well seeing as gradwell seem to have been the only company that have
passed comment i went to sign up
it is NOT clear to me if gradwell do or don't supply 999 emergency
services although after digging deep in to their terms and conditions
i did find the following lines.
5.5.2 may sometimes be unavailable as a result of things over which we
have no control, for example, the weather, power disruptions and
failures of your internet service provider (ISP) or broadband
connection and you understand that in such circumstances all services
(including 999/112 public emergency call services) will also be
unavailable;
5.5.3 may not connect you to the public emergancy service and if we
do, may not provide your phone number and location details to the
operator if you make a public emergency services call. You will have
to provide your location information and phone number verbally to the
operator; and
5.5.4 may not offer you the ability to transfer (port) your existing
number to an alternative service if your service ends.
5.6 The Service provided by us is not a Publicly Available Telephone
Services (PATS) and your attention is specifically drawn to the
service descriptions at www.gradwell.com that sets out the Service
offering and service limitations for our customers. The Service is
subject to different regulatory treatment than a Publicly Available
Telephone Services (PATS) and this may limit or otherwise affect your
rights of redress before regulatory agencies such as OFCOM in the UK.
I may have got this completely wrong and if so can someone please
clarify.
The way i understand it if a company provides 999 this means that they
are self declared PATS yet gradwells terms and conditions seem to say
we do offer 999 and it could fail at any time but we are not pats.
They also don't seem to know how to spell emergency.
All very confusing and i don't really know who is right and who is not
i can only base my opinions on what the law/regulations say. and will
therefore be going with one of the two companies that do seem to be
doing everything by the book.
meisadick@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> These regulations became law on the 29th of may and from all of the
> providers i have looked at only www.vonage.co.uk and www.voipfone.co.uk
> seem to have taken these laws seriously and complied with the
> regulations.
What makes you think that those 2 do comply, and that others don't?
On 2 Jun, 15:47, Tim <nutn...@kooky.org> wrote:
> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > These regulations became law on the 29th of may and from all of the
> > providers i have looked at onlywww.vonage.co.ukandwww.voipfone.co.uk
> > seem to have taken these laws seriously and complied with the
> > regulations.
>
> What makes you think that those 2 do comply, and that others don't?
>
> I can think of plenty more.
>
> Tim
In both cases it was made clear at the point of sign-up that 999
services were available and so on as specified in the regulations the
funny thing is having now chosen to go with www.vonage.co.uk i just
went to sign up and all what i previously read seems to have
disappeared have they changed their site? i am now more confused more
than ever and i think i may well just stick with my bt lines.
In article <1180795562.612164.184810@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>, meisadick@hotmail.co.uk wrote
>
>it is NOT clear to me if gradwell do or don't supply 999 emergency
>services
Well it seems perfectly clear to me.
If you look at each of their web pages describing the VoIP services on
offer you will find the link "See our VoIP FAQs". The FAQs page is also
directly accessible from the main VoIP menu.
In the FAQs you will find:
<quote>
Q: Are there any phone numbers that VoIP phones can't call?
A: You can phone most phone numbers, apart from premium numbers. The big exception is the emergency services. You can't call 999 on a VoIP phone
at present, so in an emergency you would need to also have a mobile or landline.
</quote>
"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:f3rg3q$2tub$1@energise.enta.net
> Ivor Jones wrote:
[snip]
> > That document states, amongst other things:
> >
> > "The new code of practice requires VoIP providers to
> > make clear: a.. whether or not the service includes access to
> > emergency services..." This seems to me to mean that
> > they must tell you whether or not you can access
> > emergency services, not that they *must* provide
> > access. Or am I reading it wrongly..?
>
> No, you are correct. The regulations do not require VoIP
> operators to provide 999/112 access, but they do require
> operators to make it very clear to their users whether
> 999/112 is available - i.e. they must make the customer
> aware that it is not supported if it is not.
> Ofcom are considering further regulations to require
> access to 999/112 in the future.
