> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to Australia, USA,
> Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for £7.99 per month.
>
Oh yeah you get UK calls too :)
¬Stephen Hammond pretended :
> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to Australia, USA,
> Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for £7.99 per month.
>
> Stephen
Argentina
Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
China
Denmark
France
Germany
Gibraltar
Hong Kong
Ireland
Italy
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Poland
Puerto Rico
Russian Federation
Singapore
South Korea
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
Taiwan
United Kingdom
United States (+mobile)
>
> That seems very expensive compared with www.internetcalls.com, to name but
> one.
>
> For 10 Euros every 120 days, free calls to:
>
list of countries snipped
"Call charges likely to change without notice"
Sister companies voipcheap and voipbuster have lost free calls to many
destinations in the last few weeks.
Can only be a matter of time before internetcalls drop free UK calls
"¬Stephen Hammond" <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee0pjr$jqs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to Australia, USA,
> Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for £7.99 per month.
>
> Stephen
Do they give you an ATA for that price?
I already have the hardware
With voipcheap.com for 8.09GBP I get 90 days of free calls (subject to 300
min/week) to all these destinations
Andorra free*
Argentina free*
Australia free*
Austria free*
Belgium free*
Canada free*
Chile free*
China free*
Czech Republic free*
Denmark free*
Finland free*
France free*
Germany free*
Hong Kong (+mobile) free*
Hungary free*
Iceland free*
Ireland free*
Italy free*
Japan free*
Liechtenstein free*
Luxembourg free*
Malaysia free*
Monaco free*
Netherlands free*
New Zealand free*
Norway free*
Poland free*
Portugal free*
Russian Federation free*
Singapore (+mobile) free*
South Korea free*
Spain free*
Sweden free*
Switzerland free*
United Kingdom free*
United States (+mobile) free*
DMac submitted this idea :
>>
>> That seems very expensive compared with www.internetcalls.com, to name but
>> one.
>>
>> For 10 Euros every 120 days, free calls to:
>>
> list of countries snipped
>
> "Call charges likely to change without notice"
>
> Sister companies voipcheap and voipbuster have lost free calls to many
> destinations in the last few weeks.
> Can only be a matter of time before internetcalls drop free UK calls
I haven't looked at voipbuster, however, the free calls list still
includes UK @ voipcheap.com
Even if the rates do change, @ £7.99, I'd have to go some to use up
that amount ringing destinations that cost 1ct per minute.
£7.99 seems excessive.
As I'm out most of the day, even voip.co.uk's £2 per month for
unlimited E&WE calls is better value than Vonage's offer
Thus spaketh ¬Stephen Hammond:
> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to Australia,
> USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for £7.99 per month.
>
> Stephen
"¬Stephen Hammond" <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:ee0pjr$jqs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to
> Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland
> all for £7.99 per month.
All my received calls are free..! As are most of those I dial for that
matter.
As for the statement "Free calls for £7.99 a month" that just doesn't make
sense. I suppose it must be some new definition of the word "free" of
which I was previously unaware.
Thus spaketh ¬Stephen Hammond:
> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to Australia,
> USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for £7.99 per month.
>
> Stephen
How can that be free??
£7.99 per month is £7.99 more than free.
What you are getting is inclusive calls for £7.99, so you are paying
£7.99 for calls to those destinations, that's not free.
<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:rnh8g2pbs21cjlbglq8n5nfn5ckp32ie5l@4ax.com
> On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 16:50:13 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> > As for the statement "Free calls for £7.99 a month"
> > that just doesn't make sense. I suppose it must be some
> > new definition of the word "free" of which I was
> > previously unaware.
> how many more times before you get it into your thick
> head the 7.99 is just like the £ 11.00plus people are
> paying to BT
No it's not. The BT charge is a line rental. The Vonage charge is payable
in addition to the line rental, as you still need BT or cable to get it.
> plus calls and yes the calls ARE free to all
> 01 and o2 numbers and their equivalents in the whole of
> Ireland . The only 01 and 02 numbers you can dial from
> your beloved useless Sipgate account are to other Sipgate
> users .
As I've told you, most of my calls are to other Sipgate users. The few
calls I make to chargeable numbers are so few as to make little
difference. As I said, 25p a month or so usually.
> NOW ONCE AGAIN CALLS FROM A VOAGE ACCOUNT TO ALL
> 01 and 02 NUMBERS ARE TOALLY FREE.
