Besides keep adding ATAs with 2 Voip ports until covering everyone
needed, what's the inteligent solution for this "problem", in a way
that each of the employees with Voip access has it's own Voip
extension number?
In article <47e31243.51959140@news20.forteinc.com>,
Jose <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Besides keep adding ATAs with 2 Voip ports until covering everyone
>needed, what's the inteligent solution for this "problem", in a way
>that each of the employees with Voip access has it's own Voip
>extension number?
If they're all in the office, how about a VoIP capable PBX? Connect all
the ATAs to the PBX, then have the PBX connect to either your existing
legacy PSTN connections, or SIP/IAX trunks to an ITSP (eg. the one you
currently use?)
Even if you have a few remote workers, they could still connect into
your office PBX - make sure you have a good business quality ISP though!
And you don't need ATAs... You could give people dedicated SIP
deskphones (or soft phones) if required - I guess it depends on the
existing intrastructure - if you already have a lot of analogue phones
cabled in, then ATAs might be the better idea... But there are 8-port
ATAs avalable too...
You can build your own PBX (eg. an asterisk based system, or trixbox),
but there are many pre-built systems which will do what you need it to do.
> Besides keep adding ATAs with 2 Voip ports until covering everyone
> needed, what's the inteligent solution for this "problem", in a way that
> each of the employees with Voip access has it's own Voip extension
> number?
Depends how intelligent you're feeling.
A) Some kind of hosted centrex system, where you pay a fee per month per
extension, and you register every extension with a central server on the
internet
B) SIP-capable PBX on site. This will involve a bit more work and
expertise on your part, but [depending on how many extensions are
involved] could lower costs and increase reliability.
If you've got a spare PC, you could test out scenario B with PBX In A
Flash [pbxinaflash.net], as it will likely work with the ATAs you already
have.
--
<http://ale.cx/> (AIM:troffasky) (UnSoEsNpEaTm@ale.cx)
09:53:18 up 25 days, 17:45, 2 users, load average: 0.05, 0.59, 1.00
Convergence, n: The act of using separate DSL circuits for voice and data
"Jose" <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote in message
news:47e31243.51959140@news20.forteinc.com
: Hi All,
:
: Besides keep adding ATAs with 2 Voip ports until covering
: everyone needed, what's the inteligent solution for this
: "problem", in a way that each of the employees with Voip
: access has it's own Voip extension number?
:
: Thanks,
: Jose
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:00:28 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
<gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>If they're all in the office, how about a VoIP capable PBX? Connect all
>the ATAs to the PBX, then have the PBX connect to either your existing
>legacy PSTN connections, or SIP/IAX trunks to an ITSP (eg. the one you
>currently use?)
Hi Gordon,
A Voip capable PBX seems a good idea, although I'm not sure if it
would fit all requirements - I might have forgot to mention some:
a) the ability for employees of the same company in diferent offices,
calling each other for free, ringing exstension xxx in order to speak
to Mr. Smith, etc
Would a PBX allow this? Or only if the PBX had its own extension
connected to the Voip provider? (Does such device exist, or am I day
dreaming?)
b) the ability of employess to both receive and make PSTN calls
(suppose the company has already PSTN numbers, which their clients
already know, or they have a local cost number, which should allow
clients to speak to at least some of the employees; besides, some
information, and paid tech support support numbers, can only be
dialled out through a PSTN line)
>And you don't need ATAs... You could give people dedicated SIP
>deskphones (or soft phones) if required - I guess it depends on the
>existing intrastructure - if you already have a lot of analogue phones
>cabled in, then ATAs might be the better idea... But there are 8-port
>ATAs avalable too...
I'm assuming there already loads of sophisticated analogue phones -
it's not for me, it's for a friend.
8 port ATAs - of which I found only the SPA 8000 - was big news to me.
If not applied in this scenario, I'm sure I'll find a use for it :-)
An SPA3102 with multipled ports, would be ideal.
>You can build your own PBX (eg. an asterisk based system, or trixbox),
>but there are many pre-built systems which will do what you need it to do.
I think I'll go with the prebuilt, after I've found it ;-)
On 21 Mar 2008 10:03:09 GMT, alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>A) Some kind of hosted centrex system, where you pay a fee per month per
>extension, and you register every extension with a central server on the
>internet
I've already considered that, but I trying to avoid multiplying the
number of ATAs in the office
>B) SIP-capable PBX on site. This will involve a bit more work and
>expertise on your part, but [depending on how many extensions are
>involved] could lower costs and increase reliability.
