What do you want from a VOIP provider

"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf72928.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home

[snip]

> "newsgroups are the internet's open discussion forums".
>
> uk.telecom.voip is a newsgroup, yes, but it is also a
> forum, specifically for the discussion of VoIP in the UK.

No. It is not a forum.

I am fed up with saying it as you only seem to want to inflame the
situation.

Call it what you will, you will not change the FACT that this NEWSGROUP is
NOT a forum.

A forum can take place within a newsgroup, yes, and I suspect this is
where you are going wrong. A newsgroup is not a forum in itself.

End.


Ivor

"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf7297l.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home
> On 2007-06-13, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> > "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> > > > "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > Otherwise shut up.
> > > >
> > > > I repeat the above line.
> > >
> > > Nice.
> >
> > I am responding in kind.
>
> How so? I've not told you to "shut up".

Not in so many words, no. But your intention is clear.

> > Now, put up or shut up. Preferably the latter.
>
> You've now told me to shut up 3 times in 3 messages. That
> is just rude, and not particularly conducive to an adult
> conversation.

You're not trying to have an adult conversation. An adult would not say
that a newsgroup is a forum.

Now do you want me to repeat myself yet again..?

Ivor

On 2007-06-14, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
> You've now told me to shut up 3 times in 3 messages.

Sorry, it was of course twice in two messages. The previous example was
you telling someone else to shut up.

On 2007-06-14, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> You're not trying to have an adult conversation. An adult would not say
> that a newsgroup is a forum.

Interesting. Why not? What makes uk.telecom.voip so special that it
cannot be refered to as a forum?

When you are going to provide even one example of this "convention" you
mention, or any other reference which supports your opinion?

"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf72j2g.l6f.paul@challenger.my.home
> On 2007-06-14, Ivor Jones <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> > You're not trying to have an adult conversation. An
> > adult would not say that a newsgroup is a forum.
>
> Interesting. Why not? What makes uk.telecom.voip so
> special that it cannot be refered to as a forum?

Sigh.. Because it *isn't* one.

> When you are going to provide even one example of this
> "convention" you mention, or any other reference which
> supports your opinion?

It's convention. Convention isn't always written down.

In any case, I don't have to. It's a fact. If you don't want to/can't
believe it, tough. You won't change it.

I do not propose to argue with you further.

Ivor

"Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnf72itk.l6f.paul@challenger.my.home
> On 2007-06-14, Paul Cupis <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote:
> > You've now told me to shut up 3 times in 3 messages.
>
> Sorry, it was of course twice in two messages. The
> previous example was you telling someone else to shut up.

It hasn't worked though, worse luck.

I used to respect you, Paul. Now you've just shown yourself to be another
idiot like Ron Chew and all the rest.

Call this group what you like, I won't argue with you further, I'm too fed
up. But it isn't and *never will be* a forum.

End.

Ivor

In message <5dcrbtF34c6v1U1@mid.individual.net>
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:slrnf72928.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home
>
> [snip]
>
> > "newsgroups are the internet's open discussion forums".
> >
> > uk.telecom.voip is a newsgroup, yes, but it is also a
> > forum, specifically for the discussion of VoIP in the UK.
>
> No. It is not a forum.
>
> I am fed up with saying it as you only seem to want to inflame the
> situation.
>
> Call it what you will, you will not change the FACT that this NEWSGROUP is
> NOT a forum.

But it manifestly /is/ a forum - in the general sense of the word.
I accept that there are other entities that are called forums (and
shouldn't they be "fora"?), in the specific Internet sense of the
word; but the existence of the specific sense in no way invalidates
the general sense, therefore, since users of this newsgroup use it
as a forum for discussions, it follows that it is a forum.

> A forum can take place within a newsgroup, yes, and I suspect this is
> where you are going wrong. A newsgroup is not a forum in itself.

There you go again with this logical nonsense. How can a forum
"take place"? It's as daft as saying that a street takes place.
Please explain yourself.

Dave

"Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:360000f34e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com
> In message <5dcrbtF34c6v1U1@mid.individual.net>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "Paul Cupis" <paul@cupis.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:slrnf72928.hq9.paul@challenger.my.home
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > "newsgroups are the internet's open discussion
> > > forums".
> > >
> > > uk.telecom.voip is a newsgroup, yes, but it is also a
> > > forum, specifically for the discussion of VoIP in the
> > > UK.
> >
> > No. It is not a forum.
> >
> > I am fed up with saying it as you only seem to want to
> > inflame the situation.
> >
> > Call it what you will, you will not change the FACT
> > that this NEWSGROUP is NOT a forum.
>
> But it manifestly /is/ a forum - in the general sense of
> the word.

It is not the general sense of the word at issue here. It is Usenet
convention.

>I accept that there are other entities that are
> called forums (and shouldn't they be "fora"?)

Actually no.

>, in the
> specific Internet sense of the word; but the existence of
> the specific sense in no way invalidates the general
> sense, therefore, since users of this newsgroup use it as
> a forum for discussions, it follows that it is a forum.

