SIPDiscount.com - Free Call Account Enabling

*** (Aside / Note:) - Could somebody please copy this to uk.telecom.voip as
I do not have posting access to that group. (THANKS) ***

Hi,

After VOIPBuster.com dropped a number of free foreign destinations and then
the UK too I was slightly saddened but not surprised.

I was however then very pleased to see / discover SIPDiscount.com (by the
same [company] family I am sure).

Not seeing much point in trying using their free / default test account
first (username: test password: test @ sip.sipdiscount.com) I went straight
for registering understanding that / reading there website as saying that
this would then entitle the user to use of the service for all the current
Supper Deal FREE call destinations (see "Want to enjoy unlimited calls?
Click here to register." at the bottom right on the home page and most other
pages of www.sipdiscount.com ).

However having registered using their registration software and successfully
created an account and registering with their SIP server I have only been
able to:

- for the first few days - make upto 1 minute calls (After which "your
free call has ended" message and call disconnected) to the free super deal
(free / 0 eurocents/min) destinations
- latterly - not make any calls as the message received is "you have run
out of credit" (not that I ever had any)

Can anyone advise if it is necessary to add credit to an account before the
service can truly / really be used to call the current Super Deal "free"
locations without limit (i.e. unlimited / not one minute calls or only
chargeable calls [including to / for / of the destinations believed to be
free / 0 eurocents per minute under the current Super Deal destination
prices).

I.e. How can one get greater than one minute calls to the free destinations
/ current super deal free / 0 eurocent per minute destinations?

On a different note / another matter, after the waning of free destinations
on voipbuster.com (and a number / the number of international destinations
on voipcheap.co.uk), does anyone have any idea which of SIPDiscount.com or
voipcheap.co.uk might be the better plan / option better for long(er/ish?)
term free UK calls and also any thoughts about the: "it's beta software;
current promotional / super deal / free calls / prices / pricing with
unknown promotional period / offer ending / removal" approach of these
Finarea group companies?

I.e. If you put credit on one of these services to get access to there
"beta" service with "special promotional" pricing about which you know
nothing (particularly how long it will last, destination additions and
removals, etc.) do you get value for your minimum credit purchase / your
thoughts / etc.? lol

Thanks in advance and all advice and guidance / input etc. appreciated.


Best wishes,



News Reader

On 2005-11-05, News Reader <some@where.com> wrote:

[Snip]

> I.e. How can one get greater than one minute calls to the free destinations
> / current super deal free / 0 eurocent per minute destinations?

Login to your acount and give them some money. 5 euro was sufficient
last time I looked.

[Snip]

> I.e. If you put credit on one of these services to get access to there
> "beta" service with "special promotional" pricing about which you know
> nothing (particularly how long it will last, destination additions and
> removals, etc.) do you get value for your minimum credit purchase / your
> thoughts / etc.? lol

You get to phone some destinations for free. You take advantage of
this. If all these destinations disappeared tomorrow you would still
have your 5 euro. Seems good value to me.

> Thanks in advance and all advice and guidance / input etc. appreciated.

I hope you do mean *all* advice is appreciated because if you do not
have permission to use where.com as your From: domain it is likely you
are breaking you ISP's AUP.

Brian.

Brian wrote:
> On 2005-11-05, News Reader <some@where.com> wrote:
>>I.e. How can one get greater than one minute calls to the free destinations
>>/ current super deal free / 0 eurocent per minute destinations?
>
> Login to your acount and give them some money. 5 euro was sufficient
> last time I looked.
>
>>I.e. If you put credit on one of these services to get access to there
>>"beta" service with "special promotional" pricing about which you know
>>nothing (particularly how long it will last, destination additions and
>>removals, etc.) do you get value for your minimum credit purchase / your
>>thoughts / etc.? lol
>
> You get to phone some destinations for free. You take advantage of
> this. If all these destinations disappeared tomorrow you would still
> have your 5 euro. Seems good value to me.

I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
inclusive of VAT? Apart from that, when I log into my account now, it
says I have 5 euros credit, rather than 5.80. No mention of VAT
anywhere. Surely that can't be right?

On 2005-11-05, Chris <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote:
>
> Brian wrote:
>>
>> You get to phone some destinations for free. You take advantage of
>> this. If all these destinations disappeared tomorrow you would still
>> have your 5 euro. Seems good value to me.
>
> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
> inclusive of VAT? Apart from that, when I log into my account now, it
> says I have 5 euros credit, rather than 5.80. No mention of VAT
> anywhere. Surely that can't be right?

