Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:01:18 -0000, "¬Stephen Hammond"
<Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Unlimited calls and proper call number display for the recipient (CLI?),
>does anyone else offer this?
>
>700 mins a month isn't that much if you ask me :)
>(23mins a day)
>
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong
>
>Then again they're not much good when you have to pay double for mobile
>calls so in conclusion stuff VOIP :)
>
>Stephen
>
First question is 'Do you really NEED unlimited calls?'
So many people get into this unlimited thing without first assessing
their actual needs.
voip.co.uk costs £2/month for inclusive off peak calls and 2p/call for
peak. If Vonage is charging £8/month that's £6 more and amounts to 300
peak time calls - that's approximately 300/22~= 14 peak time calls a
day (22 days because weekends are taken care of), thats in addition
to all the off peak calls. Do you really need that many calls?
Further, when you go away on your hols you are still paying Vonage
£8/month - add that to the monthly cost and the deal is even worse.
Caller display on voip.co.uk should be OK.
You do get a geo number with voip.co.uk also.
The only downside is that the voicemail could be better and they don't
do a 1471 service afaik (then I don't know if Vonage do this).
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
>
>>Add £8 to what monthly cost?
> It isn't added to anything Polly Brian is another Vonage hater by the
> sounds of things and just has Ivor is obsessed with Sipgate Brian is
> nearly just the same regarding voip.co.uk .
> I have no real complaints regarding voip.co.uk but I would sooner just
> pay Vonage the eight quid and know that I can pick up the phone at
> anytime of the night or day and make a call for " free" sort of .
Looks good I'm going to go for voip.co.uk ;)
no way do I make 10 calls during the day every day :)
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
Brian A wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:01:18 -0000, "¬Stephen Hammond"
> <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Unlimited calls and proper call number display for the recipient (CLI?),
>> does anyone else offer this?
>>
>> 700 mins a month isn't that much if you ask me :)
>> (23mins a day)
>>
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong
>>
>> Then again they're not much good when you have to pay double for mobile
>> calls so in conclusion stuff VOIP :)
>>
>> Stephen
>>
> First question is 'Do you really NEED unlimited calls?'
> So many people get into this unlimited thing without first assessing
> their actual needs.
> voip.co.uk costs £2/month for inclusive off peak calls and 2p/call for
> peak. If Vonage is charging £8/month that's £6 more and amounts to 300
> peak time calls - that's approximately 300/22~= 14 peak time calls a
> day (22 days because weekends are taken care of), thats in addition
> to all the off peak calls. Do you really need that many calls?
> Further, when you go away on your hols you are still paying Vonage
> £8/month - add that to the monthly cost and the deal is even worse.
> Caller display on voip.co.uk should be OK.
> You do get a geo number with voip.co.uk also.
>
> The only downside is that the voicemail could be better and they don't
> do a 1471 service afaik (then I don't know if Vonage do this).
>
>
>
>
> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
It's only £19.99 if you pay for 12 months in advance. This service
suites my needs and has worked when I need it to. Also, the email help
and support is swift and helpful.
>On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 12:21:06 +0000, Polly <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Add £8 to what monthly cost?
What I meant by this is if you go on holiday and are not making use of
your £8/month then it is wasted. If you spend a month away from home,
for example, then that wasted £8 is spread over the other 11months of
use therby costing £8.72/month you are in residence.
I think that Vonage is fine if you really are going to make full use
of it. If not then there are cheaper options.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
Brian A wrote:
> Further, when you go away on your hols you are still paying Vonage
> £8/month - add that to the monthly cost and the deal is even worse.
Call yourself a geek? If you go on holiday, the first thing you pack should
be your ATA ;-) Something else - Vonage adaptors are locked to Vonage, and
you can't use any kit you like with Vonage unless you pay extra for
a 'softphone' account.
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Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 15:11:38 GMT, Ian Pawson <ian@ipawson.com> wrote:
>Brian A wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:01:18 -0000, "¬Stephen Hammond"
>> <Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Unlimited calls and proper call number display for the recipient (CLI?),
>>> does anyone else offer this?
>>>
>>> 700 mins a month isn't that much if you ask me :)
>>> (23mins a day)
>>>
>>>
>>> Correct me if I'm wrong
>>>
>>> Then again they're not much good when you have to pay double for mobile
>>> calls so in conclusion stuff VOIP :)
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>> First question is 'Do you really NEED unlimited calls?'
>> So many people get into this unlimited thing without first assessing
>> their actual needs.