Don't shout. They're not free if you have to pay a charge, any charge, to
get them.
> By the way have you yet come to the conclusion that you
> ARE a European if not what are you an Australian or an
> American or something .
On 2006-09-10, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> "¬Stephen Hammond" <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:ee0pjr$jqs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
>> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to Australia,
>> USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for £7.99 per
>> month.
>
> All my received calls are free..! As are most of those I dial for that
> matter.
But can you shimmy like my sister Kate?
> As for the statement "Free calls for £7.99 a month" that just doesn't make
> sense.
Indeed it does.
> I suppose it must be some new definition of the word "free" of
> which I was previously unaware.
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee1mo5$o98$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk
> On 2006-09-10, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > "¬Stephen Hammond" <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > message news:ee0pjr$jqs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
> > > If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls
> > > to Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and
> > > Ireland all for £7.99 per month.
> >
> > All my received calls are free..! As are most of those
> > I dial for that matter.
>
> But can you shimmy like my sister Kate?
No idea, I've never seen her. How is it relevant..?
> > As for the statement "Free calls for £7.99 a month"
> > that just doesn't make sense.
>
> Indeed it does.
How so..? Free to me means without charge. £7.99 or any other amount above
£0.00 for that matter is a charge which has to be paid in order to receive
the service. Hence it is not free.
> > I suppose it must be some new definition of the
> > word "free" of which I was previously unaware.
>
> No, not new. It's in common use.
On 2006-09-10, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ee1mo5$o98$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk
>> On 2006-09-10, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> > "¬Stephen Hammond" <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> > message news:ee0pjr$jqs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
>> > > If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to
>> > > Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for
>> > > £7.99 per month.
>> >
>> > All my received calls are free..! As are most of those I dial for
>> > that matter.
>>
>> But can you shimmy like my sister Kate?
>
> No idea, I've never seen her. How is it relevant..?
It has as much relevance as your contrived response to the OP.
>> > As for the statement "Free calls for £7.99 a month" that just
>> > doesn't make sense.
>>
>> Indeed it does.
>
> How so..? Free to me means without charge.
I believe the Vonage offer is available only by phoning the 0800 number
given. Those taking it up will not be charged for calls to the listed
countries. It seems existing customers will be charged; there is nothing
on the website saying otherwise. So, free calls for some people.
> £7.99 or any other amount above
> £0.00 for that matter is a charge which has to be paid in order to receive
> the service. Hence it is not free.
The 7.99 GBP gives access to Vonage's services, one of which is the
ability to make calls to the PSTN. It is not exactly an unknown business
model in the voip world. Betamax and voip.co.uk use it, for example. The
calls are free at the point of use.
It seems to me you are looking for zero cost as well as zero charge to
have calls qualify as free. I expect we will continue to differ on this
but I think that is an unreasonable use of 'free' in this context.
Brian wrote:
> >> Indeed it does.
> >
> > How so..? Free to me means without charge.
>
> I believe the Vonage offer is available only by phoning the 0800 number
> given. Those taking it up will not be charged for calls to the listed
> countries. It seems existing customers will be charged; there is nothing
> on the website saying otherwise. So, free calls for some people.
>
> > £7.99 or any other amount above
> > £0.00 for that matter is a charge which has to be paid in order to receive
> > the service. Hence it is not free.
>
> The 7.99 GBP gives access to Vonage's services, one of which is the
> ability to make calls to the PSTN. It is not exactly an unknown business
> model in the voip world. Betamax and voip.co.uk use it, for example. The
> calls are free at the point of use.
>
> It seems to me you are looking for zero cost as well as zero charge to
> have calls qualify as free. I expect we will continue to differ on this
> but I think that is an unreasonable use of 'free' in this context.
After all this, I reckon I might go for 3 months free calls for £1.50,
from Babble
Thus spaketh Brian:
> On 2006-09-10, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:ee1mo5$o98$1$830fa79d@news.demon.co.uk
>>> On 2006-09-10, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "¬Stephen Hammond" <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> message news:ee0pjr$jqs$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
>>>>> If you phone 0800 804 8988 you can receive free calls to
>>>>> Australia, USA, Canada, New Zealand, Germany and Ireland all for
>>>>> £7.99 per month.
>>>>
>>>> All my received calls are free..! As are most of those I dial for
>>>> that matter.
>>>
>>> But can you shimmy like my sister Kate?