Given that one of the prime reasons (for many people, at least, including
me) is the ability to use the service from anywhere, it seems rather daft
to insist on the ability to call emergency services. If I'm staying at my
mate's place in California, I won't be faffing around with a softphone on
my laptop in order to call 911, I'll use his landline..! I want my VoIP
numbers with me to keep in touch with home for free.
On 2 Jun, 16:24, Bob Evans <newsabuse...@deleteifspam.lichtech.co.uk>
wrote:
> In article <1180795562.612164.184...@q66g2000hsg.googlegroups .com>,
> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote
>
>
>
> >it is NOT clear to me if gradwell do or don't supply 999 emergency
> >services
>
> Well it seems perfectly clear to me.
>
> If you look at each of their web pages describing the VoIP services on
> offer you will find the link "See our VoIP FAQs". The FAQs page is also
> directly accessible from the main VoIP menu.
>
> In the FAQs you will find:
>
> <quote>
> Q: Are there any phone numbers that VoIP phones can't call?
> A: You can phone most phone numbers, apart from premium numbers. The big exception is the emergency services. You can't call 999 on a VoIP phone
> at present, so in an emergency you would need to also have a mobile or landline.
> </quote>
>
> --
> Bob Evans
ok but their T's & C's contradict that and the regulations specify the
following
10. Where the Service provided by the Service Provider does not
provide access to Emergency Calls, the Service Provider shall:
a) provide the Domestic and Small Business Customers, clear and
readily accessible information at the Point of Signature, in the Terms
and Conditions of Use and in any User Guide; that its Service does not
provide access to Emergency Calls. The same information must also be
provided to prospective Domestic and Small Business Customers as part
of the Sales Process;
b) take reasonable steps to ensure that Domestic and Small Business
Customers acknowledge in the form of a signature (or online
equivalent), at the Point of Signature, that they understand that the
Service will not provide any access to Emergency Calls, (the following
text is an example of the wording that could be used) :
"I understand that this service does not allow calls to the emergency
services numbers 999 and 112."
c) provide evidence to Ofcom of the acknowledgement in paragraph 10
(b) above, within five working days; following a written request from
Ofcom;
d) as part of the Terms and Conditions of Use, supply its Domestic and
Small Business Customer with a clear and readily accessible printed
statement, or an on-screen statement that the Domestic and Small
Business Customer is encouraged to print out, that Emergency Calls
cannot be made using the Service;
e) during the Sales Process, give the Domestic and Small Business
Customer the choice whether to receive Labels (at no charge, other
than reasonable postage and packaging if applicable) which state that
Emergency Calls cannot be made using the Service, and recommend that
the Domestic and Small Business Customer use these Labels on or near
the relevant Service Access Terminal;
· where a screen or display is used with the Service, a Label could be
an on-screen message or display using a clear and readily accessible
graphic, words or icon that Emergency Calls cannot be made using the
Service; or
· in these and other circumstances a Label could be (at the Customer's
choice) either a piece of paper to be attached to the Service Access
Terminal or software facilities for producing such labels (e.g. a PDF
file).
f) if Emergency Calls are made from the Service Access Terminal,
provide a network announcement stating (for example):
"Calls to Emergency Services cannot be made from this handset; please
hang up and call from an alternative telephone service such as a
traditional landline or mobile phone."
g) This announcement shall be interspersed with a Number Unavailable
Tone for the benefit of hearing-impaired users.
On 2 Jun, 16:28, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Paul Cupis" <p...@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:f3rg3q$2tub$1@energise.enta.net
>
> > Ivor Jones wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
>
>
> > > That document states, amongst other things:
>
> > > "The new code of practice requires VoIP providers to
> > > make clear: a.. whether or not the service includes access to
> > > emergency services..." This seems to me to mean that
> > > they must tell you whether or not you can access
> > > emergency services, not that they *must* provide
> > > access. Or am I reading it wrongly..?