>> voip.co.uk costs £2/month for inclusive off peak calls and 2p/call for
>> peak. If Vonage is charging £8/month that's £6 more and amounts to 300
>> peak time calls - that's approximately 300/22~= 14 peak time calls a
>> day (22 days because weekends are taken care of), thats in addition
>> to all the off peak calls. Do you really need that many calls?
>> Further, when you go away on your hols you are still paying Vonage
>> £8/month - add that to the monthly cost and the deal is even worse.
>> Caller display on voip.co.uk should be OK.
>> You do get a geo number with voip.co.uk also.
>>
>> The only downside is that the voicemail could be better and they don't
>> do a 1471 service afaik (then I don't know if Vonage do this).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
>It's only £19.99 if you pay for 12 months in advance. This service
>suites my needs and has worked when I need it to. Also, the email help
>and support is swift and helpful.
In addition, there is another VSP ( Vyke ) offering calls to Europe
and the US at 2p/call. I only recently saw a posting here but, afaik,
no one has actually stated that they use them. You have to be quite
careful to get the right merchant URL otherwise the pricing is in US
cents. http://tinyurl.com/ylu8os
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
¬Stephen Hammond wrote:
> Unlimited calls and proper call number display for the recipient (CLI?),
> does anyone else offer this?
Yes
> 700 mins a month isn't that much if you ask me :)
> (23mins a day)
Do yourself a favour - open up an Excel sheet and work out the costs. Look
at pre-pay providers [like Sipgate], post-pay [Gradwell], part-inclusive
[voip.co.uk] and all-inclusive providers [Vonage]. Look at where your calls
are going [01/02/07/08/09/00], how long they are and when you make them.
For example:
- If you're always making calls to/from 0049, maybe you would be better off
signing up with a VoIP provider in Germany
- Vonage looks promising because you're always making loads of peak time
geographic calls, but digging a little deeper you realise that most of them
are to the same place that could easily be converted to VoIP, and would be
free on-net with another VoIP provider
- Most of your calls are to mobiles, so buying a mobile would be more
cost-effective
If you buy the right kit, you can sign up with several providers and program
it to take the cheapest route. There's a lot of competition out there in
VoIP-land for your money, so you're bound to find something that satisfies.
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Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
Polly wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:08:04 GMT, Brian A postulated:
> "cheapest" isn't always "best".
Fair comment.. But some times it is. ;-) voip.co.uk and its £1.99
(£19.99 if buying 12 months) package offers a great service (day or
night when I pick up the phone), free phone calls and just as important;
great support.
But hey, we cant all buy the same service.. If Vonage works for you,
great.. You'll be saving a fair deal compared to BT/NTL anyway.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:18:58 +0000, Scope <scope@somewhere.com> wrote:
>Polly wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:08:04 GMT, Brian A postulated:
>> "cheapest" isn't always "best".
Don't think it was me ...it was a quote from Dex
>
>Fair comment.. But some times it is. ;-) voip.co.uk and its £1.99
>(£19.99 if buying 12 months) package offers a great service (day or
>night when I pick up the phone), free phone calls and just as important;
>great support.
>
>But hey, we cant all buy the same service.. If Vonage works for you,
>great.. You'll be saving a fair deal compared to BT/NTL anyway.
I think, as Dex has intimated, some people just feel happier paying an
'all in' price even if it does work out more expensive.
My next door neighbour was paying £200/year more than me for her water
bill than me because she didn't have a meter. She wanted a fixed bill.
She has seen the light now and made a change but I can see that, for
some people, cost is not so much of a factor as is peace of mind.
I get my peace of mind nowing that I have got a good service without,
as I see it, wasting money. Others get their peace of mind by paying
more.
There are many people who don't have a clue how much they are paying
for their phone calls - and they don't care. They just worry about
other things. Meanwhile BT rub their hands with glee!
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
Brian A wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:18:58 +0000, Scope <scope@somewhere.com> wrote:
>
>> Polly wrote:
>>> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:08:04 GMT, Brian A postulated:
>>> "cheapest" isn't always "best".
> Don't think it was me ...it was a quote from Dex
Sorry mate, I messed up.. It was in fact Polly who said it.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
"Brian A" <no_spam_bca1000@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bip0l2h2vabn8ob9s2ai8gmrct4ifkve8t@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:18:58 +0000, Scope <scope@somewhere.com> wrote:
>>But hey, we cant all buy the same service.. If Vonage works for you,
>>great.. You'll be saving a fair deal compared to BT/NTL anyway.