>>
>> No idea, I've never seen her. How is it relevant..?
>
> It has as much relevance as your contrived response to the OP.
>
>>>> As for the statement "Free calls for £7.99 a month" that just
>>>> doesn't make sense.
>>>
>>> Indeed it does.
>>
>> How so..? Free to me means without charge.
>
> I believe the Vonage offer is available only by phoning the 0800
> number given. Those taking it up will not be charged for calls to the
> listed countries. It seems existing customers will be charged; there
> is nothing on the website saying otherwise. So, free calls for some
> people.
>
>> £7.99 or any other amount
>> above £0.00 for that matter is a charge which has to be paid in
>> order to receive the service. Hence it is not free.
>
> The 7.99 GBP gives access to Vonage's services, one of which is the
> ability to make calls to the PSTN. It is not exactly an unknown
> business model in the voip world. Betamax and voip.co.uk use it, for
> example. The calls are free at the point of use.
>
> It seems to me you are looking for zero cost as well as zero charge to
> have calls qualify as free. I expect we will continue to differ on
> this but I think that is an unreasonable use of 'free' in this
> context.
>
> Brian.
Vonage aren't offering free calls though, they are offering inclusive
calls, you have to pay £7.99 per month to be able to call those
destinations, if you didn't pay £7.99 then you don't get service, so it
can't be called free.
VoIPStunt etc could probably get away with it a little, as although if
you don't pay you can't call out, if you do pay that credit can still be
used up on chargeable destinations, and not just swallowed up to cover
the 'free' destinations. Though it depends I suppose if you do use your
credit up on chargeable calls.
Ivor Jones wrote:
> <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:rnh8g2pbs21cjlbglq8n5nfn5ckp32ie5l@4ax.com
>> how many more times before you get it into your thick
>> head the 7.99 is just like the £ 11.00plus people are
>> paying to BT
>
> No it's not. The BT charge is a line rental.
The BT charge is line rental plus their BT Together Option 1 discount
package - BT don't seem to offer "just" line rental to retail customers
any more.
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee28a3$rfh$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
> The 7.99 GBP gives access to Vonage's services,
Exactly. You have to pay it in order to get their services, including
these so-called "free" calls.
> one of
> which is the ability to make calls to the PSTN. It is not
> exactly an unknown business model in the voip world.
I never said it was. What it *isn't* is free.
> Betamax and voip.co.uk use it, for example. The calls are
> free at the point of use.
Not if there is any cost involved.
> It seems to me you are looking for zero cost as well as
> zero charge to have calls qualify as free.
What's the difference between zero cost and zero charge..?
> I expect we
> will continue to differ on this but I think that is an
> unreasonable use of 'free' in this context.
Free means free. No charge. The word has no other meaning. It's like these
"buy one get one free" offers in the supermarket; there's nothing free
about them, you have to buy something in order to get the so-called "free"
item. It is in effect half price, as you get two items instead of one, but
"free" they aren't, you have to pay for both of them, even if it's a
reduced price.
On 2006-09-11, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ee28a3$rfh$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
>
>> The 7.99 GBP gives access to Vonage's services,
>
> Exactly. You have to pay it in order to get their services, including
> these so-called "free" calls.
>
>> one of which is the ability to make calls to the PSTN. It is not
>> exactly an unknown business model in the voip world.
>
> I never said it was. What it *isn't* is free.
>
>> Betamax and voip.co.uk use it, for example. The calls are free at the
>> point of use.
>
> Not if there is any cost involved.
Originally you stipulated that free to you means without charge. Now, in
addition, you want it to mean without cost. If that is the meaning you
want 'free' to have here then offhand I cannot think of anything which
is free of charge and free of cost. Breathing, perhaps.
>> It seems to me you are looking for zero cost as well as zero charge
>> to have calls qualify as free.
>
> What's the difference between zero cost and zero charge..?
There is zero charge for you to use the NHS. It would be unwise to say
it comes at zero cost to you.
A Vonage customer claiming 'All my calls to Germany have zero charge'
could be believed. Asserting 'All my calls to Germany have zero cost' is
dubious.
>> I expect we will continue to differ on this but I think that is an
>> unreasonable use of 'free' in this context.
>
> Free means free. No charge. The word has no other meaning.
You've given it two meanings. Which is fine by me. I just need to be
clear on which one you are using.
After serious thinking M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote :
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:35:24 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> Not if there is any cost involved.