>
> > No, you are correct. The regulations do not require VoIP
> > operators to provide 999/112 access, but they do require
> > operators to make it very clear to their users whether
> > 999/112 is available - i.e. they must make the customer
> > aware that it is not supported if it is not.
> > Ofcom are considering further regulations to require
> > access to 999/112 in the future.
>
> Given that one of the prime reasons (for many people, at least, including
> me) is the ability to use the service from anywhere, it seems rather daft
> to insist on the ability to call emergency services. If I'm staying at my
> mate's place in California, I won't be faffing around with a softphone on
> my laptop in order to call 911, I'll use his landline..! I want my VoIP
> numbers with me to keep in touch with home for free.
>
> Ivor- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Personally i think we are getting slightly off track here my original
post was not to moan or complain about any providers i simply asked a
couple of questions that no one has been able to answer.
basically i was asking if these new laws are not being adhered to by
some voip providers what will happen to those provider?
will they be shut down?
if i choose to go with one of those providers am i going to be told
"sorry we have broken the law and we have to close and we cant provide
you a service anymore and we are sorry your business is going to
suffer"
<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180799830.943584.54790@k79g2000hse.googlegro ups.com
[snip]
>
> Personally i think we are getting slightly off track here
> my original post was not to moan or complain about any
> providers i simply asked a couple of questions that no
> one has been able to answer.
>
> basically i was asking if these new laws are not being
> adhered to by some voip providers what will happen to
> those provider?
>
> will they be shut down?
My point is that it *shouldn't matter*. These new "laws" are like so many
this nanny state is introducing now, they are totally unnecessary. It
ought to be perfectly obvious to anyone using a service that relies on
customer-powered equipment like ATA's, routers etc. that unless they make
provision for it by using a UPS or similar, that it won't work when the
power fails.
As for emergency access, I agree that it should be made clear when you
sign up that it is/isn't available, but I don't see why it needs to be at
all. Hardly anybody is going to have VoIP *only* with no other form of
communication, not even a mobile, available. If they are, as far as I'm
concerned, they're fools. No offence intended.
> Personally i think we are getting slightly off track here my original
> post was not to moan or complain about any providers i simply asked a
> couple of questions that no one has been able to answer.
>
> basically i was asking if these new laws are not being adhered to by
> some voip providers what will happen to those provider?
>
> will they be shut down?
I expect the reason no-one has answered your question is that it's a
theoretical irrelevance. You've yet to name a provider who doesn't comply
with the regulations; given that, why are you worrying about it? Why don't
you post asking about your ISP being shut down for breaching RIPA?
> if i choose to go with one of those providers am i going to be told
> "sorry we have broken the law and we have to close and we cant provide
> you a service anymore and we are sorry your business is going to
> suffer"
It's unlikely that all would be lost in the event that a business is 'forced
to close' [whatever that means] - if the business has assets [customer
base, equipment], they'll most likely be liquidated and sold to a
competitor. If the buyer has any hope of keeping the customer base, they'll
do their best to keep the service running.
meisadick@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>
> In both cases it was made clear at the point of sign-up that 999
> services were available and so on as specified in the regulations the
> funny thing is having now chosen to go with www.vonage.co.uk i just
> went to sign up and all what i previously read seems to have
> disappeared have they changed their site? i am now more confused more
> than ever and i think i may well just stick with my bt lines.
Just because it doesn't say so on startup, doesn't mean that they don't
comply with the regulations.
On 3 Jun, 10:46, Tim <nutn...@kooky.org> wrote:
> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>
> > In both cases it was made clear at the point of sign-up that 999
> > services were available and so on as specified in the regulations the
> > funny thing is having now chosen to go withwww.vonage.co.uki just
> > went to sign up and all what i previously read seems to have
> > disappeared have they changed their site? i am now more confused more
> > than ever and i think i may well just stick with my bt lines.
>
> Just because it doesn't say so on startup, doesn't mean that they don't
> comply with the regulations.