> I think, as Dex has intimated, some people just feel happier paying an
> 'all in' price even if it does work out more expensive.
> My next door neighbour was paying £200/year more than me for her water
> bill than me because she didn't have a meter. She wanted a fixed bill.
> She has seen the light now and made a change but I can see that, for
> some people, cost is not so much of a factor as is peace of mind.
> I get my peace of mind nowing that I have got a good service without,
> as I see it, wasting money. Others get their peace of mind by paying
> more.
> There are many people who don't have a clue how much they are paying
> for their phone calls - and they don't care. They just worry about
> other things. Meanwhile BT rub their hands with glee!
How refreshing to see a bit of "live and let live" on this group. Long may
it last!
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
<M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bqe1l21avhd40o1quin2m8nq2rok8bb26q@4ax.com
[snip]
> How Ivor can state Vonage charges are EXTORSIONATE,
I didn't, I said they are extortionate.
> even
> if no calls are made they are still much cheaper than BT
> and just as reliable and hassle free unlike one certain
> provider that I had the misfortune to encounter .
I have relatively little hassle. As I spend probably about three or four
quid a year on chargeable calls why should I pay more..?
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
On Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:01:18 -0000, "¬Stephen Hammond"
<Stephen7372@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Unlimited calls and proper call number display for the recipient (CLI?),
>does anyone else offer this?
>
>700 mins a month isn't that much if you ask me :)
>(23mins a day)
>
>
>Correct me if I'm wrong
As others have suggested, voip.co.uk is probably the best bet. For
£1.67 per month you get free calls off-peak and at weekends, so you
pay 2p per weekday call. To reach Vonage's charges you would have to
make an average of fifteen peak time calls every day. I don't believe
that many residential uses do.
In addition, with the notable exception of voicemail, voip.co.uk offer
far better facilities than Vonage do.
>Then again they're not much good when you have to pay double for mobile
>calls so in conclusion stuff VOIP :)
The mobile companies charge about 10p per minute to deliver their
calls, so you're not going to find a cheaper rate anywhere, unless
it's a mistake or a loss leader.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:08:43 +0000, Polly <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:09:27 +0000, hairydog@despammed.com postulated:
>
>>In addition, with the notable exception of voicemail, voip.co.uk offer
>>far better facilities than Vonage do.
>
>voip.co.uk looks attractive. However Vonage offer a call forwarding
>option for incoming calls. If the forwarded number is 01... or 02...
>there is no charge for this forwarding. How do voip.co.uk measure up
>on this feature?
Afaik they charge per minute - so, if I am right, not so attractive
for that application.
Remove 'no_spam_' from email address.
>>>In addition, with the notable exception of voicemail, voip.co.uk offer
>>>far better facilities than Vonage do.
>> voip.co.uk looks attractive. However Vonage offer a call forwarding
>> option for incoming calls. If the forwarded number is 01... or 02...
>> there is no charge for this forwarding. How do voip.co.uk measure up
>> on this feature?
> Afaik they charge per minute - so, if I am right, not so attractive
> for that application.
Not quite sure I understand that - surely forwarding a call to a geo number
is no different to placing a call to a geo number? Then again,
second-guessing the business models of telecoms companies is fraught with
danger.
Workaround of the Day: Install Asterisk. Register a free Sipgate account for
incoming calls and a voip.co.uk for outbound. Do call diverts and voicemail
on your Asterisk box. Job done!
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Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
alexd was thinking very hard :
> Workaround of the Day: Install Asterisk. Register a free Sipgate account for
> incoming calls and a voip.co.uk for outbound. Do call diverts and voicemail
> on your Asterisk box. Job done!
Not so effective if the reason for needing the forward is because the
connection to the ITSP is down.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:17:04 GMT, Jono <nothanks@blueyonder.invalid>
wrote:
>Not so effective if the reason for needing the forward is because the
>connection to the ITSP is down.
You can set up forwarding to that it only goes there if the call can't
be connected.
OTOH, the only times our internet connection has been down have been
when the BT voice line has been down. On one of those occasions, I
connected the voip via a neighbour's wi-fi.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
M.Dexter@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
> I have just totaled up my calls this month so far
> and if I had a BT line up to now so far next months bill from BT would
> have been in the region of 13.00 including line rental and we are only
> in the 8th day of the month, so by the end of November I would
> probably been looking at a bill for around £ 30.00 instead of the £
> 7.99 from Vonage .