> Ok Ivor you say calls to other sipgate users are free but that
> statement doesn't hold water really does it how would someone living
> in London signing up with Sipgate tonight KNOW if the guy who lives
> next door to me or anyone else is on sipgate or not ?????. This
> question just dosen't apply to Sipgate most voip providers say the
> same thing.
That's where services like sipbroker come in......although it pains me
to say it, Sipgate's recent "upgrade" has caused this to stop working!
M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk explained on 11/09/2006 :
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:33:48 +0100, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>> The BT charge is line rental plus their BT Together Option 1 discount
>> package - BT don't seem to offer "just" line rental to retail customers
>> any more.
> BT are good Paul I have always said this but expensive and an
> expensive luxury I can do without , If I was ever in the position of
> having to have a land line it would be a BT line I would have .
I trhought you'd just renewed a cable TV package......CATV usually
comes with an included landline....
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee40hd$3cr$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
[snip]
> Originally you stipulated that free to you means without
> charge. Now, in addition, you want it to mean without
> cost. If that is the meaning you want 'free' to have here
> then offhand I cannot think of anything which is free of
> charge and free of cost. Breathing, perhaps.
Ok. let's see what the Oxford English Dictionary has to say on this, shall
we..? A quick search of www.askoxford.com produces this definition of the
word "free" which seems pretty clear to me:
• adverb without cost or payment.
Can I make it any clearer than that..? If so do tell me how.
<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u3jbg2db807lnt5trqdfba6bljpqfs8edr@4ax.com
> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 10:35:24 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> > Not if there is any cost involved.
Put a space in, *please*..!!!
> Ok Ivor you say calls to other sipgate users are free but
> that statement doesn't hold water really does it
Of course it does. Calls to other Sipgate users *are* free, how can you
say they're not..?
> how
> would someone living in London signing up with Sipgate
> tonight KNOW if the guy who lives next door to me or
> anyone else is on sipgate or not ?????. This question
> just dosen't apply to Sipgate most voip providers say the
> same thing.
That isn't the question being asked, is it..?!
They wouldn't know for certain, although in many cases it's possible to
tell from the number range. For example most if not all Birmingham 0121
numbers on Sipgate are in the 0121-314 xxxx range. It's not conclusive,
but it can give you a good idea. Dial the SIP ID and you'll find out if it
connects or not.
Ivor Jones wrote:
> <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:u3jbg2db807lnt5trqdfba6bljpqfs8edr@4ax.com
>> how
>> would someone living in London signing up with Sipgate
>> tonight KNOW if the guy who lives next door to me or
>> anyone else is on sipgate or not ?????. This question
>> just dosen't apply to Sipgate most voip providers say the
>> same thing.
>
> That isn't the question being asked, is it..?!
>
> They wouldn't know for certain, although in many cases it's possible to
> tell from the number range. For example most if not all Birmingham 0121
> numbers on Sipgate are in the 0121-314 xxxx range. It's not conclusive,
> but it can give you a good idea. Dial the SIP ID and you'll find out if it
> connects or not.
Surely if you know their SIP ID then you already know they use SIPgate?
Perhaps if you regularly talk to this person you could ask them if they
use VoIP?
If it the "the guy next door", why not pop next door and talk face to face?
Thus spaketh Paul Cupis:
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:u3jbg2db807lnt5trqdfba6bljpqfs8edr@4ax.com
>
>>> how
>>> would someone living in London signing up with Sipgate
>>> tonight KNOW if the guy who lives next door to me or
>>> anyone else is on sipgate or not ?????. This question
>>> just dosen't apply to Sipgate most voip providers say the
>>> same thing.
>>
>> That isn't the question being asked, is it..?!
>>
>> They wouldn't know for certain, although in many cases it's possible
>> to tell from the number range. For example most if not all
>> Birmingham 0121 numbers on Sipgate are in the 0121-314 xxxx range.
>> It's not conclusive, but it can give you a good idea. Dial the SIP
>> ID and you'll find out if it connects or not.
>
> Surely if you know their SIP ID then you already know they use
> SIPgate?
>
Could they not be using another SIP provider, with similar SIP IDs?
> Perhaps if you regularly talk to this person you could ask them if
> they use VoIP?
>
> If it the "the guy next door", why not pop next door and talk face to
> face?
