John wrote:
> All in one phone/fax machine. If you switch to voip and use it
> through an ATA, will the fax machine still work?
If the ATA uses the same codec as the PSTN (G.711 A-Law in the UK) and
the propagation delay is low enough, it should work. (G.711 mu-law
should also work, at least as well as faxing to the US).
If it uses T.38 encoding of fax and regenerates the fax signal, it
should also work.
If it uses GSM or G.729 without T.38, there is no hope.
>
In article <jlbcd4$4ie$1@dont-email.me>,
David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>John wrote:
>> All in one phone/fax machine. If you switch to voip and use it
>> through an ATA, will the fax machine still work?
>
>If the ATA uses the same codec as the PSTN (G.711 A-Law in the UK) and
>the propagation delay is low enough, it should work. (G.711 mu-law
>should also work, at least as well as faxing to the US).
It's not so much propogation (latency) as jitter and packet loss.
Although I've demonstrated it working, I'd never give anyone any
sort of guarantees whatsoever of it working for real.
>If it uses T.38 encoding of fax and regenerates the fax signal, it
>should also work.
If you can find a provider that'll terminate the T.38...
>If it uses GSM or G.729 without T.38, there is no hope.
Indeed.
Basically, it might work and if it does, then great, but doesn't
expect it to and use something else - e.g. email. What I have done
for clients in the past is ported their FAX number to a FAX to Email
service, then connected their legacy FAX maching to their standard
BT line for outgoung faxes (and make sure they withold the number
so people don't try to fax back on it) That seems to work fine when
people have a small number of FAXes to send, but still need to recieve
them.
On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 11:43:54 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
<gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>In article <jlbcd4$4ie$1@dont-email.me>,
>David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>John wrote:
>>> All in one phone/fax machine. If you switch to voip and use it
>>> through an ATA, will the fax machine still work?
>>
>>If the ATA uses the same codec as the PSTN (G.711 A-Law in the UK) and
>>the propagation delay is low enough, it should work. (G.711 mu-law
>>should also work, at least as well as faxing to the US).
>
>It's not so much propogation (latency) as jitter and packet loss.
>
>Although I've demonstrated it working, I'd never give anyone any
>sort of guarantees whatsoever of it working for real.
>
>>If it uses T.38 encoding of fax and regenerates the fax signal, it
>>should also work.
>
>If you can find a provider that'll terminate the T.38...
>
>>If it uses GSM or G.729 without T.38, there is no hope.
>
>Indeed.
>
>Basically, it might work and if it does, then great, but doesn't
>expect it to and use something else - e.g. email. What I have done
>for clients in the past is ported their FAX number to a FAX to Email
>service, then connected their legacy FAX maching to their standard
>BT line for outgoung faxes (and make sure they withold the number
>so people don't try to fax back on it) That seems to work fine when
>people have a small number of FAXes to send, but still need to recieve
>them.
>
>Gordon
Thanks Gordon and David. It's not a major issue as very few faxes are
sent, but was just curious as to whether it would.
--
John
If you are on a flaky or Voip connection - force it to the lowest speed
(2400bps), which IIRC uses a very simple codec ( half a cycle of 1200Hz or a
full cycles of 2400Hz). Experiment with the error correction. The odd
missed line or blob may be easier than constant retransmissions. There used
to be an "international" setting, but I never knew exactly what this did.
"John" <focus594-remove-@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bp4jn7pes90h6f189aob5vfgtk0hpmd5ld@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 11:43:54 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
> <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <jlbcd4$4ie$1@dont-email.me>,
>>David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>John wrote:
>>>> All in one phone/fax machine. If you switch to voip and use it
>>>> through an ATA, will the fax machine still work?
>>>
>>>If the ATA uses the same codec as the PSTN (G.711 A-Law in the UK) and
>>>the propagation delay is low enough, it should work. (G.711 mu-law
>>>should also work, at least as well as faxing to the US).
>>
>>It's not so much propogation (latency) as jitter and packet loss.
>>
>>Although I've demonstrated it working, I'd never give anyone any
>>sort of guarantees whatsoever of it working for real.
>>
>>>If it uses T.38 encoding of fax and regenerates the fax signal, it
>>>should also work.
>>
>>If you can find a provider that'll terminate the T.38...
>>
>>>If it uses GSM or G.729 without T.38, there is no hope.
>>
>>Indeed.
>>
>>Basically, it might work and if it does, then great, but doesn't
>>expect it to and use something else - e.g. email. What I have done
>>for clients in the past is ported their FAX number to a FAX to Email
>>service, then connected their legacy FAX maching to their standard
>>BT line for outgoung faxes (and make sure they withold the number
>>so people don't try to fax back on it) That seems to work fine when
>>people have a small number of FAXes to send, but still need to recieve
>>them.