Thanks for the reminder; I had completely forgotten about the VAT. It
was a little irksome at the time, partly because I could not recollect
Finarea adding VAT to any of my previous purchases. The tariffs are
given with and without tax so it would be consistent to do the same for
payments into an account.

I don't think there is an obligation to quote VAT inclusive prices, but
could be wrong. Didn't advertisers in computer magazines originally
give prices as VAT exclusive until pressure from buyers caused them to
change that policy. There is the argument that Finarea do charge you 5
euro but the government adds 0.80 euro. Which is why, of course, our
credit with Sipdiscount is not 5.80.

Brian.

"Brian" <bandj@o2.co.uk> wrote in message
news:dkj1cr$6h3$1$830fa795@news.demon.co.uk...
> On 2005-11-05, Chris <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote:
> >
> > Brian wrote:
> >>


Thanks for all your input.

I will try to determine if 5 euros credit is worth an unknown period of use
of the free calls.

I think voipcheap may be a better option as a / the service which might
retain free UK calls for longer.

Thanks once again.

Best wishes,



News Reader

P.s. The where.com domain may not be the best to use and probably .invalid
might be more appropriate or a domain name with invalid domain name
characters in it. Thanks.

Brian wrote:
> On 2005-11-05, Chris <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote:
>
>>Brian wrote:
>>
>>>You get to phone some destinations for free. You take advantage of
>>>this. If all these destinations disappeared tomorrow you would still
>>>have your 5 euro. Seems good value to me.
>>
>>I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>>calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
>>5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
>>VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
>>people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
>>inclusive of VAT? Apart from that, when I log into my account now, it
>>says I have 5 euros credit, rather than 5.80. No mention of VAT
>>anywhere. Surely that can't be right?
>
>
> Thanks for the reminder; I had completely forgotten about the VAT. It
> was a little irksome at the time, partly because I could not recollect
> Finarea adding VAT to any of my previous purchases. The tariffs are
> given with and without tax so it would be consistent to do the same for
> payments into an account.
>
> I don't think there is an obligation to quote VAT inclusive prices, but
> could be wrong. Didn't advertisers in computer magazines originally
> give prices as VAT exclusive until pressure from buyers caused them to
> change that policy. There is the argument that Finarea do charge you 5
> euro but the government adds 0.80 euro. Which is why, of course, our
> credit with Sipdiscount is not 5.80.

Well, if I pay VAT elsewhere, I see it on my invoices. I asked the
SipDiscount helpdesk about this over a week ago, but the Swiss shylocks
have yet to offer a reply...

In message of Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Chris writes
>Brian wrote:
>> On 2005-11-05, Chris <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote:
>>
>>>Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>>You get to phone some destinations for free. You take advantage of
>>>>this. If all these destinations disappeared tomorrow you would still
>>>>have your 5 euro. Seems good value to me.
>>>
>>>I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>>>calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT =
>>>EUR 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is
>>>exlusive of VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the
>>>checkout. Aren't people selling to consumers under an obligation to
>>>quote prices inclusive of VAT? Apart from that, when I log into my
>>>account now, it says I have 5 euros credit, rather than 5.80. No
>>>mention of VAT anywhere. Surely that can't be right?
>> Thanks for the reminder; I had completely forgotten about the VAT.
>>It
>> was a little irksome at the time, partly because I could not recollect
>> Finarea adding VAT to any of my previous purchases. The tariffs are
>> given with and without tax so it would be consistent to do the same for
>> payments into an account.
>> I don't think there is an obligation to quote VAT inclusive prices,
>>but
>> could be wrong. Didn't advertisers in computer magazines originally
>> give prices as VAT exclusive until pressure from buyers caused them to
>> change that policy. There is the argument that Finarea do charge you 5
>> euro but the government adds 0.80 euro. Which is why, of course, our
>> credit with Sipdiscount is not 5.80.
>
>Well, if I pay VAT elsewhere, I see it on my invoices. I asked the
>SipDiscount helpdesk about this over a week ago, but the Swiss shylocks
>have yet to offer a reply...

The Swiss are not subject to UK or EU laws

"Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote in message
news:1131212353.19845.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
> Brian wrote:

> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
> inclusive of VAT?

