prepared to pay ntl's £10.50 for line rental a month
> considering my call charges only cost typically £2-3 per month. That's
got
> to be bad value in this day and age isn't it??

i have NTL cable here - because i take digital TV and internet, there isnt
any rental for the phone line (or realistically, it is bundled in the other
charges)
>
> But I still need a phone occasionally. What about a pay as you go
mobile?
> Is that a good idea? Never had a mobile before. Or what about BT? How
> expensive is their line rental?

Mobile calls only get cheaper as you tie yourself into monthly payments -
and they are still in the 10p+ / min.

if you havent had one before you probably dont need the "killer app" of a
phone+ number you can use elsewhere
>
> VOIP sounds as if it might be the best alternative. The only trouble is I
> know next to nothing about it and am clueless as to what I'm doing. I
don't
> have a credit card and only have a switch/maestro debit card, so I don't
> think I can credit an account for voipbuster (or can I?).

i think you have had enough conflicting answers on this bit already :) -
however some Skype handsets for your PC if you go that way:
http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/hard...lephony_skype/

> BTW I *always* have my computer on apart from when I'm asleep or out, so
> having it switched on to make or receive calls is not a problem.
>
> Any advice much appreciated! :-)
--
Regards

stephen_hope@xyzworld.com - replace xyz with ntl