Can you name one? I've already googled it, but it all seems rather
strange, at this stage
>If you've got a spare PC, you could test out scenario B with PBX In A
>Flash [pbxinaflash.net], as it will likely work with the ATAs you already
>have.
After serious thinking Jose wrote :
> On 21 Mar 2008 10:03:09 GMT, alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A) Some kind of hosted centrex system, where you pay a fee per month per
>> extension, and you register every extension with a central server on the
>> internet
>
> I've already considered that, but I trying to avoid multiplying the
> number of ATAs in the office
>
>
>> B) SIP-capable PBX on site. This will involve a bit more work and
>> expertise on your part, but [depending on how many extensions are
>> involved] could lower costs and increase reliability.
>
> Can you name one? I've already googled it, but it all seems rather
> strange, at this stage
Commercial:
<http://www.drogon.net/dsx/features.html>
<http://www.provu.co.uk/protalk_pbx.html>
Homebrew:
<http://pbxinaflash.net/downloads/>
>
>
>> If you've got a spare PC, you could test out scenario B with PBX In A
>> Flash [pbxinaflash.net], as it will likely work with the ATAs you already
>> have.
>
> I'll investigate.
>
> Thanks a lot!
> Jose
In article <47e66f5c.2752375@news20.forteinc.com>,
Jose <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:00:28 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
><gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>If they're all in the office, how about a VoIP capable PBX? Connect all
>>the ATAs to the PBX, then have the PBX connect to either your existing
>>legacy PSTN connections, or SIP/IAX trunks to an ITSP (eg. the one you
>>currently use?)
>
>Hi Gordon,
>
>A Voip capable PBX seems a good idea, although I'm not sure if it
>would fit all requirements - I might have forgot to mention some:
>
>a) the ability for employees of the same company in diferent offices,
>calling each other for free, ringing exstension xxx in order to speak
>to Mr. Smith, etc
>Would a PBX allow this? Or only if the PBX had its own extension
>connected to the Voip provider? (Does such device exist, or am I day
>dreaming?)
Sure.
Disclaimer: I make & sell such a device...
Essentially, any VoIP capable PBX ought to work - where you'll have issues
is configuring your broadband connection to allow remote conections
into the PBX. It's not hard though, and very well defined. You will
need a genuine static IP address on your broadband connection and I
would strongly suggest a good business quality ISP too.
If there are a largish number of staff in each office, it might be
advantageous for each office to have it's own PBX - it's a matter of
what you need though - The PBXs can trunk calls to each other via a
slightly more efficient link that individual phones can, and the PBXs will
also allow each local office to use their exsiting PSTN infrastructure,
if required.
The limiting factor is your broadband bandwidth. For each concurrent
call, you need approx. 80Kb/sec each way, so a standard ADSL line with
400Kb/sec outgoing can handle 4 concurrent calls, a good business quality
line with 800Kb/sec outgoing speed can handle 8 or 9. With compression
it can be many more, but I do recomend getting a good quality ISP if
you plan to use VoIP. (And a good router that can handle QoS)
I generally suggest an in-house PBX for more than about 4-6 members of
staff in one location. (But my PBXs have many more facilities than my
virtual PBX offering, but there are other virtual operators who may be
more feature rich than me)
I can't stress the need for a good ISP enough. Most people here are
residential VoIP users and as such, mostly use redisential ISP offerings,
and they work well for them, but a business relying on VoIP really does
need to spend a few quid more on a good ISP. I've seen more issues with
people trying to save a few quid on a cheap ISP for their business than
just about anything else when installing VoIP.
>b) the ability of employess to both receive and make PSTN calls
>(suppose the company has already PSTN numbers, which their clients
>already know, or they have a local cost number, which should allow
>clients to speak to at least some of the employees; besides, some
>information, and paid tech support support numbers, can only be
>dialled out through a PSTN line)
Indeed - You fit a PSTN card into the PBX. Analogue, ISDN2 or ISDN30
as needs require. PSTN on one side, VoIP on the other. The PBX bridges
the two. Allows VoIP to VoIP calls for all the internal extensions
(Some of which may be physically elsewhere, and not in the office),
and any extension can then make/take calls via the office PSTN line(s).
(or via a VoIP 'trunk' to an existing provider)
In some cases it may be posible to port numbers into a VoIP platform -
email me for more details.
>>And you don't need ATAs... You could give people dedicated SIP
>>deskphones (or soft phones) if required - I guess it depends on the
>>existing intrastructure - if you already have a lot of analogue phones
>>cabled in, then ATAs might be the better idea... But there are 8-port
>>ATAs avalable too...