>
> Tim
seems quite clear to me
10. Where the Service provided by the Service Provider does not
provide access to Emergency Calls, the Service Provider shall:
a) provide the Domestic and Small Business Customers, clear and
readily accessible information at the Point of Signature, in the
Terms
and Conditions of Use and in any User Guide; that its Service does
not
provide access to Emergency Calls. The same information must also be
provided to prospective Domestic and Small Business Customers as part
of the Sales Process;
clear and readily accessible information at the POINT OF SIGNATURE
The same information must also be provided to prospective Domestic and
Small Business Customers as part
of the Sales Process;
meisadick@hotmail.co.uk wrote :
> On 3 Jun, 10:46, Tim <nutn...@kooky.org> wrote:
>> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
>>
>>> In both cases it was made clear at the point of sign-up that 999
>>> services were available and so on as specified in the regulations the
>>> funny thing is having now chosen to go withwww.vonage.co.uki just
>>> went to sign up and all what i previously read seems to have
>>> disappeared have they changed their site? i am now more confused more
>>> than ever and i think i may well just stick with my bt lines.
>>
>> Just because it doesn't say so on startup, doesn't mean that they don't
>> comply with the regulations.
>>
>> Tim
>
> seems quite clear to me
>
> 10. Where the Service provided by the Service Provider does not
> provide access to Emergency Calls, the Service Provider shall:
>
>
> a) provide the Domestic and Small Business Customers, clear and
> readily accessible information at the Point of Signature, in the
> Terms
> and Conditions of Use and in any User Guide; that its Service does
> not
> provide access to Emergency Calls. The same information must also be
> provided to prospective Domestic and Small Business Customers as part
> of the Sales Process;
>
>
> clear and readily accessible information at the POINT OF SIGNATURE
>
> The same information must also be provided to prospective Domestic and
> Small Business Customers as part
> of the Sales Process;
>
The next step will be for all electricity companies to provide stickers
for all 13 Amp sockets that read "BEWARE. If you use this socket to
connect any telephony equipment, it WILL NOT work in the event of a
power failure"
On 3 Jun, 09:19, alexd <troffa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> meisad...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> > Personally i think we are getting slightly off track here my original
> > post was not to moan or complain about any providers i simply asked a
> > couple of questions that no one has been able to answer.
>
> > basically i was asking if these new laws are not being adhered to by
> > some voip providers what will happen to those provider?
>
> > will they be shut down?
>
> I expect the reason no-one has answered your question is that it's a
> theoretical irrelevance. You've yet to name a provider who doesn't comply
> with the regulations; given that, why are you worrying about it? Why don't
> you post asking about your ISP being shut down for breaching RIPA?
>
> > if i choose to go with one of those providers am i going to be told
> > "sorry we have broken the law and we have to close and we cant provide
> > you a service anymore and we are sorry your business is going to
> > suffer"
>
> It's unlikely that all would be lost in the event that a business is 'forced
> to close' [whatever that means] - if the business has assets [customer
> base, equipment], they'll most likely be liquidated and sold to a
> competitor. If the buyer has any hope of keeping the customer base, they'll
> do their best to keep the service running.
>
> --
> <http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpE...@ale.cx)
> 09:06:31 up 35 days, 11:07, 2 users, load average: 0.40, 0.45, 0.30
> 09 f9 11 02 9d 74 e3 5b d8 41 56 c5 63 56 88 c0
Thanks at last someone that almost answered my questions after almost
42 posts later FYI I did name the companies that I feel have not
complied in my first post and I also named the companies that I feel
have complied.
Having read through these news groups and asking questions I must
admit I have found the replies and posts no help what so ever.
I have since called and emailed a number of providers to get an idea
of what services are available, and what provider would best suite my
needs after having a lengthy and in-depth conversation with a sales
person called Sean I have chosen to go with www.voipfone.co.uk, and so
far I am quite impressed.
