OT: DECT phone with really good range - any recommendations?

Sorry to be somewhat OT but I know many of you use DECT phones plugged
into the ATA. I have bought a new house (for me) and it has quite a
lot of garden around it.

I have a BT Freestyle 2200 system and also a Philips 1222 system. For
reasons that I won't go into I need to leave the existing systems
where they are. Under the same conditions I find the Philips has a
better range than the BT system, which cuts out well before the
Philips. I know these things are supposed to have a maximum power
output but some seem to work better than others. I need to be able to
cover the whole garden, which the Philips almost does.

Looking for recommendations for a system to plug into my ATA that
gives really good range. Maybe I should buy another Philips :-)

Thanks,


Roger.

"Roger Baker" <me2@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:imih13hq07hdpa2bth8de01autj4tbo37a@news.indiv idual.de...
> Sorry to be somewhat OT but I know many of you use DECT phones plugged
> into the ATA. I have bought a new house (for me) and it has quite a
> lot of garden around it.
>
> I have a BT Freestyle 2200 system and also a Philips 1222 system. For
> reasons that I won't go into I need to leave the existing systems
> where they are. Under the same conditions I find the Philips has a
> better range than the BT system, which cuts out well before the
> Philips. I know these things are supposed to have a maximum power
> output but some seem to work better than others. I need to be able to
> cover the whole garden, which the Philips almost does.
>
> Looking for recommendations for a system to plug into my ATA that
> gives really good range. Maybe I should buy another Philips :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Roger.
>
You could experiment by placing the base unit in different positions
around the house. If possible, you could try an upstairs room or even
the loft. Height and free space are the most essential criteria.

"Nick" <not.known@here.com.uk> wrote in message
news:Yf7Sh.1839$hj5.1259@newsfe5-win.ntli.net

[snip]

> You could experiment by placing the base unit in
> different positions around the house. If possible, you
> could try an upstairs room or even the loft. Height and
> free space are the most essential criteria.

Or you could get a repeater. Sited in the right place it might cover areas
the main base doesn't. Repeaters only work with certain types of phone and
they're not cheap, but if you absolutely must have the coverage it may be
an option worth considering.

Ivor

..
>>
> You could experiment by placing the base unit in different positions
> around the house. If possible, you could try an upstairs room or even
> the loft. Height and free space are the most essential criteria.

I am sure when I did a course on a Blick multi-cell DECT system that
we were warned not to site the base-stations too high up because
you could get a null in coverage right underneath.

I think they insisted in referring to the base stations as radio-heads,
made them sound like an 80s rock band.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 16:28:03 +0100, "Graham" <me@privacy.com> wrote:

>.
>>>
>> You could experiment by placing the base unit in different positions
>> around the house. If possible, you could try an upstairs room or even
>> the loft. Height and free space are the most essential criteria.
>
>I am sure when I did a course on a Blick multi-cell DECT system that
>we were warned not to site the base-stations too high up because
>you could get a null in coverage right underneath.
>
>I think they insisted in referring to the base stations as radio-heads,
>made them sound like an 80s rock band.

Also, it helps to think of the coverage as a fixed-volume cone with
the base at its apex - the higher you go, the smaller the area of the
circle which forms the base of the cone. Height can still be
helpful, but it's not a cure-all.
--
All the best
David Millen
Xativa, Valencia
www.fincacasablanca.com
please reply in group
if you have to email me, remove the obvious:
davidtheobvious@millen.com

Roger Baker wrote:
> Looking for recommendations for a system to plug into my ATA that
> gives really good range. Maybe I should buy another Philips :-)
>

Just forget the ATA and buy a Siemens C460IP. The range is as good as
any single base / no repeater system I have used.



Tim

In article <46192295$0$763$bed64819@news.gradwell.net>,
Tim <nutnews@kooky.org> wrote:
>Roger Baker wrote:
>> Looking for recommendations for a system to plug into my ATA that
>> gives really good range. Maybe I should buy another Philips :-)
>>
>
>Just forget the ATA and buy a Siemens C460IP. The range is as good as
>any single base / no repeater system I have used.

Seconded. I've installed 4 of these now (3 at a client site and one at
home, as it more than passes the wife test!) and the range and sound
quality is excellent. The base unit has an analogue phone socket and an
Ethernet port. The base unit (+ PSU) is separate from the phone/charger
unit - so all handsets are identical and you can put the base unit where
it's best positioned.