Can you please explain your sums to get to the BT figures you've quoted?
£13 over 8 days does not make £30 over 30 days in my book.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
hairydog@despammed.com wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:08:43 +0000, Polly <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> voip.co.uk looks attractive. However Vonage offer a call forwarding
>> option for incoming calls. If the forwarded number is 01... or 02...
>> there is no charge for this forwarding. How do voip.co.uk measure up
>> on this feature?
>
> I don't understand what you are asking about.
>
> Let's assume that your voip number is 01234 567890 and you want to
> forward all calls to that number elsewhere, to 01432 456789. If that's
> a BT number, you pay about 1p per minute.
>
> If it's a voip.co.uk number, it's free. However, I can't see the point
> in that. Why not take the VOIP phone to the new location?
They might not have broadband where you are going?
> Or do you mean something else entirely?
I think your first answer is what he is asking.. So basically its not
free (as you probably wont forward to another voip.co.uk number? Thats
a shame.
>On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:05:02 +0000, Polly <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>I have yet to find anyone else offering this. Unlike voip.co.uk and
>>others I've looked at there is no extra charge for it.
>
>Yes, you're right. voip.co.uk would charge 1p per minute for those
>calls (unless they're forwarded to another voip number), whereas they
>are included in the £8 per month you have to pay on Vonage.
Yes, I thought voip.co.uk did charge 1p/min for that. It might be
worth sending an email to vyke.co.uk and asking them what they charge
for a similar facility. Their usual charge is 2p/call to anywhere in
Europe and the US, at any time. Their site lacks information in the
detail I would like it.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
"Scope" <scope@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:454fc2dd$0$12571$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Polly wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:08:04 GMT, Brian A postulated:
>> "cheapest" isn't always "best".
>
> Fair comment.. But some times it is. ;-) voip.co.uk and its £1.99 (£19.99
> if buying 12 months) package offers a great service (day or night when I
> pick up the phone), free phone calls and just as important; great support.
>
> But hey, we cant all buy the same service.. If Vonage works for you,
> great.. You'll be saving a fair deal compared to BT/NTL anyway.
With BT/NTL you can use cheap override providers and then the
advantages of VOIP are not so obvious to me.
divoch
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
"divoch" <divoch@REMOVETHIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hzn6h.7872$371.611@newsfe5-win.ntli.net
[snip]
> With BT/NTL you can use cheap override providers and
> then the advantages of VOIP are not so obvious to me.
Calls between users are totally free. Calls to other networks where there
are peering agreements are also free.
Multiple numbers on one physical BT line or cable connection with little
or no monthly rental (unless you buy the Vonage spiel) and an "area" code
of your choice.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
divoch wrote:
> "Scope" <scope@somewhere.com> wrote in message
> news:454fc2dd$0$12571$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> With BT/NTL you can use cheap override providers and then the
> advantages of VOIP are not so obvious to me.
> divoch
Absolutely.. If I had a BT line I would think twice about bothering with
VoIP.. Perhaps if you liked to play around with new technology -
otherwise (with the override providers) there isnt really that much in it.
Im in a NTL area and have dropped my Phoneline, so the only expense I've
got is my Broadband.. In my case VoIP has worked out VERY well.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
"Scope" <scope@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:455a0e04$0$13111$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> divoch wrote:
>> "Scope" <scope@somewhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:454fc2dd$0$12571$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> With BT/NTL you can use cheap override providers and then the
>> advantages of VOIP are not so obvious to me.
>> divoch
>
> Absolutely.. If I had a BT line I would think twice about bothering with
> VoIP.. Perhaps if you liked to play around with new technology - otherwise
> (with the override providers) there isnt really that much in it.
>
> Im in a NTL area and have dropped my Phoneline, so the only expense I've
> got is my Broadband.. In my case VoIP has worked out VERY well.
>
Unfortunately I use both NTL broadband and telephone service.
I quite agree with you that BT line with override providers is a better bet
than NTL. Both, the choice of providers and costs are better.
I am considering either switching to BT to get the benefits of a greater
choice or possibly keeping NTL broadband and using VOIP. I do
not see it as a clear cut right now but what puts me of VOIP is that,
as far as I know, you still cannot call emergency services and that some
operators, namely NTL, does not allow their customers to call VOIP
specific numbers.
divoch
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
divoch laid this down on his screen :
> NTL broadband and using VOIP. I do
> not see it as a clear cut right now but what puts me of VOIP is that,
> as far as I know, you still cannot call emergency services and that some
> operators, namely NTL, does not allow their customers to call VOIP
> specific numbers.