>>
>>Gordon
>
> Thanks Gordon and David. It's not a major issue as very few faxes are
> sent, but was just curious as to whether it would.
> --
> John
> Basically, it might work and if it does, then great, but doesn't
> expect it to and use something else - e.g. email. What I have done
> for clients in the past is ported their FAX number to a FAX to Email
> service, then connected their legacy FAX maching to their standard
> BT line for outgoung faxes (and make sure they withold the number
> so people don't try to fax back on it) That seems to work fine when
> people have a small number of FAXes to send, but still need to recieve
> them.
>
> Gordon
We have our fax machine through BT line (actually through talktalk as
they had reasonable rates and per second billing) and for receiving
faxes I just use the free voipfone fax2email service on an 0870 number.
It certainly helps eliminate the fax junk mail. and is there for the
die-hards that really must still send a fax.
Our fax machine doesn't have any paper in it because all we ended up
getting was "debt recovery" type faxes and other such pointless paper
wasting crap.
>
> It's not so much propogation (latency) as jitter and packet loss.
>
Propagation delay is important for some modem applications, because the
modem handshaking has very tight time constraints for some applications.
21CN is actually VoIP under the hood (so fax does work over VoIP), but
some modems can no longer be used. I think this particularly affects
ones in alarm systems.
> 21CN is actually VoIP under the hood (so fax does work over VoIP), but
> some modems can no longer be used.
Hasn't the voice part of 21CN rollout more or less stalled, with very
few exchange converted? What BT have been (and still are) rolling out
is 21CN WBC i.e. the broadband parts, and presumably the inter-exchange
links.
"David Woolley" <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote in message
news:jlfbpl$d3c$1@dont-email.me...
> Gordon Henderson wrote:
>
>>
>> It's not so much propogation (latency) as jitter and packet
>> loss.
>>
>
> Propagation delay is important for some modem applications,
> because the modem handshaking has very tight time constraints
> for some applications. 21CN is actually VoIP under the hood (so
> fax does work over VoIP), but some modems can no longer be
> used. I think this particularly affects ones in alarm systems.
21CN may be voip underneath but it is only a protocol and will be
working over dedicated circuits.
Voip for we mere mortals is through the Interweb will all its
delays, routes, and anything else you can think of, so if it does
work at all it may at best be unreliable and at worst produce
cr*p.
> 21CN may be voip underneath but it is only a protocol and will be
> working over dedicated circuits.
>
I don't believe they are dedicated to voice. To me it only really makes
sense if they share with the back haul circuits that support BT provided
wholesale IP services, as well.
The traffic will be prioritised, but that is also something that a
competent network manager and a VoIP friendly ISP would do.
> Voip for we mere mortals is through the Interweb will all its
> delays, routes, and anything else you can think of, so if it does
> work at all it may at best be unreliable and at worst produce
> cr*p.
>
>
>
On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 12:54:16 +0100, John
<focus594-remove-@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 11:43:54 +0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson
><gordon+usenet@drogon.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <jlbcd4$4ie$1@dont-email.me>,
>>David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
>>>John wrote:
>>>> All in one phone/fax machine. If you switch to voip and use it
>>>> through an ATA, will the fax machine still work?
>>>
>>>If the ATA uses the same codec as the PSTN (G.711 A-Law in the UK) and
>>>the propagation delay is low enough, it should work. (G.711 mu-law
>>>should also work, at least as well as faxing to the US).
>>
>>It's not so much propogation (latency) as jitter and packet loss.
>>
>>Although I've demonstrated it working, I'd never give anyone any
>>sort of guarantees whatsoever of it working for real.
>>
>>>If it uses T.38 encoding of fax and regenerates the fax signal, it
>>>should also work.
>>
>>If you can find a provider that'll terminate the T.38...
>>
>>>If it uses GSM or G.729 without T.38, there is no hope.
>>
>>Indeed.
>>
>>Basically, it might work and if it does, then great, but doesn't
>>expect it to and use something else - e.g. email. What I have done
>>for clients in the past is ported their FAX number to a FAX to Email
>>service, then connected their legacy FAX maching to their standard
>>BT line for outgoung faxes (and make sure they withold the number
>>so people don't try to fax back on it) That seems to work fine when
>>people have a small number of FAXes to send, but still need to recieve
>>them.
>>
>>Gordon
>
>Thanks Gordon and David. It's not a major issue as very few faxes are
>sent, but was just curious as to whether it would.
If you use Fax over VoIP where there is QoS on the access line (ie not
just over a normal Internet feed) then the loss rate can be very low.
But - that isnt going to be particularly cost effective unless you
need that link for other things, and plain old analog voice is
probably cheaper.....
--
Regards
Will a fax machine work on voip? 
Linear Mode
