VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
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VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) has recently ruled that Dell
Computers misled customers when advertising items to the general public,
the ASA stated that when advertising good to the general public, VAT
inclusive prices must be quoted, and these VAT inclusive prices must be
at least as prominent as the VAT exclusive price if the VAT exclusive
price is used, in other words, the VAT inclusive price must be stated
alongside the VAT exclusive price, and the type face used must be at
least as large and as clear as the VAT exclusive price.
Below is a quote from the article in PCPro magazine, the links to the
article and the ASA ruling are given below the quote, so please, if you
are a business, and selling goods or items to the general public, as
well as to other companies, lets have VAT inclusive prices quoted in
your adverts, and stop trying to hide behind the mistaken belief that
you do not have to comply with the law on quoting VAT inclusive prices
in your adverts.
<Quote> 'We nevertheless considered that, because the insert targeted
both the general public and businesses, the VAT-inclusive prices should
have been given at least equal prominence to the VAT-exclusive prices.
We also considered that, because the desktops could be of interest to
non-business users who would be unable to get a desktop for £199, the
approach of using a "from" price excluding VAT was misleading. '
ASA told Dell to take greater care in future. Specifically, it should
'avoid errors that could lead to consumer disappointment'. The
organisation also told Dell to ensure that VAT-inclusive and
VAT-exclusive prices were quoted with equal prominence in adverts with a
general readership. </Quote>
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
Although our eBay listings inc VAT, the ASA ruling will not affect eBay,
unless eBay changed the policy on VAT & make sellers either list with VAT
inc or to show the correct price within the listing & not just "17.5% VAT
will be added to the final price".
It should be standard practice everywhere to quote the full price inc VAT
rather than the exc VAT price, which is normally shown as buy x from £xxxx
to mislead customer thinking its a good deal only to add 17.5% to the final
price.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>
> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) has recently ruled that Dell
> Computers misled customers when advertising items to the general public,
> the ASA stated that when advertising good to the general public, VAT
> inclusive prices must be quoted, and these VAT inclusive prices must be
> at least as prominent as the VAT exclusive price if the VAT exclusive
> price is used, in other words, the VAT inclusive price must be stated
> alongside the VAT exclusive price, and the type face used must be at
> least as large and as clear as the VAT exclusive price.
>
> Below is a quote from the article in PCPro magazine, the links to the
> article and the ASA ruling are given below the quote, so please, if you
> are a business, and selling goods or items to the general public, as
> well as to other companies, lets have VAT inclusive prices quoted in
> your adverts, and stop trying to hide behind the mistaken belief that
> you do not have to comply with the law on quoting VAT inclusive prices
> in your adverts.
>
> <Quote> 'We nevertheless considered that, because the insert targeted
> both the general public and businesses, the VAT-inclusive prices should
> have been given at least equal prominence to the VAT-exclusive prices.
> We also considered that, because the desktops could be of interest to
> non-business users who would be unable to get a desktop for £199, the
> approach of using a "from" price excluding VAT was misleading. '
>
> ASA told Dell to take greater care in future. Specifically, it should
> 'avoid errors that could lead to consumer disappointment'. The
> organisation also told Dell to ensure that VAT-inclusive and
> VAT-exclusive prices were quoted with equal prominence in adverts with a
> general readership. </Quote>
>
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk:80/news/99545...-says-asa.html
>
> http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudicati..._ADJ_42026.htm
>
>
>
Thanks for information.
It will be fair on customers if both prices are displayed in same size.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Raj" <raj@(remove...)kundracomputers.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5DMlh.204075$bz5.125169@fe3.news.blueyonder.c o.uk...
>
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently
>> about
>> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when
>> advertising
>> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive
>> prices
>> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from
>> quoting
>> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>>
>> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency) has recently ruled that Dell
>> Computers misled customers when advertising items to the general
>> public,
>> the ASA stated that when advertising good to the general public, VAT
>> inclusive prices must be quoted, and these VAT inclusive prices must
>> be
>> at least as prominent as the VAT exclusive price if the VAT exclusive
>> price is used, in other words, the VAT inclusive price must be stated
>> alongside the VAT exclusive price, and the type face used must be at
>> least as large and as clear as the VAT exclusive price.