SIPDiscount is not a UK service provider, neither are their users just in
the UK alone
How could they possibly quote prices VAT included? I assume in the EEC, the
VAT rate depends on the country of the Purchaser (not the Seller), therefore
it can only be added during the transaction ...
I guess if you would have mentioned your country being outside EU (e.g. USA)
you may not have been charged VAT. However they may check on your credit
card, thus you may have to use a US credit card to get VAT excemption ???

rgds
Philippe
Belgium

On 2005-11-06, Philippe Deleye <Philippe.Deleye@blablabla.advalvas.be> wrote:
>
> "Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote in message
> news:1131212353.19845.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
>> Brian wrote:
>
>> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
>> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
>> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
>> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
>> inclusive of VAT?
>
> SIPDiscount is not a UK service provider, neither are their users just in
> the UK alone
> How could they possibly quote prices VAT included? I assume in the EEC, the
> VAT rate depends on the country of the Purchaser (not the Seller), therefore
> it can only be added during the transaction ...
> I guess if you would have mentioned your country being outside EU (e.g. USA)
> you may not have been charged VAT. However they may check on your credit
> card, thus you may have to use a US credit card to get VAT excemption ???

It's not too big a deal, but you have your attributions a little mixed
up here. It was "Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> who made the comment
you have quoted.

Brian.

Thus spaketh Philippe Deleye:
> "Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote in message
> news:1131212353.19845.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
>> Brian wrote:
>
>> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT =
>> EUR
>> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
>> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
>> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
>> inclusive of VAT?
>
> SIPDiscount is not a UK service provider, neither are their users
> just in the UK alone
> How could they possibly quote prices VAT included? I assume in the
> EEC, the VAT rate depends on the country of the Purchaser (not the
> Seller), therefore it can only be added during the transaction ...
> I guess if you would have mentioned your country being outside EU
> (e.g. USA) you may not have been charged VAT. However they may check
> on your credit card, thus you may have to use a US credit card to get
> VAT excemption ???
>
> rgds
> Philippe
> Belgium

VAT rate depends on the country of the purchaser, unless only limited trade is
done within that country then the rate of the country of the seller is used.

In message of Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Philippe Deleye writes
>
>"Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote in message
>news:1131212353.19845.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
>> Brian wrote:
>
>> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
>> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
>> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
>> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
>> inclusive of VAT?
>
>SIPDiscount is not a UK service provider, neither are their users just in
>the UK alone
>How could they possibly quote prices VAT included? I assume in the EEC,

They are not in the EU, they are in Switzerland. They charge the Swiss
VAT rate of 8%.

>the
>VAT rate depends on the country of the Purchaser (not the Seller),

Not so.

David Floyd wrote:
> In message of Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Philippe Deleye writes
>
>>
>> "Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote in message
>> news:1131212353.19845.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
>>
>>> Brian wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>>> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
>>> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
>>> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
>>> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
>>> inclusive of VAT?
>>
>>
>> SIPDiscount is not a UK service provider, neither are their users just in
>> the UK alone
>> How could they possibly quote prices VAT included? I assume in the EEC,
>
>
> They are not in the EU, they are in Switzerland. They charge the Swiss
> VAT rate of 8%.

Which makes me even more curious why they charged me 80 cents VAT on a
sum of 5 euros...

In message of Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Chris writes
>David Floyd wrote:
>> In message of Sun, 6 Nov 2005, Philippe Deleye writes
>>
>>>
>>> "Chris" <chris.hopley@gmail.com.z> wrote in message
>>> news:1131212353.19845.0@echo.uk.clara.net...
>>>
>>>> Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I wanted to add 5 euros to my account to take advantage of the free
>>>> calls to the free destinations, but ended up paying 5 euros + VAT = EUR
>>>> 5.80. That's OK if you realise that the 5 euros quoted is exlusive of
>>>> VAT, but that's not made clear until you get to the checkout. Aren't
>>>> people selling to consumers under an obligation to quote prices
>>>> inclusive of VAT?
>>>
>>>
>>> SIPDiscount is not a UK service provider, neither are their users just in
>>> the UK alone
>>> How could they possibly quote prices VAT included? I assume in the EEC,
>> They are not in the EU, they are in Switzerland. They charge the
>>Swiss VAT rate of 8%.
>
>Which makes me even more curious why they charged me 80 cents VAT on a
>sum of 5 euros...

Now I'm confused, because the VAT inclusive price on their tarrifs page
looks as though their VAT rate is 7.5%

Whereas VoIPBuster (part of the same group) site suggests that the VAT
rate is 16%