>
>I'm assuming there already loads of sophisticated analogue phones -
>it's not for me, it's for a friend.
Dedicated VoIP phones tend to be easier to use for doing things like
transfering, etc. but do watch out for any existing analogue phones -
they may be analogue, but are they part of an existing proprietary PBX
system? If you can plug one into a standard home BT socket and it works,
then you won't have a problem.
>8 port ATAs - of which I found only the SPA 8000 - was big news to me.
>If not applied in this scenario, I'm sure I'll find a use for it :-)
>
>An SPA3102 with multipled ports, would be ideal.
>
>>You can build your own PBX (eg. an asterisk based system, or trixbox),
>>but there are many pre-built systems which will do what you need it to do.
>
>I think I'll go with the prebuilt, after I've found it ;-)
Someone else has posted a link to my units - I'll leave you to find it,
or drop me an email :)
On 21 Mar 2008 10:03:09 GMT, alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>B) SIP-capable PBX on site. This will involve a bit more work and
>expertise on your part, but [depending on how many extensions are
>involved] could lower costs and increase reliability.
>
>If you've got a spare PC, you could test out scenario B with PBX In A
>Flash [pbxinaflash.net], as it will likely work with the ATAs you already
>have.
These 2 alternatives seem to depend on one kind of sofware or another,
either open source running on the IP PBX, or running in a PC (which I
find even worse...)
I tend to trust *firmware* a lot more than software, and I don't mind
that the firmware is proprietary - I find there's a resonable choice
of proprietary, SIP complaiant, devides to chose from, so no problem
of monopolies here.
I'm inclined into ATAs, and real or vitual PBXs (or both), depending
on the specific final requirements.
In the ATA department, I've liked a Grandstream 8 FXS +1 or 2 FXO
ports, and a huge 24 FXS ports ATA.
The "normal" PBX department is revealing a lot more dificult to find
information about - the manufacturers I've found some information
about seem afraid to show the specs of their equipament, and the rest
only show on retailers with the "let's meet and discuss your needs"
aproach :-P
Jose wrote :
> The "normal" PBX department is revealing a lot more dificult to find
> information about - the manufacturers I've found some information
> about seem afraid to show the specs of their equipament, and the rest
> only show on retailers with the "let's meet and discuss your needs"
> aproach :-P
The NEC XN120 would be a "traditional" VoIP capable PBX. I have a
pricelist somewhere....
In article <47e8b4c3.20518953@news20.forteinc.com>,
Jose <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote:
>On 21 Mar 2008 10:03:09 GMT, alexd <troffasky@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>B) SIP-capable PBX on site. This will involve a bit more work and
>>expertise on your part, but [depending on how many extensions are
>>involved] could lower costs and increase reliability.
>>
>>If you've got a spare PC, you could test out scenario B with PBX In A
>>Flash [pbxinaflash.net], as it will likely work with the ATAs you already
>>have.
>
>These 2 alternatives seem to depend on one kind of sofware or another,
>either open source running on the IP PBX, or running in a PC (which I
>find even worse...)
>
>I tend to trust *firmware* a lot more than software, and I don't mind
>that the firmware is proprietary - I find there's a resonable choice
>of proprietary, SIP complaiant, devides to chose from, so no problem
>of monopolies here.
It's an intersting discussion - the firmware vs. software one, and one
I've had many times over the years - my background (20+ years ago) was
writing software for embedded systems - robotics, factory automation,
etc. and even then the division was becoming blured - firmware to us
then was just software in ROM.. But when it becomes changable in EPROM
(which I used back then), or Flash (nowadays) does that still make it
firmware? Most embedded devices now can be re-flashed, with new software,
or is it new firmware?
Hard to tell these days...
The whole Linux in a PC thing is also intersting - My units boot off flash
- no moving parts, (and depending on the case option, sometimes no fans
either) so is that firmware? It runs on "industrial" spec. motherboards
rather than desktops, but does that make a difference? (Actually, to me,
it does from a component count and power point of view!)
And I think that Snom phones run Linux - booting out of flash too -
is that firmware or software?
Cisco routers boot proprietary code out of flash and into RAM, but you
can re-flash the software (firmware), so ....
It really is a "fuzzy" area these days, I think.
>I'm inclined into ATAs, and real or vitual PBXs (or both), depending
>on the specific final requirements.
Indeed, but you still need something to connect the ATAs to, if you want
to enable the phones to call each other. (Without dialling IP addresses,
which some let you do)
>In the ATA department, I've liked a Grandstream 8 FXS +1 or 2 FXO
>ports, and a huge 24 FXS ports ATA.