>>
>> Below is a quote from the article in PCPro magazine, the links to the
>> article and the ASA ruling are given below the quote, so please, if
>> you
>> are a business, and selling goods or items to the general public, as
>> well as to other companies, lets have VAT inclusive prices quoted in
>> your adverts, and stop trying to hide behind the mistaken belief that
>> you do not have to comply with the law on quoting VAT inclusive
>> prices
>> in your adverts.
>>
>> <Quote> 'We nevertheless considered that, because the insert targeted
>> both the general public and businesses, the VAT-inclusive prices
>> should
>> have been given at least equal prominence to the VAT-exclusive
>> prices.
>> We also considered that, because the desktops could be of interest to
>> non-business users who would be unable to get a desktop for £199, the
>> approach of using a "from" price excluding VAT was misleading. '
>>
>> ASA told Dell to take greater care in future. Specifically, it should
>> 'avoid errors that could lead to consumer disappointment'. The
>> organisation also told Dell to ensure that VAT-inclusive and
>> VAT-exclusive prices were quoted with equal prominence in adverts
>> with a
>> general readership. </Quote>
>>
>> http://www.pcpro.co.uk:80/news/99545...-says-asa.html
>>
>> http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudicati..._ADJ_42026.htm
>>
>
> Thanks for information.
> It will be fair on customers if both prices are displayed in same
> size.
>
> Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?
>
This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
documentation. The ruling by the ASA, against a high profile company,
has now made it much clearer, and hopefully, companies will act on it as
soon as possible to avoid being reported to the ASA themselves. I cannot
see any justification for quoting VAT exclusive prices for goods or
items offered for sale to the general public, other than to mislead, and
any company doing this needs reporting.
Regarding eBay, perhaps someone should send a copy of the ruling to
them, it is probably their responsibility to remove any advertisement
which doesn't comply with the ASA ruling, and eBay should enforce it.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:47:52 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
<sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote:
>This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
>to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
>documentation.
What is difficult to understand or define or "legal jargon" about :-
"Obligation to indicate selling price
4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2) and articles 9 and 10, where
a trader indicates that any product is or may be for sale to a
consumer, he shall indicate the selling price of that product in
accordance with the provisions of this Order."
""selling price" means the final price for a unit of a product, or a
given quantity of a product, including VAT and all other taxes;"
(Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 102 The Price Marking Order 2004)
>The ruling by the ASA, against a high profile company,
>has now made it much clearer,
ASA "rulings" (actually they are adjudications) have no particular
weight at all, the ASA is a private body set up and funded by the
advertising industry and its adjudications have no statutory
significance.
>I cannot see any justification for quoting VAT exclusive prices for goods or
>items offered for sale to the general public, other than to mislead, and
>any company doing this needs reporting.
To Trading Standards as they are breaking the law - not the ASA which
is a toothless tiger.
>Regarding eBay, perhaps someone should send a copy of the ruling to
>them, it is probably their responsibility to remove any advertisement
>which doesn't comply with the ASA ruling, and eBay should enforce it.
It isn't their responsibility as ASA adjudications have no legal
significance whatsoever.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Peter Parry" <peter@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:igafp2lqf63dh59v9spj66hj5g2uoo8d42@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:47:52 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
> <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote:
>
>>This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
>>to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
>>documentation.
>
> What is difficult to understand or define or "legal jargon" about :-
>
> "Obligation to indicate selling price
> 4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2) and articles 9 and 10, where
> a trader indicates that any product is or may be for sale to a
> consumer, he shall indicate the selling price of that product in
> accordance with the provisions of this Order."