I would personally recommend that anyone looking for help or advice
should stay well away from the news groups, as they seem to be full of
sarcastic opinionated people that never directly answer any questions
i therefore wont be posting again.
"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.128c7d76637eb0cd.48968@blueyonder.invalid. ..
> on 02/06/2007, News Reader supposed :
>>
>> (Aside: P.s. Hopefully a few less " / " 's now - for those who have tried
>> to help on that front :) ).
>
> And there I was, about to admonish you in a different thread, as I'd
> thought you'd forgotten. Nested brackets are a little tricky to read too -
> like reading algebra!
>
> :-)
>
>
Hmmm..... yes... true.... but useful..... (i.e. they are useful)...
lol
I wouldn't worry I have been having something of a prolonged debate about
this with myself.
I won't bore you at this stage.
Thanks again.
Best wishes,
News Reader
P.s. Sadly, the OP ( " Tom " ), doesn't appear to have replied to my post,
but still, I think he was getting rather worn out by it all by the time he
got to this post. Anyhow... lol... all good :) .
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:5cctq0F2o9muqU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.128c7d76637eb0cd.48968@blueyonder.invalid
>> on 02/06/2007, News Reader supposed :
>> >
>> > (Aside: P.s. Hopefully a few less " / " 's now - for
>> > those who have tried to help on that front :) ).
>>
>> And there I was, about to admonish you in a different
>> thread, as I'd thought you'd forgotten. Nested brackets
>> are a little tricky to read too - like reading algebra!
>>
>> :-)
>
> RPN (Reverse Polish Notation) works well with those..! Although those old
> HP calculators with it don't seem to be around now, more's the pity.
>
> Ivor
>
>
<meisadick@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1180619131.524049.138060@q66g2000hsg.googlegr oups.com...
> Afternoon I hope that someone on here could answer a couple of
> questions for me
>
> Either I am being dumb or I am completely missing something I have
> been considering moving the telecoms for my business and home over to
> VoIP for a while now and have spent the last month or so doing a lot
> of reading and trying to weigh up what provider is going to be best
> for me.
>
> I am aware that new regulation for the VoIP industry came in to force
> on the 29th of this month yet I have only been able to find 2
> providers that seem to be adhering to these new laws www.vonage.co.uk
> and www.voipfone.co.uk this limits my options unless I am repaired to
> take a chance on one of the companies that would seem to be NOT
> sticking to the rules for example www.gradwell.com, www.voip.co.uk,
> www.voiptalk.org, www.tescointernetphone.com, www.timico.co.uk
>
> I'm quite confused as to why these regulations are being ignored by
> the vast majority of VoIP providers is there not some sort of
> regulatory body that is supposed to ensure that these rules and
> regulations are adhered to or is it only offcom ? In addition, how can
> these new laws just be ignored?
>
> Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
>
Hi,
Quick question if I can... your e-mail address / posting name, seems a
little curious for someone who takes continuity of service, legal
interpretation and review, etc. so seriously?
> Thanks at last someone that almost answered my questions after almost
> 42 posts later FYI I did name the companies that I feel have not
> complied in my first post and I also named the companies that I feel
> have complied.
Whether or not you 'feel' they're compliant is irrelevant. They are
compliant. So, once again, as you can't name any ITSP who isn't compliant,
don't worry about it!
> Having read through these news groups and asking questions I must
> admit I have found the replies and posts no help what so ever.
Perhaps you could re-read some of the posts, including some of the posts
you've quoted?
> I would personally recommend that anyone looking for help or advice
> should stay well away from the news groups, as they seem to be full of
> sarcastic opinionated people that never directly answer any questions
> i therefore wont be posting again.
If you can't take the time to read the advice people have given you, then
staying away from newsgroups is probably a good idea.
"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
news:mn.1afc7d7637229998.48968@blueyonder.invalid
[snip]
> The next step will be for all electricity companies to
> provide stickers for all 13 Amp sockets that read
> "BEWARE. If you use this socket to connect any telephony
> equipment, it WILL NOT work in the event of a power
> failure"
BEWARE..! If you stick your fingers in this socket while it's switched on,
you WILL get an electric shock and may well be killed..!