There are some 24-port analogue cards for PCs if you're intersted in
going down that route. Not 100% what the cost breaks are though. Also
there is a nice USB connected "channel bank" too. A lot might depend on
your existing wiring, eg. if you want it all in a rack to fit into an
existing wiring scheme, then it might make sense to pick some
rack-friendly hardware.
>The "normal" PBX department is revealing a lot more dificult to find
>information about - the manufacturers I've found some information
>about seem afraid to show the specs of their equipament, and the rest
>only show on retailers with the "let's meet and discuss your needs"
>aproach :-P
It's a weird area... I've found existing "legacy" sellers to be an odd
bunch too ;-) What I've found is that *everything* is licensed, so when
you look at the base unit, it might seem attractive, until you add on
the licenses required for each line, freature, knob and whistle. This
is probably why they want to "meet and discuss your needs" ... Stuff
based on open source typically isn't licensed, unless the seller wants
to impose those sorts of terms (which they're prefectly entitled to do!)
One intersting area that I've found is that no two of my installations
have been identical - another reason to sit down and work out what you
need and what might be best... Is that one advantage of a software PBX
in that it's changable/customisable... ? Maybe it's giving too much
choice... It's always good to have a choice though!
So post your needs here - number of seats, number of lines,
requirements, expectations, desires and so on and lets see what we can
come up with... (Without trying to incur the wrath of those who might
think it's a commercial posting!)
(and maybe it's time for an update on my own website...)
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
<gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>It's an intersting discussion - the firmware vs. software one, and one
>I've had many times over the years - my background (20+ years ago) was
>writing software for embedded systems - robotics, factory automation,
>etc. and even then the division was becoming blured - firmware to us
>then was just software in ROM.. But when it becomes changable in EPROM
>(which I used back then), or Flash (nowadays) does that still make it
>firmware? Most embedded devices now can be re-flashed, with new software,
>or is it new firmware?
Hi Gordon,
If it can't get viruses, and if you can reboot it and be sure to have
it working at least as well as previously to the reboot, with
degradation of code, it's firmware to me.
>Indeed, but you still need something to connect the ATAs to, if you want
>to enable the phones to call each other. (Without dialling IP addresses,
>which some let you do)
Well, it turned out the fellow choose the cheapeast solution he could
find: he'll install softphones on the PCs of about 20+ employees (in
one of the offices), and get them USB phones, to use along side the
analog phones they already have.
Since they'll all be using the same Voip provider, they'll be able to
call each other for free.
That's good enough for him, plus some other functions he'll get from a
Centrex PBX solution installed in one of the PCs.
I'm kind of disapointed, but I don't have a saying about it...
Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience!
In article <47ea5210.31039750@news20.forteinc.com>,
Jose <go.spam@somewhere.else> wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
><gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>
>>It's an intersting discussion - the firmware vs. software one, and one
>>I've had many times over the years - my background (20+ years ago) was
>>writing software for embedded systems - robotics, factory automation,
>>etc. and even then the division was becoming blured - firmware to us
>>then was just software in ROM.. But when it becomes changable in EPROM
>>(which I used back then), or Flash (nowadays) does that still make it
>>firmware? Most embedded devices now can be re-flashed, with new software,
>>or is it new firmware?
>
>Hi Gordon,
>
>If it can't get viruses, and if you can reboot it and be sure to have
>it working at least as well as previously to the reboot, with
>degradation of code, it's firmware to me.
Thats as good a definition as any, I suppose...
>>Indeed, but you still need something to connect the ATAs to, if you want
>>to enable the phones to call each other. (Without dialling IP addresses,
>>which some let you do)
>
>Well, it turned out the fellow choose the cheapeast solution he could
>find: he'll install softphones on the PCs of about 20+ employees (in
>one of the offices), and get them USB phones, to use along side the
>analog phones they already have.
>
>Since they'll all be using the same Voip provider, they'll be able to
>call each other for free.
One thing to watch is "internal" calls in the same office - depending
on how it's setup, it might be that to make an internal call, the data
goes back out the broadband connection to the remote voip service,
and back in again... That may not be a problem though depending on the
number of calls handled, and the sip proxy the VoIP operator uses.
>That's good enough for him, plus some other functions he'll get from a
>Centrex PBX solution installed in one of the PCs.
Good luck!
>I'm kind of disapointed, but I don't have a saying about it...
>
>Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and experience!
Voip for x employees in an office? 
Linear Mode