>
> ""selling price" means the final price for a unit of a product, or a
> given quantity of a product, including VAT and all other taxes;"
>
> (Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 102 The Price Marking Order 2004)
>
It was stated earlier that companies supplying other companies have been
using the excuse that they are entitled to state VAT exclusive prices to
the general public because VAT exclusive prices are the prices they use
normally. Although I have never agreed with this, it has been hard to
find a clear example to show how they are wrong, and so the ASA ruling,
or adjudication, against Dell has now made this much clearer by
combining the sales to the general public with the sales to other
businesses, and stating it in their ruling. I am sure that Dell's
lawyers would have gone through the details with a fine tooth comb
before apologising for their mistake, so the point I was making with
this thread was that all sales and services, offered with stated prices
to the general public, must include the VAT inclusive price, which must
be displayed as prominently as the VAT exclusive price if a VAT
exclusive price is used, irrespective of if the company supplies mostly
other VAT registered companies.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Bargepole" <"=?x-user-defined?Q? Þ @ Þ ?="> wrote in message
news:an9fp2heias2j577pk73dbnjd28josobgk@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 10:51:45 GMT, "Raj"
> <raj@(remove...)kundracomputers.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?
>
> Cheatbay doesn'r enforce anything. I wouldn't touch them...
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Peter Parry" <peter@wpp.ltd.uk> wrote in message
news:igafp2lqf63dh59v9spj66hj5g2uoo8d42@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:47:52 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
> <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote:
>
>>This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
>>to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
>>documentation.
>
> What is difficult to understand or define or "legal jargon" about :-
>
> "Obligation to indicate selling price
> 4. - (1) Subject to paragraph (2) and articles 9 and 10, where
> a trader indicates that any product is or may be for sale to a
> consumer, he shall indicate the selling price of that product in
> accordance with the provisions of this Order."
>
> ""selling price" means the final price for a unit of a product, or a
> given quantity of a product, including VAT and all other taxes;"
>
> (Statutory Instrument 2004 No. 102 The Price Marking Order 2004)
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Richard Colton" <webmaster@NOJUNKuselessinfo.org.uk> wrote in message
news:F9Qlh.23635$k74.9978@text.news.blueyonder.co. uk...
>
> "Bargepole" <"=?x-user-defined?Q? Þ @ Þ ?="> wrote in message
> news:an9fp2heias2j577pk73dbnjd28josobgk@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 10:51:45 GMT, "Raj"
>> <raj@(remove...)kundracomputers.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Question: Will E bay enforce this as well?
>>
>> Cheatbay doesn'r enforce anything. I wouldn't touch them...
>
> Change the record.
>
Interestingly. Tazbar have been running TV ads. Wonder how well they are
really doing.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:01:05 -0000, "Harry Stottle"
<sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote:
>It was stated earlier that companies supplying other companies have been
>using the excuse that they are entitled to state VAT exclusive prices to
>the general public because VAT exclusive prices are the prices they use
>normally.
That excuse is clearly wrong. It didn't take the ASA to show it, one
merely has to read the PMO.
Where there is slight confusion (and will continue to be) is with
retailers who advertise as trade suppliers (and are predominantly
trade suppliers) but in practice accept orders from consumers. Most
people buying from such suppliers know what they are doing though and
are unlikely to be misled.
>Although I have never agreed with this, it has been hard to
>find a clear example to show how they are wrong,
It's clearly stated in the PMO and Dell are by no means the first to
have been found in default on this.
--
Peter Parry. http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
Harry Stottle wrote:
>
[...]
>
> This law has been in existence for several years, but it has been hard
> to define previously because of the legal jargon used in official
> documentation. The ruling by the ASA, against a high profile company,
> has now made it much clearer, and hopefully, companies will act on it as
> soon as possible to avoid being reported to the ASA themselves. I cannot
> see any justification for quoting VAT exclusive prices for goods or
> items offered for sale to the general public, other than to mislead, and
> any company doing this needs reporting.