Ye gods do we have to tell people *everything*..?!
It would never occur to me to expect a mains powered system to work
without power..! Nor would I expect a service that can be used from
anywhere in the world to automatically provide emergency services access.
From Sipgate's FAQ page:
>4. Do I have access to Emergency Services by dialling 999 or 112?
>
>We currently do not provide access to Emergency Services (ES).
>VoIP is a relatively new technology and using IP (Internet Protocol)
>it is migratory in nature. This means if you are in Hong Kong and dial
>999, the Emergency Services have no way to pinpoint your location.
>We expect that integration will eventually come where these services
> are provided to those that give an address that ES can be sent to in an
>emergency.
>
> Personally i think we are getting slightly off track here my original
> post was not to moan or complain about any providers i simply asked a
> couple of questions that no one has been able to answer.
>
If you wanted a legal opinion you might have been better off posting
on a legal newsgroup.
> basically i was asking if these new laws are not being adhered to by
> some voip providers what will happen to those provider?
>
They are not laws. They are codes of conduct which OFCOM may regulate
within the limits of its powers. For persistent failure to comply
OFCOM would be likely to fine a perpetrator, unless they are
financially unviable this would not put them out of business.
OFCOM has made it clear that it wants to work with the VoIP industry
in putting this in place - rather than taking a confrontational or
punitive position.
> will they be shut down?
>
Nope.
> if i choose to go with one of those providers am i going to be told
> "sorry we have broken the law and we have to close and we cant provide
> you a service anymore and we are sorry your business is going to
> suffer"
>
Only if they use OFCOM as a flimsy excuse for business failure.
In message <5cg78jF3144q2U1@mid.individual.net>, Ivor Jones
<ivor@despammed.invalid> writes
>"Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
>news:mn.1afc7d7637229998.48968@blueyonder.inval id
>
>[snip]
>
>> The next step will be for all electricity companies to
>> provide stickers for all 13 Amp sockets that read
>> "BEWARE. If you use this socket to connect any telephony
>> equipment, it WILL NOT work in the event of a power
>> failure"
>
>BEWARE..! If you stick your fingers in this socket while it's switched on,
>you WILL get an electric shock and may well be killed..!
>
>Ye gods do we have to tell people *everything*..?!
>
>It would never occur to me to expect a mains powered system to work
>without power..! Nor would I expect a service that can be used from
>anywhere in the world to automatically provide emergency services access.
And therein lies the reason why people need a sticker to tell them, the
*vast* majority of telephones work without mains power and a telephone
that has a dial tone should be able to call for an ambulance to wipe
their nose or taxi them to hospital regardless of where they are in the
world. The great unwashed have a hard time with anything 'techy' and
VOIP is a system that does a great job of appearing non-techy so
explaining limitations of such a system would be even more difficult
when 'my old phone didn't need mains to work'
--
Clint Sharp
In message <1180871227.544118.32230@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups. com>, meisadick@hotmail.co.uk writes
>Having read through these news groups and asking questions I must
>admit I have found the replies and posts no help what so ever.
>
>I have since called and emailed a number of providers to get an idea
>of what services are available, and what provider would best suite my
>needs after having a lengthy and in-depth conversation with a sales
>person called Sean I have chosen to go with www.voipfone.co.uk, and so
>far I am quite impressed.
I wonder what they think of you :-(
>I would personally recommend that anyone looking for help or advice
>should stay well away from the news groups, as they seem to be full of
>sarcastic opinionated people that never directly answer any questions
>i therefore wont be posting again.
Is that a promise or a 'threat'? Now just go back to the Health and
Safety day job, I'm sure they see you as a great ambassador!
In message <1180871227.544118.32230@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups. com>, meisadick@hotmail.co.uk writes
> am quite impressed.