I've bought mine from http://www.provu.co.uk/ no connection other than
being a happy customer, although I have found that other so-called GAP
compliant handsets I already had won't mate to the base station )-:

Gordon

On Sun, 08 Apr 2007 13:10:01 +0200, Roger Baker <me2@privacy.net>
wrote:

>Sorry to be somewhat OT but I know many of you use DECT phones plugged
>into the ATA. I have bought a new house (for me) and it has quite a
>lot of garden around it.
>
>I have a BT Freestyle 2200 system and also a Philips 1222 system. For
>reasons that I won't go into I need to leave the existing systems
>where they are. Under the same conditions I find the Philips has a
>better range than the BT system, which cuts out well before the
>Philips. I know these things are supposed to have a maximum power
>output but some seem to work better than others. I need to be able to
>cover the whole garden, which the Philips almost does.
>
>Looking for recommendations for a system to plug into my ATA that
>gives really good range. Maybe I should buy another Philips :-)
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Roger.
If I wanted to increase the range, of any device like this, I'd look
at improving the aerial. It is a pity these devices don't have an
aerial socket. To use an external aerial you'd have to open up the
base station and make a suiable connection. There are plenty of
articles on the Net for homebrew 2.4GHz aerials. It all depends on how
confident you are about the electronics side of it.

Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6epi13d1cdupdiktg5br5q070phk9u0m2k@4ax.com

[snip]

> If I wanted to increase the range, of any device like
> this, I'd look at improving the aerial. It is a pity
> these devices don't have an aerial socket. To use an
> external aerial you'd have to open up the base station
> and make a suiable connection. There are plenty of
> articles on the Net for homebrew 2.4GHz aerials. It all
> depends on how confident you are about the electronics
> side of it.

I wouldn't swear to it, but I'd hazard a pretty good guess that the reason
these devices don't have aerial sockets is to prevent people doing exactly
what you are trying to do..! Imagine if everybody put external aerials on
their DECT bases, it could cause a lot of interference problems. Do it
with Wi-Fi as well and it would be chaos in a heavily populated area..!

Also if you do modify the aerial connection, bear in mind you will almost
certainly invalidate any warranty and probably run foul of type-approval
legislation as well.


Ivor

On Apr 8, 12:10 pm, Roger Baker <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> Sorry to be somewhat OT but I know many of you use DECT phones plugged
> into the ATA. I have bought a new house (for me) and it has quite a
> lot of garden around it.
>
> I have a BT Freestyle 2200 system and also a Philips 1222 system. For
> reasons that I won't go into I need to leave the existing systems
> where they are. Under the same conditions I find the Philips has a
> better range than the BT system, which cuts out well before the
> Philips. I know these things are supposed to have a maximum power
> output but some seem to work better than others. I need to be able to
> cover the whole garden, which the Philips almost does.
>
> Looking for recommendations for a system to plug into my ATA that
> gives really good range. Maybe I should buy another Philips :-)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roger.

Google for "BT Diverse Elements" - they claim 1km outdoor range and
weatherproof.

--

Andy

Brian A wrote:
> If I wanted to increase the range, of any device like this, I'd look
> at improving the aerial. It is a pity these devices don't have an
> aerial socket. To use an external aerial you'd have to open up the
> base station and make a suiable connection. There are plenty of
> articles on the Net for homebrew 2.4GHz aerials. It all depends on how
> confident you are about the electronics side of it.
>


Except Dect runs on 1880-1900 MHz.


So, if you were to connect a 2.4Ghz antenna then the VSWR would probably
kill the transmitter over time.

One of the very good things about Dect is that it has its own frequency
band. Only Dect devices operate here, so there is very little chance of
interference. For this to work, everything has to work within the Dect
standard, and I guess this includes transmit power levels.


If you do want to go further, then we believe that the BT diverse
repeater will work with the C460IP. It is also a Siemens product.

I haven't tried it yet.


Tim

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:22:27 +0100, Tim <nutnews@kooky.org> wrote:

>Brian A wrote:
>> If I wanted to increase the range, of any device like this, I'd look
>> at improving the aerial. It is a pity these devices don't have an
>> aerial socket. To use an external aerial you'd have to open up the
>> base station and make a suiable connection. There are plenty of
>> articles on the Net for homebrew 2.4GHz aerials. It all depends on how
>> confident you are about the electronics side of it.
>>
>
>
>Except Dect runs on 1880-1900 MHz.
Yes, I wasn't very clear. I did mean with modification. Many of the
aerial plans do allow for use at other frequencies.
>
>
>So, if you were to connect a 2.4Ghz antenna then the VSWR would probably
>kill the transmitter over time.
At such low power I don't think there would be a problem. If the 'PA'
is going to go it'll go quickly. So much better in the valve days -
when they started to glow red you knew there was a problem and could
switch off - semiconductors go into thermal runaway and that's end of
story. I did hear of one chap who coverd a golf course with a rabbit
base station with an aerial attached.


Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:22:27 +0100, Tim <nutnews@kooky.org> wrote:

>Except Dect runs on 1880-1900 MHz.

Tim,

Thanks for this. I too had always understood DECT to be circa 1900Mhz.

I am intrigued why people sometimes need to move their DECT base
stations away from their WiFi access points or change WiFi channel to
avoid drop outs. Maybe the front end of these devices is wide open?

Roger.

Roger Baker wrote:
>
> Thanks for this. I too had always understood DECT to be circa 1900Mhz.
>
> I am intrigued why people sometimes need to move their DECT base
> stations away from their WiFi access points or change WiFi channel to
> avoid drop outs. Maybe the front end of these devices is wide open?

You are probably correct.

I've not had a problem with wifi.

But do know of problems with using the new (chinese) BT Dect phones when
the dect base is next to a some Freeview set top boxes.


If the problems were wifi, then the problem may not have been Dect but
something else. But changing the wifi channel helps. For example, Wifi
channel 12 is completely unusable in my office, for some reason I've
never been able to explain.

Tim

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 11:04:51 +0100, Tim <nutnews@kooky.org> wrote:


>something else. But changing the wifi channel helps. For example, Wifi
>channel 12 is completely unusable in my office, for some reason I've
>never been able to explain.

Could it be that some of the items in your office are using WiFi cards
designed for the USA market? I don't think they allow channels 11 & 12
in the USA.

I have a Linksys WMB54G Music Bridge purched in the USA and it only
has WiFi channels 1 to 11.

Reger.

Roger Baker wrote:
> Could it be that some of the items in your office are using WiFi cards
> designed for the USA market? I don't think they allow channels 11 & 12
> in the USA.


I don't think so. We've tried lots of different wifi devices. And they
work fine on 12 in other places.

Tim

Tim wrote:

> For example, Wifi channel 12 is completely unusable in my office, for some
> reason I've never been able to explain.

Could be other users on the channel. As you alluded to in an earlier post,
WiFi has to share the 2.4GHz band with a whole host of other devices, so it
could be almost anything from CCTV to a dodgy imported cordless phone.

--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
18:26:58 up 1 day, 4:45, 1 user, load average: 0.06, 0.26, 0.31
Yes. I'm just guessing.

alexd wrote:
>
> Could be other users on the channel. As you alluded to in an earlier post,
> WiFi has to share the 2.4GHz band with a whole host of other devices, so it
> could be almost anything from CCTV to a dodgy imported cordless phone.

Which goes back to saying that the dedicated spectrum for Dect is a
really good thing.

Tim

Tim wrote:

> Which goes back to saying that the dedicated spectrum for Dect is a
> really good thing.

How many DECT "channels" are there? How many sets of one handset + one base
station could one have in the same room making calls at once? If you've got
too many too close together, do you get a busy tone or does the handset
just fail to register with the base station?


--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
20:33:37 up 2 days, 6:52, 2 users, load average: 0.80, 0.68, 0.52
Yes. I'm just guessing.

In article <4847660.mhCFiZIyDz@ale.cx>, alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Tim wrote:
>
>> Which goes back to saying that the dedicated spectrum for Dect is a
>> really good thing.
>
>How many DECT "channels" are there? How many sets of one handset + one base
>station could one have in the same room making calls at once? If you've got
>too many too close together, do you get a busy tone or does the handset
>just fail to register with the base station?

I've never been able to work this out, but AIUI, there are professional
DECT solutions that can handle over 100 sepatate phones, each individually
addressable.

At one client site, I've got 5 basestations in one room, (3 siemens
CP460IPs, one on a fax machine, one a BT unit) all working OK - but when
I power-up an el-cheapo USB DECT phone that they have in the same room,
it breaks most of the others, I think it's the USB phone base that is the
issue, not the fact that there are too many DECT basestations - it's just
cheape skype rubbish as far as I'm concerned, and best off in the bin.