I quite agree with this. Why should this such an important matter for
companies, unless they see the 'VAT excl.' as a device to fool the
customer into thinking the goods are cheaper than it actually is.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Lordy.UK" <spam@recycle.bin> wrote in message
news:MPG.2001e96ff92b7b6398a212@news.ntlworld.com. ..
>> Interestingly. Tazbar have been running TV ads.
>> Wonder how well they are really doing.
>
> I have a shop on eBay, signed up to TazBar in December after some people
> gave favourable reports but I haven't had a single sale through them
> yet. My eBay sales have been through the roof.
Buy on one, sell on the other, eh?
>
> I *sooo* want TazBar to do well but the odds are stacked well against
> them :/
>
Yup. It isn't healthy to have a monopoly. And I was taught years ago, when I
first started selling, that no competition is actually bad for a business.
I've found it to be true.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>
> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)
Sadly ASA has no clout.
It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
difference.
My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it makes
us look more expensive than our competitors.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
Gordon Hudson wrote:
>
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
> > There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
> > if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
> > goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
> > against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
> > other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
> > argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
> > when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
> > VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
> >
> > The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)
>
> Sadly ASA has no clout.
> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
> difference.
> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it makes
> us look more expensive than our competitors.
How can that be? VAT inclusive prices are 17.5% higher that VAT exclusive,
obviously... because you'd have to add the VAT. Any idiot can see that.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"johannes" <johs@sinospamzefitter.com> wrote in message
news:4597E0E6.944DC200@sinospamzefitter.com...
>
>
> Gordon Hudson wrote:
>>
>> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
>> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> > There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently
>> > about
>> > if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>> > goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>> > against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> > other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>> > argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive
>> > prices
>> > when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
>> > VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>> >
>> > The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)
>>
>> Sadly ASA has no clout.
>> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
>> difference.
>> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it
>> makes
>> us look more expensive than our competitors.
>
> How can that be? VAT inclusive prices are 17.5% higher that VAT exclusive,
> obviously... because you'd have to add the VAT. Any idiot can see that.
The british public are obsessed with the headline price.
People don't read the small print but when you get to the checkout the
higher correct price is quoted.
Its a con.
We keep losing customers to companies that appear to be hugely cheaper but
they are not.
Another classic con is £1.99 per month but they only take annual payment and
the VAT is not included so the actual price you will pay is £28.05.
Our cheapest service is £29 per year.
£28.05 and £29.00 are not much different.
£1.99 headline price looks a lot cheaper.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4597debd$0$757$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently
>> about
>> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when
>> advertising
>> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive
>> prices
>> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from
>> quoting
>> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>>
>> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)
>
> Sadly ASA has no clout.
> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
> difference.
> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it
> makes us look more expensive than our competitors.
>
This is one of the reasons why the legislation was introduced, to make
sure that everyone quotes VAT in the same way so prices can be easily
compared. It is only since internet sales have become popular that some
of these companies have been trying to get around the regulations by not
quoting VAT inclusive prices, these companies have now been shown to be
in the wrong, and should be reported.
It doesn't matter if the ASA "has no clout", they can only adjudicate on
the basis of the law, otherwise companies would not take any notice of
them, and companies do take notice of the ASA. Dell have accepted they
were wrong and apologised to the ASA, so the ASA censuring Dell is an
important event in defining how VAT should be displayed.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in
message
news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net
> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups
> recently about if companies are obliged to quote VAT
> inclusive prices when advertising goods or items for sale
> to the general public. The main objectors against quoting
> VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
> other companies, but who also sell to the general public,
> and their argument was that because they do not have to
> quote VAT inclusive prices when selling to other
> companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting VAT
> inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
uk.telecom.voip..?
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote in message
news:4vq935F1d8m1hU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in
> message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net
>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups
>> recently about if companies are obliged to quote VAT
>> inclusive prices when advertising goods or items for sale
>> to the general public. The main objectors against quoting
>> VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public,
>> and their argument was that because they do not have to
>> quote VAT inclusive prices when selling to other
>> companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting VAT
>> inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>
> Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
> uk.telecom.voip..?