>
>I would personally recommend that anyone looking for help or advice
>should stay well away from the news groups, as they seem to be full of
>sarcastic opinionated people that never directly answer any questions
>i therefore wont be posting again.
Bye bye... Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
>
>Tom
>
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:5cg78jF3144q2U1@mid.individual.net...
> "Jono" <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid> wrote in message
> news:mn.1afc7d7637229998.48968@blueyonder.invalid
>
> [snip]
>
>> The next step will be for all electricity companies to
>> provide stickers for all 13 Amp sockets that read
>> "BEWARE. If you use this socket to connect any telephony
>> equipment, it WILL NOT work in the event of a power
>> failure"
>
> BEWARE..! If you stick your fingers in this socket while it's switched on,
> you WILL get an electric shock and may well be killed..!
>
> Ye gods do we have to tell people *everything*..?!
>
> It would never occur to me to expect a mains powered system to work
> without power..! Nor would I expect a service that can be used from
> anywhere in the world to automatically provide emergency services access.
>
> From Sipgate's FAQ page:
>
>>4. Do I have access to Emergency Services by dialling 999 or 112?
>>
>>We currently do not provide access to Emergency Services (ES).
>>VoIP is a relatively new technology and using IP (Internet Protocol)
>>it is migratory in nature. This means if you are in Hong Kong and dial
>>999, the Emergency Services have no way to pinpoint your location.
>>We expect that integration will eventually come where these services
>> are provided to those that give an address that ES can be sent to in an
>>emergency.
I have this mental image of a queue of ambulances and fire
appliances waiting to embark at Dover.
What is that at the end of your posting Ivor, It's not the
anti-MS Q260822 thing. It's not a gif binary is it?
haven forefend!
--
"Graham" <me@privacy.com> wrote in message
news:f3vb5q$k5t$1@news.datemas.de...
>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5cg78jF3144q2U1@mid.individual.net...
>> From Sipgate's FAQ page:
>>
>>>4. Do I have access to Emergency Services by dialling 999 or 112?
>>>
>>>We currently do not provide access to Emergency Services (ES).
>>>VoIP is a relatively new technology and using IP (Internet Protocol)
>>>it is migratory in nature. This means if you are in Hong Kong and
>>>dial
>>>999, the Emergency Services have no way to pinpoint your location.
>>>We expect that integration will eventually come where these services
>>> are provided to those that give an address that ES can be sent to in
>>> an
>>>emergency.
>
> I have this mental image of a queue of ambulances and fire
> appliances waiting to embark at Dover.
>
> What is that at the end of your posting Ivor, It's not the
> anti-MS Q260822 thing. It's not a gif binary is it?
> haven forefend!
I have just received an email from Voipfone stating that they are now
providing access to emergency service numbers. There is a form to fill
in on their website, with the postal address assigned to the outgoing
number, these details submitted can then be used by the emergency
services.
<Quotes from the Voipfone site>
You may register your phone and address with the Emergency Services data
base so that when you dial 999 or 112 they have your details on screen
in front of them.
This can be vitally important if you or your visitors don't know the
exact details of where you are or can't communicate them for some
reason.
You should enter you information carefully in the form below then press
send.
Your details are sent immediately but it may take some time for records
to be amended by the Emergency Services.
If you have several numbers with us, the one that you have set as your
Calling Line Identity (CLI) will be shown. If you have no CLI set,
please choose your preferred number from the dropdown menu.
PBX Users
If you have one main location, submit your form while logged into your
master account ie the 3xxxxxxx account number.
If you have extensions in several locations you can enter the address
for each SO LONG AS YOU HAVE A TELEPHONE NUMBER ATTACHED TO THEM. ie a
DDI number, not just an extension number. To do this, log into your
extension's account ie 3xxxxxxx*2xx and submit from there
Calls to 999 and 112 services are free.
Whenever you move home or office please update these details.
You cannot register from outside the UK
When you call 999 or 112 you will be required to confirm your
location.