Gordon

alexd wrote:
> How many DECT "channels" are there? How many sets of one handset +
> one base station could one have in the same room making calls at
> once? If you've got too many too close together, do you get a busy
> tone or does the handset just fail to register with the base station?
>
Most professional (big) Dect base stations have a number of registered
handsets, and a number of concurrent calls.

Dect has 10 carriers (in europe) with 12 up and 12 down timeslots.

So, in theory that is 120 simultaneous calls within the same area.

I'm not sure whether this is possible in practice.

Tim

On 9 Apr 2007 01:22:16 -0700, "Andy Lord" <andy.lord.uk@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Google for "BT Diverse Elements" - they claim 1km outdoor range and
>weatherproof.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this
thread. I know it was a bit OT.

I have ordered the BT Diverse Elements system as I already have 3
ATA's so the Siemens C460IP seems a bit excessive in my personal case.
If anyone is interested I will post later on how I get on with it.

Regards,

Roger.

In article <dclr13tmsuaidrvmafn1s0c96gp4toa8mn@news.individua l.de>,
Roger Baker <me2@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 9 Apr 2007 01:22:16 -0700, "Andy Lord" <andy.lord.uk@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Google for "BT Diverse Elements" - they claim 1km outdoor range and
>>weatherproof.
>
>Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed to this
>thread. I know it was a bit OT.
>
>I have ordered the BT Diverse Elements system as I already have 3
>ATA's so the Siemens C460IP seems a bit excessive in my personal case.
>If anyone is interested I will post later on how I get on with it.

One thing you may or may not care about is the number of digital to
analogue transitions in the voice path... So with an ATA and a standard
DECT phone, you get digital into the ATA, analogue out, then into the
DECT base where it's digital to the handset... With the CP460 you omit
one set of analogue conversions. It's also less spaghetti in the wiring
department too!

Gordon

On 12 Apr 2007 08:02:45 GMT, gordon@drogon.net (Gordon Henderson)
wrote:

>One thing you may or may not care about is the number of digital to
>analogue transitions in the voice path... So with an ATA and a standard
>DECT phone, you get digital into the ATA, analogue out, then into the
>DECT base where it's digital to the handset... With the CP460 you omit
>one set of analogue conversions. It's also less spaghetti in the wiring
>department too!

True Gordon, but I also have a requirement for an answer machine. I
guess one could be connected between the PSTN line and the CP460 but
not for the VOIP side.

TBH I find the quality via my ATA's and existing DECT phone is fine
for the limited bandwidth speech requires.

I might get the CP460 in due course, especially if they made a model
with a built in answer phone.

Roger.

In article <p3c423d1860kiec2k7rn3laftot5qnnasn@news.individua l.de>,
Roger Baker <me2@privacy.net> wrote:
>On 12 Apr 2007 08:02:45 GMT, gordon@drogon.net (Gordon Henderson)
>wrote:
>
>>One thing you may or may not care about is the number of digital to
>>analogue transitions in the voice path... So with an ATA and a standard
>>DECT phone, you get digital into the ATA, analogue out, then into the
>>DECT base where it's digital to the handset... With the CP460 you omit
>>one set of analogue conversions. It's also less spaghetti in the wiring
>>department too!
>
>True Gordon, but I also have a requirement for an answer machine. I
>guess one could be connected between the PSTN line and the CP460 but
>not for the VOIP side.

What you need is your own asterisk box and have it email your voicemail
to you!

Or maybe something like a Grandstream HT488 - which has analogue in
from a POTS line, and & Ethernet in (SIP), and analogue out - connect
the answering machine + DECT phone to the analogue out and it can record
either the incoming POTS line or an incoming VoIP call...

I haven't bought an answering machine for years, but I've just done a
quick google and am staggered by the price range - from 17 quid to well
over £100!!!

eg.
http://www.telephonedepot.co.uk/td.c...owsubcat&cat=9

>TBH I find the quality via my ATA's and existing DECT phone is fine
>for the limited bandwidth speech requires.

You're probably right here.

>I might get the CP460 in due course, especially if they made a model
>with a built in answer phone.

I liked them because they don't have one built in - makes them affordable
too... I suspect that the expectation is that your VoIP provider handles
voicemail for you though...

Gordon

Gordon Henderson wrote:
> I liked them because they don't have one built in - makes them affordable
> too... I suspect that the expectation is that your VoIP provider handles
> voicemail for you though...

And you can use BT 1571 on the pots line. The C460IP supports message
waiting indication from BT 1571 too.


It doesn't support message waiting for SIP though.

Tim