No it *isn't* - how many more times..?!
>
> > A forum can take place within a newsgroup, yes, and I
> > suspect this is where you are going wrong. A newsgroup
> > is not a forum in itself.
>
> There you go again with this logical nonsense. How can a
> forum "take place"? It's as daft as saying that a street
> takes place. Please explain yourself.

I have done so ad nauseum.

I'm fed up now. Call it what you like, it still isn't a forum.

Ivor

>
> Dave

On 15 Jun, 01:47, "Ivor Jones" <i...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
> "Dave Higton" <davehig...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:360000f34e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com
>

> > > A forum can take place within a newsgroup, yes, and I
> > > suspect this is where you are going wrong. A newsgroup
> > > is not a forum in itself.
>
> > There you go again with this logical nonsense. How can a
> > forum "take place"? It's as daft as saying that a street
> > takes place. Please explain yourself.
>
> I have done so ad nauseum.

I'll be more specific, then. Please explain how you think that
a place can take place. You haven't attempted to explain
that.

Dave

"davehigton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:1181893023.110276.110410@q69g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com

[snip]

> I'll be more specific, then. Please explain how you
> think that a place can take place. You haven't attempted
> to explain that.

I don't have to. But I will tell you this - in Usenet convention (which as
is often the case with convention isn't always written down) a forum is
web based and hosted on (usually) a single server, whereas a newsgroup is
hosted on multiple servers and isn't web based.

Does *that* make sense..? If not, sorry and all that. but hard luck. This
group *still* isn't a forum.

Ivor

<Frank-Joyce@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:u2h373pq9caq2mkkotslgkeelng9kfak7n@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:40:02 +0100, Richard H Huelin
> <august2006@nospammershere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> From observing what goes on in this group for a couple of
>>years or so, it is clear that the the cretins who support
>>spam
>
> Richard I do not think anyone here really supports spammers
> and I take it that you do not either but neither do you or the vast
> majority come here ranting and raving like an escapee from Rampton
> the moment a posting that resembles spam appears here unlike one
> particular poster .
> Continually ranting and raving here about anything does no good at all
> if one has a complaint about something that is posted to any group
> then the complaint should be made to the offenders ISP not here where
> the complaint will do no good at all except serve to annoy others .


Quite lucid. However - missing commas, sentences running into the next
without punctuation, space before a full stop....

Can't be himself with a dictionary at his side, can it?

"cybuerke" <cybuerke@PLMgooglemail.com> wrote in message
news:f4tn22$37b$1@news.freedom2surf.net...
>
> Quite lucid. However - missing commas, sentences running into the next
> without punctuation, space before a full stop....
>
> Can't be himself with a dictionary at his side, can it?

I think you're right, well spotted!

I haven't seen his other pseudonym posting for a while, and that post
slipped under my radar.

Rob

In message <5df3kcF33t6n5U1@mid.individual.net>
"Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:

> "davehigton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> news:1181893023.110276.110410@q69g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com
>
> [snip]
>
> > I'll be more specific, then. Please explain how you
> > think that a place can take place. You haven't attempted
> > to explain that.
>
> I don't have to.

Ah, so you've ducked the question.

> But I will tell you this - in Usenet convention (which as
> is often the case with convention isn't always written down) a forum is
> web based and hosted on (usually) a single server, whereas a newsgroup is
> hosted on multiple servers and isn't web based.
>
> Does *that* make sense..? If not, sorry and all that. but hard luck.

Perfectly, and I agree with you - in your specific use and sense
of the word "forum". (And I have never disagreed with you on that
point.)

> This group *still* isn't a forum.

But it is also a forum, in the general sense of the word "forum",
because that's the use to which we all put it. A forum for
discussion. A place, albeit virtual or abstract, where we go to
discuss things. Does that make sense to you?

Dave

"Dave Higton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:d6c87bf34e.davehigton@dsl.pipex.com
> In message <5df3kcF33t6n5U1@mid.individual.net>
> "Ivor Jones" <ivor@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "davehigton" <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
> > news:1181893023.110276.110410@q69g2000hsb.googlegr oups.com
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > I'll be more specific, then. Please explain how you
> > > think that a place can take place. You haven't
> > > attempted to explain that.
> >
> > I don't have to.
>
> Ah, so you've ducked the question.

Not at all. It's a question that has been answered elsewhere and I'm
getting tired of repeating myself.

> > But I will tell you this - in Usenet convention (which
> > as
> > is often the case with convention isn't always written
> > down) a forum is web based and hosted on (usually) a
> > single server, whereas a newsgroup is hosted on
> > multiple servers and isn't web based.
> >
> > Does *that* make sense..? If not, sorry and all that.
> > but hard luck.
>
> Perfectly, and I agree with you - in your specific use
> and sense of the word "forum". (And I have never
> disagreed with you on that point.)
>
> > This group *still* isn't a forum.
>
> But it is also a forum, in the general sense of the word
> "forum", because that's the use to which we all put it.
> A forum for discussion. A place, albeit virtual or
> abstract, where we go to discuss things. Does that make
> sense to you?

No, it is not "also" anything. It is a newsgroup. And that is all.

Now can I go to bed..?


Ivor