Your entered details will be shared with the Emergency Services
(and intermediaries) for their exclusive use in handling 999 and 112
calls only. By pressing 'send' you are giving us permission to share
your information with them.
Emergency calls may fail if you have a power cut or your broadband
connection fails. It's always best to have a second means of contacting
the Emergency Services such as a mobile phone or an old fashioned,
wired, phone plugged into the PSTN.
It is an offense to deliberately enter incorrect details AND it
put lives at risk.
VoIP originated Emergency Calls may have to pass over the public
internet where it will not receive the same network priority or quality
assurance as an Emergency Call made on a mobile network or on a
circuit-switched fixed line.
Tim wrote:
> Ivor Jones wrote:
>> These "rules" you keep mentioning, can you summarise them for me please..?
>> What are they and why would a company have to close for non-compliance..?
>
> I can't find the relevant ofcom document, even though I've read it recently.
>
> But it comes down to:
>
> 1) ITSPs must provide access to 999 services. I guess that means 112 as
> well.
>
No, my understanding is that you must only do 999 if you also do number
portability.
meisadick@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> it is NOT clear to me if gradwell do or don't supply 999 emergency
> services although after digging deep in to their terms and conditions
> i did find the following lines.
Today, we do not connect emergency calls. I expect this to change very soon.
Also, our understanding of the OFCOM rules is that /we/ do not have to
connect 999 calls, because you only have to connect them if you are a
PATS operator and if you do number portability.
We do not technically do number portability - we offer it as a service
resold from two larger telcos who inturn, do offer 999.
Obviously, at the moment, we are within the letter of the law, but, it
would be better if we did connect 999 calls (where possible), and it is
my plan to do so fairly soon (we're in the process of doing the
implementation, we're just a bit behind).
We are very keen on 999 - I have spent the last two years on the
OFCOM/NICC working group discussing the technical solutions to the problem.
"Peter Gradwell" <peter@gradwell.com> wrote in message
news:46652131$0$640$bed64819@news.gradwell.net...
> Tim wrote:
>> Ivor Jones wrote:
>>> These "rules" you keep mentioning, can you summarise them for me
>>> please..? What are they and why would a company have to close for
>>> non-compliance..?
>>
>> I can't find the relevant ofcom document, even though I've read it
>> recently.
>>
>> But it comes down to:
>>
>> 1) ITSPs must provide access to 999 services. I guess that means 112
>> as
>> well.
>>
>
> No, my understanding is that you must only do 999 if you also do
> number portability.
>
If I recall correctly, your 'understanding' of the VAT regulations in
relation to advertising to private individuals left a lot to be desired.
I see you are now stating on the pages that your prices are exclusive of
VAT, which is an improvement, but you are still not stating the VAT
inclusive prices on the page aimed at private individuals, why is this?
Why not be totally open, and in line with most other reputable
companies, and just state the VAT inclusive prices on adverts aimed at
private individuals.
To save you the trouble of working these out, (to the nearest 1p).
£4.00 plus VAT = £4.70
£8.50 plus VAT = £9.99
1.25p plus VAT = 1.47p
12p plus VAT = 14.1p
> In both cases it was made clear at the point of sign-up that 999
> services were available and so on as specified in the regulations the
> funny thing is having now chosen to go with www.vonage.co.uk i just
> went to sign up and all what i previously read seems to have
> disappeared have they changed their site? i am now more confused more
> than ever and i think i may well just stick with my bt lines.
Well, you seem to have chosen badly. Vonage are famous for being
useless. They're not really in the UK, so maybe these regulations don't
apply to them anyway?
voip.co.uk are better, cheaper and provide a 999 service which is
properly set up when you join. Like so many other things, it is not
necessary to specify every little detail in marketing material, whatever
your views.
But you looked at voip.co.uk and decided they did not comply with your
bizarre interpretation of the regulations, so why let facts get in the
way of your rant?
Re: providers and voip regulations 
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