>
There was a recent thread in uk.telecom.voip which mentioned Gradwell
Communications not quoting VAT on their services aimed at home users. If
I remember correctly, Peter Gradwell argued that he did not have to
quote VAT inclusive prices to personal customers because Gradwell
Communications was mainly aimed at business users, I argued otherwise,
and, if I remember correctly again, you commented in that thread,
agreeing with me :-)
I have just revisited Gradwell's site and it seems not much has changed,
there is a slight improvement where I found one price that included VAT.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4597debd$0$757$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>
> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
>> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
>> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
>> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>>
>> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)
>
> Sadly ASA has no clout.
> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
> difference.
> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it
> makes us look more expensive than our competitors.
Just had a very quick look at your site. Right at the top you say "UK
Reseller web hosting from £9", but there's no mention that this is a VAT
inclusive price. Why not grab the attention of the potential customer
immediately by stating "VAT INCLUDED" in a very prominent manner. You are
not doing yourself any favours by counting on anyone taking the time to
delve in & discover it for themselves.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"Joe Lee" <invalid@noaddress> wrote in message
news:45985682$0$27099$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
> "Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4597debd$0$757$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>>
>> "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote in message
>> news:45978f8a$0$97274$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readf reenews.net...
>>> There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
>>> if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>>> goods or items for sale to the general public. The main objectors
>>> against quoting VAT inclusive prices have been companies that sell to
>>> other companies, but who also sell to the general public, and their
>>> argument was that because they do not have to quote VAT inclusive prices
>>> when selling to other companies, this somehow excuses them from quoting
>>> VAT inclusive prices if they also sell to the general public.
>>>
>>> The ASA (Advertising Standard Agency)
>>
>> Sadly ASA has no clout.
>> It will take a change by HM revenue and customs to actually make any
>> difference.
>> My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it
>> makes us look more expensive than our competitors.
>
>
> Just had a very quick look at your site. Right at the top you say "UK
> Reseller web hosting from £9", but there's no mention that this is a VAT
> inclusive price. Why not grab the attention of the potential customer
> immediately by stating "VAT INCLUDED" in a very prominent manner. You are
> not doing yourself any favours by counting on anyone taking the time to
> delve in & discover it for themselves.
Thats a fair point, we do actually play this up in some of our advertising
but not on the web site because its simply too complex to try and sell that
idea.
Potential customers don't know that other sites they are looking at don't
include VAT.
They compare the headline prices as its only the first few sentences that
get read on any site when people are doing comparisons and the main dcision
making factor is price.
The only way we can compete on a level playing field would be to quote ex
vat prices the same as everyone else.
I have considered doing that but its surprisingly more complicated (accounts
wise) than doing it VAT inclusive.
In any case, business users DO pay the VAT if they buy the service!
They may or may not be able to reclaim it but that is a seperate issue and
as they are also charging thier customers VAT then they probably never get
anything back in cash from HMRC, they will be paying out to them.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:07:45 -0000, "Ivor Jones"
<ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
>uk.telecom.voip
Gradwell: a company that mostly sells business services, but has a
separate home user section where prices are NOT shown with VAT
included, as they should be.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 16:01:08 -0000, "Gordon Hudson"
<hostroute@gmail.com> wrote:
>My business loses lots of sales by quoting VAT inclusive prices as it makes
>us look more expensive than our competitors.
One of our clients was suffering the same way. Their main competitor
is more expensive, but showed prices without VAT, so looked cheaper.
Then I noticed that they were doing the same on Froogle. To their
credit, Google very rapidly took action, and suspended the
competitor's Froogle listing until the prices were shown VAT-included.