> divoch
Do you not have a mobile to call 999?
Voip.co.uk works, AFAIK with 999 (untested) as does Vonage (untested).
WRT NTL & VoIP, it isn't a problem, unless your VoIP provider gives you
an 0560 number (BT BB Voice). Most providers allow you to choose a
proper geographic number with an STD of your choice.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
divoch wrote:
> "Scope" <scope@somewhere.com> wrote
>> Im in a NTL area and have dropped my Phoneline, so the only expense I've
>> got is my Broadband.. In my case VoIP has worked out VERY well.
> Unfortunately I use both NTL broadband and telephone service.
> I quite agree with you that BT line with override providers is a better
> bet than NTL. Both, the choice of providers and costs are better.
> I am considering either switching to BT to get the benefits of a greater
> choice or possibly keeping NTL broadband and using VOIP.
I would drop NTL phone service first, then if VoIP doesn't work out for you,
go with BT.
> I do not see it as a clear cut right now but what puts me of VOIP is that,
> as far as I know, you still cannot call emergency services and that some
> operators, namely NTL, does not allow their customers to call VOIP
> specific numbers.
I don't imagine that NTL will prevent you from calling VoIP specific numbers
if you're using VoIP.
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Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
Polly submitted this idea :
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:22:37 GMT, divoch postulated:
>
>> I am considering either switching to BT to get the benefits of a greater
>> choice or possibly keeping NTL broadband and using VOIP.
>
> One of the problems with VoIP is that if your broadband service is
> down, you have no phone. Secondly, if you have a power cut you have no
> phone either.
>
> Finally, those concerned with security and privacy will need to be
> aware that interception of your VoIP calls is relatively easy.
Please explain in more detail.
>> I do
>> not see it as a clear cut right now but what puts me off VOIP is that,
>> as far as I know, you still cannot call emergency services and that some
>> operators, namely NTL, does not allow their customers to call VOIP
>> specific numbers.
>
> With Vonage you CAN call emergency services (provided your broadband
> is working and you have electricity power).
>
> I don't know what you mean by "NTL, does not allow their customers to
> call VOIP specific numbers."
He means NTL telco have not enabled many of their exchanges to allow
its customers to call numbers beginning 0560. They have also indicated
they aren't going to.
It would have no bearing if he avoids a VSP that doesn't offer
geo-numbers.
Re: Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service
"Polly" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:dnbkl25m6j1ps0demnukul1cdk7ufde841@4ax.com
> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 20:22:37 GMT, divoch postulated:
>
> > I am considering either switching to BT to get the
> > benefits of a greater choice or possibly keeping NTL
> > broadband and using VOIP.
>
> One of the problems with VoIP is that if your broadband
> service is down, you have no phone.
How often does your broadband go down..? Mine (Orange, was Wanadoo and
before that Freeserve) is extremely reliable. In 5 years I can count on
the fingers of one hand the number of times I've lost service. The longest
period was just under 24 hours and was caused by a major BT outage that
affected fixed lines as well.
> Secondly, if you have
> a power cut you have no phone either.
So get a UPS. Anyone with sense will have one anyway to keep their
computer and other equipment that may be required in the event of a mains
failure.
What..? You don't have a UPS..? Oh dear.
> Finally, those concerned with security and privacy will
> need to be aware that interception of your VoIP calls is
> relatively easy.
So is interception of fixed lines, particularly BT ones on overhead
wires..!
> > I do
> > not see it as a clear cut right now but what puts me of
> > VOIP is that, as far as I know, you still cannot call
> > emergency services and that some operators, namely NTL,
> > does not allow their customers to call VOIP specific
> > numbers.
>
> With Vonage you CAN call emergency services (provided
> your broadband is working and you have electricity power).
>
> I don't know what you mean by "NTL, does not allow their
> customers to call VOIP specific numbers."
Nor do I. How do they know..?
FWIW, I for one don't use VoIP purely as a money saving excercise. I make
relatively few calls to PSTN numbers, I mainly call other VoIP users which
are free calls anyway. I am interested in the technology; right now I am
working with a friend in North Wales trying to set up an extension off his
Asterisk box, it's not easy but we're getting there and when it's finished
I will be able to link into a network connecting telephone enthusiasts'
electromechanical exchanges worldwide, using old GPO rotary dial
telephones..!
Vonage is the only one that offers a proper service 
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