{{{{{Welcome}}}}} wrote:
> Thus spaketh Paul Cupis:
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>> <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:u3jbg2db807lnt5trqdfba6bljpqfs8edr@4ax.com
>>
>>>> how
>>>> would someone living in London signing up with Sipgate
>>>> tonight KNOW if the guy who lives next door to me or
>>>> anyone else is on sipgate or not ?????. This question
>>>> just dosen't apply to Sipgate most voip providers say the
>>>> same thing.
>>>
>>> That isn't the question being asked, is it..?!
>>>
>>> They wouldn't know for certain, although in many cases it's possible
>>> to tell from the number range. For example most if not all
>>> Birmingham 0121 numbers on Sipgate are in the 0121-314 xxxx range.
>>> It's not conclusive, but it can give you a good idea. Dial the SIP
>>> ID and you'll find out if it connects or not.
>>
>> Surely if you know their SIP ID then you already know they use
>> SIPgate?
>
> Could they not be using another SIP provider, with similar SIP IDs?
Right, but my point is how would you know what SIP ID to dial if you
didn't know they used VoIP (regardless of provider).
On 2006-09-12, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:ee40hd$3cr$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
>
> [snip]
>
>> Originally you stipulated that free to you means without charge. Now,
>> in addition, you want it to mean without cost. If that is the meaning
>> you want 'free' to have here then offhand I cannot think of anything
>> which is free of charge and free of cost. Breathing, perhaps.
>
> Ok. let's see what the Oxford English Dictionary has to say on this, shall
> we..? A quick search of www.askoxford.com produces this definition of the
> word "free" which seems pretty clear to me:
>
> • adverb without cost or payment.
>
> Can I make it any clearer than that..? If so do tell me how.
Ah, the dictionary defence. Plus a touch of argument from authority.
Consider:
With the voip.co.uk inclusive minutes pack you can call 01/02 UK numbers
free for up to 60 minutes.
Refer-A-Friend and get 2 months free! (From the Vonage website).
Some people have a free DID number from VoipBuster.
Reading uk.telecom.voip online is free.
With a FreeView box the CBeebies channel is free to watch.
London residents over 60 years of age enjoy free travel on the
underground.
National Trust membership gives you free entry to more than 300 historic
houses and gardens.
Having asked me to distinguish between 'charge' and 'cost' you ignore
the reply and provide a third meaning of 'free'. I have decided you are
using 'free' to mean free of any cost and any charge. The evidence
points in that direction. Which means that none of the uses of the word
above would gain your Seal of Approval as some form of pre-payment is
required in all cases.
While I think language is complex enough to support more subtle uses of
the word I can live with your interpretation, so it is unlikely I will
have anything further to add to this thread beyond what I have already
said.
"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee67q4$gj9$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
> On 2006-09-12, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:ee40hd$3cr$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > Originally you stipulated that free to you means
> > > without charge. Now, in addition, you want it to mean
> > > without cost. If that is the meaning you want 'free'
> > > to have here then offhand I cannot think of anything
> > > which is free of charge and free of cost. Breathing,
> > > perhaps.
> >
> > Ok. let's see what the Oxford English Dictionary has to
> > say on this, shall we..? A quick search of
> > www.askoxford.com produces this definition of the word
> > "free" which seems pretty clear to me:
> >
> > . adverb without cost or payment.
> >
> > Can I make it any clearer than that..? If so do tell me
> > how.
>
> Ah, the dictionary defence. Plus a touch of argument from
> authority.
Why is accepting the dictionary definition of a word a defence..? Even if
it is, you can't really say it's wrong, can you..? Well perhaps *you* can.
> Consider:
>
> With the voip.co.uk inclusive minutes pack
Yes..! You finally said it..! INCLUSIVE..!
> you can call
> 01/02 UK numbers free for up to 60 minutes.
Now you've gone and spoiled it..!
> Refer-A-Friend and get 2 months free! (From the Vonage
> website).
Free what..?
> Some people have a free DID number from VoipBuster.
If they don't have to pay for it then it is indeed free. If they have to
pay anything for their service, then it isn't.
> Reading uk.telecom.voip online is free.
So it is.
> With a FreeView box the CBeebies channel is free to watch.
Your point being..?
> London residents over 60 years of age enjoy free travel
> on the underground.
So..?
> National Trust membership gives you free entry to more
> than 300 historic houses and gardens.
No, you have to pay for the membership. So it's reduced cost entry (the
amount you would effectively pay each time gets less the more times you
use the facility, but it's still incurring a cost/payment.