At the same time, the competitor started showing both VAT inc and VAT
exc prices on the site, so they no longer look cheaper when they
aren't.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
In message of Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Ivor Jones writes
>
>Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the relevance to
>uk.telecom.voip..?
>
It has a lot more relevance than some of the rubbish you're currently
posting to another thread in this group. So if you haven't got anything
useful to add - stay out.
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
On 31 Dec 2006, "Harry Stottle" <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> wrote:
>There have been several discussions in various newsgroups recently about
>if companies are obliged to quote VAT inclusive prices when advertising
>goods or items for sale to the general public.
Will be interesting to see if the PC magazines which have for years been
comparing "PCs under 800 pounds" or similar (500, 1000, etc) will make a
change so those prices now include VAT, rather than being ex-VAT costs!!
If the magazines were solely for business users, it would be acceptable to
have the comparisons on prices excluding VAT, but these are PC mags on the
shelves of newsagents across the country, and aimed at consumers...
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
On 31 Dec 2006, "Gordon Hudson" <hostroute@gmail.com> wrote:
>Another classic con is £1.99 per month but they only take annual payment and
>the VAT is not included so the actual price you will pay is £28.05.
>Our cheapest service is £29 per year.
>
>£28.05 and £29.00 are not much different.
>£1.99 headline price looks a lot cheaper.
Sounds like a 1and1 price... Guess what... I've used Hostroute for years
and before that had quibbles with 1and1 (like them lying about Nominet's
requirements, making cancelling rather difficult, taking the debit with
no advance notice, and so on... but fortunately I got away from them a
while back and would never touch them again :-)
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
In article <4597a65f$0$97263$892e7fe2@authen.yellow.readfreen ews.net>,
Harry Stottle <sorryspamdoesntwork@nospam.uk.co> writes
>Regarding eBay, perhaps someone should send a copy of the ruling to
>them
Have you contacted eBay about anything recently? My guess is that if
this were reported to them, they would send out a reply explaining how
rounding adjustments work! That's about how much notice they take of you
contacting them.
--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
In article <MPG.2001e96ff92b7b6398a212@news.ntlworld.com>, Lordy. UK
<spam@recycle.bin> writes
>> Interestingly. Tazbar have been running TV ads.
>> Wonder how well they are really doing.
>
>I have a shop on eBay, signed up to TazBar in December after some people
>gave favourable reports but I haven't had a single sale through them
>yet. My eBay sales have been through the roof.
Same here.
>I *sooo* want TazBar to do well but the odds are stacked well against
>them :/
Can't see why a buyer would bother. eBay has way more ads, and as the
buyer doesn't pay the listing fees, nor have to deal with the greedy
faceless monster, they don't have the incentive to change.
Sadly, I can't see Tazbar, or any of the other wannabees having a chance
against eBay.
--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
In article <4vq42lF1d8h42U1@mid.individual.net>, Alison Hopkins
<fn62@dial.pipex.com> writes
>Buy on one, sell on the other, eh?
Not worth it. As far as I can see, the only people selling (or trying to
sell) on Tazbar are eBay sellers ho are hoping for an alternative. I've
yet to find a single item that looked like a bargain there.
For all it's problems, eBay still attracts the newbie sellers, and you
can often pick up bargains. Until Tazbar manages to persuade the general
public to make the switch, the newbies will stick with the known option
of eBay.
--
Alan Silver
(anything added below this line is nothing to do with me)
Re: VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling.
"David Floyd" <david@floyd.org.uk> wrote in message
news:$Wn905VnURmFFwJz@127.0.0.1
> In message of Sun, 31 Dec 2006, Ivor Jones writes
> >
> > Interesting though this thread is, may I ask the
> > relevance to uk.telecom.voip..?
> >
> It has a lot more relevance than some of the rubbish
> you're currently posting to another thread in this group.
> So if you haven't got anything useful to add - stay out.
I asked a question, which has been answered. That's relevant and useful
(to me). So no, I won't stay out.
VAT inclusive prices when selling to the public. ASA ruling. 
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