> Having asked me to distinguish between 'charge' and
> 'cost' you ignore the reply and provide a third meaning
> of 'free'. I have decided you are using 'free' to mean
> free of any cost and any charge. The evidence points in
> that direction. Which means that none of the uses of the
> word above would gain your Seal of Approval as some form
> of pre-payment is required in all cases.
It's not me you have to convince. It's the dictionary compilers, as it is
the dictionary I take my word meanings from. That's what I was taught at
school.
> While I think language is complex enough to support more
> subtle uses of the word I can live with your
> interpretation, so it is unlikely I will have anything
> further to add to this thread beyond what I have already
> said.
Phew..! Thank heavens for that, I'm not sure I could have coped with any
more..!
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ee5mgf$1cg$1@custnews.inweb.co.uk
> Ivor Jones wrote:
> > <M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:u3jbg2db807lnt5trqdfba6bljpqfs8edr@4ax.com
>
> > > how
> > > would someone living in London signing up with Sipgate
> > > tonight KNOW if the guy who lives next door to me or
> > > anyone else is on sipgate or not ?????. This question
> > > just dosen't apply to Sipgate most voip providers say
> > > the same thing.
> >
> > That isn't the question being asked, is it..?!
> >
> > They wouldn't know for certain, although in many cases
> > it's possible to tell from the number range. For
> > example most if not all Birmingham 0121 numbers on
> > Sipgate are in the 0121-314 xxxx range. It's not
> > conclusive, but it can give you a good idea. Dial the
> > SIP ID and you'll find out if it connects or not.
>
> Surely if you know their SIP ID then you already know
> they use SIPgate?
Not necessarily, some SIP ID's are duplicated on different networks. For
example my Gradwell SIP ID also exists as a SIP ID on Sipgate. I know this
as I dialled it from the wrong network by mistake once and got a total
stranger..! (One way of making friends I suppose..!)
> Perhaps if you regularly talk to this person you could
> ask them if they use VoIP?
Indeed.
> If it the "the guy next door", why not pop next door and
> talk face to face?
"Al" <.@_.invalid> wrote in message
news:0frdg29th3034slia15mshg7ka857i7m9t@4ax.com
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:32:36 +0100, Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> > > Some people have a free DID number from VoipBuster.
> >
> > If they don't have to pay for it then it is indeed
> > free. If they have to pay anything for their service,
> > then it isn't.
>
> Well Ivory me old mucker, I hat to disappoint you but
> you're wrong. Using your definition f "free", nothing
> actually is "free".
Not my definition. It's in the dictionary.
> Your calls using sipgate certainly aren't free. Why
> aren't they "free", because you have to pay an ISP for
> your broadband link, right?
Yes, but I'd have to pay that anyway. I don't *have* to pay Vonage or
whoever for "free" calls because I get them anyway.
> Oh, and on top of that you'd
> have to PAY for a computer so you could use your
> broadband connection.
Not always. I might have been given it.
> Oh, don't forget that your
> electricity company has its meter running in your
> premises so that you are charged for electricity while
> you're making sipgate calls.
I might not be the bill payer.
> Oh, and you couldn't have a
> broadband connection or an electricity supply without
> paying rent / mortgage, council tax / rates and other
> outgoings on premises before you can even use your
> so-called "free" calls through sipgate.
Not always true.
> Oh, and were your
> ATAs (of whatever kind you use) and your telephone
> handsets through which you make calls via sipgate also
> supplied totally free of all cost?
No, but again they might have been. And once they have been bought and the
cost of them has been covered, any remaining calls for the life of them
will indeed be free.
> No, Ivan
Ivor. Just goes to show how much you're reading what you're replying to.
> using your definition of "free", your calls
> through sipgate are anything but "free"!.
Not my definition. And the calls are free in that I don't have to pay for
them. I never said that I didn't have to pay for other components of my
system.
<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fv7eg2tdgdaudaiu78j218qnmo885a85qa@4ax.com
> On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:19:41 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>
> > Yes, but I'd have to pay that anyway. I don't *have* to
> > pay Vonage or whoever for "free" calls because I get
> > them anyway.
> So you can now call ANY 01 0r 02 number in the UK via
> Sipgate for free can you Ivor
I never said I could.
> I can of course via Vonage
> and FOR FREE !!!!! .
new Vonage offer 
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